The thing I like about Amy's advice is that it is probably the opposite of what he LW's female friends have been telling her.

I think she should try a simple test, one that I performed years ago on a guy when I realized I was the one making all the effort to keep the "relationship" going: stop calling him or contacting him in any way. The silence you receive in return is the only answer you'll need.

I have sympathy for the letter writer - it's easy to get sucked into swallowing way more shit like this than you would if you could look at the situation from the outside. If the times that they are together are as wonderful as she says, then her patience with this guy is occasionally rewarded with being completely loved up. The rest of the time he's an asshole, but he might be lovely just often enough to keep her trying.

It's basically operant conditioning with an irregular reward. If this guy was an asshole all the time, she'd be out of it by now. But because he is occasionally very lovely, it's much harder to cut it off, because *this* time might be the time he is really lovely.

Good advice. I hope she takes it to heart.

IQ above freezing? Is that Fahrenheit (32)? or Centigrade (0)?

Way to give it to her, Amy. She needed a brutal awakening. Yeah, it's nice to have a hot boytoy who gives breathtaking sex. But if he's going to make lame excuses for standing her up (when he's probably got it going on with this hot chick who's closer to his age), he's either just a fuck-buddy (therefore uncommitted and not needing to make excuses), or he's history.

Why don't people pay attention to the signs EARLY in the relationship and break it off the presence of deal-breakers? The longer you let this stuff go on, the worse it's going to be.

Some time ago, I met this guy, great body, comfortable to be with and a passable intellect. Then after our first week of seeing each other, one night, he was supposed to call and didn't. Bad news. I called him the next morning, in case something had happened.

He explained that he was "under the weather." Meaning what I think it means?

"You're not feeling well?" I asked.

He explained he was hung over. Thanks for the honesty, that's the deal ender.

He said he would call later that evening and didn't. Strike three. I called him, got his answering machine, and said good-bye.

The point being is that I got it over with early. Yes, I was disappointed, but not devastated. Good thing, too. Because almost immediately after, I met a terrific guy. Sweet as anything (I have to fight him over the dinner check), treats me like gold...and about as intellectually inclined as a houseplant, but I love him to death.

This LW is reminding me of a book I started lending to every woman who came to me with 'this guy is so great SOMETIMES' called 'The Complete Assholes Guide to Handling Chicks'. I read it for laughs but my girlfriends are so surprised to recognize exes and current disasters that seem to have also read this book and taken it as their bible. Among other things, there is a chapter about that 'girlfriend' that you generally neglect but keep moderatly happy with good sex while scoring on all of her hot friends when she's not looking. Listen to Amy and DROP THIS ASSWIPE. He doesn't care enough about you to change up the lies; that's not just hurtful, it's lazy!

You've discovered your inner cougar, cool, but ditch your inner doormat and go score a young hottie who adores you and doesn't use you as a layway station on his road to other shit.

There is NOTHING a man can do for you that you can't do for yourself. As soon as LW learns this, her standards will dictate that the man she dates must complement her life. Anything less is a waste of time.

Once a man I met was supposed to pick me up for a date. When he was more than 5 minutes late, I took off. I didn't have anything to do, but I wasn't available for him either. I think I got in the car and drove around for a while until I found something to amuse myself. He got the message.

Once a man I met was supposed to pick me up for a date. When he was more than 5 minutes late, I took off. I didn't have anything to do, but I wasn't available for him either. I think I got in the car and drove around for a while until I found something to amuse myself. He got the message.

That message being: this is one unmerciful, inflexible, passive-aggressive bitch.

Well, that's the message I would have got.

Ever hear of a phone? "Hey, running a little late..."

"The truth is, I am turning 40 soon, and I guess he makes me feel young."

And I guess he is sport-fucking a cougar and chuckling to his buddies about it, while feeding the LW another line.

Yes, guys do things that, ladies.

"When he was more than 5 minutes late, ..."

300 seconds. (eyeroll)

To play devil's advocate - he could just be an immature flake, and a compulsive liar. But it does seem more likely that he's playing her.

