Why Islam Likely Can't Be Reformed
What it would take -- as I have said in numerous blog posts and what ex-Muslim Hamed Abdel-Samad, an author and political scientist, says in this two-minute video.
As @TarekFatah tweeted from Samad's words in the video: "I don't believe in reform of Islam. I believe in the reformability of thinking Muslims."
In short, Samad says -- and is surely right -- that to reform Islam, Muslims must put aside Mohammed and the Quran.
This is why I think Islam cannot be reformed.
To explain further what he's saying:
To reform Islam, Muslims have to get rid of Mohammed as a role model they must emulate. The man raped, looted, mass-murdered, and took a 6-year-old as a wife. He was, it seems, a psychopath using Islam to serve his needs.
And Muslims have to stop seeing the Quran's words as Allah's words, to be unquestionably followed. This is how the Quran has been set up. However, for Islam to not be a pernicious force on this planet, Muslims have to start seeing the Quran's dictates as seventh century dictates, "to be read in the context of the seventh century." In other words, not appropriate for modern life. So, no, Muslims should not be murdering apostates, for one.
I doubt that these changes can be made or made in any reasonable amount of time.
"I don't believe in reform of Islam. I believe in the reformability of thinking Muslims." #ExMuslim Hamed. pic.twitter.com/aqRaYtK5ad
— Tarek Fatah (@TarekFatah) February 11, 2017
I think Samad is probably worth reading. Here's his book on Amazon, that grew out of a lecture he gave in Cairo -- resulting in a call for his death by three prominent Egyptian clerics.
Amy, I don't mean to seem harsh (unlike every other waking moment of my life, when I make a point of being harsh), and perhaps you're busy and don't have enough time to dedicate to finding interesting topics for your blog, but it seems like you're repeating yourself lately. We just had a discussion on the reformability (or lack thereof) of Islam. And now the topic is up again.
In fact, it seems like we could probably pin this blog down to four topics: civil asset forfeiture, whether Islam can be reformed, low-carb dieting, and the TSA. Most everything else is somewhat related to those four things.
As for whether Islam is reformable and why it needs to put aside the Qu'ran, don't Jews have to put aside the Torah to remain Jews?
Or you know something about Judaism I don't. Do Jews go out and stone gays and obnoxious children, sell their daughters into slavery and all the other stuff commanded in the Torah?
Patrick at February 11, 2017 6:56 AM
This is adorable.
> I doubt that these changes can
> be made or made in any
> reasonable amount of time
It's good to have a theatrically offhand opinion about globally complicated and incalculably intricate matters for which one never will and never could be consulted.
"Reasonable" for whom?
You "doubt" one illusionary outcome. What others are left?
Crid at February 11, 2017 8:00 AM
Speaking of which, Crid, Patrick:
Arizona: Phoenix Muslim Gets 30 Years For Attack on Muhammad Cartoon Contest
mpetrie98 at February 11, 2017 7:58 PM
> Speaking of which
Relevance?
Is there anyone, anyone at all on this blog, who can ascribe the flow of events with regard to Islam in America beyond a series of ludicrous grunts and un-articulated presumptions?
Dude, WHAT? What are you trying to say with that link? PUT IT IN A SENTENCE. Ready? GO
Do you want to piss your pants over 'trend' stories of that magnitude? The first freaking paragraph of your citation doesn't appear to be certain whether or not an attack actually happened.You’re eight times more likely to be killed by a police officer than a terrorist.
Sanchez: "Basically, terrorism is a less serious threat than everything else in the world, including toddlers and pillows."
Car accidents. Drunken falls. Infectious disease. Lightning strikes. Jealous mistresses. The swallowing of construction materials. Poorly-tacked carpeting. Shark attacks. All of these killers have shown harsher, more threatening dynamism in the recent years of life on American soil than has militant Islam.
The impulse of Americans to piss liquid fear into their own undershorts over this while ignoring so many greater hazards, and to grumble so indecipherably in their puddlepants thereafter, is just weird. Weird.
