I don't think that he cares about being polite.

And why can't the woman 'own' the reaction that she gave him? He may not like processing his witnessing of her actions, but he should just 'own' that feeling or stop tonguing his girlfriend in public. So we're back where we started.

I love how this guy uses jealousy as an explanation for the responses to his inappropriate behavior. Yes, and when people get mad that your kids are running around the grocery store knocking things off shelves, they are simply jealous because they don't have kids! And when bystanders are annoyed at your loud cell phone conversations, they are probably just green with envy because...they don't have cell phones?

Take it from me: I have plenty of sex and I STILL don't want to see you making out in public, let alone having sex in a movie theater. (You've never heard of people getting up to go the bathroom or buy popcorn and scanning the aisles for their seats when they return?) It's also been my experience that the couples engaging in over-the-top PDA are usually the last people you'd ever want to think about in that context. I mean, if Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie started getting frisky in the seat behind me I probably wouldn't complain, but for some reason it's always a fat girl and a greasy tattooed guy who look like they escaped from the nearest trailer park. Who wants to bet that LW and his lady fall into this category?

I like your thought that manners are the root of empathy.

I was always taught that a gentleman (if that's not too outdated a term) does whatever he can to ensure those around him are comfortable. But this requires getting out of one's skull and practicing empathy.

I am always left wondering with overt PDAs if insecurity is the root (as in if I can convince you that we're really into each other, then we must be)

In response to this particular asshat, I'm going to reiterate a line from one of my posts a few columns ago: emotionally healthy and mature people don't need other people to see them being in relationships.

And I'm totally with you, Shannon, on the jealousy thing. It's also the same line used by people who talk incessantly about their own lives: we don't want to hear you yammering on about your beach house in Malibu because we're just jealous we don't have one. It's not at all because you're being incredibly ill-mannered by hijacking the conversation with nonstop talk of yourself.

Since we're nearing the end of the decade, I'm going to nominate this for Most Inane, Nonsensical Line in an Advice Column of the 2000s:

Basically, I own my actions and I'm fine with them.

Big fat duh. Most rude people are perfectly fine with their actions. If the extent of your introspection is "How do I feel about what I'm doing?", then you're still being incredibly self-absorbed (though I guess the perk is that you don't care). Let me guess: you get lots of that "negative feedback" when you inflict yourself on the public at large. But it's like this Monty Python sketch; it's not your fault for being rude, it's eeeeeveryone else's for being put out.

I think these two lines say pretty much everything we need to know about this guy:

The woman behind me that evening gave me negative feedback...which was of no interest to me.

My take on people put off by PDA (isn't it really only women?) is that their disgust is based more in envy than superior decorum.

Yes, Two Cents, it's only that women are such prudes that they don't want to see, hear, or, frankly, smell you having sex in the movie theater.

I have to say that Sicilicide nailed it:

If you're not insecure about your actions, you don't need to project them onto everyone in the area (theater, etc.).

This 'Guy' (term used loosely), probably also thinks that it's okay to broadcast his prostate surgery to everyone else standing in line at the supermarket, as well. After all, it's only an 'arbitrary' standard of behaviour.

Well, maybe he's also okay with someone with the flu throwing up on him. After all, it's only an 'arbitrary standard of behaviour'.

You make a good point, 'Tim'. Doesn't it often seem that the people think those who are put out at their behavior need to get over themselves are not as generous when looking at how others' behavior affects them? It's not that there are "arbitrary standards of behavior," it's that these people don't give a thought to anyone else around them. But if someone inconveniences or annoys them, then it's a whole new ballgame.

I hope this guy is a teenager.

I don't know, I don't have problem with it. He can do what he likes.

Basically, I own my actions and I'm fine with them. Others need to start owning their reactions, and you need to stop promoting arbitrary standards of behavior.

Yep LW, and my reaction is probably going to be running commentary of your performance or lack thereof. Of course, out of politeness I wouldn't do that normally - but you want to cross the line first, then I can laugh at your pathetic fumbling at the back of the movie theatre. Most likely including a stopwatch and loud announcement of your actual time to orgasm. Give me some warning to get a watch with a second hand though (35 seconds! we have a new PB!)

Look, you want to kiss your girlfriend in public, I have no problem with that. I do that too. But this sounds more like heavy petting which I can understand people being a bit distracted by at the theatre. You want to do it, fine, don't expect others to maintain their standards of non-interference as well.

Or to put it another way, what NumberSix said.

it's only that women are such prudes that they don't want to see, hear, or, frankly, smell you having sex in the movie theater

I *really* don't want to smell them. If they're that inconsiderate they probably don't even wash for each other.