Something that I've noticed, is that guys who get into relationships w/ much older women are often immature. That's obviously a generalization, but I think that the women I've known who've tried this would confirm my observation.

The whole cougar thing usually seems to be a matching between an insecure older woman and some loser who's looking for a surrogate mother. You'll often see something similar with girls that date much older men.

Cougars present younger guys an attractive option relative to younger gals in some way. Younger women are, generally speaking, in greater demand than middle-aged women, so competition to get and keep attention of younger women is often keener. Accordingly, younger gals often expect more regarding commitment to marriage, eventual children and ongoing financial support.

Older gals are often relatively less concerned about marriage, children and financial support. They usually have had the first two, if they wanted it, and are less demanding when it comes to the third, since they sometimes have their own.

Young guys are usually so horny they will nail almost anything. So the sexual release offered by willing, enthusiastic, reasonably attractive middle-aged women coupled with less demands on the young man's time and money is a pretty attractive mix to guys.

The trouble comes when the middle-aged gal wants to hang out with the young man and his mates, or go home to meet boy toy's parents, or move in with him, etc. In short, so long as the cougar doesn't think of the relationship as, well, a relationship, it can be a decent arrangement for both parties.

The young guys rarely start moonily talking about their future with her. In fact, she is typically the subject of much snickering talk among the guy's buddies, who all want to hear what degrading things the gal agreed to do this week. Her sexuality becomes a good laugh for the young guys, who will know *everything* about her. (Contrast this to most guys' reticence to discuss with others their wives or serious girlfriends' sexual behavior.)

The older gals I know who cougared up, by contrast, invariably start off making noises about how they are in it for the fun. They take a pose of poise and confidence that they have this one under control.

Too often, though, the fling ends with them outside the young guy's house at 3 am, crying, demanding to know why they cannot see him *right now*, and screaming that she has a right to know who is inside with him. Picking up the pieces of your middle-aged friend after she pulled that scene is a fucking nightmare.

MY GOD you are on the money, Amy. Where the hell were you when I was in counseling with my ex?

"The silence you receive in return is the only answer you'll need."

Boy, ain't that the truth.

Guys who are into you either show up on time or call to say they will be late. They also call when they say they will. If a guy doesn't do those things, he's either not into you or such a social clod that he isn't worth the bother.

A guy who IS into you, on the other hand, you won't hardly be able to get rid of.

Don't chase this asshole. It's demeaning. If it makes you feel younger, it's because it reminds you of when you were 19 and had no self-esteem. I hope someone hits me over the head if I'm 40 years old and still haven't learned the lessons I should have learned back then.

"She is typically the subject of much snickering talk among the guy's buddies, who all want to hear what degrading things the gal agreed to do this week."

On which planet? It's been my experience that the older people get, if they're psychologically healthy, the more in touch they get with their sexuality, and more comfortable with doing kinky things that they might have been too self-conscious to try before. So, it's far more likely that the cougar is inveigling the young bloke into doing "degrading" things. Now granted, if he's really insecure, he might feel the need to phrase it as, "And then I totally tricked her into tying me up and doing me with a strap-on" but really. Who is more likely to be a pervert, a sexually confident lady in her 40s or a kid just out of college?

I've said this already, but it bears repeating: Desperation is NOT pretty. And guys who are players/users can smell it a mile away. I swear, they hone in on that shit. LW needs to run far, and run fast. Work on your own issues, honey, before you let someone else work on 'em for you.

Who is more likely to be a pervert, a sexually confident lady in her 40s or a kid just out of college?

A kid out of college.

Was that a serious question?

The fact that you associate degradation with 'getting in touch with you sexuality' suggests that your perspective may be a little skewed.

I've always wondered this. Whenever people brag about being in touch with their sexuality, or sexually liberated, they demonstrate this by getting peed on, or engaging in some other abusive behavior. Why is that?

"On which planet?"

This one. Guys swap stories about sexual partners they don't intend to keep around as long term mates. Being buddies with hundreds of post-pubescent gay and straight men for a few decades taught me that.

