What I don't understand about people like this: why does he believe he has more "knowledge of self and understanding of others" than anyone else? He needs to expand his self-knowledge to realize that he comes across as an arrogant twit. And that, in fact, he probably has no more insight than the next person.

There are numerous observations along the lines of "the more you learn, the less you know". Arrogant certainty of one's own wisdom is generally a sign of exactly the opposite...

Honesty and cruelty are not opposites. Being honest may mean being cruel - that's why "brutally honest" is a cliché.

Life is complex. I think you have simplified it, perhaps in an attempt to get a measure of control, perhaps for some other reason. But you have over-simplified it to the extent that you don't understand it and can't take part at a satisfactory level.

My advice would be to loosen up. Relax; stop beating up on yourself and everyone else with your high standards, because these standards are an invention and they are not doing you any good. If you want to scientific about it, look for another paradigm, 'cos yours - by your own admission - is broke.

Here's a piece of "logic" I jokingly use with myself when I forget where I parked my car in a large lot or ramp: Only two kinds of people forget where they've parked: geniuses and idiots. I can't be an idiot, so this is just further proof that I'm a genius!

I imagine this guy uses the same thinking, but without irony.

There are 10 kinds of people: those that understand binary, and those that don't.

A bit off topic but one of my favourites!

Insightfully Alone is more likely Blatantly Conceited. He's so full of himself, he can't see past his own damn nose, and so has pretty much no f'n concept of how other people feel and/or think.
My knowledge of self and understanding of others makes it hard for me to find a girlfriend.

This just makes me want to hurl.

don't want to add to their burden, so I find myself waiting for women to come on to me.

????? Seriously?? This "man" needs to take himself way less seriously.

Insightfully alone lacks insight! He doesn't even realize that by claiming to be conscious and having high standards, he is protecting himself from potential rejection. He follows this up by asking for coffee and lunch dates, and even by speaking of his attraction before the first date. If he would put his guard down and allow himself to be vulnerable, he may still get hurt, but he will learn about women and what he wants in one. He should be happy a woman he wants is attractive to other men. Does anyone really want some troll that nobody else finds desirable? The best part of being with someone is knowing what a catch you have found and that others agree. If he is so honest, he should start with himself. He is not open to a relationship because apparently there is only room for one and that is himself. When he makes room for more, he will have more success.

"I'm a 23-year-old man with high standards..."

I think I see the problem here. Fervent belief in the Flat Earth or Maoist communism is no longer a viable outlet for sexually frustrated, earnest young men, so you get this stuff.

Any guys, can you imagine being 23 again and getting no action? Lawd, it would be like wearing sandpaper underwear. Dude has it tough.

The LW reminds me of a child who thinks he knows everything but still can't get his underwear on the right way. But he won't admit that he can't figure it out, so he wears his underwear backward all day.

Dude, your inability to relate to women in even shallow ways proves that your "knowledge of self and understanding of others" is a fantasy. You understand very little about yourself or others.

Ah honesty. dude needs to be honest inside about his "honesty".

Most things that pass for honesty theses days are really just thoughts that should remain between the ears, private and alone. I am a blunt person when someone asks for advice or brings up an issue they are having trouble with but mostly I try to filter first. And wait for some form of request or relationship already built.

Oh and thanks amy for bringing up indirect speech. 40 yrs old this year, and i would guess it has been in the past 10 yrs that I finally figured that out. Made me giggle since most people that is something they just know, others dont. Need to be beat with it to grasp the concept that etchings may not be what is really being spoken of.

You're right, rsj. I think many people try to turn their complete disregard for the feelings of others into some kind of virtue. I think the LW needs to ask himself, "How does my 'honesty' improve things?" Good: Returning the wallet you found. Bad: Telling your girlfriend those jeans make her look like a moo. I notice that a lot of "brutally honest" people don't appreciate the virtue much when it is aimed at them.

So basically the guy's an asshole, but doesn't realize it because everyone's always been too polite to say "hey, you're being an asshole again".

