I'm older. I find that men around my age are generally more willing to chase. It's the younger guys (in their 30's), who will show interest, but seem to expect me to do the chasing.

I have yet to figure out if it's because I'm the "cougar," so carry the burden of giving chase? or if the younger men just live by a different set of standards. Regardless the reasons for this discrepancy, I'm much more attracted to a man who acts as though he's interested in me.

Just a thought.

While I have sympathy for his feeling of vexation that he's not given closure, I agree that his methods leave something to be desired.

Granted, I think these gals are being rude for not calling back at all, but they perhaps think it's the kindest way. Misguided, though.

Part of the problem is women and men not being socialized properly-- most women need to learn to be upfront about not being interested in a guy, and to do so graciously and politely, and most men need to learn to civilly accept rejection.

I'm with Amy that a guy needs to be a man, and ask someone out in an unambiguous way, and women need to "women up" and be honest about not being interested if they are not.

Part of the problem is, women are socialized to be people-pleasers to the point of becoming dishonest manipulators, and enough guys are socialized to think that acting like angry entitled jerks is how to be "manly" to the point that a small subset can get violent when rejected. The few scary psychos spoil it for everyone else.

So, it's easy for guys (like the LW) to take the easy route and avoid rejection by leaving a wussy VM request for a date, and easy for gals (like the one the LW is chasing) to be wusses and not call back with an adequate reply.

People are just so obsessed with instant gratification these days. Well, not only these days.

Yeeeeeeeears ago, I met a man in a bar. Total stranger. We danced, he bought me a drink, asked me if I wanted to go get it on. I was very surprised and said "Uh, no."

He thanked me for my time and said goodbye.

I've never forgotten that. After I got over my surprise, I kind of appreciated his directness. I don't know if that approach works or not, but at least he didn't waste my time (even if he was only concerned with not wasting any of his own).

He probably runs a speed-dating business now. I wonder if the actual sex would have been as fast as the courtship!

There's a lot of this going around lately. I'm constantly hearing both guys and gals bitching about not getting call backs from people they're interested in; it's damn near epidemic!

Look, people, just make the call. And be honest. Tell the person "I'm just not that into you." They'll appreciate it, believe me!

"Look, people, just make the call. And be honest."

Exactly. Even if it's bad news, do it. Use a little empathy. Does anybody out there like being left in limbo?

How old is this guy? I'm 20, and no one in my generation leaves or checks voicemails. When I want to get in touch with someone, I'll call first, and if they don't pick up I'll hang up and shoot them a text. Maybe LW should try that. The great thing about texting is that once you've sent it you can be 99.9% sure that the other person has received it. You don't have to sit around wondering whether they're deliberating ignoring you or whether they just haven't listened to their messages yet this month.

If you can't be bothered talking on the phone and arranging a date that way, why bother going out at all? I've seen some dates where both people are texting their friends the whole time. It might be a good idea to practice your social skills, since you will be interacting with another human face to face, if you are going to be in a relationship.

LW: There is a new webpage, backpages.com, where you can meet a girl for $150 and have sex. Many are cute.

Do that, and you won't care so much about some drip not returning your call.

Do the backpage things and try to score with non-pro chicks along the way, n bars or clubs, school etc. Then when a girl really digs you and acts right, start dating her.

But some chippie didn;t call you back. Oh boo-hoo. It will happen a few hundred more times, believe you me. Gotta roll with the punches kid. And keep hustling.

While BOTU's message made me laugh, there is some truth to his methods... He's right that it will happen a few hundred more times, until you meet your match. Don't stop asking women out until you meet your match!

I agree about wondering how old this guy is, leaving voice mail instead of text msgs. Don't show your cards when leaving voice mail; just a cheery "call me" will do. If the lady is half-way interested, she might call back to find out what you want to talk with her about.

And for those who text message the whole time they are out on a date, ~wow~ such boors. If i was on a date with a guy who couldn't leave his cell alone, i would get up and leave. If ever there was an example of "he's just not that into you" this would be it. Someone who has met his/her match would not only turn off the damn cell phone, he/she would throw it over their shoulder. Maybe i've watched too many chick flix.

"I have yet to figure out if it's because I'm the "cougar," so carry the burden of giving chase? or if the younger men just live by a different set of standards."

