I have a hard time getting outraged about this.

One sure way to prevent nude photos of you from appearing online, where just about everything interesting eventually ends up, is to not have any nude photos taken.

The history of human kind is one of appropriation of other's property for either monetary gain, or enjoyment.

I wouldn't knowing watch shows on a stolen TV, but may very well have watched TV's unwittingly, that were put together by Chinese orphans in a slave labor camp.

And thus have even more unsavory origins than many televisions that were *stolen*

Who can tell?

Isab, I agree. This is rather hard to get "outraged" over, especially for those who knowingly took nude pictures of themselves or knowingly allowed others to take their nude photos.

That being said, the person (or persons) who hacked the accounts do need to be prosecuted and thrown in jail. That I would have no problem with.

I'm outraged. It's a violation of their privacy. You may not get how normal it is to have a long distance relationship with a lover and what it's like to swap pics and phone calls. Most all of these celebrities do not get to carry their significant other wherever they go. You may not understand, and that's quite puritanistic of you if you don't.

People who can't handle their own affairs have only themselves to blame. You leave something out on a window sill and find that the alley cat stole it thinking that the plant in front of the window sill would deter the cat, then you have only yourself to blame. Honestly, I could'nt care less about ppl who cannot take care of themselves...especially celebs who can't take care of their nude pics for which they have not been paid(while the same celebs are pretty fine with their nude pics for which they have been paid). Hell, the damn reason they have the money is because of their similar pics for which they got paid in the first place, so they can just think of it as being nice to their customers and giving them some freebies for making them so much money from the same thing. Like a 1% bonus or something of that sort.

I say stupid celebs who know that having pics is a risk deserve no sympathy....but hey, if there were no pics, would those ppl be celebs in the first place? And if they did not know the risk about pics, then maybe I'll just agree with you on one thing...'all the money in the world cannot buy you brains'

to have a long distance relationship with a lover and what it's like to swap pics and phone calls. Most all of these celebrities do not get to carry their significant other wherever they go. You may not understand, and that's quite puritanistic of you if you don't.

Posted by: gooseegg at September 1, 2014 9:45 AM

I do understand. People do stupid stuff, without understanding the long term consequences.

I swap pics with my husband, but they aren't of each other's genitalia. I think after thirty years, we can remember what they look like...
This is how intelligent circumspect people communicate over a public medium.

And the people who are outraged over nude pictures, are generally the ones with the Puritan mind set.

Live in Europe or Asia for a while, and you may get over the whole rabid aversion to nudity.

Anyone in this day and age, who doesn't understand that anything they send out over the internet, not only becomes public property, but that those pixels are out there for eternity, is a complete fucking idiot.

I am sure those boys at the NSA have a complete set. :-)

https://twitter.com/AADaddario/status/506472886841135104

Alexandra Daddario
‏@AADaddario
The Internet is scary. Thank god all my personal photos are only of dogs and cats and food, and I'm only naked on tv.

Amy,

Did you also refuse to listen to the surreptitious recording of Donald Sterling on the same grounds? How about any of the racist recordings of Mel Gibson?

What about other info you use on your computer... your online banking pin, your paypal account... is it ok to take those? Transfer money from your account into mine? After all, the history of human kind is one of appropriation of other's property for either monetary gain, or enjoyment.

How are naked pics different from any other file?

These were taken apparently off of iCloud, so it's a bit much to say that they were just leaving naked pics lying around. It is a truism of the internet that nothing is secure but I also admit I hadn't really thought about people hacking into my photo library. (Unless they like sexy pictures of blooming cacti, they would be disappointed.)

I don't have naked pics of me anywhere either but I assume a lot of this is generational.

What about other info you use on your computer... your online banking pin, your paypal account... is it ok to take those? Transfer money from your account into mine? After all, the history of human kind is one of appropriation of other's property for either monetary gain, or enjoyment.

How are naked pics different from any other file?

Posted by: NicoleK at September 1, 2014 11:27

Stealing bank account info to use to steal money or other assets is theft.

If they use it to steal fifty bucks, it is petty theft. If they use it to steal 5000 dollars it is grand larceny.

All easily punished by laws that have been on the books for quite a while.

Hacking is also a crime.

This was never the issue.

The fact that these are crimes does not erase the need for people to secure their valuables, or carry insurance.

