Two Male Strippers Would Have Done A Better Job Running The CDC
Male strippers Axl Goode and Taylor Cole decided to self-quarantine (though it was not required by the CDC) after they flew seated several feet from Amber Joy Vinson, the nurse who was diagnosed with Ebola, but allowed by the CDC to fly.
Here's the story about them in the NY Daily News.
Mary Katherine Ham writes at Hot Air:
The two dancers are self-quarantining for the three-week incubation period of the deadly disease, citing a desire to take a "proactive approach to protecting people," and are surprised the CDC didn't require it. Here's hoping they just get three weeks off work and 15 minutes of fame, and not Ebola.The experience of these men speaks to the CDC's larger problems in gaining trust with the American people to fight an Ebola outbreak. The agency, whose approval numbers are falling precipitously, has routinely made assurances that were later proven untrue, failed to be as proactive as Axl and Taylor, and made moves so obviously reckless that humble, normal Americans look at the agency's conduct and quite rationally conclude it's not to be trusted.
This is not panic or the result of some political campaign to undermine the CDC. This is self-inflicted. For instance, the CDC told Vinson, who has been exposed to Ebola and had a slight fever, that she could jump on a plane to the Midwest.
It also failed to anticipate the need to monitor a nurse who may have handled an Ebola patient's samples. That nurse is now isolated in her cabin on a cruise ship, which are of course infamous hotbeds for contagious disease outbreaks.
Vinson, for her part, asked the CDC if she should fly and made a mistake in trusting their advice. Axl and Taylor aren't making the same mistake, and many Americans will be inclined to be wary as well. Again, that reaction is a direct result of the CDC's actions in handling Ebola.
Thanks to the two with more brains than the officials. It seems like this is a darn good time to use an abundance of caution.
holly at October 19, 2014 6:18 AM
Our bureaucracies offer continuous examples of shocking incompetence. Not surprising: most of the jobs are sinecures; and such large organizations tend to evolve towards no action or over-reaction.
In an actual crises, we usually have to re-staff the bureaus that can do anything to help. Our permanent bureaus, like FEMA and the Surgeon General's minions, tend to be corrupted drones.
doombuggy at October 19, 2014 6:57 AM
I can just picture the conversation now.
So please describe your job?
" Well I dance around under hot lights get till the sweat is dripping off of me, then hundreds of random people touch my skin as they shove $ into my crotch."
So no chance of body fluid exchange?
"That costs extra."
Cleared.
Joe J at October 19, 2014 8:37 AM
I think you guys are wrong about this.
That happens with a lot of topics.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 19, 2014 1:26 PM
Smart. By publicizing their completely needless self-quarantine, they're sure to get some publicity for their trashy novels, and possibly a few televised appearances for their "heroism."
Have you jumped on the hysteria bandwagon, too, Amy? Should I expect to run into you on your way to tell the king that the sky is falling?
Patrick at October 19, 2014 1:29 PM
I think you guys are wrong about this.
That happens with a lot of topics.
Posted by: Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 19, 2014 1:26 PM
That's probably 'cause we are from the Bureau of Internet Posters.
doombuggy at October 19, 2014 2:06 PM
I like hysteria. It's fun.
Republican Senator says that which hasn't happened and that we have no evidence of happening and which would be very difficult to make happen, might happen.
ISIS could attack us with Ebola!
By rubbing us with infected people or something. Who cares. Makes a scary headline!
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at October 19, 2014 4:02 PM
Wait, don't run away, there's more!
Former Sen. Scott Brown (R-MA) speculated during an interview Friday that America would be unconcerned about the Ebola outbreak if Mitt Romney had been elected President.
Jee-zus where do we find these guys?!
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at October 19, 2014 4:05 PM
More Americans have been married to Kim Kardashian than have died from Ebola.
Just think about that!
Statistically you have a greater chance of being married to Kim Kardashian than you have of contracting Ebola.
Patrick at October 19, 2014 4:51 PM
Patrick: Now you've really scared me...
markm at October 19, 2014 6:17 PM
> That's probably 'cause we are from
> the Bureau of Internet Posters.
