Women Need To Take Responsibility And Say No, Not Expect Telepathy From Men
If you are a woman who is so emotionally frail that you cannot have agency -- control your behavior when in the presence of an unarmed person who wants something that you don't want -- you should not be allowed out unsupervised.
As in Victorian times, you should meet men in the family parlor, with supervision.
I wasn't always Ms. Badass. But I didn't blame my experiences where I was weak and let someone have power over me on that person; I decided that I needed to behave differently; be a different person: act in my own interests, even if I felt I wouldn't be liked or would be "uncool" for doing it.
And then I started doing that. It felt awkward and, frankly, pretty scary and awful at first. But then, over time, I became that person -- the person who stands up, who refuses to sell herself out.
(I explain how pathetic I was and how I transformed myself in my upcoming science-based book, Unf*ckology: A Field Guide to Living with Guts and Confidence.)
Getting back to the subject of this post, I was shocked by this story at a site called Babe.net, by Katie Way, about a woman who went on a date with comedian Aziz Ansari.
Headline of the piece:
I went on a date with Aziz Ansari. It turned into the worst night of my life
There was this:
The date didn't go as planned. The night would end with Grace in an Uber home, in tears, messaging her friends about how Ansari behaved. Babe spoke to the first friends she told about it, and reviewed the messages on her phone.The day after the incident, she wrote a long text to Ansari, saying: "I just want to take this moment to make you aware of [your] behavior and how uneasy it made me." To that message, Ansari responds: "Clearly, I misread things in the moment and I'm truly sorry."
The mobile phone number from which his texts to her were sent matches up with his details on a searchable public register.
Uh-oh. Sounds like we're about to have some other Hollywood sex criminal outed.
But...wait...actually, this is a different sort of story.
The date:
After arriving at his apartment in Manhattan on Monday evening, they exchanged small talk and drank wine. "It was white," she said. "I didn't get to choose and I prefer red, but it was white wine." Then Ansari walked her to Grand Banks, an Oyster bar onboard a historic wooden schooner on the Hudson River just a few blocks away.She said it was a beautiful, warm September night. They discussed NYU, comedy and a new, secret project he was working on, but she says she did most of the talking.
Grace says she sensed Ansari was eager for them to leave. "When the waiter came over he quickly asked for the check and he said like, 'Let's get off this boat.'" She recalls there was still wine in her glass and more left in the bottle he ordered. The abruptness surprised her. "Like, he got the check and then it was bada-boom, bada-bing, we're out of there."
More:
They walked the two blocks back to his apartment building, an exclusive address on TriBeCa's Franklin Street, where Taylor Swift has a place too. When they walked back in, she complimented his marble countertops. According to Grace, Ansari turned the compliment into an invitation."He said something along the lines of, 'How about you hop up and take a seat?'" Within moments, he was kissing her. "In a second, his hand was on my breast." Then he was undressing her, then he undressed himself. She remembers feeling uncomfortable at how quickly things escalated.
When Ansari told her he was going to grab a condom within minutes of their first kiss, Grace voiced her hesitation explicitly. "I said something like, 'Whoa, let's relax for a sec, let's chill.'" She says he then resumed kissing her, briefly performed oral sex on her, and asked her to do the same thing to him. She did, but not for long. "It was really quick. Everything was pretty much touched and done within ten minutes of hooking up, except for actual sex."
More:
Throughout the course of her short time in the apartment, she says she used verbal and non-verbal cues to indicate how uncomfortable and distressed she was. "Most of my discomfort was expressed in me pulling away and mumbling. I know that my hand stopped moving at some points," she said. "I stopped moving my lips and turned cold."Whether Ansari didn't notice Grace's reticence or knowingly ignored it is impossible for her to say. "I know I was physically giving off cues that I wasn't interested. I don't think that was noticed at all, or if it was, it was ignored."
Ansari wanted to have sex. She said she remembers him asking again and again, "Where do you want me to fuck you?" while she was still seated on the countertop. She says she found the question tough to answer because she says she didn't want to fuck him at all.
"I wasn't really even thinking of that, I didn't want to be engaged in that with him. But he kept asking, so I said, 'Next time.' And he goes, 'Oh, you mean second date?' and I go, 'Oh, yeah, sure,' and he goes, 'Well, if I poured you another glass of wine now, would it count as our second date?'" He then poured her a glass and handed it to her. She excused herself to the bathroom soon after.
As somebody tweeted:
@BassetBuck
Replying to @yashar
This woman never says he forced or threatened her, & admits to allowing & performing sexual acts. She was free to say no but never did. When she finally decided to leave, he allowed it. Where's the assault?
Another tweet:
@amurderofroses
Replying to @yashar
This is a bad date and she was free to leave his apartment at any time. They didn't have a work relationship. Nothing about this is #metoo worthy. This adult woman is responsible for her decision to engage in sex acts with him.
The apartment had a door.
There's a word: "No."
Another word: "Stop!"
