A toll highway here uses cameras and/or cellphones to track usage, and charge accordingly.

We certainly have the technology to charge each car a registration fee based on mileage.

But there is a tradeoff in terms of the government being able to track your car - assuming it is done using sensors or something similar to the Waze app.

If Obama had been anything other than a Chicago Community organizer he would have "remembered" the I-35W Mississippi River bridge collapse in 2007 (I know well before his time) killing 13 people and injuring 145. The bridge was Minnesota's third busiest.

A simple question (What's the status of our bridges?) and an Executive Order (I know how much he hates using these.) as part of TARP? "Rebuild all our D class bridges up to B standards" would have been much better than all of the "Green" initiatives the Dems loved.

If Trump just talks about it it will be better.

Toll roads and toll bridges work well. Interstate 35 is a toll road in Kansas, and it is in fantastic shape.
Our county roads are paid through property taxes and our state roads are paid through gasoline taxes.

I'm not fond of the feds providing money for anything other than Interstate roads - and even then, those who use them should pay for them - through tolls.

Drivers pay for the roads we use? We already do that, dammit. What the F does everyone think gasoline and licensing taxes are for? About a fourth of the cost of every gallon of gas you buy is taxes. You pay taxes for your driver's license and your car tag. And truckers pay road-use taxes already.

The problem is, those taxes that are collected from drivers, that are supposed to go to highway construction and maintenance, instead keep getting diverted to other projects or to cover shortfalls in the general fund. This happens at both the federal and the state level. In the Northeast, a lot of gasoline tax money goes to subsidize mass transportation. Where I live, the state government is constitutionally required to spend a certain amount on public schools. Gasoline taxes go to replenish the general fund after that money gets taken out.

This is why taxpayers are unwilling to consent to any more taxes: government is fundamentally untrustworthy. Even when the voters approve initiatives and referendums in which taxes are approved to be spent on specific things, all the legislative and executive branches have to do is get a court to agree that the law doesn't mean what it says, and voila! the money may now be spent on the ruling class' preferences rather than what the people approved. So no, until there are major reforms in government, there aren't going to be any drivers receiving road-usage bills. Not unless the government wants to incite a civil war.

During the campaign, Trump proposed a transportation plan that would cost at least $500 billion dollars

$450 Billion will be spent on union wages alone. $49 Billion will be used for diversity training those union workers to keep them from whistling at women passing by, and the remaining $1 Billion will be used to pay for the lowest-grade construction materials charged as if they were of the highest quality.

Oh, and they're going to be at least 3 years behind and $100 billion over-budget (conservative estimates.)

Cousin Dave nails it!!!!

Cousin Dave explained it very well. Special "taxes" have to be watched over like a Mother Hen does her chicks.

You have to shame the "officials" w/a letter writing campaign to prevent them from raiding them.

2 easy examples:

Special fee on your motorcycle license to pay for safety training (raiding stopped via newspaper ads).

Removal of tolls on I-95 through Richmond, Va were scheduled (road and repairs had been paid off several times) and WHOOPS! the pols had a new fund to be funded. Someone w/deep pockets paid for an ad sign right at the major toll stop explaining this and providing a phone number to call. WOW! The "fund" found funding from some other source and the tolls were removed.

Toll booths slow traffic, causing traffic jams and accidents. While FastTrak and similar electronic devices can speed things up a bit, the casual user will not have paid the FastTrak entry fee and will have to manually hand the toll collector his fare in a slow-moving toll line. I lived for a long time in the Bay Area and the traffic back ups going through the toll plaza into the City were legendary.

As a child, my family also visited Chicago often, back when there were toll booths every few miles on the expressways. Traffic backups there discouraged use of the toll roads, pushing traffic onto surface streets and choking neighborhoods and the small towns surrounding the city.

Toll roads don't work.

Those cameras don't always work either. A little electrical tape and some other guy's paying your tolls. My wife got a ticket recently for running a toll booth in San Diego. On a weekend in which we never left the Bay Area. The car in the photo was not even close to what she drives. The cameras are not foolproof and are not a solution. Especially if the tax is applied a year later at registration. Care to dispute a year's worth of driving charges with the DMV every time you register your car?

The gasoline tax was supposed to pay for infrastructure maintenance and improvements - that is, until the government figured out it could "borrow" that money for the general fund.

Now, with adherence to CAFE standards, hybrid and electric cars, and carpooling to use the HOV lanes, the gasoline tax revenue is declining.

