If it was someone like George Clooney, would she say no?

How is it that and eleven year gap is okay, but twenty is gross?

Besides, Snoopy has it right. It's gross only inasmuch as the guy isn't loaded and/or famous.

I saw this online all the time when I was on dating sites: middle-aged men after women ages 18-25. Just what every nice young girl wants: to go to her prom or to see My Chemical Romance with a man her father's age.

The oldest man who ever tried to pick me up served in World War II. (I was born in 1969.) Most men who've tried to go out with me (in person, IRL) were old enough to be my father. Er, no thanks.

Why do they do this? Someone suggested that people seem to see themselves as perpetually 30 years old.

Self-Identity actually tends to stick around age 21. We all mentally see ourselves that way. I think when I read that they thought it had something to do with sense of adult self forming then. Nice hard black and white things like numbers, though, are pretty hard to ignore. I can't fathom hitting on a college age kid. And I'm in my early 30's.

Why do they do it online?

Because they want to have sex with you genius! Wow. You're young 24.

If you're not mature enough to say "no, thank you", and move on, you're not old enough to date. Period.

> Self-Identity actually tends to stick around age 21.

I think that the age of self-identity varies from person to person. Scott Adams calls it "permanent age" and says many people will proudly admit they are 12 year olds at heart. I've always felt like I was made to be 35.

I'm 39 and a couple of years ago, I had a brief stint with a girl who was 21 and I wasn't the aggressive one.

Probably, the old guys do it, because sometimes it works. I prefer my women older, though. My current fling is only a couple of years younger than me and that suits me way better.

I was on a dating site and had a man send pictures of himself to me, he was doing active things and he was hot. The pictures were 40 years old. Jeans and T-shirts had not changed that much during that time. She showed at the first date and I could not believe it was the same man. In fact I questioned out loud that he was. He was 75, and he told me those pictures represented how he really is.

I was nice but only stayed for one drink and then made my excuses and left.

This LW has every right to expect for the men on the site to respect her stated age range, no matter how young they think they look.

How would everyone feel about a 24 year old guy who said he was on a dating site and 40 and 50 year old women were hitting on him when his age range was up to 30? Oh wait to I hear the cougar word? Very few humans are in the kind of shape at 40 and 50 to attract a human in their 20's unless they have access to spas, personal trainers, and plastic surgeons AND piles and piles of money.

Get over it guys, young women see much older men hitting on them as creepy. Those that do not... well, they are after more than a romantic relationship.

I just have to note that the LW is 24 and her profile indicates that she is only interested in older men (ok with 24-35, but apparently won't consider even a 23-year-old guy.) I can easily see why a young-looking guy in his 40's might figure it was worth a try. My husband and I are 42 and 46, but in our circle of friends, quite a few men our age are dating women in their mid-20's. They aren't Hollywood stars, but they are in good shape, well-dressed, professionally successful and probably more emotionally stable than most men in their 20's. The women aren't bimbos, either - they are professionals and whatever Daddy-issues they may have are at least not obvious.

My suggestion, if she really wants to avoid any older men, would be to reduce her stated age range (say, to 22-27.) People are always going to push the envelope a bit if they see an ad that appeals to them, but that would clearly indicate that you are looking for a contemporary.

The last time a guy my dad's age hit on me, he said "Hey beautiful, where ya been all my life?" I smiled and said "well for the first 30 years, I wasn't even born yet."

He stared at me, called me a bitch, then laughed and bought me a drink! I didn't go out with him anyway.

o.O

If men add 10 years to the age they read in online profiles and 50 lbs to the weight, they are usually closer to the truth.

Why do they do it online?

Because it's a low risk/high reward scenario. If you're weirded out by it, all you're likely to do is delete the message and maybe block that user from contacting you again. You're not likely to make a scene, or start laughing, or do something equally ego deflating that could happen if they approached you offline.

