Ten years she burned with this guy? Ouch! At least she seems to have finally woken up - she didn't really need any advice, did she?

Great analysis, Amy. I'm new to this forum, and your column, but you're always so dead-on.

I guess it's like falling into any rut, and that's so true about the justifying. The longer she went, the dumber she felt, so the more she needed to justify there was a reason for staying. I did that in a long marriage, so I can relate, but it's kind of unusual to wait 10 yrs for a proposal.

This could've been me when I was in my 20's (except for the job thingy; I didn't make as much back then) - the guy I was seeing lived with mommy and daddy (who were both raging alcoholics as well), and while he did have job, kind of (he worked for the town), he was a serious waste of space. The reason I stayed involved with him for so long (brutal honesty here): he had a huge dick. The sex was fabulous. And that was all. He was a true bastard in every other way. Took me seven years to realize what an utter shit-bag he was. Long story short, he got someone else pregnant, I moved on. Sometimes a big dick is just that. o_O

My boyfriend of 10 years proposed on Christmas Eve. Excited, I said yes! [...] To cut to the point, I simply do not want him.

I know it's not the point of the OP, but has this conflict been resolved? Just curious.

So, what allowed me to stay so long and waste so much time trying to change him? Why did I work so hard to persuade others he was a great guy when, in my heart of hearts, I knew he was garbage?

Could be to do with the sunk-cost fallacy: "When one makes a hopeless investment, one sometimes reasons: I can’t stop now, otherwise what I’ve invested so far will be lost. This is true, of course, but irrelevant to whether one should continue to invest in the project. Everything one has invested is lost regardless. If there is no hope for success in the future from the investment, then the fact that one has already lost a bundle should lead one to the conclusion that the rational thing to do is to withdraw from the project."

There may also have been an element of "If I can get him to propose, then I can move on without losing face."

Spending 10 years on this project is excessive, but if you want a man friend, I don't think you should have too much trouble finding one. Just don't make the same mistake again!

I don't think the LW has the backbone to dump this guy. If she did, she would have done it already, and she wouldn't be writing for advice. Her question is basically, why am I so weak and have such low self-esteem?

My sad prediction for the future of the LW is marriage to the couch potato and the rest of her life spent trying the change him. I've seen it happen many times before.

I blame the marriage industry. She probably reads too many Bride magazines and believes in the happy endings in chick flicks.

Flynne, it's hard to compartmentalize emotions when you're young, and be able to see a FB for just that. You tend to try to turn everyone you have sex with into 'The ONE'. I've done it quite a few times too. The easiest way to keep emotions out of a FB arrangement is to have a few going at the same time.

Flynne,

You're cracking me up, but I can relate as well. The thing is, I think even the losers have good qualities, and women (especially) seem to make a big point at noticing all the "trying" instead of noticing the real results.

I really feel for this LW. Ten years is a long time. It's gonna take her a good, fat minute to unlearn the complacency she has acquired.

My recommendations to her are to stay very busy, possibly acquire an active hobby, and spend time with girlfriends. The worst mistake would be getting into another relationship too quickly.

That's too funny, Flynn. We can only hope the LW at least had that as a fringe benefit.

I think maybe she's asking how she gets out of this now, especially since she accepted the proposal. Obviously, she lacks the backbone to do it directly, so I suggest she start planning a HUGE wedding - cutting out pictures from "Bride" magazine and sticking them everywhere - talking incessantly about having kids and being a stay-at-home mom, while he finally gets a job. That oughta do it.

lovlysoul,

Best advice ever. Amy needs to watch out.

This sounds like someone I know, hmmm.....

I hope that you recommended the book 'Women who love to much' by Robin Norwood.

Agreed on the sunk-cost fallacy Norman--it's really sad when people continue to throw time, energy, and money into a hopeless void, simply because they've already invested tons of time, energy, and money into said void.

And Flynne, you almost made me laugh out loud at work!

I'm also curious to know if she already broke off the engagement. I hope so. The only thing to make this situation even more fun would be having to pay for a wedding on top of it.

...My friend married a guy fresh out of college, knowing full well he was a useless ass. 2 years later, he's still a useless ass AND they are--Ok, she--is paying off a $40,000 wedding!

Ouch, sofar, a $40K wedding?!? That's craziness in itself. And where do you work that you can't laugh out loud? Our CEO says if we're not having fun,we're not working right!