Hmm. Governments mandated higher fuel economy and incentivized people to purchase electric or hybrid cars that use less gasoline and gasoline tax revenue declined. Who could have seen that one coming?

Governments are scrambling for new ways to tax people to make up that lost revenue. The mileage tax is a favorite. But taxes on mileage will fall hard on working class folks and the poor, those who cannot live near downtown or the nice suburban office parks where the work is and have to live out where the busses and trains don't run. If they can't afford a car with which to get to work, they'll have to go on unemployment or welfare.

Those who have no car and smugly declare that the users of the roads (drivers, truckers, etc.) should pay for the maintenance don't seem to realize how their food gets to them. In trucks. On roads. They're paying all of those higher taxes in the price of their food, their appliances, everything they buy that is not manufactured or grown on the premises; everything comes to them on a road.

And while it might be nice to live in planned communities (cages at the zoo) with a grocery store in walking distance, most of the US was not built that way and it will take time for rebuild it for a society with less mobility and fewer cars. Cars = mobility = freedom.

So, what's a fair solution? Politicians aren't the solution. Infrastructure maintenance is not sexy, and promises of it do not garner votes. So, the government ignores it until a bridge collapses or an unbuilt bypass causes traffic woes or the unmaintained infrastructure becomes a weapon with which to score points against a political opponent.

We need to elect realists, who will stop promising the same pool of money to six different recipients and will, with brutal efficiency, allocate the funds where they are truly needed. Hipster Joe living in his parents' basement in Williamsburg, Brooklyn doesn't need food stamps. The bridge into the city, however, does need a refit. Hipster Joe votes (maybe); the bridge doesn't. And the people who use the bridge expect it magically to always be there, so they vote for the politician who promises that poor Hipster Joe won't starve.

My prediction on Trump? He'll be another Schwarzenegger -- riding in to office on his stardom and then finding it rather hard to impossible to actually come through on all the golden bullshit he shoveled during the campaign.

And, like Schwarzenegger, he'll confuse popularity with approval, choosing popularity over making the hard decisions that need to be made.

Trump as the new Schwarzenegger? Let's hope the Left doesn't get hold of that; they'll turn it into another Hitler parallel, since both were born in Austria.

"My prediction on Trump? He'll be another Schwarzenegger -- riding in to office on his stardom and then finding it rather hard to impossible to actually come through on all the golden bullshit he shoveled during the campaign. "

Yea, that Obama, a real stand up guy, man of his word, is going to be a tough act to follow.

I think you misunderstand, a governors and a presidents powers and function. What was Schwartzenegger supposed to do over the objections of the one party state?

But there is a tradeoff in terms of the government being able to track your car

That is flatly unacceptable. UN ACCEPT ABLE.

Since the data will be gathered in reference to taxes, the policia will not need to bother with a search warrant to get access.

Hackers will gain access to it shortly thereafter.

It will be preserved and archived for all time.

$500 billion? Is that all?
If you've objected to spending in the Middle East, oddly enough to build schools and bridges, here you go: spending here instead. Well, I hope it's "instead". I dunno what the ROI on shelling the Middle East is, especially given the two big holes in Manhattan, but I betcha a businessman can find out.

Have you heard of Eisenhower? That's the name of your Interstate system. It was billed as a fast way for the Army to get around to defend the country, but what it did was make Teamsters filthy rich and Americans addicts to the automobile. That remains the most expensive public works in America.

$500 billion? Is that all?
If you've objected to spending in the Middle East, oddly enough to build schools and bridges, here you go: spending here instead. Well, I hope it's "instead". I dunno what the ROI on shelling the Middle East is, especially given the two big holes in Manhattan, but I betcha a businessman can find out.

Have you heard of Eisenhower? That's the name of your Interstate system. It was billed as a fast way for the Army to get around to defend the country, but what it did was make Teamsters filthy rich and Americans addicts to the automobile. That remains the most expensive public works in America.

"My prediction on Trump? He'll be another Schwarzenegger -- riding in to office on his stardom and then finding it rather hard to impossible to actually come through on all the golden bullshit he shoveled during the campaign. "

Schwarzenegger was a fiscal disaster for California. I'm hoping Trump doesn't follow that model.

The toll tracking system in central Texas has been fraught with billing errors and overcharges, so I really don't view that as a solution. I'll admit, however, that I certainly won't object if y'all want to charge hybrid drivers the same amount to drive a mile as I'd pay in my suburban. As is, I'm pretty sure that I'm paying my fair share in fuel taxes. That fact that our government robs the gasoline tax fund to pay for other crap is beyond my control.