Plus, as Amy said, with there being plenty of online fish in the sea, your rejection doesn't hurt that much since he's onto the next one(s). It's the same basic principle as those email scams that tell you you've just inherited 12.8 million dollars if you'll send along 2500 for legal fees. Because it's so cheap to run, it doesn't matter if it has a 99.9% failure rate. The .1% more than pays for the rest

There's a story about a guy who stands on a corner and asks every woman who goes by, "Wanna Fuck?"

His friend asks if he has any success with that approach.

He replies, "Not really, but I save a lot on dinner and movies."

Awww, old dudes! I love listening to long, rambling stories about World War II, rationing, and trucks, so we get along pretty well.

I've never really done any online dating but I feel like it's opened up a whole new can of etiquette worms.

Then there's the story about the bunch of frat boys in a bar near the train station on a really snowy winter night, hitting on girls as they get off the train. The line they use is "Tickle your ass with a feather?" and when the girl says "What did you say?", one of the boys would answer with "particularly nasty weather" and then the girl says, "why yes, yes it is" and goes on to have a drink with the boy. Well, there's a drunk nearby watching, and he starts pestering the boys, "shay, lemme give it a (hic) try" and the boys are all "no, no, you'll mess it up" but he keeps pestering them until one of the boys says, "okay, have at it, pops". So he waits until a really stunning young lady gets off the train, and she's running into the bar to get out of the blustery winds and snow, and the drunk says, "hey baby, let's fuck!" and she screams "WHAT?!?" and the drunk says "it's shnowin'!"

o.O

Very few humans are in the kind of shape at 40 and 50 to attract a human in their 20's unless they have access to spas, personal trainers, and plastic surgeons AND piles and piles of money.

I think that this depends on where you live. People in many parts of the US tend to let themselves go pretty severely. But in the coastal cities and military towns, for instance, you'll meet plenty of people this age who can hold their own. It's really the maturity gap that makes such an age difference impractical.

The thing with dating sites is that no one is going to 'respect' your age range. I've gotten plenty of contacts from women who are way above my stated range. It's not something to freak out about.

My suggestion, if she really wants to avoid any older men, would be to reduce her stated age range (say, to 22-27.)

Good point. If she's stating that she'll consider a 35 year old, she's distinguishing herself from 90% of the other young women online who'll only date within about 6 months of their age. It's not surprising that guys in their forties or fifties are winking at her.

I'm not into all this newfangled online stuff myself (I leave it to you kids with your hula-hoops and skateboards and all...)but I thought there was all this lying and posting old or fake pictures of yourself. How did this girl--and of course I'm assuming it's a girl, end up with all the honest guys?

They apparently can't read too well, or they would know they're beyond the sell-buy date for her. The eyesight must be failing. But at least they aren't trying to fool her.

Or maybe they are. Who cares? Well, this non-problem has used up enough of my life. On to the next!

Men this old never approach me in "real life."

They're probably flirting with you and you don't recognize it.

Here's the thing, a single guy over 40 really doesn't have that many options. You almost have to date a lot younger. There just aren't many eligible women your age. I've never dated more than ten years younger, and usually less than five. So I'm not chasing girls in their twenties. But I understand why older guys will do this, where a younger guy in his thirties might be embarrassed to.

Despite what you hear, a woman over 35 who's kept herself together, and isn't a basket case, can write her own ticket. They're like the Unicorns of the dating world.

Amy's right. It's just a numbers game, with very little downside, as far as being humiliated, and it sometimes even works. I'll bet if she looked beyond the old guy photo and down to where it lists "income", some of those guys will be in the $150,000+ range (not that this is necessarily true), but older rich guys figure their money will compensate for their age, and they're often right.

At any rate, all she has to do is hit delete. A wink isn't something she needs to acknowledge. It's drive-by flirting. She doesn't need to get all icked out over it.

Aside from he obvious fact that many men (and women) are simply playing the odds in risk free environment, as an older guy it's quite annoying to get "matches" on online dating services only to find the age range doesn't match.

It's not just age. A big one is height. I've also been matched with smokers even though I declare no smoking as a criteria.

Here's the point: dating services have to make matches to stay in business. They don't care about you personally. It's in their interest to encourage people to go out of their league, so to speak. So, if you go online, understand that.