10 years? Hah! That's nothing. Try being a dumb ass for 16! Sticking with the guy I met in high school was retarded. Through my early 20's I figured that if he lived in a happier home (his parental home wasn't so great), he'd become a happier, more productive guy. Once we were married, I had this huge roadblock in my brain that I couldn't let my marriage fail. All the way to the ultimate retardation of having a baby to give him the "happy family" he pictured. I finally clued-in once the boy was born and things got worse instead of better. I could put up with a lot of shit myself, but refused to let our son believe that it was acceptable to treat people, including your SO, so horribly. To the outside world, I was this smart, successful, happy business woman...but a doormat at home. And he didn't even have a big dick!!

In retrospect, what he did have was the means for me to get out of the house the minute I graduated. He had a few thousand in inheritance to have his own apartment (which meant he didn't work either). When I started to grow up a bit though, I wasn't able to cut my losses and as suggested just kept throwing good time, money & self-respect after bad.

To me it sounds like the LW has come to a decision and will break things off -- good for her it only took a proposal to knock some sense into her and not a baby!

I sank nine years into a void of humanity. And his penis was very small. I feel robbed.

FF, you obviously already know the answer to your own question. I'd guess you're just looking for validation from the rest of us. YOU HAVE IT. End this engagement immediately then run away very, very fast. If ever the urge to return to this horrifying relationship comes over you just come up with a mental picture of the pair of you in another 10 years. Then mentally add the amount you're in debt for the wedding, the divorce, and everything in between.

Maybe I'm dense but I don't get what the heck about this whole scenario got the LW "excited"?

What got her "excited" was probably the idea that his proposal was a validation for all the years she had "invested" in him. I know, I know, it was a really bad investment, but it must have made her feel appreciated enough to blurt out a "yes" --- oops!

Now what? Easy -- implement those suggestions about the fancy wedding, a baby, and a job for him, only turn them into an ultimatum. If those aren't enough, take up smoking and forget to shower. Or become overly possessive, or cranky, or demanding -- the possibilities are endless.

But one way or another, GET OUT OF IT !!!

Quizzical ~~ Please look on the thread just before this one for a message from me -- it's a compliment!

As I mentioned a few weeks ago, I've been offline for a while but am now reconnected, thank goodness.

I've been catching up on reading the recent columns, and notice that there are several new posters who are very articulate and witty.

Just wanted to welcome them, and also note with pleasure the absence of several of the more contentious commenters who used to be very much on the scene.

All in all, it's great to be back!

I wonder if deep down the LW worries that this guy is the best she can do? I don't believe for a second that's the case but now that I think about it that's a thought I've had a time or two at the end of a relationship: what if I never meet anyone better? What if this guy was as good as its going to get for me? I think that's why some people "settle".

Holy crap, so depressed now.

Well, I think most of us do "settle" in a sense -- because nobody's perfect. The trick is to find someone whose inadequacies or quirks don't bother us and who isn't bothered by ours.

But I think the LW was comfortable enough in the relationship they had as long as it was going nowhere, but the thought of permanence woke her up. Too bad it took ten years.

The good news, though, is that her current age, late thirties, is a much better age to find a mate than the twenties because we are more aware of who we are and what we want. And we're still attractive enough to be choosy.

But, back to "settling" -- it's absolutely not necessary! Being trapped in a bad marriage is far worse than being lonely, as anyone who's been there can attest.

Loneliness can be easily overcome by making friends, joining clubs, churches, hobbies, etc., and unsuitable situations can be easily weeeded out, unlike a committed life partner.

Being single, free, independent and active is nothing to be depressed about!

Amy ~~ Your parting crack about the twist-tie ring and sharing the allowance from Mom was priceless -- another entry for the Amy Hall of Fame!

But I think the LW was comfortable enough in the relationship they had as long as it was going nowhere, but the thought of permanence woke her up.

Perceptive, Pussnboots!

Norman ~~ Thanks for the kind words -- or rather, word. It means a lot to me coming from you, whose observations are always perceptive and right on target.

Thanks for welcoming us newbies, pussnboots. You are very perceptive.

I also agree with catspajamas that it is so easy to settle. I remember thinking at the end of my marriage that I would probably never find anyone again. And the sad part is that often your friends and family will even scare you into that way of thinking. I had girlfriends who discouraged me, telling tales of woe about the single world, particularly for women nearing middle age. They'd utter silly phrases like, "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know".