Schwarzenegger was a fiscal disaster for California. I'm hoping Trump doesn't follow that model.

Kevin at November 23, 2016 10:04 AM

In what respect? Arnold failed to constrain the veto proof democratic legislature and reign in their spending by wagging his finger at them?

That disaster?

I'm hoping Trump doesnt follow the Obama model either. But with spending going theough congress, Trump isnt going to get a lot of what he wants. 500 billion is his opening for a long hard negotiation.

1. Is there an infrastructure problem in America? I mean that seriously. Some states care about their roads. Others obviously don't. But none of that is a federal issue. Same with bridges. Same with ports. Local infrastructure is and should be a local issue.

2. Until Trump talks about repealing Davis-Bacon he isn't serious about infrastructure.

3. There aren't any shovel ready projects that just need money anyways. As Obama found out there is already plenty of money to repair infrastructure once the local people are interested in it getting done. But if the various political issues and red tape aren't dealt with it doesn't matter how much money you have. Nothing will get done.

4. What Cousin Dave said. We don't need any more taxes. We need to spend what we do tax efficiently.

Honestly I doubt that anyone who voted for Trump cares if he keeps this promise or not.

And Conan, toll roads work fine most places. And yes, most people who live in areas with toll roads have toll tags. As for your ticket, that is a government scam. They are just billing someone they think will pay. Austin does the same around Texas. They just send bills out to various people in the hope they pay rather than contest this in court. Eventually the city of Austin will have to face a class action suit over it. But they've avoided it so far.

In what respect? Arnold failed to constrain the veto proof democratic legislature and reign in their spending by wagging his finger at them?

It was his number one promise to the public, and he famously said his successor would be inheriting the same budget mess he inherited from his Democratic predecessor. Under Schwarzenegger, the state increased spending greatly; that's on him, not on the legislature.

Under Schwarzenegger, the state increased spending greatly; that's on him, not on the legislature.

Kevin at November 23, 2016 10:32 AM

Please expalin with your best understading of how the California budgeting process works, exactly what you think he could have legally done to stop it.

"Toll roads and toll bridges work well."

Horse manure. Instead of getting rid of the tolls once the Thruway bonds were paid off, New York RAISED them. Now they claim they don't have enough revenue to maintain the Thruway. So they want to raise them some more. I left, so feel free, NY. It won't be my money.

Give them money, they spend it. Then they come back for more. The gas tax works, it doesn't require making you wait to give barely civil servants your cash at the booths. It's loosely related to drive more, pay more.

And Conan, toll roads work fine most places.

Not in areas with high congestion or where the toll road is the only way (e.g., The Bay Bridge).

And what about those areas suffering from higher road congestion as drivers avoid the toll road? Do toll roads work for them?

And yes, most people who live in areas with toll roads have toll tags.

Casual users typically don't as toll tags often have an entry fee that isn't worth it for them.

==============================

Toll roads don't work.

Ben, do you trust the government to eliminate or reduce gasoline taxes, since you will now be paying tolls as well? Or will the tolls just be another tax feeding a voracious government appetite and double taxation on some citizens but not all?

In addition, toll roads are inefficient. The money collected goes largely to paying for the toll collection apparatus and enforcement.

And tolls rarely disappear after the item they were implemented to pay for is paid off. I lived in Jacksonville, Florida where the tolls were implemented in order to pay for bridge construction. The tolls remained in place for decades after the bridge costs were paid off, ostensibly to pay for improvements and maintenance. People there actually drove miles out of their way to avoid the congestion of the toll booths, wasting fuel and creating traffic congestion in areas that were not designed to accommodate it, resulting in even more road projects to relieve that congestion. When the tolls were finally removed, traffic congestion eased considerably, and not just at the toll plazas.

In San Francisco, The Golden Gate Bridge tolls were kept in place as the bridge was declared a national landmark and the tolls were the then used as the entry fee. Except that they GGB is the only way to get from Marin County to San Francisco, so commuters every day are paying for a park that they have no choice in visiting.

On the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge spans, tolls were left in place after the bridge was paid for in order to pay for improvements to the bridges and the approaches as well as to subsidize public transit (ostensibly to relieve traffic on the bridge). Government always comes up with a reason to leave a tax in place.

Since a good road system benefits everyone, give me a gasoline tax over tolls any day.

Please expalin with your best understading of how the California budgeting process works, exactly what you think he could have legally done to stop it.

The governor proposes a budget in January; the legislature finalizes a budget in June. In between, subcommittees meet to hash out details and the two work together. Yes, Schwarzenegger was a Republican and the Legislature is Democratic.