Ok I'm 28 and once got hit on in person by a man the same age as my grandfather- hes 89. But anyways- an age gap itself isn't that much of a problem (I'm 28 my bf is 42) and we met When I was 19. But I've always been mature for my age so he would tell you it was like dating a 19 year old body with a 29 year old mind. However in the lw case-

Damn computer cut me off- anyways in the letter wtiters case she is being specific- but it is a lot easier to get turned down by someone you've never met online instead of face to face and thats why they do it- it doesn't cost their egos- I'm with her though that there is such a thing as so old its creepy

Sheesh, I do it in real life. All they can say it no.

And sometimes they say yes.

Why?

A tiger never loses his stripes.

What? Men are interested in young women? Even middle-aged to older men?

Wow. Stop the presses. Utter shocking. Who could have imagined? I am floored. The world just stopped turning on its axis.

Next some rich, high-status man will write in to Ms. Alkon expressing surprise at all these women who keep trying to get his attention and engage in sexual relations.

Another piece of advice for this sniveling little wimpette LW:

When I was in my 20s, I humped a lot of women in their 40s. They loved it, and so did I.

Try shagging some good-looking guy in his 40s. You may learn something beyond your own extremely limited ken.

The best sex I've ever had was a man 30 years my senior, while I was escorting. I saw him as a client for almost 4 years—but I spent an entire summer "off the clock" at his house after that dynamic ended because he knew exactly what I liked to do in bed. Not to mention he was a wonderful human being as well.

I STILL fantasize about that man.

If a 24-year-old woman has to resort to online dating, then she isn't much of a catch anyway.

Rick-
Most likely fat and horse-faced. And whining because seniors thereby think they have a shot at her.

I find high success ratio is obtained if you pick up fat and horse-faced women.

Anyone else find this LW seems to be trying almost a little too hard to exaggerate how 'gross' she supposely finds this? How puerile.

Life is short LW. A blink of an eye, and you'll be "ick" and "gross" - heck, 24 is peak for a woman's attractiveness, it's downhill already from where you are. The wheel of karma turns. I don't find older women attractive but I don't feel the need to stroke my ego by insulting them and declaring loudly and publicly how beneath me they are - what a wretched character trait. I agree she doesn't sound like much of a catch for any age.

Some women seem to make a point to make a real vocal display of it when someone they don't like, hits on them --- one gets the impression that such women either actually aren't hit on very often, or are just crappy self-obsessed human beings. Treat people like people.

I think LW is also taking it overly personally - they're not hitting on you because you're some sort of special bombshell, they're just taking their chances "winking" at loads of profiles, as statistically some will respond and they have nothing to lose in the process.

Um Lobster, you DID just insult older women.

I'm amused at the characterization of this as a "shocking trend." Yes, Virginia, old men hit on young women. If you promise not to tell anyone, I'll let you in on another secret: sometimes young women actually like to date much older men. I know, right? What possible reason could they have...

What I find odd is that you took the time to write to an advice columnist about this. I think Lobster and lovelysoul and others are onto something in that most women would just move right on past the "winks" of older men without obsessing. Is it that it's gross they're old or that they're so blatantly disregarding your specifications? I have a feeling there's a heaping tablespoonful of the latter in there, which, well, welcome to online dating. And life.

LW, if you're not interested, just delete and block. Match.com even has a special feature that allows you to respond to a wink with "No, thanks."

If you're that concerned by being hit on by older men, you can even do a search outside your parameters, and block those whom you consider too old. This way, they'll be blocked before they even hit on you.

I see no reason to make a Federal case out of this because some spry older guy wants to shoot for the moon in a safe environment. Heck, I don't even see the reason you wrote to Amy. Unless you secretly find it gratifying that you're being hit on...and have the luxury of rejecting so many offers with "Ewwwww...gross!" to someone's interest in you.

Personally, I think the prettiest girls aren't merely the ones with the nice face, hair and body. They're the ones who don't act like snobs and treat everyone as way below their league. The prettiest girls are the ones who talk to guys, even guys that don't stand a chance, like they're people.

