Trump, With His Know-Nothing Certainty, Is A Threat To Public Health
In New York Review of Books, Daniel Smith writes:
Measles is a severe virus than can result in high fever, diarrhea, pneumonia, deafness, brain swelling, and death. It is very hardy and therefore wildly contagious; it can survive in the air for up to two hours after an infected person has sneezed or coughed. Among those who aren't immune, nine out of ten people who are exposed to measles will contract the virus. It is one of the leading causes of childhood death worldwide--and it is a growing threat to the United States.In 2014, the US Centers for Disease Control recorded twenty-three separate outbreaks of measles in the United States, involving 668 individual cases--the highest number in twenty years and more than the previous five years combined. Many of these cases were contracted by children whose parents had refused to vaccinate them, out of a fear that doing so would cause developmental problems. And now in 2017 we have President Donald Trump, a man who is not only the most prominent and media-savvy fear-monger in the English-speaking world but also a dedicated, unabashed, very loud purveyor of myths about the dangers of vaccines.
...Trump has frequently promoted his views on Twitter, in a number of his characteristic modes: brash certainty ("Massive combined inoculations to small children is the cause for big increase in autism..."), cartoonish storytelling ("Healthy young child goes to doctor, gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines, doesn't feel good and changes--AUTISM. Many such cases!"), shameless slander ("I am being proven right about massive vaccinations--the doctors lied").
It is at the very least wearying to have to refute these claims. Diagnoses of autism have indeed increased dramatically in the past thirty years. But there is not and never has been an autism "epidemic." Nearly every reputable social scientist who has examined the data has concluded that the rise in diagnoses has mainly to do with the use of a "broader autism phenotype"--that is, we have progressively and radically expanded our understanding of what "autism" means. No child receives "ten or twenty" shots at a time. If a pediatrician is adhering to the CDC's Recommended Immunization Schedule, as most do, then the most shots a child will receive in a single doctor's visit is five. Usually it is lower. These shots are not even remotely "massive." Most contain less than one milliliter of fluid. That's four thousandths of a cup.
But now that he is vested with all the powers of the chief executive, Trump's ignorance and exaggerations could have far-reaching consequences. Since the late 1990s, anti-vaccination activists have sought allies in positions of high political power. They have been largely unsuccessful. In Trump, however, they have an obvious, even an enthusiastic, champion. In November, it was reported that Trump met over the summer with Wakefield and three other anti-vaccination activists. The activists gave Trump a copy of Vaxxed, a documentary Wakefield produced and directed, and pleaded with him to support their cause. They say he pledged to do so.
Vaccine conspiracy theorist RFK, Jr., has been asked by Trump to chair a presidential commission on "vaccine safety and scientific integrity." Because the states have the power to decide which shots a kid needs to enroll in school, Trump has limited power to do damage to public health with this commission. However, Smith explains: "But his real power as president is his ability to amplify and broadcast skepticism and fear--to sow widespread doubt about the credibility of scientific fact."
But consider this.
Crid at February 17, 2017 5:12 AM
Another reason why the Department of Education needs to be abolished...
Cousin Dave at February 17, 2017 6:14 AM
Amy's replacing her Muslim Derangement Syndrome with Trump Derangement Syndrome is sort of refreshing.
I'm sure there will be no end to the journalist manufactured outrages to link to for the next eight years.
If there has ever been a threat to *real science* from the government the climate change hysteria would certainly qualify, but the food pyramid and bogus dietary studies for the last 60 years would be running a close second.
Isab at February 17, 2017 6:19 AM
People as a whole are rather stupid, occasionally many have to die to relearn what what quite obvious.
But most of those people are morons, or in the case of vaccines children of moron, most likey to grow up and be morons themselves.
I cant bring myself to feel sorry for them
lujlp at February 17, 2017 6:21 AM
Amy's take on this is unassailable.
For some reason, you guys now want everything to be about the Man. The moonbarking lunacy of his policies is not a factor for you. (This affirms suspicions that it's mostly about identifying with a TV star etc., having the fight you want to have had in seventh grade, no matter what issues are actually on the table.)
But this is just fundamentally fucked up behavior on Trump's part. Cowardly ignorance of this kind gets people killed and maimed, and for no reason greater than his illiterate ego.
