What's Keeping Women Out Of Math-Intensive Fields?
There's this notion of the "sexist academy," write researchers Wendy M. Williams and Stephen J. Ceci in The New York Times. However...
Our analysis reveals that the experiences of young and midcareer women in math-intensive fields are, for the most part, similar to those of their male counterparts: They are more likely to receive hiring offers, are paid roughly the same (in 14 of 16 comparisons across the eight fields), are generally tenured and promoted at the same rate (except in economics), remain in their fields at roughly the same rate, have their grants funded and articles accepted as often and are about as satisfied with their jobs. Articles published by women are cited as often as those by men. In sum, with a few exceptions, the world of academic science in math-based fields today reflects gender fairness, rather than gender bias.Moreover, in contrast to frequent claims that outright bias pushes more women out of math-intensive fields, we actually found a greater exodus of women from non-math-intensive fields in which they are already well represented as professors (like psychology and biology, where 45 to 65 percent of new professors are women) than from fields in which they are underrepresented (like engineering, computer science and physics, where only 25 to 30 percent of new professors are women). Our analyses show that women can and do prosper in math-based fields of science, if they choose to enter these fields in the first place.
So if alleged hiring and promotion biases don't explain the underrepresentation of women in math-intensive fields, what does? According to our research, the biggest culprits are rooted in women's earlier educational choices, and in women's occupational and lifestyle preferences.
As children, girls tend to show more interest in living things (such as people and animals), while boys tend to prefer playing with machines and building things. As adolescents, girls express less interest in careers like engineering and computer science. Despite earning higher grades throughout schooling in all subjects -- including math and science -- girls are less likely to take math-intensive advanced-placement courses like calculus and physics.
Women are also less likely to declare college majors in math-intensive science fields. However, if they do take introductory science courses early in their college education, they are actually more likely than men to switch into majors in math-intensive fields of science -- especially if their instructors are women. This shows that women's interest in math-based fields can be cultivated, but that majoring in these fields requires exposure to enough math and science early on.
In contrast to math-based fields, women prefer veterinary medicine, where they now constitute 80 percent of graduates, and life sciences, in which they earn over half of all doctoral degrees; women are also half of all newly minted M.D.s and 70 percent of psychology Ph.D.s. However, those college women who do choose math-intensive majors like engineering persist in them through graduate school and into the academy at the same rate as their male counterparts -- again showing that women can and do succeed in math-based fields if they develop interest in them and commit to them.
I'm SHOCKED...shocked I tell you! The very idea that women are making their own choices about their careers in a first world democracy is outrageous! You mean to tell me that those "patriarchal" statistics are implying that women make their own choices??? Ludicrous! We all know that when a woman reaches 18 she's offered a nurses uniform, a teachers outift, or a housewife dress and she MUST pick one or become and untouchable!
In all seriousness, how many more times are we going to have to hit feminists over the head with objective data? Oh right, the wage gap is the "Terminator Lie"...
bellflower at November 1, 2014 1:03 AM
I am a better natural mathematician than my husband is. I had higher SAT scores in math than he did.
He is the engineer and I am not, because he is more methodical, more focused, and and is much better at the *process* than I am.
He will wrestle with a problem quite a bit longer than I have the patience for.
That is the main difference. I suspect that women have to be more gifted at math then men do, in order to achieve the same level, because (who knows) probably brain organization?
Isab at November 1, 2014 1:05 AM
He will wrestle with a problem quite a bit longer than I have the patience for.
That is the main difference.
At one time that difference might have been driven by "girls arent good at math" so they gave up more readily
But today girls are told "you are naturally better than boys" so when boys - who are told to "work at it even if you arent god at it" - do better they give up because they think they arent good at math because they should automatically be better without any effort or hard work
lujlp at November 1, 2014 1:52 AM
"women prefer veterinary medicine, where they now constitute 80 percent of graduates, and life sciences, in which they earn over half of all doctoral degrees; women are also half of all newly minted M.D.s and 70 percent of psychology Ph.D.s."
Doesn't this mean that men are now underrepresented? Are those who have been demanding "equality" going to say anything?
Charles at November 1, 2014 4:38 AM
"Doesn't this mean that men are now underrepresented? Are those who have been demanding "equality" going to say anything?"
Yes. They'll say, "You go, Grrrrllz!"
Then they'll demand it be even easier to "prove" rape charges.
dee nile at November 1, 2014 5:02 AM
Unsurprisingly, women are women and men are men.
Alan at November 1, 2014 5:15 AM
I was always good at math. Had significantly higher math SATs than verbal (more than 100 points).
I didn't want to do advanced math because I thought it boring. I went to school to be a doctor and considered MD/PHD...until I did a summer research internship...boring.
Finally after a few false starts, I am a computer programmer. Uses math, much more immediate results. Not boring.
I personally am better with computers than people.
I do think I am better at math at most people I know.