LW, what I'm trying to say is that you sound like a snob. If someone like you hit on me, I'd turn gay.

Oh, wait...

LW, what I'm trying to say is that you sound like a snob.

She may just be young and inexperienced. That's how I read her reaction. It's what you'd expect from a young woman who isn't accustomed to dealing with older men as an adult. Kids are often very sheltered nowadays. She's probably never been exposed to this sort of attention from mature men.

My daughter was hostessing at a restaurant, and some "old" guys were flirting with her there. She didn't make a big deal out of it, though that is potentially a much more threatening situation than receiving an online "wink". Yet, she understood that they were usually drunk, lonely or just longing for their youth...and all she had to do was ignore their silly comments...and she's only 17. So, I, too, wonder why a girl would write in to an advice column over something like this.

Others have made good points about the matching system. The sites put profile in your inbox that don't necessarily meet your criteria, and also, people can search by key words. If she has "older man" anywhere in her profile, a guy who types that in (looking for a young chick who likes old men) may get her profile. She's meaning 30, not 50, so she should take "older man" out.

and she's only 17

Well that's crossing the line. My younger sister used to have to deal with that sort of thing when she'd worked at our local country club. The kind of man who'll hit on an underage girl is the same kind who'll probably go too far if she reciprocates. There are always going to be a few girls who respond to older men, and they're the type that these guys are looking for. One of the men who was harassing my sister later got caught with some 16 year old, and I imagine that he found himself in a heap of trouble.

True, nemo, but it's important to note that flirting isn't molesting. And it's simply a fact of life for pretty young women, or any attractive woman, which is something I want my daughter to realize and know how to handle. If some old dude tries to grab her, that's crossing the line, but if he just tells her she's cute, she shouldn't be calling the cops on him.

One drunk did try to pat her butt as she walked by, and some of the tall, burly male waiters came over, gave him a stern talking to and kicked him out. I suppose they could've had him arrested, but - maybe just because I'm southern - I rather prefer that style of handling it.

Plus, it's nice for her to see that there are more good guys who will come to her defense than there are jerks who'll act that way.

Normal older men see rich and/or famous older men with hot young women and see only the older man part, not the rich and/or famous part, so they think they have a chance. I have a mildly wealthy friend in his 50s who serially dates hot women in their 20s, though he does pick them up in person where it's easier to display the wealth (he's decent looking and very personable, which helps).

Feel sorry for the old guys if you want, but the behavior is totally understandable.

Also, 17 year old hostesses probably look indistinguishable from 18 or 19 year old ones so there's no line being crossed if it's just flirting. It's infuriating how often people want to freak out about adult men finding fully sexually mature girls under 18 attractive. What's bad is acting on that attraction once you know they're less than 18. Just feeling it is NORMAL.

My age limit for online dating was pretty simple. I'm adopted, so if there was any chance this guy was actually my daddy, I passed.

Just feeling it is NORMAL.

I agree with that. I'd taken lovelysoul's flirting to mean something more than I think she intended. What my sis experienced was lude and explicit behavior. It wasn't simply an older guy telling her she looked nice.

She was a magnet for all sorts of inappropriate behavior by older men. If some old guy had winked at her online when she was in her twenties, she probably would have assumed that it was one of her high school teachers.

I am an old dude pushing 60, but I can date 30 year olds because I don't live in California.
When I lived on West coast dating much younger women was purely commercial exploit, you spent a lot of cash to do it.
West Coast socializing was for the most part thinly disguised prostitution.
In Mid west, where guys once expected to have strong back factory employment they ended up poorly educated, and by their late thirties with bad teeth, no hair and huge beer guts.
Then the economy crashed, guys lost their jobs, and it was women dominated employment that took off.
I am 60 but a West coast 60, without the beer gut, have good dental work, most of my hair and I saved money rather than spending it all on beer and gambling tobaco and Nascar.
It is easy to date much younger educated ambitious women, because the competition is pretty pathetic.
Men their own age are Nascar loving useless pieces of uneducated crap, and are usually limp due to the drinking, nicotene addiction, and adult onset diabetes.
And I won't date "age appropriate" mid west women because they are grossly fat,have bad teeth, are born again morons who grew up in an era when women from around here did not get edicated ,and spend all their time in church, so they are pretty much brain dead jasus junkies.
So age gap is not big deal if one is in half way decent condition physically and financially , compared to the locals.
What you can get away with when it comes to cradle robbing, depends on where you are and what the competition is like.