Those horrors can rest comfortably on your conscience, however obliviously you might choose to carry them. I, Amy, and a few million others immune to your Adoration of All Things Orange need not be bothered...
...I mean, we might get INFECTED, but it will be your fault, and deductively demonstrated as such, and not our fault.
How goddam bright do you have to be?
Crid at February 17, 2017 6:59 AM
"But this is just fundamentally fucked up behavior on Trump's part. Cowardly ignorance of this kind gets people killed and maimed, and for no reason greater than his illiterate ego."
Based on the amount of fake news about the Trump administration that has come out, I would like to wait a few weeks to see if this story is even true.
After that we can worry about whether it has any real policy ramifications. My guess is not.
It would be hard to fuck up US policy on literally *anything* worse than Obama has already done.
Maybe a better way to combat communicable diseases is to have the feds get a handle on the unvaccinated people who are active carriers of TB and measles among other things, who seem to be coming into our country illegally or at the ill advised and hasty invitation of a federal government trying to mitigate the refugee crisis created by Obama's deliberate, and incredibly inept middle eastern policies?
Isab at February 17, 2017 7:41 AM
Trump is a long complainer about vaccines. But it doesn't look like he is actually going to do anything about them. The guy has a nutty idea he isn't going to do anything about. So what? It what way is that different from the last ten jokers to run that office. Obama had tons of nutty ideas that caused far more damage. Perfect wasn't an option. It never is. You compare against your other options and past examples. In that context Trump doesn't look that bad.
Ben at February 17, 2017 7:53 AM
> It would be hard to fuck up US
> policy on literally *anything*
> worse than Obama has already done.
You are horrifically mistaken.
We're taking now about infectious disease. Microbes.
The clarity, discipline and respect the United States has shown in such matters has arguably been the greatest contribution our nation has made to the human enterprise... Because our leadership has blessed people around the globe, whether they believe in capitalism or not, whether they believe in modernity or not.
The dorkless goofball has no appreciation for this miracle. He'll quite happily throw it away to make a few more reservations at Trump Suites™ in Chisinau.
And apparently, his many shameless fanboys on this blog and elsewhere are similarly oblivious in their adoration of him: They won't even know what's been lost.
Until their grandchildren get sick, I mean.
Don't fuck with infectious disease and ask me to 'wait and see what happens.'
Crid at February 17, 2017 8:35 AM
> In that context Trump doesn't
> look that bad.
Ever taste hemlock?
Want to?
Crid at February 17, 2017 8:36 AM
Measels isn't really spread by illegals. TB on the other hand is.
It's spread by international (asian usually) tourists visiting places like Disneyland. Californians being dumb as fuck in this regard, and having some of the highest unvaccinated rates in the country decide hey! LET ME TAKE MY UNVACCINATED KIDS to an amusement park full of people from all over the world that are also unvaccinated and then oopsie I just spread that shit to the rest of the country and to Mexico. My bad.
"The Mexico IHR National Focal Point reported 2 imported cases of measles with history of travel to the United States. The first case is a 22-month-old female from Baja California Sur, Mexico (rash onset 30 December 2014) with history of travel to California from 16 to 18 December 2014. The second case is a 37-year-old, unvaccinated female from Nueva León state (rash onset 13 January 2015), whose only history of recent travel was to San Francisco, California from 26 to 31 December 2014. Local and national authorities have implemented appropriate prevention and control measures. So far, no further cases have been registered in Mexico."
http://www.who.int/csr/don/13-february-2015-measles/en/
Ppen at February 17, 2017 9:04 AM
2015: The United States experienced a large, multi-state measles outbreak linked to an amusement park in California. The outbreak likely started from a traveler who became infected overseas with measles, then visited the amusement park while infectious; however, no source was identified. Analysis by CDC scientists showed that the measles virus type in this outbreak (B3) was identical to the virus type that caused the large measles outbreak in the Philippines in 2014
2011: Most of the cases that were brought to the U.S. in 2011 came from France. For more information see Measles — United States, January-May 20, 2011.
https://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html
Ppen at February 17, 2017 9:08 AM
Wow! Who knew the president of United States had the power to stop vaccinations and stop screening immigrants to see that they have them? It's just amazing!
Tomorrow's story? "Trump has ties to big Pharma, needs to push vaccination." Or maybe, "Trump has ties to big Pharma, needs disease to increase profits".
