I never understood what the big deal was about going to concerts alone...or any other cultural event. "I have no one to go with!"

Well, so what? If you want to see it, go.

I agree Patrick. In fact, I prefer to go shows and concerts alone sometimes because I don't have to talk or analyze anything with anyone. I can just enjoy the show, and then go home to my husband (who's not into that scene) or meet a girl friend after for a drink.
However, I do always get that "poor girl, she couldn't get a date look" and I in return give the "poor you, you don't have enough self esteem to just enjoy your own company" look.

Hah, another example of Amy's favorite topic: "Men who don't make their move until it's too late!" LW should have asked her out on a casual date a while ago. If he had, he wouldn't be sweating now.

Now, now, let's ask the important question:
what Gregg (yes, that imaginary bf of the Goddess) would do in this situation?

Gift her an iPad before inviting her to the concert?
Give her a long wet kiss after ordering a latte?

I'm right there with Patrick and Sabrina. If I don't have someone to go to a show with me, I go alone. Not a big deal, and I almost always run into someone I know.

Oh, Goddess! Unasked for advice is twice as dear.

If a girl interprets roses as a romantic autopilot or as a bribe from a needy loser, I never approach her again. This "gift to a stranger" ruse works really well to filter out all those whose cranium is hollowed out by feminazi cockroaches. A girl who is in touch with her feminine side would see roses a sign "he is interested in romance."

I disagree on the dinner thing. You're gonna want to eat before you go. However you should spin it as "grabbing something to eat" and go someplace non-fancy. Preferably something along the road on the way to the concert.

Roses on the first date is strange. Most girls don't perceive themselves as so irresistable that a man would dump loads of money on them, and would wonder if they are out of this guy's league. And the girls who DO know they are super hot would just take it for granted.

On the other hand... when I lived in SF I had season tickets to the Opera (they had special deals for young people to introduce us to the Opera, bad seats in the back.) I invited a young man to come with me. He showed up with a rose and a brownie, saying that Opera was the type of experience that should engage all the senses... including odor and taste. That was kind of cool.

But then, I bought the tickets. I think he bought dinner, I don't remember. It was a long time ago.

Roses generally would generally come around the third date or so if I recall correctly. I still have a faded rose from the first bouquet my husband got me.

One of my female friends works at a coffee place (has for years), so she's pretty much seen it all as far as guys asking her out goes. The successful ones pretty much followed Amy's advice -- talking her up a few times, then asking her to do something casual and cheap and seeing where that takes them.

The most successful guy did the following: came in a few times a week and talked with her; began flirting with her; asked her if she wanted to grab a beer on St. Patrick's day after her shift; found out what music she liked; dropped off a mix CD for her at work; asked her out to a dinner and a play. The whole "operation" lasted about three weeks.

And I'm glad I'm not the only person to go to concerts alone. If you buy a single ticket, you can often snag a better seat. And you don't have to deal with dragging a person along who is just NOT into it and is checking their watch during the encore and mumbling stuff about "leaving now so we can beat traffic." Ugh that's the worst.

Re: Mere Mortal's comment about a woman's "interpretations" of his gift

Any woman with dating experience may also think a guy is a desperate creeper who is trying to blind you from his "dark side" by showering you with "romantic" gifts.
I think it is weird behavior to "overgift" so soon after meeting someone. I have been presented with gifts that were too pricey or too personal for a first, second or fifth date.
Makes me nervous!

@Moopy Any woman with dating experience may also think a guy is a desperate creeper who is trying to blind you from his "dark side" by showering you with "romantic" gifts.

She may, but that means she was blind to everything else going during the date. It means she read Andrea Dworkin before going to sleep. Ergo she is to be avoided.

@NicoleK

Yes, any girl who thinks she is not worthy 3 roses on a first date shall be sold as a sex slave to pirates.