I should count myself as lucky to have friends willing to tell me I'm an asshole.

This is so like my ex. He was the same "always have to be honesty even if it's cruel" kind of guy. Called himself "Arkenholtz" - a character from a play who told the truth no matter what the consequences.

Of course, his cruel "honesty" was always somewhat selective. Not necessarily, "I'm screwing somebody else behind your back", but "That girl over there is so hot I have fantasies about her...oh, what? I'm just being HONEST".

And the arrogance behind all of this is really a sign of a very controlling, insecure person. The LW can't have a healthy relationship because he'd have to admit some vulnerability...a lack of omnipotence...and that everything might not be all about him and what he thinks.

What's really amusing is at 23 this fellow has decided he has this extra perception lacking in other people. Some people are better at analyzing people than others, but its rarely a skill developed by 23 and purely self-professed. If enough people start to tell you you're good at it, maybe you've got a claim.

I'd agree that LW's belief that other people don't notice the same crap he does suggests he's either really arrogant or too insecure to make himself vulnerable. The truth is likely closer that other people notice the same stuff, but they have a shred of empathy that allows them to relate to being imperfect.

OMG!!! This guy is the perfect match for my boyfriend's ex. How I wish I could set them up. She blogs incessantly about how she's just "too honest and direct for this world," and how she can't keep a boyfriend because they can't handle her deep, tortured soul. "Too honest and direct" apparently includes having unsafe sex with her drug-addict trainwreck of an ex, then coming home and having unsafe sex with her current boyfriend before telling him. If that's honest, boy I'd hate to see her when she's deceitful!

Mmmmm.... Ho Hos. But, wait, what was the point? Oh, right. I have an ex friend (female) like this. She thought she was morally superior to everyone but is very much alone because she alienates people by being "open and honest," which translates to condescending and judgmental.

Ah, the tortured Nietschean soul. I'm guessing LW's superb insight may have less time to gestate once he's actually burdened by those mondane acoutrements of the hoi-poloi. Namely, a mortgage, responsbilities, and consideration towards others.

This is all about making him "special", setting himself apart. And the danger is that these types start believing that their "specialness" affords them certain rights, which fall outside the normal rules of society. They'll typically say societal rules and norms are just "too shallow" for them.

In fact, that's kind of what he's saying - rather than ask a girl out, like most guys would, he is really "too compassionate" (ie: "special") to adhere to such a normal relationship structure. Therefore, he has to do things differently...because to do them the same would make him common.

I'm willing to bet he also has a special diet or religion...maybe believes he has some unusual physical or "psychic" abilities that further set him apart and give him even more reason to feel superior.

Yet, deep down, he really feels inferior. He has to work hard at creating this "specialness." But he's pretty smart to wrap it all up in the guise of compassion for others when it's really pure self-absorption.

Yes, it's that very special kind of honesty: "Everyone else in the world is too stupid for me, so because of that I alone am condemmed by by superiority to a life of loneliness. Now, then, don't you feel unworthy?"

Insufferably Alone ~~ You're not a burden, you're just a blathering ass. Is that honest enough for you?

If you talk to your no-date dates in the same vein as is reflected in your letter, no wonder the more desirable girls are put off.

I think your reluctance to ask for a date comes from a fear of rejection, which at this point is no doubt well founded.

Think about it -- would you want to keep seeing a person who constantly reminds you how lucky you are to be granted time with such a superior being as she??

You need to get over yourself first of all, or at least keep your high opinion of yourself to YOURSELF. Then, stop criticizing others under the guise of "being honest." Tact trumps honesty every time -- those of us over 23 years old learned that a long time ago.

Once you have transformed yourself into somebody whose company is actually enjoyable, go ahead and ask out the good-looking women. As suggested above, drinks after work would be a good start. What's the worst thing that could happen, she says no? Okay, then it's no, but there are plenty more out there who would be willing (assuming, of course, that you keep yourself reasonably presentable and odor-free).