"So, it's far more likely that the cougar is inveigling the young bloke into doing "degrading" things. "

No, it isn't. Women, especially ones about to hit menopause, aren't usually the one in a relationship setting up web cams and asking partners to do things that typically cost hundreds of dollars an hour if you can even find a willing prostitute.

"Who is more likely to be a pervert, a sexually confident lady in her 40s or a kid just out of college?"

ha ha ha ha ha. Funny.

If I'm going to run 20 minutes late, sure, I'll call and say, "I'm running a little late, I should be there at such & such time." But 5 minutes, yeah, I'm with the passive aggressive bitch line. Anything under 10 minutes merits only an explanation on arrival, "sorry, left the house a little late, got caught at a red light"

Come now, 5 minutes and then he's supposed to call in and genuflect?

Hell 5 minutes can be a watch being a little fast and not be noticeable.

Punctuality is an American obsession, but there's no reason to be psycho about it.

"If I'm going to run 20 minutes late, sure, I'll call and say, "I'm running a little late, I should be there at such & such time." But 5 minutes, yeah, I'm with the passive aggressive bitch line. Anything under 10 minutes merits only an explanation on arrival, "sorry, left the house a little late, got caught at a red light" "

Agreed. I mean, what did people do before cell phones? 20 years ago there'd have been no way of letting someone know you're running 5 minutes late. It's just not necessary. And playing mind games like driving around the block is just pathetic- it screams high-maintenance brat.

I agree that five minutes is extreme. It's one thing to make a fool of yourself, trying too hard for a guy who isn't very interested in you. But spazzing out and leaving the house after five minutes is trying too hard to say, 'I DON'T NEED YOU!!!' It just says you've been treated like crap too much and have come to expect it, and now have a hair trigger. Also that you've been sitting there obsessively watching the clock, just waiting for him to be five minutes late so you can chop his head off. I don't even notice a guy is late unless it's been at least 20 minutes, maybe because I'm actually busy and have better things to do, instead of just bitchily trying to LOOK like I have better things to do.

This is hardly a cougar situation. This guy isn't 19 years old, he's 29. Way too old to be just thoughtless. He's a player and the LW is the yo-yo. What is WRONG with people?? Can she not see/hear/smell the shit?

Oh, and yeah, 5 minutes late shouldn't be an issue. I think Pirate Jo nailed that one.

Anyway, the rest of the story...

Mister '5 minutes late' had done this before including standing me up. It turns out he was a half hour late that day and complained that I wasn't there. I admit that passive-aggressiveness is not mature behavior on my part, but I had had it. I was a complete doormat in my 20's. So, yeah, Pirate Jo's post nailed it. But I've gotten much better about avoiding useless relationships. I think to break out of a bad habit, you have to try some things. I certainly didn't break Mister's heart.

Well good for you, TheHag! If Mister '5 minutes late' was a repeat offender, I think I probably would have done the same thing. I was a doormat in my 20s too, and I also eventually learned not to hesitate to dump these kinds of bastards when it was called for. (However, they're not all bastards, and you have to remember that.)

Some 'scoring/player-type' men just want to get laid, and if you're holding out for someone who really gives a shit about you, you're going to have to do this kind of thing once in a while. Even if you don't break their hearts, it certainly sends a well-deserved message that they're going to have to do a lot better job of faking it, if they're expecting any booty. So at least we can pat ourselves on the back for teaching an evolutionary lesson when it is desperately deserved. Now I feel like I was cracking on you too much. Sounds like this wasn't exactly last week or anything.

The 5 minutes isn't the issue. Its overall how someone treats you. And I think most women can agree that in our 20's we were doormats. In fact, I didn't really learn until my early 30's, but I did learn, and Amy is right. We have to learn to forgive ourselves and do better. The LW needs to understand that she isn't the love of his life or even close. She is someone he has a good time with and good sex with, but that's about it. Sometimes people can date casually or be friends with benefits and actually be respectful too! She needs to move on and decide if she's looking for a casual affair or something more meaningful. But first she needs to get to know herself.

and if you attract good guys, you'll spurn them.

and this is one reason you get a lot of 'good' guys who snap and figure that they've got to behave like assholes to get women. But by then the women they're dating have often matured and the cycle repeats itself, but the roles are switched.