The ICloud is not some secure little lock box in the back of your closet. I wouldn't store my passwords, and SSN there either.

You don't live in Disneyland people. Be smart.

Putting naked pictures of yourself on iCloud is just a way to "I Stupid". If you do take pictures you don't want distributed then don't put them on a server that you don't control. Especially not iCloud. That said, the script-kiddies who broke into the accounts deserve any bad things that happen to them.

Two more stunning actresses approach the problem with equally workable solutions.

You know, these ladies are young. I haven't seen the whole list of 100, but I know that my teenagers have no idea how to manipulate their icloud accounts. None. You don't set them up, don't do anything for them to be there, and yet there they are. Even if you delete photos from your phone, they're there in the cloud. So I guess my point is for everyone who is saying how moronic and idiotic, that these intelligent people should know better, I see as someone who could have been clueless as to their existence, but knows now. I bet most of the US just went and tried to figure out how to get into their cloud accounts because of this story. I don't fault them for having nudes of themselves. They are young and gorgeous and may never look that great again, and that's their own private business. Curses on the asshats who did this. I hope you get what's coming to you.

> I'm outraged.

Naw. C'mon. Really? "Outraged?" Snorting at your desk?, snapping at passersby?

> You may not understand, and that's
> quite puritanistic of you if
> you don't.

I'm gonna need to read the page of arithmetic to see how we got to the part where people who'd disagree are puritanistic.

This is a lawless theft of personal material. It's inexcusable, and I sincerely hope the people who hacked these accounts are sent to prison. It's a fully unwarranted personal humiliation for these women, and the people who did it should be ashamed as well as prosecuted.

M'kay?


(more)

HOWEVER....

This kind of reminds me how Amy thinks every internet mp3 of a 1998 song from BRitney Spears is "theft" too, no less a crime than kidnapping or Medicare fraud.

I don't feel very bad about what happened to the record business, because those people have been taking advantage of the love children feel for music since the dawn of the industry. Their product has been re-priced.

Technology does that to people. It's done it to me more than once.

The GLOBAL fascination people feel for the Jennifer Lawrence' intimate beauty is something she's worked very hard to exploit for her private financial benefit. She's gone to the industrial Mecca for that kind of enterprise, Hollywood, where she's stoked that machinery as hard as anyone could.

And... She's a normal human woman, just younger and prettier than most. I get. that. See that Paglia article about Joan Rivers that Amy linked a few days ago... The comedian understands "the iron law of female beauty."

But that kind of law doesn't make Lawrence special. She's as pretty as your High School prom queen.... So what?

If any of you and I and Jennifer Lawrence were to have our Nakey™ pics stolen, OF COURSE we'd expect Lawrence to suffer the greater exposure. OF COURSE we would. She's already primed the pump.

But she didn't prime it for our benefit, and her grievance need not be regarded as more acute than yours or mine.

Sorry for the busted link... This is the Pump Primer, right here.

You can see how she might have encouraged stranger to take a greater interest in her nakedness than in yours or mine....

"You don't set them up, don't do anything for them to be there, and yet there they are"

Yes, you do have to set up an iCloud account. I don't have one that automatically uploads all my stuff.

But of course, I don't do naked selfies.

But as Crid pointed out, that isn't really the issue.

But I like the way, you have moved the goal posts there, when your first attempt was so reactionary.

Interesting point.

You want a really noisy scandal? Get some pics like this of male stars.

This is exactly why it's okay to steal money from someone's bank account if you can get to it online.

I mean, if they weren't filthy, greedy, money-grubbing whores who deserved to be robbed, why did they perform banking transactions with a computer?!

Everybody knows you can hack those things! So they deserve it for being stupid.

In all seriousness, though, has anyone else noticed that within 30 seconds of a hot female actress appearing on a late night talk show, the talk turns to their body parts and/or sex?

Haven't followed this, but friends were just talking about it. SO I ave the question, was it effectively 100 separate hacks or did one account have all these photos?
Hollywood is an odd place with computers and security. Most people don't worry about being targeted, but they do. Be it for candid picture or leaking scripts, or leaking a movie before it comes out.

From the article: Brandeis and Warren explained that a person has a right--a natural human right...