Most women want to date a guy who is interesting, entertaining, and fun to be with. If you could just lighten up a little and lose the conceit, YOU COULD BE THAT GUY !!

I get the feeling that the LW might not be a conceited jerk but instead he may have been hurt in the past and is putting up this facade of being all insightful and Yoda-like as a way to protect himself from being hurt again. Of course I could very well be wrong about that. I say that because of the fact that even though this coworker flat told him that she was going out to lunch with him purely out of friendship he did it anyway. He could have done because he thinks he can win her over with his dizzying insight or because he's hopeful sucker.

I get the feeling that the LW is an engineer.

I dunno -- I know a lot of engineers, and the ones who don't have social skills mostly *know* they don't. Of course, most of them are older and wiser than LW.

I believe it is important to be honest, however, not everything that is true needs to be said. Reads like the LW needs to learn to practice a little discretion and a lot of humility.

OMG. I think I dated this guy for a very short time ... only he was 30. He was so called "brutally honest". He was only telling me the things I needed to hear so I would be "good enough" for him and could "attempt to achieve" his level. See, he was "honest" enough with himself to say he was better than 99% of the population, so he had to mold his potential partner. He had no friends and had alienated everyone in his immediate family except his father. His excuse for not ever having a long term relationship and not dating much was that women only wanted him for his money or his body and he deserved more. Yeah right, he had money but his body was just average and after the first few dates his personality change made him very unattractive.

All I can think is, "Thank God he came for advice while he was still 23 and not 43." He's still in those years where he can screw up a bit, learn from it, and bounce back with minimal damage. In this case, he might be lucky that he's dated so little!

Oh, ya'll, lighten up. He's 23. I remember what a moron I was at that age. Weren't you? The difference is most of us have just enough sense to keep our superiority to ourselves. Mostly. Self doubt as to how clever we really are doesn't hit til we're in our 30's. So, give him a decade. Hope he listens to Amy's advice, but maybe he's one who has to learn the hard way. Like most of us.

Consciousness is a good thing, Grasshopper. Hopefully, as you get a little older, you'll mix in some wisdom. You'll find life a lot less difficult if you start taking yourself a lot less seriously.

And really, you "end up settling" for women that pursue you?? If some women are pursuing you its a good sign. Here's a tip: ask some women out WITHOUT telling them you're attracted - they'll realize right off that you must feel some level of attraction or you wouldn't be asking. If they're "burdened" by being hit on my droves of guys they'll decline. Don't let it bother you. Ask someone else out. Keep it light and don't scare 'em off right away with declarations of lust. I have a feeling there's a shyness issue here and its making you sound defensive and a little pompous.

As for honesty - its knowing when and how to be honest that's important. I remember reading something once - can't remember where, although for some reason the Buddhists come to mind - something like, "Before you say something ask yourself: is it the truth? could it help? can you say it without hurting someone?" The guideline was that if you couldn't answer 'yes' to all three questions it was generally best to keep quiet.

Donna, you are so SO right! Thinking back to my 23rd year on the planet: moronic in spades and no doubt insufferable. Gah! Makes me cringe thinking about it.

What a compliment! Supremely enlightened and self-aware, yet deferring to Amy's wisdom.

Yes indeed -- I sure hope Amy appreciates the honor.

snakeman99: I had to laugh when you said that his great insight would take a backseat once he got out into the Real World of Responsibility. Almost every friend I had who loved philosophizing and (for lack of a better phrase) "hippy tendencies" changed once they hit 25 or 26 and had to start worrying about credit ratings, rent, and a job that they couldn't quit.

And I think catspajamas hit the nail on the head. That comment covered everything, from the LW's shyness problem to some sound advice on how to go about it the next time.

"So basically the guy's an asshole, but doesn't realize it because everyone's always been too polite to say "hey, you're being an asshole again".

I should count myself as lucky to have friends willing to tell me I'm an asshole.

Posted by: brian at June 11, 2008 9:22 AM"

Consider it done !

Anyhoo, this choad needs to lighten up, pull his head out of his derriere and realize that his excrement stinks just as much as everyone else's.