"A guy who IS into you, on the other hand, you won't hardly be able to get rid of."

TRUTH.

"I was a doormat in my 20s too,

Me, too. My next book (the one I'm starting to write) details it at the beginning, and how I crawled out of it. Basically, if you're not "fixed" to a degree when you get involved with somebody, you'll probably only attract creeps, and if you attract good guys, you'll spurn them.

I didn't just get all bright and shiny and dignity-brandishing in a short time, by the way; it was a back and forth process, and you have to forgive yourself if you mess up and just do better the next day or next time. "

(In my best Annie Potts voice) "Applause, Applause, Applause!"

This post soooo made my day! :)

THANKS!

women in their 20s are doormats?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH....breath....HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

i guess back when you were a young women things must have been different than now

in all fairness, i'm sure in your heart of hearts you probably believe it. But given that everything is relative; the young men with their tongues hanging out, chasing your mini-skirted tails around town and buying you dinners and putting up with your expectations of what "real men"tm are supposed to be, might just have a stronger case for being the doormat in the relationship

Deep down he knows, you don't love him.

He makes you feel young. You love the sex.
He's a tool for you.

Intuitively, he knows it. He wants to stay committed to the relationship but he's confused.

Intuitively he knows you don't love him, but him hanging on shows he feels desperate to deny it, while searching for ways to prove you DO love him; meanwhile his little voice aka intuition is telling him the truth.

Your language is entirely self-centered: He makes ME feel good, he makes ME feel special, he makes ME feel good in bed, he makes ME feel young, he tells ME I'm the BEST.

It's absolutely, positively about YOU. Intuitively, he knows it.

The days he doesn't answer are days he's whirling it all around in his head, and doesn't know what to say to you.

You end it with "does HE just need to grow up"? Quite self-absorbed.

Cowardice can only lead to failure. Bravery sometimes leads to failure, but at least you can look back and say you were brave. Getting hurt is not the worst thing that can ever happen to you. You just have to get back up, check your helmet for cracks, and then figure out how to ride home on a taco'd front wheel.

Actually, these aren't good guys, but guys who are wimps but call themselves good guys. Robert Glover details the type in his very good book, No More Mr Nice Guy.

C'mon Amy, that's big leap. The book that you linked is about men who are totally cowed by women. I'm talking about guys who get fed-up and assume that women will only fall for assholes. But that doesn't mean that they behave like assholes. I think that its more the case that they become the type that women accuse of having a 'fear of commitment'.

The LW is looking at this situation all wrong. Instead of lamenting his lack of "commitment" she should be reveling in his attention when he's around. She's not the only one having great sex. Men don't keep going back to women who are 10 years older than them because they want to get laid.

Once, sure. In a drunken stupor, sure. If he's shit faced every time he shows up, then she's got a much bigger problem than being stood up when he's sober.

She's got a fuck buddy. She should enjoy it while it lasts.

I agree, Amy.

This:
"he rarely answers the phone when I call"
"has stood me up numerous times"
and then:
"he'll call after a couple of days" - (a couple of DAYS???)
"and either say he was in the hospital or someone died" - (now that's just plain rude)

makes this:
"He swears he's in love, can't live without me, says I'm the best woman he's ever been with" - complete and utter bullshit.

"Once a man I met was supposed to pick me up for a date. When he was more than 5 minutes late, I took off. ... He got the message."

That "message" being that you're a horrible person? You did him a favor.

I was once 12 minutes late for a date. She wasn't there, so I stood waiting, assuming (completely reasonably) that she was just late too. I heard nothing from her and couldn't get hold of her, so after about an hour I assumed either I'd been stood up or something bad had happened to her. Her "explanation"? She had waited for 10 minutes for me, then stormed off.