Aha! I knew it! That explains everything.
> I like hysteria. It's fun.
I hear you, man. Dude. DudeManBro. Who doesn't?
Last year I went back and read the first seven years of comments I'd made on blogs. My day-to-day pride in principled thinking, the consistent-if-evolving kind, didn't prove to be entirely well-earned... Some fads are irresistible.
But this on this one it's going pretty well! If you'd asked at Christmas what did we know about Ebola, I'd have said:
And whaddya know, that's how it still works today!
Know who rillyrilly understands infectious disease? Anthony Fauci. Yes, that Anthony Fauci.
Bitchmode media, and other silly people, peed themselves because Clipboard Guy.
Well, Fauci says chillax, and he's not the kind of guy who'd make jokes about it any too casually.
[…]
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 19, 2014 8:17 PM
Listen, it's correct to mock the bureaucrats and technocrats who've been so clumsy and mumbling in during precisely the hours of a routine crisis for which they're so very well paid to be steady and clear.
And Obama deserves the distress over this for ten thousand more consequential failures.
But even if this outbreak kills dozens in America instead of just the one, it doesn't deserve the kind of terror it's summoned.
In a few weeks, influenza will begin killing thousands of Americans. That is going to happen.
Obama will skate (or play golf) for that, too.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 19, 2014 8:17 PM
Let me put it this way:
Those who are faulting the CDC for not discouraging panic --and they are righteous-- are not being sarcastic. They're not enjoying this, OK?
The fear of this is indulgent. I've read precisely one piece crediting those who gave comfort to the afflicted or to the possibly-afflicted.
There's something about human nature here that's eagerly aroused by the idea that today (or tomorrow) we've finally found a crisis for which we have to make uncrossable distance from others. (In the Blues Brothers: The use of unnecessary violence has been authorized...!)
People seem much more eager to go nasty over this than to go kind.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 19, 2014 8:54 PM
after they flew seated several feet from Amber Joy Vinson
That's why quarantine wasn't required. Because they were in virtually no danger of infection. Nice publicity for them though.
Ltw at October 20, 2014 12:56 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2014/10/19/two_male_stripp.html#comment-5287937">comment from LtwSince she wasn't treated as if she had the virus there were likely no precautions taken.
Amy Alkon at October 20, 2014 5:28 AM
Crid: Last year I went back and read the first seven years of comments I'd made on blogs.
That must have put you out like a light.
I just love the way that Obama is blamed for this. Like anyone here has even heard of Ebola before the first Ebola patient arrived in the U.S.
If you still want to fault Obama for his supposedly slow-to-non-existent response to Ebola, can we pretty please talk about Ronald Reagan and how many AIDS patients died before he even said the word, much less tried to do anything about it?
Why not? Reagan first used the word on September 17, 1985, in response to a question at a press conference. (There were 41 cases of AIDS in the U.S. in 1981.) And both AIDS and Ebola are contagious diseases which have their highest concentrations in Africa. They're both spread via body fluids.
Patrick at October 20, 2014 6:15 AM
Outbreaks of high-mortality viral diseases like Ebola are always weird. When you think about it, from an evolutionary standpoint, such a virus has to be self-limiting; if the virus succeeds in killing off its host population, then it will die out. That's one reason that some of the herpes virus strains are almost universal among humans -- they are very seldom fatal.
My wife is in the medical field, and we were chatting about this last week. It seems that the recent outbreak has been more contagious than previously observed with Ebola. Doctors Without Borders is a well-respected group among medical people, both for the quality of care they provide in the world's foresaken areas, and for the diligence of their protocols in dealing with weird diseases. Nine of their doctors in West Africa have died of Ebola. Think about that. The Doctors Without Borders people are not stupid. Something else is happening. Either the transmission mechanism of Ebola is not properly understood, or this is a new, more contagious strain. Nobody seems to know yet. Yes, obviously there are people panicking, but given the circumstances, an abundance of caution looks prudent right now.