BOTU, did you just write the comment above on 08/25 10:27 PM? It is pretty decent observation and you should take a credit if you wrote it.

"My age limit for online dating was pretty simple. I'm adopted, so if there was any chance this guy was actually my daddy, I passed."

Have you seen the Korean cult classic, Old Boy?
It has something to do with it.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364569/

Johns got a point. When I used to work in NE PA, near Scranton, it wasn't so unusual to meet women in their twenties and early thirties who were with men in their forties or even fifties. You could see why, when you looked at the local population. That was an area where people seemed to age in dog years.

Julie My husband and I are 42 and 46, but in our circle of friends, quite a few men our age are dating women in their mid-20's. They aren't Hollywood stars, but they are in good shape, well-dressed, professionally successful and probably more emotionally stable than most men in their 20's.

People (women, usually) ask: why do guys pursue much younger women? They seem to ignore the it-takes-two-to-tango fact. Older men couldn't date much younger women if younger women weren't willing to date much older men, and a fair number of women seem willing to do just that.

I'm one of those guys who has never had an interest in much younger women. Sure, they have much nicer bodies and are great to look at, but the lack of maturity and life experience is a big turn-off to me. The biggest age gap I've ever had was with a woman who was eleven years younger and I'd didn't pursue her; she pursued me. The last woman I was with (and was crazy about) was seven years younger but she responded to an online ad I placed.

Julie again: People are always going to push the envelope a bit if they see an ad that appeals to them...

I would agree that's very common but, of course, how far people push varies. If I saw an ad from a woman who seem very interesting, I might respond if her maximum age was 1-2 years below my age, but probably not if it was more than that.

lovelysoul: but older rich guys figure their money will compensate for their age, and they're often right.

Absolutely.

Jack: Despite what you hear, a woman over 35 who's kept herself together, and isn't a basket case, can write her own ticket. They're like the Unicorns of the dating world.

I suspect that many women probably feel the same way about men over 35. The fact is that very desirable people of either sex, the kind that can write their own ticket, are a small minority, no matter what their age group.

Based on my observation of people in the city where I live (Seattle), older men do, in general, seem to be in better physical shape than older women so I think it's harder (at least here) for men to find an older woman who's in good shape than vice-versa.

I don't think the percentage of older women who are in good mental & emotional shape is any different than the percentage of older men.

Another agreement with John McLeish. When I divorced several years ago, I was sort of shocked to learn how many women (in a large age range) I could date as a shortish, average-looking guy. But apparently the 20-to-30-something dating market isn't exactly flooded with men who own a home and a decent car, know how to order a bottle of wine, have enough money to pick up a drink tab, can dance a few steps, can cook a meal that didn't come out of the freezer, have read something other than a comic book, don't dress like a complete schlub, and don't spend the whole weekend in front of a gaming console.

I remain a little embarrassed for a lot of guys my age because an appalling number of single women have told me that most men have none of the above qualities/abilities. I just consider them basic life skills every man should possess.

I feel so horrible for this poor little thing, a man with money, experience and character has Asked.Her.Out! How awful! He made her say NO! How terrible! *snicker*

She would most likely have a cow if she saw me and my husband. The age gap between us is ATTROCIOUS! (for the record, I'm older than he is)

Her bias is mild considering, but hey, if she doesn't want to date someone, all she has to do is politely decline. Getting rude (Gross, really?) is kinda childish.

I'm amused at the characterization of this as a "shocking trend." Yes, Virginia, old men hit on young women. If you promise not to tell anyone, I'll let you in on another secret: sometimes young women actually like to date much older men. I know, right? What possible reason could they have...

Yeah, my grandparents got married in 1912. She was 20, he was 40. Kind of a long "trend" line there.