Idealistic poppycock. There is no such thing as a "natural human right." Your rights are defined by the law you are under. Nowhere else.

This was done by a 4chan user so it makes so much sense.

It reminds me when Jenna Jameson got her identity stolen and went on 4chan begging them to help her out. They told her tits or get the fuck out. She provided multiple tit pics and wasn't happy to do it despite being a pr0n star.

5 minutes later they tracked down the thief, including his address.

You don't mess with 4chan.

One girl has a curling iron up her coochi. Another one a giant load on her back, spreadeagled. Including video that she shared with a third party.

Lawrence is just tasteful titty pics, some with a bra on.

I haven't seen them. Going by the descriptions on message boards.

Consensus by those that have seen them? These girls look just like regular pretty girls once you take the glam and glitz away.

Having a hard time feeling sorry for them. It's like using your credit card on bad sites and complaining it was stolen. Cloud is super easy to hack into.

Here's a survey + reflections from Kash.

…Noteworthy that Icloud is not yet actually implicated.

> You don't mess with 4chan.

Props to Ppen for seeing this as it is! - - - -

These photos were not "leaked by 4chan." Okay? They Were/not.

They were distributed on 4chan, but that's not the same thing. 4 Chan is a collection of lonely teenage boners, indulging the lesser enthusiasms of their masculine nature.

4chan is essentially amoral. It doesn't "leak" things... It only squirts them.

And to be clear, these materials weren't "leaked" at all. They were private property.

They were penetrated and seized. STOLEN. They weren't sitting wrapped in rubber, pushing for a chance to burst into freedom.

Could the youngest person in the forum please tell me if I need to care who "Mary Elizabeth Winstead" is?

In America, we don't tolerate celebrities with three names. Frances (F.) Coppola eventually came to his senses.

Uh, the reactionary phase is still there. I'm still outraged that the pics were stolen and leaked. I'm still defending the girls' use of their accounts for nudie pics however they see fit. It's puritanistic to think that they shouldn't ever take a nude selfie. It may be a mortifyingly stupid thing today after this date in history, when the entire world has witnessed what can happen, but I understand the notion of WHY they did it. In this day and age, sorry, but swapping pics with your SO is like saying goodnight sweetheart. And look - my youngest has an iphone. She has never seen her icloud account. She set it up when she set the phone up. It's not connected to anyone else's email except one a teenager uses for email, and they don't ever email. ever. So, no, it's not like I expect anyone in that age bracket to actually grasp the significance of a cloud account. Until today. It's been eye opening for everyone. Pun intended.

These celebrities are lucky 4chan is only interested in titty and ass pics.

I remember one guy taunted them and he got his social security number, birth certificate, address and credit card info put up online. I think they also hacked into his sexing emails. He was security contractor working for the government.

I like Crids description of 4chan. They are pretty amoral.

Only TheAmazingAtheist was able to escape their wrath. He had a private banana sex video that they got a hold of and they began mercilessly going after him. His response "eh I fucked a banana. I'm not ashamed". They kept going after him in every way possible for days and finally conceded that he did not care. He won their respect. Pretty much the only person that has done so.

I find all sides of this debate amusing.

Yes, the pics were apparently stolen and that is wrong, but prison would be an overreaction of the same kind that killed Aaron Swartz.

Poetic justice would be something like this: some counter-prankster hacks the leaker's computer and posts anything personal they find all over the web, including his address and maybe card numbers.

Of course one hopes that all the victims know better than to trigger the Streisand Effect by suing.

The bottom line is that putting those pics on an insecure computer was stupid. This "crime" is a lot less like rape than like driving off in a car whose owner left it idling with the keys inside. I just hope it won't take more than a few equally harmless pranks to teach people, both famous and not, to lock up their private data.

> prison would be an overreaction
> of the same kind that killed
> Aaron Swartz.

A stunningly inept appraisal.

" They weren't sitting wrapped in rubber, pushing for a chance to burst into freedom."

Kinky!

. And look - my youngest has an iphone. She has never seen her icloud account. She set it up when she set the phone up. It's not connected to anyone else's email except one a teenager uses for email, and they don't ever email. ever. So, no, it's not like I expect anyone in that age bracket to actually grasp the significance of a cloud account. Until today. It's been eye opening for everyone. Pun intended.