Well, let me tell you, dear LW, that isn't true! There are lots of nice men out there, and probably, like me, after you've had such a loser, you'll appreciate them so much more.

I now have a GREAT boyfriend, who treats me extremely well, is loyal to me, works hard, knows how to cook (and clean), is fantastic in bed...and has a large penis! :-)

So, you can...and will...find the sort of relationship you deserve. Don't wait any longer.

Lovlysoul ~~ You are one of the standouts among the newbies!

Sorry not to give you credit for your ideas on how to dump this loser, but every time I scroll up to check something I lose what I've written down here in the Comments section -- so I couldn't refer to who made those great suggestions. Should have known it was you!

I'm really glad things turned out so well for you. Divorce is so devastating that it seems like the end of the world, but it often is just the beginning of a wonderful new life (which, as you pointed out, we appreciate even more because of what we've been through).

So, LW, take heart. Shed this guy and find one worthy of you. And please, PLEASE, let us know how it all turns out. Good luck!!

(blush)

Thanks, Pussnboots. Sorry, Norman.

I just wanted to add that I don't consider all the years I spent in a bad relationship wasted, and I hope the LW will try to view things in the same light.

I learned a lot from my brilliant, narcissitic ex - about business, life, how to cope with infidelity, how to be brave and finally find my voice, my independence. I became a businesswoman, raised two great kids, and grew up.

The way I view it is that I could've taken many different paths and still ended up exactly where I am. Likewise, the LW is still in her 30s, which is a time when a lot of people are still single (or becoming single again). She could've had this one relationship with a loser - or many other relationships with different losers - and still reached this same point: 30ish and single.

So, rather than dwell on the mistakes she made, she should be grateful for the ones she DIDN'T. After all, she wasn't foolish enough to have kids with him, which is an enormous blessing. She didn't let him derail her career. And now, she is smart enough not to marry him.

I tend to believe we end up where we need to be, and she is actually in a very advantagous place. Free, successful, independent, and single. All she has to do now is make the most of it.

I dated a ne'er-do-well for a little while. Okay, it was only three months and not for ten years, and I didn't know he was living with his parents until after we'd broken up. (He was from a small town and always visited the city where I live.)

I've never been interested in getting married or having kids, so I look for guys who treat me nicely and who I can have fun with - not necessarily guys who are good husband material. The slacker I dated was cute, funny, a great conversationalist, and like me was both a major bookworm and an avid cyclist. We had a good time together, and I didn't care in the least that he was on the, er, underemployed side. I make my own money and don't pay attention to anyone else's.

We broke up because his flakey behavior got irritating in other ways. For example, if you couldn't talk to your sweety because your cell phone battery was completely dead, wouldn't you either get a new battery or a new phone? Well, if you didn't even have $70 in your pocket, you might not. But then, if you didn't even have $70 in your pocket, you'd probably get a job. Plus this guy always had money to buy cigarettes, and ... you get the idea. It's hard to find someone attractive when you don't respect him, and it's hard to respect a guy who can't find his own ass with both hands.

But it is troubling that the LW suspected the guy of cheating on her. That makes me think that maybe they weren't even having that much fun. My point is just that things don't always have to be "forever" to still be a good time and not a waste.

Norman ~~ French maids for you, big dicks for us -- everybody gets happy here at Club Amy!!

Lovlysoul ~~ Well said.

Pirate Jo ~~ Good point. I guess it's just a matter of knowing when to let go.

What happened here is she grew up.
10 years ago did she have the nice car, house and job? Probably not. The fact he didn't , didn't matter. THEN.
Now she is close to 40 and thinking it is time to settle down traditionally but actually wants someone who has achieved on her level as well. If she didn't she would marry this guy. There are lots of house husbands raising the kids these days, nothing wrong with that.
She said she only suspected a drug problem and he may have cheated, she didnt say it was confirmed. Those are her justifications for leaving this 10 year relationship as she is looking for a way to detach from this guy so she can move on toward a guy who makes way more money and she is ashamed to admit, it in my book.

Here's my two cents on it: She knows what she needs to do, and I hope that she does. If she wants to understand her motiviations for sticking with such a loser, thats for her and a competent therapist to figure...in the meantime, may she move out and on with no qualms...Life is often shorter than We often take for granted...learn from your mistakes,then, move on-most mature and healthiest thing to do anyway...