Now it's your turn to explain with your best understanding Schwarzenegger's more fiscally responsible original budget from any year and show how it was derailed in the lege.

Now it's your turn to explain with your best understanding Schwarzenegger's more fiscally responsible original budget from any year and show how it was derailed in the lege.

Kevin at November 23, 2016 11:10 AM

I am glad you recognize that the governor proposes and the legislature disposes.

Do you think if Arnold had tried to slash spending, or union entitlements that the legislature would have gone along?

You get no credit for empty gestures. A budget that was fiscally responsible would have been DOA and everyone knew it.

Scwartzenager kicked the can down the road, just like Brown has and the reckoning is coming.

If I recall correctly you are the one who has been spouting all the crap about how fiscally sound California is.....

Unsustainable spending didnt start with Schwartzenager, and it didnt end with him.

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1952768,00.html

Then I found this.....

You get no credit for empty gestures. A budget that was fiscally responsible would have been DOA and everyone knew it.

We'll have to disagree. I'm more about personal responsibility than passing the buck.

Schwarzenegger had many years to propose a fiscally responsible budget, and never did it to my knowledge. And that was his prime promise in running for office.

Here's his 2006 budget. Please note this was in January, before the lege had a chance to touch it, not in June, after compromises were made.

Aided by a multibillion-dollar windfall in tax revenues, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger proposed a $125.6 billion election-year budget on Tuesday that would break from recent years of austerity and increase spending on education, health, prisons and public works without raising taxes.

The budget also maps out a multiyear, $222 billion program to build highways, transit systems, waterworks, classrooms and prison cells using existing state and federal money and $68 billion in new state bonds, $25 billion of which would be authorized in the coming fiscal year. The borrowing would require approval by voters and the Legislature.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/11/us/schwarzenegger-budget-calls-for-billions-in-new-spending.html

Ben: "1. Is there an infrastructure problem in America?"

As long as it's not you or yours on the bridge: "In all, 58,495 bridges out of the 609,539 bridges in the United States are currently rated as structurally deficient. This equates to 9.6 percent of the bridge stock in the nation."

Ben: "But none of that is a federal issue."

"Federal funds, on average, provide 52 percent of a state's annual department of transportation capital outlays for state highway and bridge projects, according to ARTBA."

http://www.asce.org/magazine/20160315-analysis-reveals-58,495-u-s--bridges-are-structurally-deficient/

Ben: "There aren't any shovel ready projects that just need money anyways."

Totally wrong Ben. DOT has years of projects approved but just lacking funds.

Totally wrong Ben. DOT has years of projects approved but just lacking funds. ~ Bob in Texas at November 23, 2016 12:50 PM

And someone will sue to stop them as soon as they start - because the approval is years old and does not meet current environmental or noise pollution regulations.

I agree. No, not with your assessment of Trump, my Hillary-voting friend, but with the concept of user fees for transportation, to the greatest extent possible.

Bob,

Why should people in Texas pay for a bridge in Arkansas? Just because the federal government loves spending other people's money to buy votes doesn't mean this is a good idea. There is a good reason for the federal government to maintain a military supply network. After that they should but out.

Here in Houston we have a number of roads that need resurfacing. When Obama got his tarp money and spread it around we used it to resurface a road that had just been resurfaced a year earlier. After all it is a use it or lose it proposition. Federal spending leads to waste. All of those bridges that need work, that is a political issue and not a funding issue.

As for toll roads working, yes they do. Do the tolls ever go away, no. Does the gas tax ever go away, no. Do tolls get repurposed to other budgetary needs, yes. Do gas taxes get repurposed to other needs, yes too. But toll roads capture far more of the funds related to them. If your toll road falls apart you can't charge any more tolls so they take care of the roads.

The issue with congestion are non-sequiturs. If the road wasn't there you would have more congestion on other streets as people have to get around. If the road wasn't a toll road you have to find the funds from somewhere else to pay for it. The money doesn't come from magic fairy land. The congestion issues Conan raises are issues of monopoly not toll.

As for shovel ready projects, DOT approval is irrelevant. As Conan pointed out you have to deal with the law suits and other red tape as well. When TARP was passed we were promised it would go to shovel ready projects. There weren't any.

After spending one trillion on 'infrastructure' with TARP and ending up with the same number of road and bridge issues why would another half trillion from the federal government make a difference?

(I do agree with you Conan that I prefer a general tax to toll but I consider toll an acceptable alternative.)