If you don't stand up for what you want on some occasion, there's something you should do -- and no, it isn't putting another person on trial on social media. It's deciding to turn the experience into a learning experience and figure out what you'll do to stand up for your interests the next time around.
Tbh, when I read this
> She says Ansari began making a move on her that he repeated during their encounter. “The move he kept doing was taking his two fingers in a V-shape and putting them in my mouth, in my throat to wet his fingers, because the moment he’d stick his fingers in my throat he’d go straight for my vagina and try to finger me.” Grace called the move “the claw.”
my first thoughts were about "Get Smart"
jerry at January 14, 2018 1:27 AM
It was white wine, and I wanted red.
I felt so violated. I had to drink white wine. I was shamed and used. He raped me by serving me white wine!
When you're a guest in someone's home, you have what they're serving. Maybe it isn't your favorite, but as long as you can take it in without retching, you do so and politely. It's called manners.
Amy invited me to her home for dinner. She served expertly prepared pheasant under glass. I prefer rock Cornish hen. I didn't get to choose. I was violated,shamed and abused.
Amy, how could you? You raped me with your pheasant under glass!
Patrick at January 14, 2018 3:45 AM
Sounds to me like someone had a date with a famous celebrity; it didn't go as well as she hoped (and not the way she is describing it - maybe he was NOT into her!); so, she is making up a story to bad mouth the guy.
And, if the truth is closer to what I am suggesting; this kind of behavior is why some women are NOT believed when they claim "rape!"
charles at January 14, 2018 4:27 AM
I can't imagine how he could have missed those cues while she was sucking his dick. The poor thing.
Perhaps the world has sped past me but I seriously can't recall trading oral sex with anyone who wasn't interested in me.
Pablo at January 14, 2018 4:50 AM
> I felt so violated. I had
> to drink white wine.
Patrick, your sarcasm is misplaced.
Have you ever HAD white wine? It's hideous.
Crid at January 14, 2018 5:09 AM
Sorry, Crid, but I don't drink at all, so I wouldn't know. I didn't mean to offend your discriminating palette.
By white wine standards, it was probably a nice wine. If it was anything less than exquisite, this selfish, ungrateful, entitled bitch would have been all over it.
"He violated me by serving me moderately-priced wine!"
Patrick at January 14, 2018 5:39 AM
In fairness to her, it is very hard to say no with someone's cock in your mouth.
So I've heard.
Patrick at January 14, 2018 6:52 AM
Side note: If someone sticks their fingers in your throat, you gag.
Amy Alkon at January 14, 2018 7:18 AM
Yes, yes, it was a horrible experience. But now everyone knows that she had a date with Aziz Ansari!!! That makes her important, doesn't it!?! We are all paying attention to her, aren't we? Goal achieved. And she gets to play the victim card.
Carolynn at January 14, 2018 7:52 AM
Enthusiastic consent is the new standard for whether rape has occurred.
Snoopy at January 14, 2018 8:09 AM
I've been saying for years women need to stop assuming men can read minds. Also, I think Carolynn is spot-on in her assessment of the situation.
Daghain at January 14, 2018 8:41 AM
By the way, there's this notion that she said no -- just dropped in there at the top of the story. It is in no way reflected in the description of what happened.
If you say no, there's a reaction.
If she indeed said no, there would be a response from him.
None is mentioned.
The fact that you don't stand up for your interests does not make a guy guilty of sexual misconduct.
Also, those who don't deny biological sex differences and the psychological differences that ensue tend to understand that women evolved to be the choosier sex. It does not benefit a woman to just have sex with anyone because a single sex act could leave her with nine months of pregnancy plus the burden of parental care for years that follow. Males, however, can have sex and walk away -- in the human species and others. Trivers (parental investment theory) notes that the sex that has to do more parental care (as an outcome of having sex) will be choosier about whom they have sex with. In a few species, this is the male -- the jacana (a bird), for example. Mostly, females have the burden of pregnancy and parental care afterward.
If you are a guy, and you are gay, you can go to a gay bar and somebody is likely to be willing to fuck you in a bathroom stall and never see you again. There's a reason straight people can't do this -- guys would; women will not go along.
Men will generally want casual sex far more than women do. If you're a woman who wants a relationship, it's wise to not meet a man at his apartment on the first date and to decline when he invites you up there afterward.
If, perhaps, you are too excited about his celebrity to decline, that's on you.
If you are naive, this is also on you. I was a timid wimp. This meant I got taken advantage of -- badly. I decided to transform and worked very hard on myself to do it. Nobody takes advantage of me now -- nobody. At the very least, when somebody tries, I sure don't sit down for it. They at least are miserable, thanks to my efforts to not let them get away with it, in the wake of their trying to victimize me.
Amy Alkon at January 14, 2018 9:25 AM
Oh, you mumbled. And that didn't make it clear to him what you wanted?
I'm betting you didn't get that raise at work either. Blame the patriarchy and rape culture.
One wonders, if a few years ago, before #MeToo and Pervnado entered the popular culture, she would have bragged about a date with Ansari instead of crying about it.