My daughter was hostessing at a restaurant, and some "old" guys were flirting with her there.

LS - It's been my observation that men in the Southern half of the country will flirt with cute (or even not-so-cute) girls and women as little more than to pass the time. Most of the waitresses I know flirt right back, and get better tips that way. If they were in a bigger city, though, it might be more dangerous.

I've heard that it is better to be an old man's darling, than a young man's slave.

"Um Lobster, you DID just insult older women"

There's a huge, but massive difference between occasionally mentioning an ugly fact of life in a 'defensive' context like this, and throwing unnecessarily insults around that are hurtful.

"Um Lobster, you DID just insult older women"

Put another way, equate me to the LW when I start writing loudmouth letters to public columns where I make sure to mention not once but multiple times how "icked out" and "grossed out" and "shocked" I supposedly am by older women (and yes, I have been hit on by older women, and I have never taken such opportunities to insult anyone, because I have 'basic human decency', nor did I even think to make an issue out of it, because I have some adult perspective on life.) Snobs who lack decency and take it upon themselves to unnecessarily insult people to stroke their egos, however, I think invite at least a little perspective-shining.

Based on my observation of people in the city where I live (Seattle), older men do, in general, seem to be in better physical shape than older women so I think it's harder (at least here) for men to find an older woman who's in good shape than vice-versa.

That's been my observation as well, but I think that it's generally easier for men to stay in shape. Men also benefit from the fact that our older look is 'distinguished', while a woman's older look is just 'older'.

Her bias is mild considering, but hey, if she doesn't want to date someone, all she has to do is politely decline. Getting rude (Gross, really?) is kinda childish.

Right. What's funny is that she seems to expect that someone should step in and prevent these guys from doing this. They're just sending a 'wink'. It's not like she has to even acknowledge them. So what is the big deal?

But in her defense, some dating sites do make a big deal of 'matching' people though their 'matching' is usually a joke. So she might be assuming that the winkers are violating the terms of the service. Who knows.

I'd had a woman go off on me once because she had kids, but my profile stated that I didn't want to date women with kids. Apparently I was 'matched' with her, though I didn't even know it. She got pissed and accused me of all sorts of things. According to her, not wanting to date a woman with kids was evident of being a shallow loathsome person who's insecure and generally rotten. The funny thing is that I don't actually mind women with kids, but if you acknowledged that on the site, all you got were matches to women with kids. I guess that it was relatively rare. So I checked no and figured that I'd just contact these women on my own if I found one that I was interested in. I didn't end up dating the mom who went off on me. She seemed a little high maintenance ;)

Normal older men see rich and/or famous older men with hot young women and see only the older man part, not the rich and/or famous part,

My twenty-something daughter just pulled this on me the other day when we went out for breakfast. I'm mentioned this article and she said I needed to move to California and talked about her best friend's father who's latest wife is very hot, though only ten years younger than him, and that he knows how to treat women blah blah blah.

Me: And he has a boat.
Daughter: Well, there is that.
Me: And he can afford to buy whatever a woman fancies.
Daughter: Yeah, but....

At that point the conversation ended due to my granddaughter acting like a [very cute] monkey on acid.

There is a theory that girls like older men as they show "good genes."

If a guy has lasted a few decades, and still looks good, is virile, and productive, then he has good genes. If you bear children by this guy, they will inherit those good genes.

So, like it or not, young women dig older guys.

I dig that too.

I am a fifty year old woman who has dated younger & older men than myself throughout my adult life. I am livid & discussed when I see old men trying to lure in young women. I am equally outraged when I see older women trying to throw themselves at young men. I have two grown adult sons ( 21 & 30). I have single women friends who are around my age or up to 10-12 years younger. Point is that all friends ( either male or female) have children older than the young ones they are trying to engage in sex. How would you feel as a Parent if someone was doing this to your son or daughter?? How do you think you kids would feel if they brought a a friend over to meet you and you hit on their friend - cause you thought " he /she" was hot. DOES ANYONE HAVE SHAME ANYMORE?????