Anything at all to sell fear.
Radwaste at February 17, 2017 9:51 AM
About "know-nothing certainty": there is no better example of this than the mass-media-informed citizenry. Ask anyone who thinks they saw evidence in the OJ trial. They think they did, when all they did was watch television. Nope.
Or you could pick another topic. AGW, autism, the cause of Alzheimer's, the risks of communism… racism and national origin. Evolution. Arguing is so much more satisfying than research.
Radwaste at February 17, 2017 9:57 AM
Raddy, that's just repellent twaddle. You're on the worst possible footing to affirm that it's Trump's opponents, or merely America's attentive high-school science students, who are "selling fear."
Jesus Fuck, you people are deluded.
Crid at February 17, 2017 10:12 AM
What are you so concerned about Crid? According to you he is going to be impeached in a few months. Doesn't that resolve your problems?
Ben at February 17, 2017 10:29 AM
Mumps: http://www.espn.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/33596/tracking-down-where-the-nhl-mumps-outbreak-started
Wow! Who knew the president of United States had the power to stop vaccinations and stop screening immigrants to see that they have them?
Well, he has a phone and a pen, so...
I R A Darth Aggie at February 17, 2017 11:07 AM
Predictions aren't what my life is about. Nor can I imagine that you should be taking them so seriously in any case. I suppose I should be as flattered, as I was a few months ago when Raddy was considering me for the presidency.
But that's the thing about being president. Whatever you say is going to be talked about. We thought Jenny McCarthy was a problem?
this has the potential to be much, much worse. That people such as yourselves are so off-hand about it is precisely the problem.
Crid at February 17, 2017 12:03 PM
I noticed that Robert De Niro has joined Trump, Jenny McCarthy and others in the dumbbell brigade — offering a handsome reward for anyone "who can prove vaccines are safe," or some such.
Kevin at February 17, 2017 1:58 PM
I'm still willing to support you for president Crid. But no armed insurrections just yet, ok?
Trump says a bunch of crap. No one pays serious attention to it. Who doesn't vaccinate their kids? Democrats almost entirely. There are a few religious nut jobs but 90% of the anti-vaxers are democrats. You are worried about democrats taking direction from Trump? Cause I can assure you republicans in the heartland aren't paying any attention to this.
Ben at February 17, 2017 2:00 PM
I like the part where Hillary isn't pertinent any more.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at February 17, 2017 3:25 PM
Take a look at the demographics that DONT vaccinate again Ben.
Its not 90% liberal. It's closer to 60/40 and slowly turning more 50/50. Libertarians are composing a larger shift into the anti vaccine movement.
"A middle age, Midwestern man with high-school diploma, low income and a tendency not to think his vote matters much: this is the identity of the average American anti-vaxxer, according to a survey run by real-time consumer insight firm CivicScience. The report assessed participants’ perception of general vaccine safety, safety of childhood vaccines (measles, mumps, rubella) compared to other vaccines (tetanus, flu, shingles), and whether they would allow healthy unvaccinated kids to attend school regularly."
It's really only in California that the average anti-vaxxer is an educated suburban affluent white liberal.
Ppen at February 17, 2017 3:26 PM
https://qz.com/355398/the-average-anti-vaxxer-is-probably-not-who-you-think-she-is/
Ppen at February 17, 2017 3:27 PM
It's really only in California that the average anti-vaxxer is an educated suburban affluent white liberal.
Ppen at February 17, 2017 3:26 PM
It is hard to distingusih the anti vax nut cases by their politics. I doubt that there is a clear divide into left and right.
I wonder how many of those claimed middle aged white guy anti vaxers are also the same ones bitching about their circumcision.
Every family I know of, it is the mother's fears and values that dictate whether a kid will be vaccinated or not.
It really is a circle not a line, with conspricy theory fanatics congregating together in the middle of the curve at the far reaches of both political spectrums.
It is my sincere belief that Hillary Clinton lost the election because she forgot that those mid western democratic labor union people she was counting on were also NRA members, coal miners, and evangelical Christians. Bernie pushed her left during the primaries, and in order not to lose the socialists, that is where she had to stay.