He sounds a lot like those self proclaimed "nice guys" who have no looks, money and/or social skills, refuse to date a woman on their level, think they deserve a supermodel by virtue of their being, then whine that they can't get laid because they're "too nice".

I am the woman who would see thoughtful, nerdful types like this and pursue them. Thank you, LW for some insight into why this never went well.

Another anecdote about how girls pursuing guys doesn't work as well as the other way around. Even Mr. Super-Conscious sees it as "settling" rather than "relieving the burden" placed upon women by being hit on all the time. Whether he assumes these girls are desperate, easy, needy or something else I don't know, but unless he does the pursuing, he doesn't view them as worthy.

Speaking of which, I wonder how Jeff's experiment is going? I don't think its been 3 months yet though...and I can't say I really miss the lectures. Perhaps its going so well, he's too busy to report back!

Oooooo, just what every girl wants -- an arrogant, condescending asshole who equates "honesty" with vomiting up every stupid thing he thinks onto your shoes. Thank God this guy isn't getting laid; the last thing he needs to do is reproduce. Can you imagine him with kids?

Catspajamas mentioned the self test for things we say or do but did not know what it was called. It is called "Rotary's Self-Test ":

(1) Is it the truth?

(2) Is it fair to all concerned?

(3) Will it build good will and better friendships?

(4) Will it be beneficial to all concerned?

catspajamas - very interesting handle. You said -

"Buddhists come to mind - something like, 'Before you say something ask yourself: is it the truth? could it help? can you say it without hurting someone?' The guideline was that if you couldn't answer 'yes' to all three questions it was generally best to keep quiet."

Way before any Buddhists, a guy names Paul said this -

"Whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, speak of these things."

The Apostle Paul, in the book of Phillipians in the Bible. Pretty good criteria for thought content.

Moreta ~~ I for one hope Jeff never remembers to report back to us. It's been so peaceful around here lately -- all those combative guys must have found some other website to disrupt, and we have several new contributors who add insight and humor to the already abundant supply -- personally, I'm in blog heaven!

Marie E and jonathan: thanks for the info! Still don't know where I read it but no matter . I guess it boils down to, "If you can't say anything nice ... " Maybe Jeff has embraced that concept? I don't think the 3 months is up yet but wouldn't it be great if he'd been transformed by the love of a good woman? Could happen.

As for catspajamas: its the title of a Ray Bradbury book and honestly, I just like the mental picture.

Jonathan - I haven't checked so I may be wrong, but I think you'll find that the Buddhists pre-date Paul by several centuries. They also formulated the Golden Rule subsequently attributed to Jesus. I'm not sure any of Jesus's teachings were original (Though he may have rediscovered them. If he actually existed.)

Norman, I found in my research that Jonathan was correct in who said those words. I specifically tried to find them in Buddhism and it kept bring me back to Apostle Paul.

In addition, although I too attribute the Golden Rule to Jesus, If we go on research alone, it is said that the Traditional African religions had the rule before the Buddhist. It went something like:

"One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts."

These concepts likely predate the written word. It seems people need to rediscover that wisdom every generation.

From the Rotary International website:

The Four-Way Test

In 1932, Rotarian Herbert J. Taylor created The Four-Way Test, a code of ethics adopted by Rotary 11 years later. The test, which has been translated into more than 100 languages, asks the following questions:

Interestingly, Rotary is a secular organisation.

Marie - I wasn't questioning the specific words but the meaning. Wikipedia has an article on "the ethic of reciprocity."

As far as Paul and Jesus go, you don't need to look further than the bible itself. Leviticus 19:18 tells us to "love your neighbour as yourself" - and Leviticus surely predates Jesus!

