"Believe All Women"? No. Believe In Due Process To Sort Things Out -- If They Are Sortable
We may not always be able to punish the guilty, but that is the cost of having a society where we take great care to avoid punishing the innocent, with laws supporting due process.
About the recent cry to "Believe All Women" (also stated as "Believe Women"), Bari Weiss writes in The New York Times:
I think that "believing all women" can rapidly be transmogrified into an ideological orthodoxy that will not serve women at all.If the past few weeks have shown us the unique horrors some women have faced, the answer to it can't be a stringent new solidarity that further limits the definition of womanhood and lumps our highly diverse experiences together simply based on our gender. I don't think that helps women. Or men.
I believe that the "believe all women" vision of feminism unintentionally fetishizes women. Women are no longer human and flawed. They are Truth personified. They are above reproach.
I believe that it's condescending to think that women and their claims can't stand up to interrogation and can't handle skepticism. I believe that facts serve feminists far better than faith. That due process is better than mob rule.
Maybe it will happen tomorrow or maybe next week or maybe next month. But the Duke lacrosse moment, the Rolling Stone moment, will come. A woman's accusation will turn out to be grossly exaggerated or flatly untrue. And if the governing principle of this movement is still an article of faith, many people will lose their religion. They will tear down all accusers as false prophets.
...What we owe all people, including women, is to listen to them and to respect them and to take them seriously. But we don't owe anyone our unthinking belief.
"Trust but verify" may not have the same ring as "believe all women." But it's a far better policy.
A comment from the NYT makes good points about where things are headed:
Tom, Ohio
What some of the "good" men are saying right now is that they have to be careful never to spend time alone with a female subordinate, particularly a younger one. They are resolving to be careful using informal language. They are indeed fearful that any friendliness might be misinterpreted as sexual harassment, or that a woman might use the threat of a sexual harassment allegation to obtain leverage over a supervisor.This is surely an overreaction, and things are likely to calm down, but the end product is still the same: Men will treat other men differently than they treat women in the workplace.
This will hurt women's careers, and it will be because "good" men fear the threat of a harassment complaint, and the difficulty of defending oneself in this climate. I fear that as we are helping women who are in situations where they face harassment, we are simultaneously hurting some women who are situations where they do not, by raising unnecessary barriers between them and their male colleagues and supervisors.
I don't regret the effect of the many revelations over the past week, as a reckoning was clearly overdue. But let's be careful to not take this to the point where "all men are bad" and "all women speak the truth." Neither is true, and women will suffer the consequences if we go too far. Relations between the sexes are far to complicated for easy solutions.
So,were the Scottsboro Boys guilty? Getting hard to follow this.
Richard Aubrey at November 29, 2017 5:58 AM
The author's words. I would call them naive.
I don't think that helps women. Or men. ...
"believe all women" vision of feminism unintentionally fetishizes women ...
They will tear down all accusers as false prophets.
It's not supposed to help men. It isn't unintentional. And they don't care if a given accuser is torn down as a liar, so long as the greater movement gains more power. You gotta break some eggs to make an omelette.
Tom writes:
Shhhh! Don't let them hear such hateful, misogynist rhetoric!
Remember when the MFM laughed and pointed at Pence's rule of not putting himself in potentially compromising positions? Wonder if Matt Lauer is reconsidering the wisdom of such a rule?
I R A Darth Aggie at November 29, 2017 7:03 AM
He went for the gold.
Crid at November 29, 2017 7:45 AM
No details yet on WTF Matt's "sexually inappropriate behavior" was? Did he ask her out for coffee and blinis in Sochi? Did he put a friendly hand on her shoulder or give her an affectionate peck on the cheek? I want details before believing this one.
mpetrie98 at November 29, 2017 9:14 AM
Is this going on in other nations - y'know, places where there's really something to do other than whine?
Because babies cry like this. You're simply not equal, and you never will be, until you can stand on your own.
As in Hollywood, everyone but the professed "victim" must take action.
Radwaste at November 29, 2017 9:31 AM
And I've just seen a headline that Garrison Keillor has been fired from Minnesota Public Radio for inappropriate behavior. Even Keillor, FFS!! This revolution has truly started eating its own.
bkmale at November 29, 2017 10:26 AM
bkmale, as they say, life comes at you fast.
https://twitter.com/JimmyPrinceton/status/935923029539999746/photo/1
I R A Darth Aggie at November 29, 2017 11:33 AM
"Trust but verify" may not have the same ring as "believe all women." But it's a far better policy.