Oops, NumberSix, destroyed the sarcasm in your post.

Yes, Two Cents, it's only that women are such prudes that they don't want to see, hear, or, frankly, smell you having sex in the movie theater.

This is one guy who agrees with you. Although I would probably be watching and sniggering (hey, in public, no right to privacy there), I would be amused at best, disgusted at worst.

He's clearly angling for a free copy of your book.

One way to cure this type of bad behavior is to pull out your cellphone camera and snap pics (with flash), or make a video from the phone. After all, the behavior is done in public and there is no expectation of privacy. Tell 'em you post the vid on youtube and the stills on publicdumbshits.com.

If there's no web site called publicdumbshits.com, there ought to be. Think how much traffic it would get!

If LW can own his actions, can I own drenching him and little missy with a bucket of cold water?

I live in Portugal, a latin country where many things are forgiven, because hey, we're latins. And still this guy shocks me. There are certain things that must be done in private. And like everyone else who has already commented mentioned, it is not out of envy, I simply don't want to see a couple making out in front of me. Or in the back of the theatre.
These are not "arbitrary standards of behavior" these are standards of behavior, nothing arbitrary about them. There is such a thing as respect for others, and this prevails in any culture.

Does he write her name and number on the bathroom wall when he's done? Maybe rate her on a scale of 1 - 10?

Really own it, dude. Let it out. Don't be a poseur.

One point not mentioned above is that sex or near-sex in public is a great turn-on and fetish for some people. Remember that congressman and his wife who did it on the capitol steps?

I just keep thinking about those poor, poor theater employees who have to clean up after the movie.

We had a sociopath like this glom onto my Ragbrai team for a while. Favorite quote: "Well, I'm not afraid to say what I think, and if people don't like to hear another point of view, that's not my problem." Response: "With a self-serving philosophy like that, you can never be wrong!" This kind of behavior only irritated everyone and served to get the individual kicked off the team. And considering what a motley bunch of people my Ragbrai team is, that's saying quite a bit.

Of course assholes are socially needy too, which is why these kinds of people always go on to glom onto someone else. Oddly, people who don't actually care about other people still care what other people think. Notice what a big deal Two Cents makes about NOT caring? Clearly he spends a lot of time obsessing about other people's disapproval of him. Imagine if he put as much time and effort into simply being considerate of others as he puts into justifying why it's everyone else who is always wrong. But whatever helps you sleep at night ... when people give you negative social feedback, just keep telling yourself it's because they really want to be more like you.

Egad, what a tool!

Talk about narcissism.

Come on, we were in the back row, and the seven people there would've had to turn their heads 180 degrees to see anything.

'Smatter, too small an audience? Guy sounds like a real jackwagon, and I suspect his girlfriend is, as well. No sense of common decency whatsoever. But hey, he owns his own actions! How wonderful for him. /sarc

o.O

Most of the time when I see people making out in public (I've never seen anyone having sex in public) it's teenagers. The behavior screams of "Look at me! I'm finally getting some! Behold me getting some!"

Then there's Scratchy, the homeless guy who masturbates in front of my office building. I'll give him a pass because it's not like he can take it back to his hotel room.

I'm not afraid to say what I think

This usually means "I don't care what you think."

LW: "I'm not afraid to say what I think

MonicaP: "This usually means 'I don't care what you think.'"

I take it to mean, "I say rude, boorish things people don't need or want to hear, and I call it candor."

BTW, letterwriter, grow up.

Funny that he chooses to drag the 1st Amendment into this, when his original letter sought to justify the suppression of speech, by people who complain about him having public sex.

As always, I remain truly surprised to see a real asshole in action, as opposed to one who merely plays one on TV.

This guy has obviously confused Tucker Carlson with "funny."

One point not mentioned above is that sex or near-sex in public is a great turn-on and fetish for some people.

Tough shit for them. Most people don't want to see it, ergo, the standard of decency is that tonsil hockey with slurping noises at the theatre is generally frowned upon.

Sexual fetishism is deviance from the norm, that's what makes it a turn-on for some people; the 'norm' doesn't have an obligation to put up with the deviations of a minority of people. It's really quite simple.

If you have some fetish that's likely to get you into trouble, you might want to try growing up and getting over it instead of expecting everyone else to "deal with it" - it's not like it's something you were born with.

This guy really needs to get over himself.

"or hear you making sex noises at the coffee bar"

THANK you. I know I'm not the only person who is tired of the foodgasms the self-anointed foodies have at table ("mmmmm oooowwwww the boeuf is so mmmmmm ooooo"). Oddly enough they never order tongue.

Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers, hey now, let the people have their hot boeuf injections - they're OK with it, you prude!