Norman, have you ever read the book 'Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal' by Christopher Moore? A very funny book, which takes a whimsical look at the childhood life Jesus might have lived, and digs at some of those pesky questions about how he might have learned some of those teachings. I've probably bought this book five times now, because every time I loan it out it never comes back.

http://www.amazon.com/Lamb-Gospel-According-Christs-Childhood/dp/0380813815/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213371722&sr=8-1

PJ - No, I haven't seen that one. I can answer one question it asks though: the "H" in "Jesus H Christ" stands for "Haploid." (I wish I was clever enough to come up with things like that.)

Wow, this site gets more interesting every day! You guys have me scurrying around checking all my online dictionaries just trying to keep up -- I love it!

Pirate Jo, I definitely will get that book -- thanks!

Norman, now that I think I get the Haploid reference, I find it very apt and funny. Still working on the binary joke, although I think I get that one too. Being one of the zeroes, I can't be sure.

Catspajamas, on a much less intellectual level, I can only offer that the phrase "the cat's pajamas" was used in the 1920's as a term of admiration, along with "the bee's knees." The current equivalent among many adults is "great" and among the younger crowd is "amazing." Ray Bradley isn't old enough to have used this term himself, nor am I (not quite).

I'll bet our insightful, much too deep LW is feeling a bit out of his league if he's reading this. Hopefully, he'll see that there are a lot of highly concious people in the world besides himself, and that being so doesn't give him or anyone the right to be cruel. There are always tactful ways to be honest. To take the blunt, brutal approach is a sign of insecurity, not "knowledge of self and understanding of others".

Oops -- I meant Ray Bradbury.

Haploid. Yup, had to look that up!

Pussnboots, isn't Ray Bradbury in his 80s? You're probably right about the 20s, though - the term has got kind of a Bertie Wooster-ish feel to it. My grandmother, who would have been 90 about now, used to say, "All dressed up like a dog's breakfast", which could be a positive or a negative, depending on the tone of voice.

lovlysoul: "I'll bet our insightful, much too deep LW is feeling a bit out of his league if he's reading this." Hopefully, in a decade or three, he'll be wiser and truly enlightened, and posting on Advice Goddess like this erudite crew.

Catspajamas ~~ Ray Bradbury is 88 -- I just looked him up. So I guess he could actually have used that expression in his childhood -- he would have been 10 in 1930. I read him so long ago that I figured he was even older.

I thought you had taken your moniker for the same reason I took mine -- because you were a fellow cat-lover. After using mine for a while, though, I remembered that the Puss in Boots of the fairy tale was male (I'm not). Not much erudition here!

Well, its hard not to love cats. Had cats for 23 years (had 4 for several years) but the last one died in 2006 and I can't quite bring myself to get another. Miss the affection, but not the hair.

Always thought Puss in Boots should have been female. That cat always had a strongly-developed feminine side.

Yes, he did, but not much in the way of ethics. But then, cats don't have to abide by the rules of us mere mortals.

Up until about 10 years ago I always had cats, but don't right now. My husband and I travel quite a bit, and it wouldn't be fair to have any pets. So I get my kitty-fix by volunteering at our local shelter, brushing and cuddling the feline population. Now the cat-hairs are confined to my clothing, rather being all over the house.

Rewarding as it is, it's no substitute for sleeping with a soft, purring ball of love nestled in the crook of my arm!

For some reason I'm reminded of this article.

Favorite excerpts:

"I consider myself a philosophe engagé — a philosopher who gets involved...For instance, I think I helped to persuade Jacques Chirac to bomb the Serb positions around Sarajevo and thus stop a massacre."

"I’ll let you into a secret: I never, never eat at home. I know it’s odd, but I find the idea of eating at home repugnant...The only time I would serve food at home would be if I had to meet someone as discreetly as possible. That happens once a year at most, and even then I don’t eat."

"I wrote (a book about America) because I thought that for a European intellectual there was nothing more important than to understand what was happening in America, to go and tell the Americans what was wrong with their society."

Interesting article, and it has a similar feel to the LWs letter - the self-importance and self-involvement are there, but Levy's account is tempered with humour. He's aware of his flaws and can sometimes poke fun at himself. I really like this:

"Despite our jobs, my wife and I see a lot of each other. I’m sure she’d like to see more of me, though. She’s more generous and less self-centred than me."