I am very pro vaccination, and in my mind there is no scientific case to be made for not vaccinating a healthy person. There are exceptions to the general rule however, and I prefer that the parents be the ones making that decision and not some federal or state paper pusher. On the flip side, vaccination is not some magic bullet. Different vaccines have different levels of effectiveness, and vaccinated people can still catch the disease they are vaccinated for. What vaccinations do tend to do is prevent epidemics.
My father's cousin lost three chidren in one week to polio a couple of years before I was born. The early fifties were a scary scary time. That is the kind of object lesson about vaccination that these modern morons can't even conceive of.
Isab at February 17, 2017 4:57 PM
Crid, If you don't think that popular media has been peddling nonsense since WAY before this president was elected, you're just willfully jamming your head in the sand.
I know it's because you like to feel you're correct. Everybody does.
I get that you hate the man, and making that clear wasn't even cause to use your full vocabulary, but if there is one thing you should repeat to yourself when you look at the American political landscape, it should be this: "this is the effect, not the cause". This is only because there is a time delay between the two. Because politics is "business as usual," nobody makes the distinction in time. In their defense it is difficult to tell the difference between the scandals of yesterday and the scandals of today.
Every tidbit of what you think was knowledge, displayed by professional "news" organizations – or repeated by your favorite comedian – is "sharpened" to gather more viewers.
Radwaste at February 17, 2017 6:10 PM
Ppen,
Remove the people who don't care for the HPV vaccine from those results. Yes, anti-vax is still 90% left wing democrats. HPV is a midwest red state thing. But it really isn't that big of a deal. At least compared to mumps or other commonly vaccinated diseases.
Also, look at where people actually get waivers for vaccine refusal. Not people who complain to a survey they don't fully trust vaccines. You are talking about California, Oregon, and Washington. That is the heart of the anti-vax movement. The piece you quoted is a perfect example of fake news.
Ben at February 17, 2017 6:38 PM
Isab wrote:
My father's cousin lost three chidren in one week to polio a couple of years before I was born. The early fifties were a scary scary time. That is the kind of object lesson about vaccination that these modern morons can't even conceive of.
Very well said.
Kevin at February 17, 2017 7:25 PM
"Remove the people who don't care for the HPV vaccine from those results"
They specifically asked which vaccines they were against. HPV wasn't mentioned by the respondents.
"The piece you quoted is a perfect example of fake news."
Only because it goes against your own pre-conceived idea of what the average anti-vaxxer is like.
"Also, look at where people actually get waivers for vaccine refusal. You are talking about California, Oregon, and Washington."
Good thing the CDC has been tracking that:
"Parents are the least likely to have their children vaccinated in Wyoming, where 72.8% of young children have received the DTaP immunizations. Maine leads the nation with a vaccination rate among children of 93.1%."
http://247wallst.com/special-report/2016/08/22/states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-vaccination-rates/
This isn't a left/right view. People believe that vaccinations cause autism. Why? Because we have gotten too good at NOT dying.
I think the only real way to kill the anti-vaxx movement is a good old 1950's style epidemic.
Ppen at February 17, 2017 9:38 PM
> If you don't think that popular
> media has been peddling nonsense
> since WAY before this president
> was elected
Ahhh, there we go. You —and perhaps others in our darling little online cadre— have a personal emotional identification with this well-known figure. This seemingly teenage adoration locates a new point on the Justin Bieber/Donny Osmond sexlove continuum, suggesting that the Boomer generation's reprehensible marketing fealties will continue to infect ever-more realms of social enterprise until the famously incompetent cohort is dead. (Dead, dead, dead.) Like this:
> I get that you hate
> the man
For fuck's SAKE, child... I wouldn't bother. It would be like hating JR Ewwing or Wile E. Coyote. He's a weasel of a TV star, Raddy! I can't understand what kind of life you've lead that you could invest your own ego into such a transparently unimportant figure. The problem is not my "hatred"... I reserve that for truly malevolent figures in public affairs: The John Yoos, the David Addingtons, the occasional Elliot Abrahms.
Maybe you were lonely, and maybe you spent the first decade of this century watching shitty TV shows. But watching "Apprentice" shouldn't convince you that you've seen the full fury of masterful bureaucratic connivance. Jesus Christ, it's like they gave 12-year-olds the vote, and now they want James Bond to be President.
The irony of that comparison is insufficient: You've actually elected Donald Trump to be President. And now, in the blossoming flower of your adulthood, you're chastising people you've never met for "hating the man."