Agreed. It reminds me of the child-sex panic of the 1980s that led to cases like the McMartin debacle. That said, I believe most of the cases of sexual harassment I've read about so far.
Kevin at November 29, 2017 12:25 PM
Latest Uber driver sexual assault complaint:
I have no idea what the real numbers are.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at November 29, 2017 12:45 PM
" I want details "
Here ya go.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at November 29, 2017 1:43 PM
> This revolution has truly started
> eating its own.
Indeed: Kellor'd canned sixteen hours after publishing this defense of Franken in the WaPo.
Glorious.
I admired Kellor for 20 minutes in 1985... The first book had some amusing passages. But I never liked those wheezing monologues or that hideous radio program.
Crid at November 29, 2017 2:58 PM
And, along with that NPR editor, that makes three scalps in one short day.
It ain't over.
Still don't understand why this is dragging on for weeks.
Crid at November 29, 2017 3:00 PM
And they'repulling down his statues, so to speak.
Crid at November 29, 2017 3:05 PM
Shoulda been clearer: I don't like Garrison Keillor's politics. That doesn't mean he should be railroaded.
This WaPo story makes it seem like an overblown sitch.
Crid at November 29, 2017 5:56 PM
More Keillor from WaPo.
Seriously starting to think the guy's being railroaded. Welcome persuasion either way.
Crid at November 29, 2017 9:29 PM
This always seemed incredibly disingenuous to me.
Feminists are, by and large, women who spend a lot of time with...women.
And anyone spending more than 6 hours with women who is not on a first date will find that they...lie.
They lie about their careers
They lie about their money
They lie about their relationships
They lie about that thing that they were supposedly doing just to get out of doing that thing that was incredibly important to you...yeah...THAT thing.
They will like to protect people
They will lie to hurt people.
So how Feminists were not laughed off the stage when they actually tried to sell this meme...is just staggering exercise in lying to themselves by women.
And that they haven't been laughed off the stage since Duke, Rolling Stone, Mattress Girl, Scottsboro...
That is frankly delusional.
Women aren't evil. But they are not Seraphs, angelic beings gifted with Divine Truth.
There is a reason only something like 10% of women identify as Feminists.
FIDO at November 30, 2017 1:29 AM
It is perhaps useful to look back on crime and punishment in historical times. During witch hysteria in the US and Europe, there was no due process, because of course there is no such thing as witch-craft, so one can't be guilty. Women (mostly) were sent to their deaths by other women who had a grudge or who were crazy or who stood to inherit money or steal their possessions. During the heyday of lynchings (mainly in the South), there was no due process. People also forget that more white (mostly men) were lynched than black. What we have now is rumor lynching--of jobs and reputations, but just as final as a real lynching.
As a side note, women need to accept a little responsibility. In cases NOT with the guy holding a gun on you, if you don't like what the guy is saying or doing, say so or leave the room or call a cab or quit the job. Claiming later that you were paralyzed by fear or he was too famous for you to say no is just BS, sorry.
cc at November 30, 2017 11:09 AM
"Glorious"
Maybe Garrison isn't in command of his faculties, because he sure didn't have a clue about why the election had gone that way.
Got a nominee for 2020?
Given the criminality of the Reagan years, I wonder just what level of thuggery in government actually makes difference on the street. Like inflation, small changes seem to pile up to push this or that public issue around.
Radwaste at November 30, 2017 4:25 PM
People also forget that more white (mostly men) were lynched than black.
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Um, source? Preferably more than one - and not obscure sources, please?
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As a side note, women need to accept a little responsibility. In cases NOT with the guy holding a gun on you, if you don't like what the guy is saying or doing, say so or leave the room or call a cab or quit the job. Claiming later that you were paralyzed by fear or he was too famous for you to say no is just BS, sorry.
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If he were twice your size, held you down, and threatened to wring your neck if you didn't "let" him rape you, would YOU be able to escape - or try to fight to the death? Didn't think so. Death is permanent, after all.
If there's no threat of violence and he's not your boss, that's different, of course.
And there's no shortage of men and women who simply can't afford to quit their jobs.
lenona at December 2, 2017 10:48 AM
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