Cousin Dave at October 20, 2014 7:40 AM
> Either the transmission mechanism
> of Ebola is not properly understood,
> or this is a new, more contagious
> strain. Nobody seems to know yet.
No-- Guys, it's an outbreak. There's no reason to think transmission vectors aren't well-understood; no reason to think this is a "new, more contagious strain," and no reason to believe that "Nobody seems to know yet."
The human heart needs melodrama.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 20, 2014 11:30 AM
> Yes, obviously there are people
> panicking, but
Dood.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 20, 2014 11:36 AM
"It's an outbreak"
Maybe, but why? Why now, and not, say, five years ago? Virusus do mutate. Of course, that's not all there is to it. But why do high-mortality viruses like Marburg or Lassa or hantavirus occasionally pop up, kill nearly all of a small percentage of people who become infected, and then disappear for a while? I personally don't find "It just happens" to be a very satisfactory explanation.
Look, I understand the reaction against the panic reaction... our media labels every damn thing a "pandemic" these days (evidently, the word "epidemic" lost its shock value from over-use), and alarm fatigue set in a long time ago. Remember those millions of people who died from bird flu? Yeah, me neither. Nonetheless, something about Ebola has changed. It may not be significant. But until we know more, it bears keeping an eye on.
Cousin Dave at October 20, 2014 12:11 PM
> Maybe, but why? Why now, and
> not, say, five years ago?
BECAUSE IT'S A GODDAMN OUTBREAK!!!
!!
(I'm not really pissed, it's just fun to TYPE THAT WAY!!)
Shit fuck, Seekers...
Two years ago Thursday, you had a mild headache while driving home from work. But today, you don't have a headache.
Well, there are good reasons to worry about infectious disease. It's an excellent thing to take seriously, whether you're a postgrad molecular biologist or a thoughtful middle-school dropout. It will always, always be with us, and the oft-discussed overuse of antibiotics will be threatening for the rest of our lives, our children's lives, and their children's lives.If you take it seriously, you'll recognize the bolt of lightning which attended YOUR BIRTH… You'll appreciate the thunderclap of God-Blessed Good Luck, statistical and otherwise, which welcomed you into the shimmering heartland of Postwar American Comity. You (we) are at the concentric center of an ancient swirl of genius, sacrifice, discipline and courage, civilizing forces which made health and clarity and safety available to people who, judged individually, didn't do much to deserve it.
Not kidding. M'kay? Poetical prozey fun-fun! I mean every word. It's great to be American in these decades.
That doesn't mean everything goes great all the time. And it doesn't mean that when things go wrong, the people who're paid to hold nature at bay have failed… Even when they have.
Got that? It's Mother nature's planet, always. Mother nature wins. You should be grateful that this elemental human truth is held out of sight so often.
Aha. Typing these words, I recall that you & I have been here before; You think it's possible to be "born healthy." Constrained by that presumption, you're unable to grasp three important patterns:
Know who I kinda admire? Drew Pinsky. Maybe he likes being on TV too much, but he's said some rillyneet things over the years, and I find his naivete about America's simplistic beliefs about his specialties to be endearing. I enjoyed listening to his Loveline show several years ago. In more recent times, he's had a couple of demonstrative experiences.
Circa 2009, he suffered a flurry of bad press when a junkie died in his upscale addiction clinic. A few years later, a country music star he'd once treated for addiction committed suicide years after leaving his care. In both cases, because he makes a good living as a media doctor, the public criticism came fast and furious. (And dissipated quickly.) In both cases, he could only reply with a simple fact, offered at the tone usually heard in descriptions of tomorrow's certain sunrise. Paraphrase: 'Yeah... Addiction can kill you. It's serious and it's terrible.' He let the obvious, next part fill the air silently: That's why you pay the best doctors you can find as much as you can afford to treat it.
More recently Pinsky's young adult daughter publicly announced that she'd suffered from bulimia. Well, Pinsky's been talking about bulimia with strangers for years, so again the press came at him fiercely: If you know so much, why couldn't you see this in your own home? (??!!??) He could only reply with blunt honesty: The first compelling truth about bulimia is that the behavior is hidden from others. He understood it was a horrible thing long before it happened to someone he adored.