I'm guessing living with such a man would be interesting, but you'd have to be pretty comfortable in your own skin.

Steve, was it just me or after the first line could you also not shake the image of Fraser and Niles Crane trying to one-up each other on the intellectual snob level?

catspajamas and pussnboots, stop! Please I'm begging you. I'm catless for the last decade or so and still occassionally suffer withdrawal symptoms. You're making me feel them now.

Growing up, my mother a farm girl, could not comprehend having less than two cats -- a male and female, and had no notion of the responsible thing being getting them fixed. When I got my first apartment, getting a cat wasn't even a yes or no question anymore than getting a couch was. I had that beast (and she was a beautiful New York bitch of a beast who beat up dogs and scared off a burglar or two) 18 1/2 years. Took in a stray couple of years later but the stray liked to roam from family to family and moved on and frankly the black cat stereotype (yes, she acted like the ones in the movies, except with me and somehow knew not to go there with my daughter) ruined me for all others.

And, no, all the pics, knick knacks, etc I have of cats big and small (I have a fondness for the wild cats too) do not fill the void of one curling up on your lap in the evening or your shoulder at night purring contentedly. When I saw the movie "Single White Female" at the theater the second they showed that supposedly murdered gay friend of hers in the tub with the cat curled up on his shoulder purring in his ear, I about leaped out of my chair exclaiming he's alive because I knew no cat would be like that on a cold stiff body.

I don't want the responsibility any more and my grandson's allergic but that doesn't mean that I don't miss the critters!

Sorry, Donna! Of course we only remember the best parts. My cats were more like Simon's Cat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0ffwDYo00Q

I watch this whenever I feel myself weakening.

Cats,
I agree that BHL comes off as less insufferable than the letterer and that his article is quite funny--sometimes even intentionally. BHL seems self-important and comically oblivious to it. Insightfully Alone seems passive-aggressive and entitled.

Donna,
I can see how you'd picture Fraser and Niles Crane, but no, I picture a specific Anthropology professor from college who kept trying to write himself into the texts his class was using, despite not having been mentioned by the authors.

Dang it, catspajamas, that had me laughing out loud (good thing I'm usually alone in my office) and detoured me watching more of them. Hilarious. Maybe my cat wasn't so psycho after all. Of course, I woke up during the beginning tactics.

My biggest problems was when she was a kitten and I had just started working for a living and had one of those old-fashioned alarm clocks with the horrible ringers that did indeed get your ass out of bed. She would wake me up five minutes before it went off weekdays so she wouldn't have to hear it. I appreciated that since her meowing in my face and patting my cheek was way gentler. The problem was she didn't know the dang thing wouldn't go off on my days off and wouldn't stop even when I kept tossing her off the bed until the hand on the clock moved past where it would have been to go off! Yeah, right, cats can't tell time but it does beg the question why she couldn't learn from weekends.

LOL, Steve! Why should he let a little thing like that stop him?

I picture Truman Capote.

Steve and Donna ~~ The Truman Capote remark of course referred to the Levy quotes -- it got separated by Donna's post.

Catspajamas and Donna ~~ that video was priceless! There were some other good ones there as well. The one about the cat demanding to come in forgot to mention that two minutes later he wanted to go right back out again!

Luckily I've had only one cat with the habit of waking me up. If she thought it was getting too late she'd jump on the bureau and knock over my knick-knacks until I started yelling at her, and of course by then I was too mad to go back to sleep. She had no respect for weekends either.

Still, she was my best pal for eighteen years -- she had to be right in the middle of whatever I was doing, she comforted me when I was upset, AND she even taught ME to play fetch with her!!

Obviously he was not raised where getting punched in the nose for being a self-involved jerk was common. His loss, in the long run.

*barf* What a letter-writin' tool.

I will just share the most vital ones now.

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Reading this post reminds me of my previous room mate! He always kept talking about this.
I will forward this write-up to him. Pretty sure he will have a good read.
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