I'd forgotten about this until I read your message, yet suddenly I'm glad I dodged a relationship with that girl.

Regarding the LW: If the sex is even half as good for him as it is for you, then you've probably still got *something* that many other more decent younger men will still desire - find someone better.

"Mister '5 minutes late' had done this before including standing me up. It turns out he was a half hour late that day and complained that I wasn't there."

Well that's an important bit of context you might've included in the first recounting of the story.

in my case, I had no such 'history', and I'd never just stand somebody up without notice.

"Men don't keep going back to women who are 10 years older than them because they want to get laid."

Um, yeah they do. Even a lousy lay for a guy is better than no sex. And if Tuesday has nothing good on TV, and there is no one else to call...

Did she say anything about him?

No.

All of her language centers around what he does for HER, what the relationship does for HER ego regarding feeling young.

The fact that nearly every woman here looks at a letter that's written in blatantly self-centered language, and concludes.."he's a jerk", is quite telling of the typical woman's outlook on a relationship.

I'll assume all of you will be in and out of relationships the rest of your life, lamenting and sobbing that it's the men's fault for leaving and disregarding your own self-absorbed habits.

Wrong, Dicky. I'm calling it just like it is. The guy is a player. Many are not, but this one is.
BTW, I waited for the right fit and couldn't be happier. I assume, like you are assuming, that many men who are trying to fit this guy into the good guy category are lamenting and sobbing about all the horrible things women have done to you.

Wrong, Dicky. I'm calling it just like it is. The guy is a player. Many are not, but this one is.
BTW, I waited for the right fit and couldn't be happier. I assume, like you are assuming, that many men who are trying to fit this guy into the good guy category are lamenting and sobbing about all the horrible things women have done to you.

He's not a player he's a little toy for an older woman to amuse herself with and feed her ego with.

Like most modern women, her language is all me me me. Like most modern women, the majority of women here have COMPLETELY overlooked her self-centered language and went right to attacking the younger man.

The women's viewpoints on this one are so far off track it's glaringly clear their motives are 100% gender competitive nonsense.

Woman is selfish, man convinces himself she's not and she must love him, sits on the fence trying to decide to keep or dump the relationship.

Every day occurrence in this lovely feminist society we live in that floods men's heads with "it's your fault, not the woman's fault"...(see above comments from women hahahah shining example)

Shame shame shame on you little girl's heads. Go sit in the corner and think about what you've done. And no cake for you.

*laughs* "Feminist?" Ricky must be new to this blog!

Melissa says: "*laughs* "Feminist?" Ricky must be new to this blog!"

Yep new..only been reading Amy for about two years :D

Yes feminist; the blame-the-guy attitude on this particular piece is quite similar to feminist attitudes.

Women who are anti-feminist are vulnerable to the same bias as feminists, nothing new.

On many occasions I've agreed with Amy but obviously I won't agree with every thing she says or believes. Nor her with me.

That said, I've recommended Amy to many people and sites as a "fair and balanced woman who takes on misandric/sexist feminists with a no-backdown attitude".

I don't agree with her on this one or with most of you either, I see a substantial lack of discernment hinging on gender-competitive attitudes.

And a hint of projecting by people who have failed in past relationships, see similarities in this LW's relationship, and want to control the idea that 'it was his fault my last relationship failed' by dumping that idea on someone else.

Can I getta amen. And a dollar for the cause. Happy 4th to all and make the check out to Ronny Jones.

Ricky, her language is "all me" because I had to edit her letter down, as I write an advice column, not a weekly novel.

The woman's issue is that she has low self-esteem and she behaves accordingly.

A guy who never shows and says he was in the hospital or somebody died is an ASSHOLE and cruel. A woman who does the same thing would be an ASSHOLE and cruel as well.

Let me make that perfectly clear for those of you who have turned victim feminism into an inter-gender thing (men can be whiny victims, too!): If the genders here were reversed, the advice would be the same. It's not about women and men, it's about a person who thinks so little of themself (using the "them" on purpose) that that person puts up with just about anything from the person they're seeing.