That's what I want people to understand about Ebola. It really sucks. Life in Africa really sucks, which is why it kills people there and not —excepting ONE DEATH ON OUR SOIL— in the United States.
The nearly erotic thrill people take in fears of "mutation" is just pathetic. Such people are not scientists. There's an unbounded universe of hazards from mutation... Including ones churning within your own body's cellular processes as you read these words. (There's also a smaller constellation of mutations which might do some good.)
To worry about Ebola changing so disastrously isn't much different than fretting that your nephew's pet hamster will deliver a mutant brood of enormous giants that'll bust out of their Habitrail and chew up our darling Tayler Swift in six crispy, mildly-salted bites.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 20, 2014 2:37 PM
Admit it. If Taylor Swift were eaten by enormous hamsters, that would really suck!
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 20, 2014 2:49 PM
This reminds me of the late 1980's hysteria about AIDS.
Even worse with AIDS actually because there were no visible indicators of infection.
Turned out the transmission rate was much lower than they thought, and the risk groups were not *everyone* who had sex.
I read a study that said most health care professionals have Hepatitis.
Also Cousin Dave is spot on about the universality of Herpes.
Almost everyone has one form or another because it spreads as easily as a rhinovirus. But there is an incredible amount of hysteria about that too.
Isab at October 20, 2014 2:53 PM
Enormous GIANT hamsters, I'm talkin'.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 20, 2014 2:54 PM
"I read a study that said most health care professionals have Hepatitis."
No.
Lizzie at October 20, 2014 5:45 PM
Aw c'mon...
I bet most of them have at least been 'exposed'.
I bet at least as many have been exposed to the Hep as have been 'exposed' to E-damn-bola, male-stripper-airline-passenger-style... If not the somewhat more daring Clipboard-Guy method.
Lizzie, in a time of deep national terror like this, it's important to play along with addled masses, to get behind their twitchy energies in a totally supportive way, and have a little fun. So we need you to get with the program.
I bet at least as many health care professionals have observed Enormous-Giant hamsters stalking our nation's evanescent pop singers as have been been Clipboard Guy-style exposed to Ebola in strip clubs near airports, without regard to the CDC protocols.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 20, 2014 6:42 PM
Advanced Genetechnical Science Analysis Studies vis-à-vis Striper Airline encounters with an exposed clipboard.
Keep your eye open for the clever pun near the end of the piece.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 20, 2014 8:29 PM
Okay, that was mean... There is no pun. That I know of.
Also, Isab right about the Hiv... It was never going to go rampaging through the heterosexual population, and anyone paying attention would have figured that out before Reagan's second term had ended.
Paglia is nonetheless corrected that the crisis paradoxically assisted a feminism-addled female cohort to regain control of their erotic lives.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 20, 2014 8:32 PM
Correct, not corrected. I never corrected that woman in my life.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 20, 2014 9:30 PM
"Statistically you have a greater chance of being married to Kim Kardashian than you have of contracting Ebola."
Though this is funny, you have no idea whatsoever of statistics, as is shown by your attempt at "two wrongs" in the subsequent post.
Yes, fallacies and statistics are both logical disciplines. You have used "two wrongs" several times to justify inaction or excuse actions by the current Administration.
If a meteorite kills a black man in the continental USA, it is two to ten times as likely to have killed a criminal than if it had killed another member of the general population, depending on the demographic chosen and the category of crime considered. Read the Bureau of Justice Statistics pages carefully. It's also more likely to have terminated someone with sickle-cell anemia or high blood pressure. Not so funny, now, huh? Yet, all true. The devil's in the details, and what to do about them.
Radwaste at October 20, 2014 9:50 PM
Jeez Crid, think of your blood pressure...
Since she wasn't treated as if she had the virus there were likely no precautions taken.