Years ago, I knew a woman who proudly told me Jay Leno had hit on her at a comedy club. He was married then and she told me she said no to him. He backed off and she went home. No harm, no foul.
But, in doing so, she let the rest of us know she was hot enough to attract a nationally-known comedian and television star, so men had better appreciate her. She was also bat-shit crazy, so Leno may have dodged a bullet there.
Ansari clearly did not.
Conan the Grammarian at January 14, 2018 9:40 AM
Sex invokes all kinds of feelings. It is easy to get hurt emotionally if the other person isn't sensitive enough. So, what in the world are people thinking jumping into bed with someone on a first date? Or a stranger from a bar? Besides knocking you up, giving you an STD (yes, that happens), and him being bad at sex, you might fall for someone after sex who has no feelings for you. Sex is an incredible bonding agent--hormones go crazy. There is a reason for the old courtship rituals: so you can scope them out (are they serious, are they kind, dependable, do they love you, do you love them). Sex as recreation is a really stupid idea.
cc at January 14, 2018 10:41 AM
A couple of minor points to add: skilled over there does not equal skilled over here.
I know two men, one from Albania and another from Cuba, who were both physicians in their respective countries. They're not physicians here, with our differing standards. And while they're both working, they were both making greater contributions in their respective lands. If there is a way to put them on a fast track to bring them up to speed with the qualifying criteria to call yourself a doctor in the U.S., then neither one of them have availed themselves of it.
Which leads me to believe that there isn't one.
Still there must be some appeal to being an American that they didn't have as a Cuban or Albanian, and it must be significant for them to take such a serious step down in their careers.
Also, yes, taking in only skilled immigrants certainly makes sense. But I don't want to exclude the (admittedly hypothetical) unskilled person who is determined to make something of himself in the U.S.
There's got to be some people out there who buy into our narrative as the land of opportunity, who might not have significant skills to offer but will apply themselves once given the chance and have the drive to succeed.
Which is where the brochure comes in. I don't see anything wrong with soon-to-become naturalized citizens with a quick reference of resources that are available to all Americans regarding educational opportunities and funding to put them on a constructive path to becoming productive citizens.
Patrick at January 14, 2018 10:48 AM
I think you'll find we already do that.
And, this is the wrong thread. This one's about Ansari and regret.
Conan the Grammarian at January 14, 2018 10:51 AM
Whoops. Wrong thread. Amy, if you could delete my previous, please.
Patrick at January 14, 2018 10:52 AM
First, I totally agree with Carolynn's assessment: this is a woman simultaneously bragging about the man she attracted and playing the victim card. Hey, it's win-win. If you count putting a serious ding in the guy's career, then it's win-win-win. What's not to like, if you're an egoistic sociopath?
I also have to agree with cc, who asks "what in the world are people thinking jumping into bed with someone on a first date?" I've only ever had the, um, pleasure once. It was a woman with whom there was no second date. Sure, guys want sex. But no, generally speaking, we won't respect you in the morning.
However, the most important bit of this is What is it with women, who think men can read their minds? She let him undress her, have oral sex with her, she gave him a blowjob - and he's supposed to magically understand that she's not interested? From her very own description, at best any guy would think she's doing a poor and late job of playing hard-to-get.
To then take this public? What a bitch.
a_random_guy at January 14, 2018 12:09 PM
That's a whole cup of crazy right there. Avoid.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at January 14, 2018 12:27 PM
It's too bad that Amy's and Carolynn's reasonable views on this subject are going to be drowned out by the misandrist mob's hysteria.
We're beginning to see how far this will be taken -- all for the "protection" of women -- and it is pretty frightening for all concerned. Men are presumed monsters, and women are presumed pathetic retards.
There is only one remaining defense for men. Prior to any sexual contact, the female must be recorded BEGGING for sex -- with every permissible orifice and variation described in detail in advance. It is the new "Make a Bitch Beg" standard of consent.
Jay R at January 14, 2018 1:59 PM
> There is only one remaining defense for men. Prior
> to any sexual contact, the female must be recorded
> BEGGING for sex -- with every permissible orifice
> and variation described in detail in advance. It
> is the new "Make a Bitch Beg" standard of consent.
He didn't even wait for a written consent form!
Snoopy at January 14, 2018 2:12 PM
Prior to any sexual contact, the female must be recorded BEGGING for sex -- with every permissible orifice and variation described in detail in advance.
Not even the loudest consent is irrevocable.
dee nile at January 14, 2018 5:43 PM
Learning how to give a firm no and get out of a bad situation is an acquired skill. Unfortunately, young women who haven't acquired it yet are the ones most likely to need it.
NicoleK at January 15, 2018 6:30 AM
FFS, what is wrong with this woman? Maybe she needs to wear a button that says, "I don't use words, I rely on you being able to read my mind."
Hey you young gals out there (I'm an old broad myself), if you don't or can't tell him out loud what you want or don't want and he does something you don't like, that doesn't mean necessarily that you were sexually harassed. Plus, you can just walk out the door!
Robin at January 15, 2018 5:12 PM
Leave a comment