P.S. If you want to see feminists, I believe some blog has 11 pages about what a horrible person I am because I said men in this culture generally don't go for fat women, and that isn't because they're bad people but because they're men and that's male sexuality, hard-wired.

Toy. Being used. Immature woman. Using younger man.

By the way I'm actually a fat girl. I'm boycotting your site now.

Power to the chubby!

If the non-asshole happens to read this site per chance: Move on buddy there are plenty of women out there who don't define how good a relationship is by "me me me".

Take it from a guy (I mean fat girl) who's already been through his 20's and learned to sort the self-centered from the sincere.

Or keep walking the fence and repressing and fetch a babe on the side to fill the void.

Keep the user on the side maybe she'll buy you cool things to keep you around. Win-win.

Peace and carrots.

Too often, though, the fling ends with them outside the young guy's house at 3 am, crying, demanding to know why they cannot see him *right now*, and screaming that she has a right to know who is inside with him. Picking up the pieces of your middle-aged friend after she pulled that scene is a fucking nightmare.

Posted by: Spartee

Sound like your freinds the ne with the problem, not the guy

Dump him you stupid woman. You're an exotic dish to him, like doing an Asian chick or a black girl. Hospitals and dead friends indeed!

Actually Ricky's IP reflects that HE'S commented here for roughly two months...under his new Comcast ISP. Well over a year under his previous two ISPs.

Though I've recommended Amy to Glenn Sacks, defended her when mras have insulted her on various men's rights sites and commended her on Dr Helen's site, I can see I was premature.

Amy's advice on this is absurd and clearly projection from her out of revenge to her own former or current boyfriend to satisfy her ego.

Making sure to repeat 'asshole' in fact capitalize ASSHOLE to dig it in, about a young man being used by a typical selfish older woman, punishing the young man yet again by calling him names...in response to something I said.

Further insulting fat people with a long rant peppered with oh-so-subtle terms to dig it in and negatively effect the self-esteem of any overweight women who happen to be reading.

Overlooking my humor and assuming I'm a woman and overweight, Amy loads her response with subtle insulting terms in attempt to make me feel bad about myself...a physically fit man.

Amy, upon being disagreed with, becomes both vengeful and vindictive.

Additionally she tried to blow smoke and say the LW wasn't so selfish...it just so happens Amy had to edit and...hmmm...only leave the selfish language.

What a crock.

I hereby dump Amy.

I've found a better woman at the San Francisco Examiner. More mature, not egotistical, never vengeful, and a shining beacon for men's rights. And she's cute.

"Further insulting fat people with a long rant peppered with oh-so-subtle terms to dig it in and negatively effect the self-esteem of any overweight women who happen to be reading."

The fact that Amy provides some advice on how to lose the excess weight and keep it off shows her compassion without sacrficing her cutting edge wit. She's got a quick wit and is funny as hell.

60 excess pounds ago, I didn't feel insulted. I knew it needed to come off and it did. You can choose to feel however you wish, but these feelings are your responsibility and no one else's.

I think the age factor is secondary. The problem is his lack of respect for her time. The first time that he stood her up, she should have told him that she won't put up with that kind of behaviour. He could have apologized and they could have both moved on from it. If he did it again, she should have stopped seeing him.

Because he's giving her BS excuses, it means he's rude and inconsiderate. She should just treat him the way he treats her, and consider him a boytoy. If she stood him up a few times, it would either smarten him up, or he would dump her and then she'd see if he really loves her. She should also see other guys so that she stops obsessing about this idiot.

I agree with Chrissy and Amy. The age difference and genders are total smoke screens. The real issue is how each is being treated by the other.

We all know we don't get (or give) the full, unbiased story in these letters but the basic truth on this side is that LW is being treated poorly and Amy's answer is to her. I also agree the whole a**hole thing is unnecessary - it pulls the focus away from where it belongs, on the self-esteem problem of the LW and what she can do to fix her situation.

Laugh-out-loud hilarious and right on, Amy!

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