Infantilism of this magnitude defies rebuff.
Crid at February 17, 2017 10:39 PM
This is whack:
> Trump says a bunch of crap. No
> one pays serious attention to it.
It's just a goofy thing for you to say. It's got this smugness, this presumption that 'We all know what the real deal is, Man...' when it's entirely obvious that everyone on the planet is listening with different ears. THE PRESIDENT OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO RESIST YOUR PRESUMPTIONS OF FRATBOY BROTHERHOOD. That ought not be a tremendous outreach of understanding for him.
A few weeks ago, Frum make this point on KCRW's LRC show: For a President, words ARE deeds.
When he says he's thinking about diminishing his commitment to NATO (as he did while merely the President-elect), he's essentially kneecapped the alliance. Putin is emboldened, and our partners are spazzed. It's masturbatorially gratifying to annoy such players.
Nonetheless, the remaining adults in DC are required to clean up the mess.
Crid at February 18, 2017 2:29 AM
Why should I believe you Crid. As you pointed out predictions (which you often make) aren't your thing. Why should this prediction be considered any less hysterical than the last?
As for NATO, Obama already kneecapped that. As for Putin, Obama already emboldened that. As for our partners spazzing . . . gee once again nothing new. Wake me up when you have something newer than 5 years ago to report. I'm not going to get worked up over business as usual.
Ben at February 18, 2017 7:20 AM
Ordinarily there would be no concern over a president having a mixed or ignorant view of science. But this is Donald Trump, whose every utterance must be scrutinized for the minutest evidence of his unsuitability for higher office. As if no other president ever exhibited such deficiencies in education and knowledge.
Our history is full of presidents displaying ignorance of specific subjects, subjects on which his critics and opponents were certain hinged the fate of the civilized world.
Trump cannot really change American policy toward vaccinations, nor can he change local school board policies. What he can do, however, is use the bully pulpit to empower the anti-vaxxers, to give them a public policy forum in which to make their voices heard. And that in itself can be dangerous, as the anti-vaxxers have a loud enough voice already and way too much influence.
You can't defeat these people with science. Show them a study that proves that thimerosal in vaccines does not cause autism and they'll yell something about Big Pharma and a conspiracy and carry on their crusade. "Big Pharma" is their response to any information that contradicts what they know in their hearts to be true. Apparently every doctor in America is in on the conspiracy and a lackey of Big Pharma's serpentine reach.
The question to ask is, "is Barron vaccinated?"
Conan the Grammarian at February 18, 2017 7:39 AM
Conan, that was a great set of comments.
Crid at February 18, 2017 8:01 AM
Ppen,
I went to the CDC site where they actually track that data. For 2015 at least it doesn't match the numbers you quote. I've tried to get stats on vaccine refusal and vaccine exemptions but I'll admit this isn't easy to look up. From the CDC at least Alaska has the highest percentage of refusals followed by Washington, Nebraska, and then Main. When I look things up for Texas I find areas with virtually no people (city population of 100 and such) and Austin. As I said, religious nut jobs in the middle of nowhere and Democrats.
Looking for state based non-medical vaccine refusal I get one answer from Mother Jones (not a right wing source) and I get Oregon followed by Idaho and the Michigan. Source claims to be the CDC. I go to statnews (no clue as to their politics) and I get California followed by Michigan and then Florida. Though for a group called statnews you would think they would offer per capita numbers instead of raw ones. Same source, CDC. As I said above, I go to the CDC and I get a third answer.
In all of these cases the percentage are very low. And the variation from year to year is on a similar scale to the median value. Very noisy data.
I looked on the CDC about mumps outbreaks. They say colleges (foreign students) and one group of religious nutters in New York account for the majority of cases.
I looked on the CDC about measles outbreaks. 2015 it was unvaccinated Californians who went to Disney. 2014 it was the Amish and foreign visitors.
The view that vaccines cause autism is very much a left wing but more than that a pacific coast thing. Jenny McCarthy has been somewhat effective on her home turf. Elsewhere not so much. But I do agree that the viewpoint is spreading. There has been a big push over the last 5 years to include HPV objections with DTaP and other more serious vaccines. It is a clear attempt to obscure the left/right divide on this issue because HPV objections are almost entirely right wing religious groups.