I'm just squeamish, maybe. I'm all for french kissing, but in my day (insert Craig Ferguson old fart sound effect here), the lips met, and then opened. Even in the pornos, the people actually kissed before showing the audience their tongues writhing around.

Bleeah.

I have three simple words of advice for this nut job. Get a room.

Wow. This guy is a piece of work. First off, it's not only women who get grossed out by this. Idiot.

Secondly, it's been my experience that men who publicly grope are useless at home. If you have to advertise it, it's because something about it is weak. Guy totally exposed himself; just not in the way he expected.

I've never seen anyone having sex in public

I have MonicaP. I work mostly on motorway and tunnel projects, where we tend to have extensive camera coverage. Upgrades to the computer systems tend to involve a lot of night work when the traffic is quiet. I was hanging round waiting for something at 2am once when one of the operators got an alarm for a stopped vehicle - zoomed in to find a minivan stopped in the emergency lane. Only one person in it - we thought - until we saw the head bobbing up and down below the steering wheel. They weren't causing any traffic disruption that time of night so we left them to it, not that it stopped us putting it up on the 6 foot high screen and cheering them on. She climbed aboard for a quickie, then they headed off. As one of the operators dryly remarked "I guess he's going to drop her off to her husband now"...

Mattie nailed it. The guy is so narcissistic and insecure that he has to prove his sexuality to the world: "Hey look, I got game and you don't!" He'll feel differently about it when he's in his mid-30s and he just wants to take his kid out to a ball game, or get some work done at the park because he's on a deadline and the air conditioning in his office died. My experience is that people who are the most blatant about their sexuality when they are young often wind up being the worst public scolds when they get older.

"it's been my experience that men who publicly grope are useless at home."

hmmmm...interesting, maybe because they get so excited by this particular fetish and not bc they are

" so narcissistic and insecure that he has to prove his sexuality to the world"

I used to get really excited when my first bf would pick me up in his classic camaro. I was only sixteen, but I would get all dressed up and bring out the sexy wigs and we totally got down in his bitchin' camaro. The cops came a couple of times and broke it up-that was the most exciting! Okay enough of memory lane...

Thag is right in saying

"Sexual fetishism is deviance from the norm... the 'norm' doesn't have an obligation to put up with the deviations of a minority of people."

But be careful not to go full witchhunt on something you don't understand. The LGBTQ community isn't the norm either, neither are atheists. This guy sounds more like a douche than a true fetishist. The real questions, if one is living the fetish or BDSM lifestyle are: Is it safe?, Is it sane?,and Is it consensual? If it's not consensual with the lady sitting behind you, it's not consensual. But consensual with the cops who are driving around where nobody else would be at certain hours doesn't count in my book. It's the laws that are arbitrary. How about this law in TN:

"More than 8 women may not live in the same house because that would constitute a brothel."

Really?

I think that if someone wants to do it in public they should go for it! But have some respect for the rest of the community, and find a dark spot to do it in.

Bitchin' Camaro by the Dead Milkmen for those of you who didn't get the reference! Such a RAD band!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT-OBLFlQIg

Ok I am obviously a woman and I am not a prude by any stretch of the imagination (I like strip clubs just as much as any guy). And I have NO interest in paying for a show and watching the people in front of me bang like bunnies-there is a time and place for everything. And if youre the asshole in the theatre having sex with your girlfriend you better be under the age of 18 and unable to use a car or rent a hotel room. And if you want to watch people have sex go to voueyerweb.com or redclouds.com- thats what pron sites were invented for

Gspotted, the problem with the LGBT "community" is the insistence from some of the more vocal among them that it be shoved in people's faces and that those who disapprove need to be re-educated - which is a bit like the attitude of this theatre douche.

As for BDSM, it's a lifestyle choice, therefore, not subject to any special dispensations with regards to public mores. What people do in private is their business so long as it's consensual; if you bring it into the street, however, you can expect negative reactions and consequences. That's life.

While a witch hunt is unnecessary, neither is expecting respect or acceptance from everyone else and trying to enforce this through politically correct news speak. No, people should not be discriminated against or intimidated on the basis of how they get their rocks off, but neither should anyone be compelled to accept it as a-OK either through being shamed or through coercion.

Going a bit off-topic I suppose but not really, because the LW here expects just that, that everyone accept his lack of decorum. As others have pointed out, since he doesn't see the necessity of lines in the sand, the woman who was upset over it was within her rights to pour her drink all over them both and he would have no right to be upset so long as she was fine with that.