Well, that's true Amy, and I don't think she should have been allowed to fly either. But I still think these guys are showboating and have nothing to worry about from their "exposure". There's nothing like a good excuse for three weeks off and a shirtless photo in the NY Times though.
Ltw at October 21, 2014 3:40 AM
I still want to know what Obama is doing to protect us from being married to Kim Kardashian. Three Americans have been married to Kim Kardashian. Three. That's more Americans than have died from the Ebola epidemic.
A friend of mine tried to tell me that while this is true, the Ebola epidemic isn't done doing damage.
"Oh, but you think Kim Kardashian is?" I retorted.
I demand that the President do something to protect us from being married to Kim Kardashian! Statistically, we have a greater chance of being married to her than dying from Ebola! Why isn't the President doing anything to protect us from this real danger?
Patrick at October 21, 2014 4:19 AM
Crid: Also, Isab right about the Hiv... It was never going to go rampaging through the heterosexual population...
It did in Africa. I think the "Gay Plague" prefers to go rampaging through the promiscuous populations rather than concerning itself with the sexual orientation of its potential victims.
Patrick at October 21, 2014 4:23 AM
It did in Africa.
This is true Patrick. Crid is for not the first time right for the wrong reason. I doubt I have to educate you about different strains and practices and their effect on infection rates. Heterosexuals in Western countries had very little to fear - transmission was and is unlikely. Promiscuous gay Westerners, more so. A different, more easily transmitted strain in Africa and parts of Asia, plus a tradition of using anal sex as a method of birth control massively increased the risk, caused spiraling rates of infection amongst heterosexuals and homosexuals alike.
The HIV strain most common in Western countries is much less likely to be transmitted through heterosexual, vaginal sex. That, coupled with the general tendency of Western homosexuals to be more promiscuous despite being at much more risk, is what led to its characterization as "the gay plague". The sexual orientation of the victims had nothing to do with it. High risk practices did. "Heterosexuals caught it in Africa" is totally ignoring the facts and a completely different infection profile.
Ltw at October 21, 2014 6:48 AM
Cousin Dave,
Ebola is fairly well understood. The reason it doesn't just die off in Africa is animal carriers. Bats are one of the most well known carriers. Many species can contract the disease and not be harmed by it. Eating tainted meat is a common way humans in Africa first contract the disease starting an outbreak.
Once an outbreak has started it is still common to quarantine the area. After 1-2 months the disease will have run it's course and it should be safe to interact with the survivors. Note, ebola has a survival rate of 10-50%, mainly depending on treatment. So by the time the quarantine is lifted usually ~90% of the people in the infected area are dead.
The biggest issue with ebola in the US is if it gets into the animal population. We have better controls on our food supplies. But a sick or cornered animal could attack a human leading to an outbreak of the disease. This is one reason why there is so much focus on ebola waste disposal. It needs to be kept not just away from people but also from animals.
Ben at October 21, 2014 7:14 AM
Ben,
So completely unexposed animals in the US are going to form reservoirs of infection? They're going to die just as fast as humans. I can't see squirrels being an unharmed animal carrier.
Ltw at October 21, 2014 7:52 AM
Ben: The reason it doesn't just die off in Africa is animal carriers. Bats are one of the most well known carriers.
Someone should warn Ozzy Osbourne.
Patrick at October 21, 2014 8:47 AM
I didn't know about different strains among HIV, Ltw. But before we excuse Reagan for ignoring AIDS -- taking nearly five years into his presidency before he even mentioned the disease by name -- I have to ask: could we have known back then that the HIV would traipse through the homosexual community while pretty much ignoring the heterosexual community (apart from IV drug users and patients who get blood transfusions). Yes, that's what it ended up doing...but were we aware that that's what it was going to do at the time?
Patrick at October 21, 2014 8:59 AM
> I still want to know what Obama
> is doing to protect us from being
> married to Kim Kardashian.