That Trump is anti-vax doesn't surprise me. He is a New Yorker for gods sake. He probably voted for Obama if he bothered to vote. He was good friends with Hillary. Expecting him to be Ted Cruz is idiotic. He isn't a far right ideologue. And he doesn't have anywhere near the cult of personality that Obama had. Quite frankly he has less respect in right wing circles than GW Bush. How many 'crazy' tweets has he sent out so far? What does one more matter? Especially about something he has nil authority over.
Ben at February 18, 2017 8:10 AM
"The view that vaccines cause autism is very much a left wing but more than that a pacific coast thing"
"But really, political ideology didn’t have a large overall impact on vaccine denial in the study. The study found that the really big contributor to distrusting or disliking vaccines was not political ideology ideology at all, but rather, having a conspiratorial mindset, which can occur on both the left and the right."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/01/26/the-biggest-myth-about-vaccine-deniers-that-theyre-all-a-bunch-of-hippie-liberals/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.303125306eda
Ppen at February 18, 2017 10:12 AM
The numbers that website linked where from infants for 2014. I went to the CDC and Wyoming did have the lowest rate but has since shot up.
Why?
Apparently in some states parents just wait to fully vaccinate. I know that alot of the public now believes in waiting.
The 2015 outbreaks also caused a hike in vaccination rates. As I suspected only epidemics work at combating the anti-vax movement.
Do you see a left wing bent to this btw?
FIGURE. Estimated measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine (MMR) coverage among kindergartners — United States, 2014–15 and 2015–16 school year
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/wr/figures/m6539a3f.gif
Ppen at February 18, 2017 10:40 AM
I'm willing to concede apoliticality to you Ppen. The more I've looked into this the more it looks like anti-vax isn't a significant thing. State wide you are looking at 0.5% of the population or less. Sub 0.1% in many areas. In comparison people who don't object to vaccines but are just lazy and don't get them done in a timely manner appear to be 5-15% of the populace.
A part of our difference was I don't see waiting to vaccinate or being lazy about vaccinating as anti-vax. It isn't the same thing as McCarthy's or Trump's position.
And you wapo link is exactly what I complained about while also supporting my generalization.
1. They group autism anti-vaxers and HPV religious anti-vaxers into the same group. This is pure whitewashing. The two groups are acting for very different reasons and the risks those activities entail are vastly different. These are not the same thing.
2. Who did the wapo say were anti-vaxers? Left wing hippies and religious nutters (Amish and extreme orthodox Jews).
In Texas I still say it is those two groups who are the main anti-vaxers. But considering there are so many more people who just don't vaccinate in a timely manner it probably make more sense to focus on them than the few nut jobs.
Ben at February 18, 2017 12:57 PM
The numbers that website linked where from infants for 2014. I went to the CDC and Wyoming did have the lowest rate but has since shot up.
Why?
Very little human behavior can be traced to deeply held crazy beliefs. People do what is expedient.
I would guess a lot of it has to do with the policy of the public schools.
Wyoming has huge numbers of home schoolers and, the low population density makes that a very good thing for the tax payers, you want your kid on a bus for 90 minutes or more every day?
This is why statistical evidence for something needs a large sample size to be reliable.
When the home schoolers send their kids to public school for Jr. high or high school, they find out they have to have vaccinations, they get them then.
But no one should pay much attention to data from Wyoming.
With the total state population less than a third of the Denver metro area, it just doesn't yield meaningful numbers for comparison.
The state may have changed the criteria of entry into public schools so now people are having to show up with their kid's vaccination records. Could be any number of things.
Isab at February 18, 2017 1:12 PM
"Who did the wapo say were anti-vaxers? Left wing hippies and religious nutters (Amish and extreme orthodox Jews)."
No that's not exactly......what it said.....
It superficially looks like that's what is going on but when you dig deeper it seems everyone suffers from these nutjobs at about equal rates. All you have to do is look at the graph it provided and one of the papers it linked.
The piece was really asking why are there specific high income left wing areas in California that have so many anti-vax nutters if this belief is pretty spread out across the board politically?
The authors of one of the papers linked specifically looks at vaccines cause autism believers and also another group--- the anti-HPV crowd. He differentiates them.