It's probably a combination of things, but I think one main cause is the younger generation of women's self-centered and egotistical obsession with pretty much automatically calling anyone who shows even the slightest unrequited interest in them a "stalker". Men don't want to be perceived that way, so if a woman seems uninterested it often seems easier to just let it be. Plus we've been brainwashed with the whole 'if a woman says no, that's like the word of God from between the parting clouds of the sky above' thing. I've noticed the difference even in older movies vs newer movies, and everything that used to be called "courting" (it's telling that nobody even uses that word anymore) is now broadly called "stalking".

My advice to a young man today would probably be along the lines of, if you're interested in a woman, have a rule of 'try up to 3 times' to charm her into a date at least. If you're getting nowhere by the third try, give up and move on. That way at least you'll know you gave it a proper go, but you also won't end up pining too long after someone who isn't interested in you.

And I also would never ask someone out via voicemail, that just seems weird. Text message, sure, depending on context, that seems casual enough. Other than that, it should be in person or on the phone, even if you're shy.

@Pricklypear "I don't know if that approach works or not, but at least he didn't waste my time"

Certainly, many men operate this way, and they all play it as a numbers game -- it fails on 80% of women but 1 in 5 just go for it.

"Tell the person "I'm just not that into you." They'll appreciate it, believe me!"

Uhmmm ... no. Actually they'll be hurt and will hate you for it. Nobody really wants the truth if it's bad news. We all want to be liked by everyone. Stop pretending that this is heroic and noble; mostly for the benefit of the other person. It's the right thing to do for your own sake. The honesty is good for your sense of integrity and self-esteem. The other person will do with it what they will. Their reaction is completely out of your control.

"Don't show your cards when leaving voice mail; just a cheery "call me" will do."

I beg to differ. I find this incredibly annoying, not just for prospective dates but for anyone in general. (Mom, are you listening?) If I see I have a missed call from you, then I know to call you back-I don't need a message telling me the same. And if you take the trouble to leave a message, and I take the trouble to listen to a backup of 17 voicemails to hear it (typically along the lines of "Hi it's mom! Just calling to say hi! Call me!"), then it damn well better convey something more important than "call me." Plus, if I'm somewhere where I can't pick up the phone-like at work or in class or in a movie theater-then I won't be able to check my voicemail either and may not be able to for several hours. Whereas it takes two seconds to glance at a text, which is why I think texting is the way to go (as a followup to the phone call). Also, when it's coming from a prospective date, the message can seem a little ominous because you don't know if it's good or bad-the voicemail version of "we need to talk." In summary, I'd love if you call, text, email, bbm, facebook...any of the million instanteous ways to get in touch with someone, but don't just leave an obscure voicemail!

Shannon: I beg to differ. I find this incredibly annoying, not just for prospective dates but for anyone in general.

And I beg to differ with you. It's entirely possible, for instance, that you might be drawing a blank on who this guy is. Leaving a voice could serve to remind you, and it's a nice, polite personal touch.

If someone leaves a number on my phone and no message, and I can't figure out who this person is...which means you better be a close relative...then I'm not calling back. I'll assume a wrong number.

Lobster has a point. Women are prone to casting any unwanted attention in terms of sexual assault or harassment. No one wants to be labeled a stalker or a pervert. So if there's not an immediate positive response, it's best to move along. You're asking for trouble if you try to contact someone more than once or twice.

I think that this is the same reason that many guys are hesitant to ask for an explicit date, rather they'll propose something non-committal. If you're too eager, and she doesn't like you, there's a good chance that you're going to be labeled a creep or a pervert. So it's best to play things close to the vest until you get a better idea of how she'll react.

I'm part of the older crowd, and I too prefer texts. Not to a proper phone conversation, but to a message. If I call someone and it goes to voicemail, I'll generally just say, "Hey, it's Ana, sending you a text since it sounds like you're not picking up." I'd so much rather get a text saying something like, "Sorry we didn't connect via phone--are you free later in the week?" than have to (as Shannon says) dial in to my voicemail, which may or may not be available, then call back, leave another message, and keep ping-ponging, when we could have settled plans via text and be well on our way to the next date. I'd also rather get a lame text like, "Super sorry, so busy, may not be around for a bit, will call if things mellow out" than have to hear someone hemming and hawing their way through a painful blow-off on voicemail or in person.

Amy is woefully wrong on this one. Here is why I think so:

"It's called "the chase,"" -- Only in romantic comedies. In real life, it's called "would you like to join me for an evening?"

"If you're like a lot of guys, you ask girls out by phone message as a way of avoiding rejection." No. You ask girls out by phone message because you tried to call and she didn't pick up. Had she picked up the phone, you'd never have reached the voice mail.