Raddy is mistaken in two ways: The Kardashian thing neither amusing nor expository, and pestering Patrick about matters of reasoning is time down the gutter. The recurrence of the joke exposes the fourth-grader's thinking at work: My snotty little sarcasm annoyed a grown-up; I therefore pray that it contains a daring and thoughtful principle which I may one day leverage into a complete adult presence. For although I'm last-picked at volleyball and roundly mocked during Show-&-Tell, I'll be in the fifth grade someday... Perhaps by then I'll have learned to compose sturdy arguments on shared principle instead of dripping boogers.
> It did in Africa.
And do you know why? Africa is very much our topic. Yours is the typical infantilism of the left: If we're not all exactly the same, you want the tall and strong ones cut down to size such that you needn't feel so bad about your own lameness. You want American women to live like Africans.
> think of your blood pressure...
Jeez, Aussie, think of your genitalia. We in United States aren't amused by your fascination with us as you think.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 21, 2014 10:37 AM
More AIDS in Acrifa.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 21, 2014 10:38 AM
could we have known back then that the HIV would traipse through the homosexual community while pretty much ignoring the heterosexual community (apart from IV drug users and patients who get blood transfusions)
No, probably not Patrick. Lots has been learned since then. But there were plenty of warnings about what constituted high risk behaviour.
Since when was recognition by the Emperor with No Clothes (oops, President) required before people pay attention? No one knew the chance of infection with HIV would be so much higher for gays than straights, no. But it was pretty obvious that promiscuous sex put you at risk, and that was largely ignored by the gay community. Who gives a damn what Reagan did or didn't say, unless you subscribe to the theory that a public health problem doesn't exist until a President declares war on it (War on Poverty, War on Drugs, etc).
I'm now going to look like I'm contradicting my previous comments. Amber Vinson took a flight because the CDC told her it was ok. She was worried enough about it to contact them and check! But she submitted to their authority despite her concerns. Although I still don't think that the two guys in the story have any infection risk, at least they're making their own decision. I thought this was what Americans did - make their own call, be independent and self reliant. Not wait for the President to speak to the masses. Or worse still, take the word of a faceless bureaucrat. Seriously, is this what you're down to - the feds said it's ok so I'm blameless? Axl Goode and Taylor Cole may be over-reacting in my opinion, but at least they're thinking for themselves. Not waiting for the Worrier in Chief to give them their instructions.
Ltw at October 21, 2014 12:57 PM
We in United States aren't amused by your fascination with us as you think.
I wouldn't poke the donkey so much if I didn't always get a loud bray in response!
Ltw at October 21, 2014 1:00 PM
Unsurprisingly, Ebola virus and the whole class of filoviruses which includes the Marburg virus are characterized as potential bioweapons making the list of the CDC's Category-A Bioterrorism Agents.
Ebola is described as being "relatively stable in aerosols" and can remain present on surfaces for extended periods of time. Tests were performed on monkeys to show that aerosolized Ebola, especially under low temperature and humid conditions, can result in increased body temperatures (a fever) beginning 4-5 days following initial exposure. This shocking report shows that infectious disease experts have already pre-tested Ebola as a bioweapon – and here is the key part of the report – "as a foundation for testing vaccines and therapeutics."
The tests were conducted in 2012 by investigators at the US Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, Fort Detrick, Maryland [Viruses Oct 15, 2012] the very same bioweapons center where an engineered anthrax bacterium was genetically traced back to in the crisis following the 9-11 terrorist attacks. A similar test was performed by scientists at the same military bioweapons center in 1995. [International Journal Experimental Pathology Aug 1995] Bill Sardi
Bill Sardi in a recent newsletter also says: Don't let the fear of the Ebola virus cause you to panic. It is a nearly harmless virus as long as you are well nourished. If concerned or you develop a fever make sure you supplement your diet with vitamin C and selenium and secondarily with resveratrol and vitamin D. Avoid sugar, tobacco and excess alcohol if you become ill and think it could be Ebola. I believe the unfolding Ebola crisis is manufactured and will be global and only get worse.
bmused at October 21, 2014 1:42 PM
Of course you would, of course you would.