Yes Thag, people "on a mission" bug. That's why the douchie LW bugs. Because he wants everyone to think like him and it's absurd. These types exist in every community, whether it's LGBTQ or creation science and unfortunately we all have to get used to it. That's why I quoted you and said you were right in saying

"the 'norm' doesn't have an obligation to put up with the deviations of a minority of people."

Nobody has any obligation to put up with anything, as for spilling drinks, well, I did that once "accidentally on purpose" bc some frat dude at a bar kept asking my friend if she was in a porno movie, I just got sick of it so I was all "woops look who's all thumbs tonight!" with a big smile. He left her alone after that.

Gspotted, lol, nice.

As now other guy has said anything I guess its up to me.

So, where is this place that has actual triplets preforming?

This guy is the very same kind of absolute tool that drives around with the "thumpin' bass" blaring on the car stereo. I sure wish the police would start enforcing the noise laws that many local governments have passed. Only once have I seen a cop address that problem. (In Fredricksburg, Texas -- a nice little town in a lot of ways.)

My favorite: The jackass that leaves the music blaring in the parking lot while he goes into 7-11.

I guess that's only rude if I apply my "arbitrary" values.

Lujip,

Find that chicken, and you'll find your triplets.

I'm not particularly personally bothered by PDAs (PDsA?), but I know other people are so it's just a thing called 'basic consideration' for other people.

Actual sex is different, and worse, as sex is generally a messy business no matter how careful you are, and it's really wrong to make other people sit in your cum or the sweat you've soaked the chair with or anything else, and certainly not while they're e.g. doing things like eating snacks. If you can't understand this, there is something wrong with you. Though it sounds like that line was added more to brag than anything else.

The LW sounds 12.

You should sell him your bathwater. It's easy money and it's sooo funny!

Yeah, I remember years ago, my friends and I were at a nightclub, and we realized that a couple on a balcony overlooking the dancefloor was getting it on. (She bent over the railing, he behind). They weren't particularly interesting, and not positioned somewhere we couldn't ignore (like right freaking in front of one at a pricy show), so we went about our business. About an hour later, I happened to look up, and there they still were--her leaning over the railing and looking *incredibly* bored, and he still going at it (I assume alcohol or drugs were involved in delaying his grand finale. Or maybe what Dan Savage calls "Tantric voodoo bullsh*t.") I felt not envy but pity for the poor thing. And vague, queasy amusement.

Am I the only one who noticed that LW refers to the lady BEHIND them and that they were sitting in the LAST row?

There were two incidents here: One took place in the last row of a movie theater (they had sex) and another (he was making out with heavy tongue action with his girlfriend) at a performance of the now-on-stage street theater/music/dance group "STOMP."

Amy, just scoop up some water from the Los Angeles River and send him that. I understand there's plenty of it right now.

The emails can get a little weird, but what do you expect when you call yourself a goddess? You go Giiiirrrrlllll! I'm in favor of anything that puts money in a woman's pocket- that's feminism! Amy, you could make BANK! Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEyYCpsMFdo

I would like to see a couple fucking at a railing at a nightclub. Especially if they were playing disco. (Most nightclubs are too loud for intelligent conversation, and you go there to dance and drink and act sexy anyway).
But yes, the couple-having-sex would have to be good-looking. No, I wouldn't want to watch for an hour. I might want to participate, under the right circumstances (private party renting the club, perhaps).
Really, no one has ever fantasized about sex in nightclubs? Having sex in public? Never done the Rio Carnival thing?
As for some guy kissing his girlfriend, I would just wish it was me, if she was hot. Who cares?

Two words for LW and gal: Narcissistic douchebags.

And Amy, watch out for bathwater boy. My book is about meth addiction not rudeness, but thank God or nothingness (no matter to me) my publisher up in Pennsylvania gets all the women prison freak mail and pictures.

I learned the hard, expensive way not to marry an addict. Not looking to repeat with some crazy ass prison beeyotch that was 'touched' by my tome.

What I don't understand is the license the L.W. gives himself to do what he wants in public, but he would deny the same freedom to the woman behind him who voiced her disapproval.

So if this repulsive douchebag and his repulsive girlfriend want to root and snort like the pigs they are, don't others who witness this have the right to be just as obnoxious as they want when expressing their disapproval?

He snorts, "Basically, I own my actions and I'm fine with them. Others need to start owning their reactions..."

Doesn't he need to own his reaction to their reaction? It doesn't sound like he is. He's ordering Amy "to stop promoting arbitrary standards of behavior."

I'm probably not saying this well, but it seems to me that if he's going to demand that people own their own reactions, he should do the same. Obviously, he's bothered by the disapproving sneers like "Get a room!" or else he wouldn't be on this crusade to get people to stop voicing their disapproval.