He suggest vaccines advocates need to drop the anti-science trope...because believing in science or not believing in it has absolutely no effect on your beliefs about vaccines. Neither does religion. Belief in climate change. Belief in evolution. Belief in gun control.
Ppen at February 18, 2017 6:21 PM
Wyoming did have the lowest rate but has since shot up.
Why?
I'm guessing the winter play ground of CA liberals, Jackson WY
lujlp at February 18, 2017 8:46 PM
Ppen, that is what it said. The graph was their attempt at obscuring the issue. If they redid that graph not mixing HPV and autism fearers it would look as like you would expect. Surprise surprise when you average far far right with far far left you end up with a flat line. Fake news at it's finest.
To be clear Ppen, you've been mixing anti-vaxers with the lazy and confused. I'm all for most vaccines. I strongly support getting people vaccinated. But I probably count as one of those who's under 5 year olds aren't correctly vaccinated on the CDC's site. Quite frankly I can't figure out what the schedule really is. When I asked I got some pages stapled together full of if this version then that and maybe this or that. I'd need to diagram it out and somehow figure out exactly what they gave my kids. And then I get random calls from the doctor saying 'One of your children may need an appointment.' Gee. Thanks. Care to say which one and why? Now maybe Texas Childrens is really bad about this kind of thing. But the government through HIPPA and other laws forces them to be this obscure. I suspect Isab is right that Wyoming passed some administrative rule which cleared up the confusion and suddenly more people got vaccinated. Considering the relative population sizes (10-1000 lazy and confused to 1 anti-vaxer) we should be focusing on making things clearer and vaccines more available.
I will admit I learned something from all of this. Given all of the press and arguments I thought anti-vax was a significant portion of the population and a real problem. But if only little Barron and the Amish aren't vaccinated who really cares? It isn't enough to affect herd immunity. They may have some great propaganda but apparently anti-vax isn't real.
Ben at February 19, 2017 6:10 AM
" And now, in the blossoming flower of your adulthood, you're chastising people you've never met for "hating the man.""
Sigh. This is where your incontrovertibly superior command of prose has failed you, even as it introduces a layer of irony which is elegant and profound.
I'm chastising you for pretending to know people based on what you see on TV.
I don't think I know Mr. Trump personally, but several of your comments indicate that you think you do, and/or the things you have seen qualify as such.
That might actually be the case, but the press has been insulted by actually having been proven wrong, and they won't be silent about it.
Lots of people eat that up, though it's not a jot or tittle better than convicting OJ because of what one might see on TV.
The single most-wanted and controversial action the President has taken was the temporary immigrant ban. Its content cites existing US law, chapter and verse. It actually has precedent, having been invoked by several prior Presidents. Is that action part of your evaluation, or are you still "horrified" about mannerisms or the comment about women who let you grab them?
There's a difference out there, and some apparently can't see it. Some can.
Radwaste at February 19, 2017 8:23 AM
> Sigh.
This is the pretentiousness of the eighth-grader.
> I don't think I know Mr. Trump
> personally, but several of your
> comments indicate that you
> think you do
JESUS CHRIST WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?
No, you dorkless Nimrod, I DON'T KNOW HIM PERSONALLY. Why the fuck should I, or anyone on the planet, have to? I don't watch TV, I just take the money from it. Why should I have to know Trump or Secretary of Transportation Chao personally? Or Mattis or Gorsuch or Pence or ANY OF THEM????
Shit Fuck, son, you're the one so masturbatorily eager to imagine that you have a personal affinity to these people.
I've never had a personal affinity to any politician EVER. 57 years, zero "personal knowledge." (And I never needed any.) And that includes all the scientists and rock stars and novelists and other figures of public life. The whole point of our miraculous era of electronic communication is that we don't have to know people "personally"... We've been given what we need to know to judge them and their work WITHOUT personal insight.
Dude, I'm embarrassed for you. Try to understand how silly this makes you look. You've got his poster on your teenage bedroom wall. You think he's a total dreamboat, because you've watched him on The $500,000 Fuckface or whatever, and you were deeply entertained. Mostly you want to convince us that you've seen things about him that others haven't seen, even if you won't read the voluminous literature exposing the fraudulence of his business and personal finance.
Radwaste, this is pathetic. You're a goddamn grown man, He was never going to do more than spend your money in any case. Your cheerleading is pathological.
Crid at February 19, 2017 1:27 PM
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