Katrina at November 1, 2014 7:46 AM
My husband is a mathematician. According to him, there are lots of very good female French and Italian mathematicians. He thinks it must be something about the cultural set up in those countries.
NicoleK at November 1, 2014 9:27 AM
How non-PC.
I think we men need a campaign to work against the discrimination we suffer throughout school (girls get higher grades), and in fields like biology.
Meanwhile, we should ensure women's rights by demanding that women are equally represented in male-dominated fields like ditch digging and garbage collecting.
a_random_guy at November 1, 2014 10:03 AM
A random guy,
There is sex based discrimination at US public schools. As the article notes women do better in all classes than men. What they don't note is men test better in math and science than women. The difference between tests and grades is usually class conduct or behavior scores. So since boys act like boys and not like girls they get worse grades.
Ben at November 1, 2014 5:17 PM
The male-female ratio in higher education has been steadily moved in favor of the females ever since the 1970s. Total enrollment figures show that females outnumbered their male counterparts for the first time in the late 1970s, and they have steadily increased their numerical advantage ever since. The superiority first came in public universities, but soon private universities saw female enrollment surpass male enrollment.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2012/02/16/the-male-female-ratio-in-college/
Stinky the Clown at November 1, 2014 7:41 PM
You have to be able to do the work to get the job? Shocking.
MarkD at November 2, 2014 3:19 AM
They are onto something, but I think they are drawing stronger conclusions than the data warrant. There may be other factors at play in this. For example, I think young women are more prone to feeling "imposter syndrome" where they believe the difficulty of mathematics is reflective of them, not the subject material. I also think some fields are more conducive to having a family. In many fields, if you take some time off between graduation and tenure, you're hosed. For all their liberalism, the academy trails the rest of the country in family benefits. This may also be why Europe has more women in STEMS because of mandated leave and so on (regardless of what one thinks of such policies).
Mike at November 2, 2014 6:22 AM
STEMS it's full of boring nerds, which while more socially acceptable than it used t be is still looked on as boring.
Joe J at November 2, 2014 8:30 AM
Went to an Honors College spiel for my daughter who is about to graduate. It was an invite to the top students in our geographic area to our top public state school. Anywho, I came away with a couple of thoughts. The ratio of guys to girls was 2:1 at least. I don't know if the girls stayed home or if they didn't make the cut, but my daughter was like a shiny penny in that room of suits. When talking about course work the lecturers would reference the engineering field. I don't recall any other field being discussed. Thought that was really odd. Oh, and they didn't have a spoon for the damn ranch dip and no one would say anything about it. Snort.
gooseegg at November 2, 2014 3:46 PM
What's Keeping Women Out Of Math-Intensive Fields?
Women.
No one held these women back:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_scientists_before_the_21st_century
Conan the Grammarian at November 3, 2014 8:39 AM
In case you missed it:
Women are OVERrepresented in medicine and veterinary medicine - both of which require lotsa mathematics, including statistics - *shudder* - at a level I (mechanical engineer) did not have to take.
So this is not really about ability.
NicoleK - as an American living overseas, I corroborate your husband's observation. There seem to be a lot of women in mathematics and computers in Europe.
Here in Israel programming is increasingly viewed by the "ultra" Orthdox as nice, clean, office work with lots of flex-time opportunities... so a lot of Orthodox women are going into it.
Ben David at November 4, 2014 12:54 AM
Ben David, that's a good point. Freelance programming, where you get paid on a per-SLOC basis, could be just the thing for someone who needs a job with a flexible schedule.
Cousin Dave at November 4, 2014 11:12 AM
Well, Ben David beat me to my comment. Medicine and veterinary medicine require as good a grounding in math as a biology or chemistry advanced degree.
If you look at the biology/medical journals (there's a lot of overlap there), they read like statistics text books. Doctors need to understand a test's false positive and false negative rates, regression analysis, etc. just to keep current. It's all statistics - but since it's statistics on biology, it's biostatistics.
Shannon at November 5, 2014 6:07 PM
"women prefer veterinary medicine, where they now constitute 80 percent of graduates, and life sciences, in which they earn over half of all doctoral degrees; women are also half of all newly minted M.D.s and 70 percent of psychology Ph.D.s."
Here in Texas, that's causing a problem. The female vets like the nice offices and taking care of puppies and kitties.
Not the fieldwork for taking care of cattle and horses. Lots of adjustments in cattle country to the nonavailability of vets.
Lots of pirated car driving going on....
Mike43 at November 6, 2014 12:55 PM
So, the folks willing to be cow and horse vets (probably mostly men) start making more money because of the scarcity and the risk premium; because being a horse or cow vet involves going to the ranch/farm and poking or prodding large animals that can kick or stomp you to death if annoyed.
Eventually, this wage differential will result in more accusations of sexism and patriarchy and demands for government action to equalize wages for jobs that are not equal.
Conan the Grammarian at November 7, 2014 12:30 PM
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