Posted by: gooseegg at September 1, 2014 4:35 PM

Never mind the ICloud. Not knowing how it works is the least of your worries.

I really hope your youngest daughter is over 18. Because if she isn't, and she has sent a naked selfie to anyone, she is trafficking in kindle porn.

She might not be arrested, because there is an incredible double standard out there. But if she has a boyfriend, he easily could be arrested, and prosecuted.

If you are the one, who owns the phone account, you could be on the hook too.

So no matter how common you think it is for young people to send naked pics, is still illegal, and carries some pretty *stiff * penalties

Yes, the legal system really is that crazy now...

> Kinky!

It's just that so many people —people working in media, and street folk on twitter— are using the word "leaked" to describe this material that I don't think they understand what they're sharing of themselves when they use that word.

I get it, I get it, I get it... She's young and pretty and fertile (Jennifer Lawrence and Mary Jane whomever and all the rest). So, like, golly... Who wouldn't want to see pictures of her bent over and shaking or whatever, right?

People who use the word "leak" seem to think their personal fascinations imbue these photographs with some righteous bid for freedom, as if the computer files had personalities... As if the pictures were cotton-picking slaves from Mississippi on the underground railroad, trying to make it to Chicago before the winter storms began in earnest.

Well, NO. Those files were private property. The fact that so many people are glad to have seen them yesterday doesn't mean they were supposed be publicly available. They didn't drip out of a vault: The lock was blown open with dynamite, and then they were stolen.





This reminds me of this discussion. Because she was individually fascinated, Tressider couldn't understand why a famous person should have a right to privacy.

Could the youngest person in the forum please tell me if I need to care who "Mary Elizabeth Winstead" is?

Posted by: Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at September 1, 2014 4:26 PM

Sure (though I think the distinction might be luj's). I have no idea who she is, but I appreciate the point she made about the photos of her and her husband that were stolen and posted:

"To those of you looking at photos I took with my husband years ago in the privacy of our home, hope you feel great about yourselves. Knowing those photos were deleted long ago, I can only imagine the creepy effort that went into this. Feeling for everyone who got hacked." Source here .

She thought she had deleted the photographs. Yet they were there nonetheless for the taking.

She put people on notice that the stuff they thought they deleted might still be available in a theft-friendly location.

I think these past few years of internet-fueled scandals might have the benefit of reminding folks that we are at one another's mercy. I hope we cultivate decency by saying "I'm not clicking on this" or feigning ignorance when the discretion at issue is not pertinent to the matter (job interview, date, etc.) at hand.

> I hope we cultivate decency by saying
> "I'm not clicking on this" or feigning
> ignorance when the discretion at issue
> is not pertinent to the matter (job
> interview, date, etc.) at hand.

That's an admirable aspiration for the self, and something to look for when selecting intimates and friendships.

But I also hope they prosecute the weasels who did this…

…And that public comes to understand that our government is no less perverse and intrusive.

Let this be an object lesson: if you're not encrypting your data locally with strong encryption and sufficiently strong passphrase before uploading it to an untrusted location, you get what you deserve.

There's a reason why I am required by my employer to securely wipe storage media before they are sent to surplus, recycling or even a warranty replacement: it is to keep our sensitive data (if we have any) and our licensed programs and operating systems away from unauthorized access.

And yes, I consider third party vendors cloud storage systems to be untrusted, for the simple reason that I can not vet the security of their system. And if you read the terms and conditions of the use of the service, you'll see them disclaim any liability for data breaches.

Well even "liberal" social sites sites like Reddit are posting the damn things (havent looked and won't). People so agaisnt government spying except spying when private is ok?

Most comments are "feel bad for the celebrity but feel even worse for my right hand"

Women are spinning it is helping their self esteem because now they can see that these celebs are just like they are body flaws and all.

Wow. Fucking sick.

Thanks for your concern, Isab, but though I understand the prevalence of swapping pics, my kids know better than to do that. They have been forewarned to the point of tuning out, but thanks for assuming my "understanding" of the situation means I have green-lighted my kids to do the same.

Most comments are "feel bad for the celebrity but feel even worse for my right hand"

Consider the source...

I saw some of the Jennifer Lawrence pictures in my twitter feed. I was like "eh, looks like her, but it must be a photoshop".