Am I alone in liking the idea of a first date that allows for conversation (which a concert does not), but gives you both something to focus on other than staring at each other and wondering if you look okay? The guy my mom wound up going steady with after she divorced my dad asked Mom to go to an art show down at Navy Pier. Struck me as just about perfect -- casual, inexpensive, plenty of fodder for chat.

For co-workers, "Want to get a drink?" is great, you just walk out of the building and into a local bar. But not every first date is between co-workers, and to me "Want to meet me for a drink?" is a lot less casual, and a little more forced.

oh, mere mortal...

you're that creepy guy who winked & slipped me his phone number on the napkin with the doughnut at starbucks aren't you?

i would like to take this opportunity to thank you for never approaching me again.

Flowers on a first date? It all depends. Is this a blind first date, or an internet first date, where we have literally never met before? Then I'd think the gesture was creepy. Is it a first date with someone I met briefly - say, at a bookstore, or at a bar, etc., but who I don't really know at all? Then I'd think it was creepy unless the guy is especially charming/good looking. Is it a first date with someone I know fairly well, through friends or whatever, but whom I've yet to know in a romantic context? In that case, if I already made up my mind that I like the guy, the flowers would be romantic. If I was still unsure about him, the flowers would be creepy. So you see, it really all depends on how I feel about the guy BEFORE the flowers, which is why it's ill advised to bring them to a first date - where most of the time, most people are still relatively undecided.

@Jess Flowers on a first date? It all depends. Is this blah? Then I'd think the gesture was creepy. Is it blah? Then I'd think it was creepy unless blah. Is it ... If I was still unsure about him, the flowers would be creepy.

As BOTU would say:

What creeps out American women?
...
Everything.

@hahahatud you're that creepy guy who winked & slipped me his phone number on the napkin with the doughnut at starbucks aren't you?

No, I never waste a perfectly good napkin on your kind.

I never thought I would live to see the day I sort of agreed with Mere Mortal, but...

Really, flowers on the first date aren't a sign of a creepy serial killer stalker unless you decide they are. My husband brought me a single rose on our first date. We met on Match.com and had spoken and emailed for a few weeks before we met. He was also wonderfully funny and nice on that date. The rose was a sweet, romantic gesture, but the awesomeness of the guy is what made me want to go out again.

An inexpensive bouquet of wildflowers or a single rose is not overkill.

I'm genuinely curious: Is it the money? Because buying me a large latte at Starbucks easily could have cost him as much that rose. Why is a $4 coffee not weird but a rose is?

I think it is weird behavior to "overgift" so soon after meeting someone. I have been presented with gifts that were too pricey or too personal for a first, second or fifth date. Makes me nervous!

Me too. I think it's best to get to know someone before giving them a gift (whether you're male or female). That way, the message is: "I've taken the time to become familiar with your interests, and I thought you might enjoy this."

But if you give a gift to a stranger on the first date the message becomes, "Women like this and are impressed by it, or so I've heard. Here, woman, enjoy this item that I have heard women like/are impressed by."

But Mere Mortal makes a good point that it would be a shame to discount someone because they make a well-intentioned gesture that leads to a bad first impression. Had my current boyfriend and I met as strangers and had he given me a rose at our first meeting, what would I have done?

Honestly, though, my current BF would NEVER have brought a rose to the first date. He's more the type to approach a date like a friendship and keep things light and fun before pouncing, so to speak. I prefer that. A guy who bring roses, however, might be looking for a more sentimental woman who likes romantic gestures and prefers guys who make it known that they, too, are romantic. In that case, I say bring all the roses you want -- because it'll help you find a like-minded gal and weed out the ones (like me) who might think a rose is coming on too strong.

@Amy Gifts should be a show of feeling from one person to another.

May be they should, but they are not.
No amount of wishful attempts to re-invent the world will change that.

It is amazing how much misery American women create for themselves. You girls need more real problems to solve instead of "whether second or third date is appropriate for flowers".

Overgift and you're likely to be seen as desperate or clueless.