Even if you're a teetotaler, even if you've never had so much as a sip of beer, every minute you spend reading a blog called CreepingSharia should obligate you for 50 hours of study on a blog called ThunderingAlcoholism... The threats in your life are that disproportionate. You are and will be dealing with the impacts of drinkers every day of your life. I'd not be surprised if you've never even met a Muslim, let alone a nasty one.
Having done that reading and accepted that proportion, you would then find yourself wondering exactly what Amy has in mind for the course of American conduct when "changes [can't] be made in a reasonable amount of time."
Crid at February 12, 2017 5:09 AM
On the other hand, Crid, Muslims account for only 1% of the population, but 94% of all terrorist related deaths. When someone is committing an atrocity that is obscenely out of proportion to the size of their demographic, it's time to shine a light on it.
Let's extrapolate as to what would would happen if we threw open our doors to the middle eastern refugees.
Patrick at February 12, 2017 6:13 AM
"On the other hand, Crid, Muslims account for only 1% of the population, but 94% of all terrorist related deaths. When someone is committing an atrocity that is obscenely out of proportion to the size of their demographic, it's time to shine a light on it."
So feminists WERE right in stereotyping men as rapists. We gotta shine a light on that yo' I mean men do account for almost all rapes.
Y'all often use that argument about x group (black people, Muslims, women) doing x thing at a disproportionate rate to their demographic then y'all get pissy when people do it in regards to men. Do y'all finally get why other groups don't like you doing that to them? Or is the irony of this argument lost on you? (Yes)
Ppen at February 12, 2017 7:34 AM
BTW link the source of that stat. I find it highly dubious.
Ppen at February 12, 2017 7:35 AM
Go right ahead and shine the light. I'd be very interested in gaining insight as to what makes men rapists so we can perhaps prevent it. In fact, men commit more of almost every crime.
No.
Patrick at February 12, 2017 11:19 AM
Ppen Says:
"So feminists WERE right in stereotyping men as rapists. We gotta shine a light on that yo' I mean men do account for almost all rapes."
You have selected a very poor example to make your overarching point.
When an activist group goes out of their way to constrain the definition of rape to only include forced penetration... and calls being forced to penetrate some other crime... one should not be surprised if the people with the protruding genitals make up the majority of rapists.
If we use a more inclusive definition that says rape occurs whenever anyone is forced to have sex against their will then the gender distinction in the statistics rapidly evaporates.
Your overall point about broad brush strokes is accurate, you just selected a really really poor example to illustrate your point.
Artemis at February 12, 2017 11:52 AM
jesus christ Artemis do you continue to be an obtuse bore who needlessly needs to correct people despite agreeing with them.
thats the point aint it? when patrick says muslims account for most acts of terrorism well exactly how do you define terrorism? When activists say rape is overwhelmingly a male crime and is so common that getting raped as a woman is a given ya gotta ask how do do you define rape?
Ppen at February 12, 2017 2:06 PM
No, I didn't say Muslims account for most acts of terrorism. Learn to read.
As it happens, the FBI includes certain acts against property as terrorist acts, without the loss of life.
I said that Muslims account for 1% of the U.S. population but 94% of terrorist connected deaths. And they do.
You know? Deaths? That thing that happens to a person when he's no longer breathing and never will again?
I did not say that Muslims account for most acts of terror. I said they account for most of the terrorist-related deaths.
Patrick at February 12, 2017 2:47 PM
Ppen,
"jesus christ Artemis do you continue to be an obtuse bore who needlessly needs to correct people despite agreeing with them."
I'm sorry Ppen... I have this nagging allegiance to the truth that prevents me from just letting bullshit arguments pass by even when I happen to agree with the main thesis.
I know that things like integrity can be rather scarce around here, but if you make a correct argument by means of faulty premises it is important for it to be called out.
"thats the point aint it? when patrick says muslims account for most acts of terrorism well exactly how do you define terrorism?"
That is all well and good, but that wasn't your argument earlier... nor do you back up this position explicitly now.