If he wants people to own their reactions, then he should own his reactions to their reactions. Because obviously, he's not.

Patrick, I think what you are trying to say is LW's "right" to be a douche also gives me the right to tell him that he's a douche and why. Makes perfect sense to me.

Kat: Patrick, I think what you are trying to say is LW's "right" to be a douche also gives me the right to tell him that he's a douche and why. Makes perfect sense to me.

Exactly! But moreover, since he expects people to own their reactions and not be bothered by what he does, then he should practice what he preaches and not let the catcalls and disdainful comments bother him.

Re: Sex Clubs

I used to work for a guy who owned a 'swingers' club in Philadelphia, though I worked for another one of his businesses. He told me that most of the women who would show up alone were hired by him. They were basically pros. He needed to do this, otherwise the crowd would be all male.

Triplets? With a chicken? Is this an L.A. thing?

A woman I know in the neighborhood across from mine, which backs up to the high school, actually did turn her hose on some sexin' teens in her yard. If I were around that "man" he and the GF would be all wet and not in the way they'd wanted. And you better believe I'd own the fact I'd done it. There are places that's ok, ad places it's not. Bourbon Street-yes. Stomp-no. Back of a dimly-lit bar at 2am? Go for it. A covered path at Disneyworld? NO!! (not on the people-mover either, or heck anywhere there. They have cameras and people watching them, and you WILL be arrested! Geez, THINK, people!)I was always amazed by these people who make out at shows-why are you spending the money? Just stay home and screw for free.

hey, what about people who fight in public? is that worse? better? same?

My bf and I decided to only have other peoples fights so it's great for us. I heard this one couple and the gal was all "You're on thin ICE!" Now we just have that fight over and over. It breaks up the monotony of getting along and it's hilarious.

I couldn't help but wonder, while reading LW's claim that it's women who are envious prudes, hey - isn't it a *woman* he is making out with?? Then SHE must also be an envious prude! What's he doing, consorting with the enemy??? /end sarcasm

The thing about civilization, manners, decorum, etc, is it's exactly the "fight" that you don't want to have, back and forthing with who gets to ridicule and belittle the other's public actions. Where does it stop? This sounds like my kids when they are bickering. It got to epic proportions until i figured out a way to stop it, and that was: instead of being the referee, i became the interested observer, and when one child finished bickering, i would turn to the other and say "your turn", and vice versa. It would crack them up, thus ending the bickering.

The bottom line is that manners are the foundation of civilization. Without manners, where would we be?

Public sex might (initially) be tantalizing to watch, but eventually, it gets tawdry, and i agree with whomever it was who said that standards of hygiene must be maintained, therefore, *just say no* to public sex... as one of my children is constantly putting his fingers into his mouth after having touched everything in public. No matter how often i coach him re: this dangerous activity, he still puts his fingers in his mouth, on his face, into his eyeballs, etc. Some kids are like that. Heck... some adults are like that. I tell my tactile child that the germs of the world are on whatever it is he is plastering his hands all over, and remind him often to wash his hands.

The LW sounds like he is a throwback to days of yore when men were men, and sheep were scared. I know others have voiced this, but i need to say it too: making excuses for your own bad behaviour is infantile. In most cases, public sex can land the perp right in front of a judge. Hopefully, for the LW, sooner rather than later.

I loved your response to this letter, and your subsequent responses that you've so generously shared with us here. Your book was on my Amazon wish list, and I'm happy to report I received it for Christmas. I've already started reading it and wishing I had the ability to call out rude people as I spot them. Alas, I'm one of those people who cares what others think. Although my hubby and I did manage to rally an entire train car full of people to shush a very loud cell phone talker (that's a whole other story). In the meantime, I'll have to live vicariously through the speaker-uppers.

A couple years back I attended the afternoon matinee of GREASE at the Tennessee Performing Arts Center. On the sidewalk going in there was a female couple all over each other (at 3PM) to the point I wasn't sure if they were militant lesbians or two girls playing a joke. Before the performance began a Chubby Checkers impersonator came out and announced an onstage twist contest. Most were older couples that remembered twisting but the two girls chose to come up and do a slow dance bump and grind that would have gotten a heterosexual couple politely asked to leave the stage. I'm guessing several there with children weren't owning their reactions but as long as the couple were cool with it so what. There's rights and then there's manners.

Isn't there some sort of "TSA rule"? If the TSA does it in public, it's alright for others to do it in public? [/sarc off]

You what the worst thing is that you could do to encourage a narcissistic asswipe? Talk at length about him and how strongly he affects you. Stop it, people! All of this, no matter how correct, perpetrates just how important this prick already feels.

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