If I have to fantasize, I'd much rather think of snuggling up with Ms. Jennifer and making out. So, no, not looking for that data dump.

While I find the breach of privacy unethical, many of these women identify as feminists.

And when it comes to guys problems many feminists say if you dont want to suffer the consequences dont do it

So while I dont like the fact that these women had their privacy stolen, I do enjoy the fact they they are getting pissed at having their own argument thrown back at them

One girl has a curling iron up her coochi.

Which explains why curling irons now come with a warning label, "For external use only." I always wondered what sick individual gave themselves third degree burns using a curling iron internally.

"That's an admirable aspiration for the self, and something to look for when selecting intimates and friendships.

But I also hope they prosecute the weasels who did this…

…And that public comes to understand that our government is no less perverse and intrusive."

Posted by: Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at September 1, 2014 11:52 PM

In uncanny timing, today my photos have shown up on my partner's phone, and my phone requires me to use my partner's password to access the online app store. Date night will likely be spent at Apple.

As for prosecution - I'm all for it. I'm pinning my hopes on human decency and a community of hackers who bounty hunt one another. My impression is that criminals and curios kids with time to explore/ learn the ways of the internet outpace the development and budgets of most law enforcement departments. And then, as you've pointed out, government agencies are not immune to human fallibility.

"Women are spinning it is helping their self esteem because now they can see that these celebs are just like they are body flaws and all.

Wow. Fucking sick."
Posted by: Ppen at September 2, 2014 6:18 AM

Agreed. And craven bullsh!t, given the number of celebs who've voluntarily gone public makeup- and photoshop-free for that very reason.

Brett Favre could not be reached for comment.

I don't excuse the hackers, but I do agree with those who have pointed out that storing anything in the cloud is like leaving your car running with the keys in. You want to keep your pictures private, get a $5 memory stick and keep it in a desk drawer, or a locked file cabinet, when not in use.

Also, I'd be VERY surprised if Lawrence and the others suffer any professional damage from this. If anything, I expect it will increase public interest in them and thereby help their careers.

...Tech problems solved by the Apple staff person with a riveting British accent and the patience to explain a coincidence.

I find it interesting there are two Ben's on here.

I also agree with Michelle. It is a bigger part of this story that even if you delete your photos or files off of these services they often keep a copy for themselves. Facebook, Google, and others have made claims that anything used with their services is their property. So if you put your wedding photos up on Facebook don't be surprised they were sold to a stock photo company and ended up in some advertisement.

"This 'crime' is a lot less like rape than like driving off in a car whose owner left it idling with the keys inside. I just hope it won't take more than a few equally harmless pranks to teach people, both famous and not, to lock up their private data."

Posted by: jdgalt

Legally that's still grand theft even if you bring the car back to where you found it - but this "prank" was like taking the car to a chop shop or reenacting the ending of "Thelma and Louise" with it. Those women will never get their pictures off the internet. It's far from harmless.

Amy, I think you'll enjoy this: Playboy's take on the photo hacking scandal.

Reason has a pretty good article on this.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/09/04/how-unauthorized-naked-pics-of-jennifer

Pretty much, it's a tempest in a teacup. Considering the indifference people have in posting embarrassing private or intimate information, especially where, say, conservatives are concerned, for Hollywood to suddenly act concerned about this is horse manure.

Hollywood and the press are acting outraged over this "Brazen assault on women", but covered up, and continues to obscure, actual outrageous evil behavior in the name of political correctness regarding some 1400 teen age girls in Rotherham, UK, because of the religion and national origin of the perps. Had they been white Catholic priests, well, then it would be important to cover every breathless moment of a 24/7 news cycle.

I worry about security risks that I can't avoid - like my health information being in the hands of the government, or my location data, or banking history, or my telecommunications being accessed without my consent and being told "it's for your own good". Not that anyone wants to see naked pictures of me, except for a cheap laugh, but I know better than to take them and have them on a server in an environment where our government, who has an awful record of security, AND an awful record of people helping themselves to our data to suit their personal or political games, and *those* things are not punished with the wrath it deserves.

So, when the press, the legislature and the courts give the legal attention and respectful privacy *my* information, as well as their political enemies, deserves, I'll give a rats ass about some hollywood princess's self-taken (and shared) raunchy pictures.