If you argument is that if we defined terrorism differently then the statistics would bare out different results that is a substantive claim that you can try to prove with numbers.
So please make your point and correctly back it up so that you can win your argument properly.
Artemis at February 12, 2017 3:59 PM
I don't think reform of Islam is impossible. Yes, I know that the religion has various bits of anti-reform doctrine embedded in it. But the doctrine of papal infallibility wasn't able to stop the Protestant Reformation. It'll happen when enough Muslims decide that they no longer believe in the old way. When that will be is anyone's guess. Who's going to be the first to nail their thesis to the mosque door?
Cousin Dave at February 13, 2017 7:35 AM
> No.
Yours is not the path to rhetorical authority.
Crid at February 13, 2017 7:53 PM
> you just selected a really
> really poor example to
> illustrate your point.
Hey Artemis!
Ever kiss a girl?
Did she "illustrate your point," if you catch my drift?
Crid at February 13, 2017 7:57 PM
Crid Says:
"Did she "illustrate your point," if you catch my drift?"
Don't be ridiculous Crid... why would anyone have someone draw on their genitals?
Hey, if your kink is having someone take a sharp pencil to your junk, more power to you... but that really isn't a common fetish.
Artemis at February 14, 2017 5:56 AM
And yet once again, and even in that most willful realm of individuality, you describe being not normal or uncommon as the most terrifying outcome.
For must of us, this isn't how it works.
Were you raised in a group home with other abnormals?
Crid at February 14, 2017 10:25 PM
Crid Says:
"And yet once again, and even in that most willful realm of individuality, you describe being not normal or uncommon as the most terrifying outcome."
I did???
I am pretty sure I said more power to you for your masochistic fetish of having sharp objects shoved into your penis.
I'm just saying that I'm not into that sort of thing.
Artemis at February 15, 2017 6:06 AM
Crid,
I also couldn't help but notice that you are busy posting to online blogs during the evening of Valentines Day.
I think all of this posturing about people being lonely is just projection. People in relationships often spend time with their loved one on February 14th.
I would wish you luck in finding someone... but it feels like I would be wishing a curse on someone else by doing that.
Artemis at February 15, 2017 6:09 AM
Autistic, right? You deep on the spectrum. Half-past green, well on the way to blue.
C'mon.
Crid at February 15, 2017 8:41 AM
Also, aside from your continuing obsession with "normalcy," I'm struck by your instantaneous translation of a mild double entendre into a nightmare castration fantasy.
I get the sense that the people in your life haven't been patient with you.
I wouldn't have either, but still.
Crid at February 15, 2017 2:22 PM
Crid... even you have to be capable of seeing the irony of you trying to call into question another persons romantic life by posting on the evening of Valentine's day to an internet blog.
Really Crid?... you had nothing better to do?... no one who was looking for your attention?
All of your whining and moaning is simply projection. You are intensely lonely and have no romantic prospects... so you assume that someone you happen not to like is in the same boat.
I'm also not the one here is "obsessed" with normalcy either. That is also projection as you keep trying to assert that there is something "abnormal" about me.
If you weren't so obsessed with normalcy you wouldn't keep using that as your go to place when you have nothing intelligent to say.
Artemis at February 16, 2017 6:01 AM
"I'm struck by your instantaneous translation of a mild double entendre into a nightmare castration fantasy."
So let me get this straight... you transform my comment that someone failed to illustrate their point into a middle school-esque juvenile sex joke... and I am the one who has surprised you by taking it a step further by poking fun at your own masochistic sexual fetish?
I didn't realize you were such a fainting violet over there. Do you need a fan?... are you suffering from the vapors?
Artemis at February 16, 2017 6:10 AM
> and I am the one who has
> surprised you
Yeah. That Skinner-box vibe of yours.
Crid at February 16, 2017 6:50 AM
Crid,
So no answer as to why you were spending your Valentines day evening trolling the internet telling other people that *their* sex life is lacking?
Artemis at February 17, 2017 6:07 AM
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