Jesus Christ, you're logging onto an American blog to post snarking comments about the CDC... The health agency for a nation (not your own) at least eighty-five hundred miles from your front door. How is it possible this could be of such interest to you?... Unless, we could suppose, the national media of your country find it cheaper, and more entertaining, to buy news feeds from our broadcasters than to compose worthwhile reports regarding your own public servants?
Admit it, Sunshine... You're in love!
Might as well face it.Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 21, 2014 1:52 PM
Wow... That's actually the third time I've posted that.
THIS YEAR.
So apparently this happens a lot, because United States.
Knowutimean, Jellybean?
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 21, 2014 1:58 PM
Christ, LOOK AT THIS STUFF:
Jesus... Dood... You've got a rilly bad case of it. You're drunk on American idioms.
You are stoned to the gills on the foolishness of bongsucking freshman in a dorm at the University of Minnesota. A month ago you were flipping burgers in your hometown, fishing out at the pond with your high school buddies, and watching HBO on weekends in the basement... But now you're at school, and you've figured out that winter's coming, but you're no closer to getting a single ounce of poontang that you were back in high school.
On the way to class, you saw a smart-looking senior with his hand on a blond's ass, so now you're thinking there might be something to that whole "brains" thing after all. How to get some? Pretend to be Marxist and make fun of politicians (and others) who care about you not at all! College girls adore that shit! They go crazy for it!
'Cept you're actually an adult, living in another country… Apparently, one without its own narratives to enchant you.
Do you understand how this looks to Americans?
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 21, 2014 2:23 PM
What's this? Crid's being an even bigger asshole to Ltw than he is to me?
Interesting. I thought I was the person Crid hated most. I don't take it personally, though. Crid's just an asshole to everyone.
Anyway, since Ltw is providing interesting discussion, Crid's withering assessment notwithstanding, I'll direct my comments to him.
Ltw: Who gives a damn what Reagan did or didn't say, unless you subscribe to the theory that a public health problem doesn't exist until a President declares war on it (War on Poverty, War on Drugs, etc).
Actually, the reason I bring it up is for the benefit of those who think three Ebola patients in the U.S. is some kind of horrible indictment on the President. "How dare he not do what I think he should have done about this terrible epidemic? Impeach! Impeach! Impeach!"
There were forty-one AIDS patients in the U.S. in 1981. Reagan didn't even mention the disease, much less address it, until five years later. Nonetheless, there are two Ebola patients in the U.S. and only one death. And Obama is addressing this. Maybe you don't like the way he's addressing it and you think he should be doing something different, but he is addressing it.
Just pointing out the selective outrage of this right-leaning blog. And it is a right wing blog, make no mistake about that. They damn this President ad nauseum over things that they ignored completely when Bush or Reagan did the same or worse.
TSA, Patriot Act, NSA, terrorism and now Ebola. All indicators of what a horrible, evil man Obama is, but all completely ignored under Bush or Reagan.
It's kind of a shame, too. Because I do enjoy Amy's writing.
Patrick at October 21, 2014 4:17 PM
Oh, and deportation. Obama's deported more illegals than Bush did (now on a 1.5:1 ratio), but still...Obama just isn't deporting enough illegals. But strangely, Bush did.
Patrick at October 21, 2014 4:23 PM
So you got nuthin'? Africa, Patrick! African women!
Nine candles, one cake: Yours! It's gonna be epic!
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 21, 2014 4:43 PM
Actually, the reason I bring it up is for the benefit of those who think three Ebola patients in the U.S. is some kind of horrible indictment on the President.
I agree with you on that Patrick. But in the sense that no one should be suddenly attacking a leader for the immediate front line response to an issue. I didn't like it when it was Reagan, I don't like it now. It may in the fullness of time be something that can be tied back to policy, but in the meantime, let people do their damn jobs. And make them accountable for doing their damn jobs.
My view is you've either hired the right people or you haven't. When the crisis appears, the Great Leader sticking his or her nose in is unhelpful at best. I'll give you an exmaple which got splashed all over the news in Australia 5 years ago. A freighter ran aground on the Great Barrier Reef, ruptured and released a bit of fuel oil, a few hundred tonnes. On the oil spill equivalent of the Richter Scale, about a 0.01. Our Prime Minister found it necessary to organise a flyover to "inspect the clean up efforts". And people were happy he did so! Something that could easily have been left to local authorities to fix.