Yeah, a rose from a stranger on a first date would weird me out, definitely. I know a few women who would LOVE the gesture, though. If a guy wants a woman who's going to be head-over-heels for his grocery store rose, then he should bring a rose to every date so that he can find the right girl. But what he should NOT do is complain that most women aren't interested in a second date. Or blame women in general.

I know a few women who would LOVE the gesture

I think a lot of this boils done to some of the complaints I've heard about "stalker" behavior in general. It's not creepy if she likes the guy, but it is creepy if she doesn't.

Men should go with their instincts. In the case of my first date with my husband, there was no plausible deniability if things didn't work out: We were both shopping for love on the Internet. So assuming I was into him wasn't a stretch.

Approaching it from a practical point of view, you don't want to give a girl a flower (or worse, a bouquet) that she'll feel obligated to carry around all night.

Amy,

You've left out a fourth option beyond desperate, clueless, and on romantic autopilot. That option is the one in which Mere Mortal seems to fit: schmuck.

It's not creepy if she likes the guy, but it is creepy if she doesn't.

It's not sexual harassment if she thinks the guy is attractive either.

So what you're saying is we have to know if she likes us before we can find out if she likes us. Could you women just start putting signboards on your heads that report your feelings? Or would they be unreadable from changing so fast?

http://www.funnyhub.com/videos/pages/sexual-harassment-and-you.html

lujlp,

Basically that is exactly what the women are saying. "If I'm cool with you, you can stick your tongue down my throat. If I'm not, owning a Greek Island won't do you any good."*

*However, it seems that a lot of women find Island owning the mark of a confident and attractive man. Funny how that works...

So what you're saying is we have to know if she likes us before we can find out if she likes us.

No, I'm saying that that's a complaint I've heard from men in trying to figure out what constitutes a stalker. I've never been stalked, so I wouldn't know from personal experience.

However, since most men are not accused of stalking OR sexual harassment, I'd also argue that it's pretty easy to figure out. If she seems scared or annoyed, leave her alone. She's either not interested or her social skills are so poor that it's easier to move on.

you're that creepy guy who winked & slipped me his phone number on the napkin with the doughnut at starbucks aren't you?

I was thinking that he was that guy in the Progressive commercials who rides around with the Flo bobblehead doll, but then again, you probably know him better than I do...

"Really, flowers on the first date aren't a sign of a creepy serial killer stalker unless you decide they are."

Yeah, and years later those women will probably be talking about how they never met a decent guy.

Really, flowers on the first date aren't a sign of a creepy serial killer stalker unless you decide they are.

I'll say it on this thread now: attitude matters. If you act like you feel you have to bring flowers so she'll like you, then that's what she'll think. If you act like a normal human being and don't come off desperate or needy, then she'll write it off as a social convention or just a nice thing to do ("she" being an emotionally mature and stable person, of course). The point of the advice not to bring flowers is it helps your odds more than bringing them does.

To answer the LW's question, tell the waitress you "just nabbed a couple of tickets" to the concert. Then ask her if she's interested. Keep it very casual. Dinner isn't inappropriate but make sure it is something on the way and also very casual. A trip to Five Guys, not drive thru at Taco Bell.

Don't be surprised if she says no. This is not an ideal approach to get a first date. It might work, though.

Just remember, creepy desperate stalker mojo = bad.

Have fun and keep it light.

I don't see an issue with the concert; I've gone to several concerts on first dates with no apparent ill effects. Actually, my first date with the current woman was a Bruce Springsteen show. Did I fete her with a five-course meal before the show, though? Hell no. It was nachos and a beer at the Yardhouse, then on to see the Boss.

A concert or sporting event is a pretty good way to score a first date as long as you don't make a big deal about it, and you know the woman at least a little. "Hey, I scored some tickets for the Dbacks game this weekend. Wanna join me?" In my experience, most women will say yes to an event if they find you at least halfway appealing.