"Never ask a girl out by voicemail" -- Is this a rule somewhere? I've never asked a girl out by voicemail, but only by happenstance.

"If she's just ambivalent, and you get her on the phone, you might charm her into going out with you again. (It's a lot easier to delete a guy than say no to him.)" -- Why are you encouraging this guy to cajole a woman into allowing him to pay a bunch of money to treat her to a nice evening? Men don't want to go through all that expense and trouble for someone who needs to be cajoled. Although there is no skin off the nose of a woman on a date, there is considerable skin sheared off of the man's.

This guy is simply saying that he called a woman who seemed receptive to a second date. That woman didn't pick up the phone for whatever reason. He had a message to convey. He left the message. How is that a faux pas?

She was rude not to return the message. It's simple etiquette.

Call me a dinosaur, but i do not do text messaging. Yes, i have a cell phone; it is not a smart phone, and i keep it turned off except in cases of emergency. I am not the one you'll see with the bluetooth attached, walking down the street, nor am i the one you'll see with my cell to my ear at every/any given moment. I do not live or die by my phone.

If i was lucky enough to even get 17 voice mail messages, ~wow~ i would be there, at the phone, pencil to paper, writing down every name & number of every person who left a message. I would *never* pick up voice messages somewhere in public where it would be difficult or awkward at best to catch every and all the tidbits of info for each of the 17 callers; i would make sure i was very ready to record numbers so that not one prospective date would be missed. And for anyone who left a message for me, no matter how brief, even if it was "hi, it's me, call me back"... i would not assume that the person is brainless or lacking in social skills. Some people just do not wish to talk to electronic devices. Judging someone because they have not talked inanely on and on to your voice mail and then also texted you is harsh.

It is also not a great idea to text someone's land line, as was done to me just recently. First, it causes the land line to ring on and on; second, your text message doesn't get transmitted, only an electronic voice that tells the recipient that someone is attempting to text to your land line. Duh to the texter.

Oh yes, and i agree with Amy in that asking someone out on a first date via voice mail is a no-no. It's just very ewwwww.

Amy's suggestions are apt. Yet, this guy does have the right idea.

Ask a girl out once. If she says "yes" then continue asking her out. This is "the chase".

But if she says "no", or doesn't respond at all after several attempts, then stop calling. Otherwise, it is not "chasing" but begging.

Texting is for twits. Texting is just email spam. Texting eliminates a powerful tool in the courting game -- the sound of one's voice.

I have a voice that people compliment me on all the time, and have done so my whole life. Women like to listen to the sound of my voice, and I have initiated and sustained many relationships because of my voice. I find the sound of a woman's voice to be stimulating, in general. Now a little girl voice could be annoying from a woman, but rarely is that the case for me.

I'll take a voicemail every time.

"How is Your Flirting Voice?" . . .

http://www.learnbodylanguage.org/body_language_voice.html

"Texting is for twits. Texting is just email spam. Texting eliminates a powerful tool in the courting game -- the sound of one's voice."

Get over yourself. As the saying goes, when your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Texting is just an informal method of writing, and thus just another tool in the communication toolbox.

You may have a lovely, mellifluous voice, and I'm really glad that women fall at your feet every time you open your mouth. But not everyone has that, nor does everyone want to leave what may be a stiff, awkward voicemail.

I'm a better writer than a speaker, and, quite frankly, I detest phone calls. I've had excellent dating success exchanging casual text messages with smart and attractive women from 23 to 41. But maybe we're really all just twits who need voice lessons!

"And I also would never ask someone out via voicemail, that just seems weird. Text message, sure, depending on context, that seems casual enough. Other than that, it should be in person or on the phone, even if you're shy."

Oh yes, if you're avoiding phone calls because you're shy, then here's a tip, a drink or two before calling can really help, so you don't sound so nervous and stifled, and can help make you a bit more conversational and relaxed. Don't get yourself drunk, but tipsy enough to lower your inhibitions.

"Texting eliminates a powerful tool in the courting game -- the sound of one's voice"

I agree with MikeInRealLife --- while you always have to keep certain realities in mind, you'll probably do better overall if you play to your OWN strengths, rather than try be good at what you're not.

I am wondering if he really "invited" her (gave the date, time, event) or just left a message saying he would like to go out with her again, and for her to call.

If he did the second, she only owed him a call back if she wanted to go out again (in my opinion). A true invitation requires a response, but gives the invitee the option of saying, "I am so sorry but I won't be able to make it," without having to give an explanation.

I cannot imagine making a phone call to say that "I'm just not that into you."