TSA, Patriot Act, NSA, terrorism and now Ebola. All indicators of what a horrible, evil man Obama is, but all completely ignored under Bush or Reagan.
Now I have to disagree with you. I seem to remember quite a bit of debate about the Patriot Act under Bush. Being burned in effigy doesn't sound like "completely ignored".
As for Crid - well, you may be left wing, but at least you're a US citizen and therefore you win over me. I'm in the Third World apparently, so you'll have to excuse me while I go to the river for my water for the day. Carrying that damn pitcher on my head is such a pain!
Ltw at October 21, 2014 5:49 PM
Do you understand how this looks to Americans?
I think I know how you look to Americans, dickhead. Try getting over me living in another country. Your fevered imaginings aside, I don't make a huge effort to comment here. You point and you click and you type. It's not hard.
Plus, you're quoting P.J. O'Rourke to me? Asshole.
Ltw at October 21, 2014 5:59 PM
> Try getting over me living
> in another country.
Well, we would if you would, but you're a stalker, not a cousin. The depravity of your adoration, your insistence on pretending you're actually part of this miracle, is too perverse to pass unchallenged.
And I think that's kind of sad.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 21, 2014 6:37 PM
You're a weird bloke Crid. Never change.
Ltw at October 21, 2014 7:35 PM
Yeah?
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 21, 2014 10:32 PM
I think it's you who is obsessed with me Crid. It's cute.
Ltw at October 22, 2014 4:34 AM
I didn't know that Ltw was from another country. Once in a while, a topic comes up in which an outsider's perspective is useful, but most of the time, Ltw's nationality is irrelevant.
Of greater significance is the fact that he annoys Crid. You'll have to excuse poor Crid, Ltw. I'd realized several years ago that the list of people Crid doesn't hate would be much shorter than the list of people Crid does hate. In fact, I'm starting to think that the former list has about one person on it.
But returning to our discussion, Ltw, you might have a point about Bush being burned in effigy over the Patriot Act, though I confess I don't remember that happening.
However, regarding all the rest of the stuff, I think Obama takes a disproportionate amount of the blame for programs that had their beginnings with Bush. And my point stands about Reagan and AIDS vs. Obama and Ebola.
Patrick at October 22, 2014 9:54 AM
> I didn't know that Ltw was from
> another country.
I know you didn't. He/she loves that you're oblivious to the motives of those around you, even as (or such that) you whine that American women and African women face, or should face, similar biological hazards. LTW desperately wants to be part of the Miracle, and he/she likes to think you'll be too busy, or too distractible, to notice as he/she slips into a seat at the table.
> my point stands about Reagan and
It's ludicrous... But by all means, double down.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 22, 2014 11:25 AM
Ltw has some sinister motive that I'm oblivious to? Shame on you, Ltw.
Patrick at October 22, 2014 1:53 PM
LTW, women, Africans... The world is crawling with people who's intentions will confound an 8-year-old.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 22, 2014 2:26 PM
You're right, of course, Patrick - people do castigate their political opponents over things they would ignore or gloss over from their own side. I wouldn't say that Bush didn't face criticism, but the "who from" is telling. Fair enough.
And Crid is funny. I come here for Amy's writing too, but also for the *robust* commentary.
Ltw at October 22, 2014 7:11 PM
Yes, you need me. Badly.
Crid [CridComment at Gmail] at October 23, 2014 3:44 AM
You think Crid is funny? I suppose, if you mean "funny" as in "strange." Personally, I think the most incredible thing about Crid is the way he can write a single paragraph, and in his inimitable (thank God) style, make it seem like six pages from the stalest, most tedious, most outdated textbook you could possibly imagine.
About once a month, he might say something that will cause me to chortle. But most of the time, his writing sounds like self-enamored blather.
Patrick at October 23, 2014 12:35 PM
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