One of the HOTTEST bass players I ever knew was Jewish. I absolutely adored him. Various members of his family let me know that as a shiksa, he would never marry me, no matter how long I hung around. Sadly, they were right. Maybe some Jewish guys don't care, and marry their shiksas, but not this one. He knew his family would have made my life hell. He married a nice Jewish girl and has a shiksa on the side. (Not me. I wanted all or nothing. He wanted something else.)

and then the relationship gets serious and her parents lay on the pressure

If I were the LW, I wouldn't get my hopes too high. Not many people are really willing, when it gets down to it, to stand up to their parents. I had a disagreement with my father about a gf once - in this case not religion, just that she was a country girl and not as educated as he would like. He thought it would harm my career to not have a trophy wife, never mind that she was the nicest, most well spoken, and social person you could hope to meet. I went home and told her she never had to go to a family function ever again if she didn't want to and that I would cop the flak.

I'd say to the LW, if you happen to meet a nice Jewish girl through a general dating site, fine, maybe it will work out. But steer clear of JDate - you might get lucky but odds are you're setting yourself up for failure. There are plenty of other options.

Various members of his family let me know that as a shiksa, he would never marry me, no matter how long I hung around.

This reminds me of something Taub once said on House, in response to Amber (aka Cutthroat Bitch) propositioning him: Shiksas are for practice. Meant humorously, but it has a grain of truth. All kinds of people are willing to date people they would never marry. They are the ones that have different criteria for both, as opposed to those who wouldn't continue to date anyone they wouldn't marry. To bring it back to the LW, he should know what his chances are. Like Ltw said, don't make JDate your only dating site. Maybe you'll find someone, but you should be prepared to accept the consequences.

I had a friend once NumberSix with a serious Madonna/whore complex. He liked sleeping around, but of course he was never serious about them. They'd hang around a year or so hoping (he's a good manipulator) then it would all end in tears. The ones who held out on him he worshiped. It was like by sleeping with him they automatically got put out of contention. In the end I couldn't stand watching it anymore and ended all contact, despite lots of mutual friends.

My dad's father came from a Jewish family, one that was proud to trace their heritage (so I'm told) all the way back to the original tribes of Israel. His family disowned him when he married my German grandmother. Parental pressure can be intense.

One of my best friends (a Jewish dude) has done a lot of J-Dating and has entered into a couple of longer term relationships through the site. Most of the women he met on there were NOT Jewish and for the most part they were pretty cool (gentile) people just looking for an alternative to the Match.com meat market.

That said, and of course this is anecdotal, but my friend is an atheist & his family is chill so there would be no risk of pressure in that regard. I'm not sure where LW lives, but around here (NYC) there are MANY self-proclaimed 'bad jews' who just want to meet someone compatible and religion is NOT a deal-breaker. My Jewish friends are all well educated and super fun to be around and many of them date/marry outside of their religion with no visible conflicts. I say give JDate a try.

Come to think of it, my buddy actually had LESS success with the Jewish girls he met on JDate. We suspected that maybe they were more likely to be the type to be on JDate looking for doctors and lawyers. We are artists, so...yeah. Great fun, but not gonna be able to pay for everything all the time, if that's what you're looking for.

Nikky wrote:

"My dad's father came from a Jewish family, one that was proud to trace their heritage (so I'm told) all the way back to the original tribes of Israel."

Umm, with the exception of converts, every Jew can trace his heritage "all the way back to the original tribes of Israel." That's one definition of being Jewish. We are either of the tribe of Levi (including Kohanim), Judah, or Benjamin (the two tribes that remained after the destruction of the Northern Kingdom shortly after Solomon's reign). Some Indian and Ethiopian Jews claim descent from other tribes (e.g. Dan), but the claim is far from settled.

Start here: Ten Lost Tribes of Israel.

"Not many people are really willing, when it gets down to it, to stand up to their parents."

It depends on the people involved. My in-laws survived Hiroshima, and understandably weren't thrilled to have their youngest daughter marry a soon-to-be-unemployed American Marine and move 8000 miles away to a foreign country, for some odd reason. Actually, her brother and sister were more opposed. They've all since come around. Time and grandchildren will do that.

I know another girl whose father never spoke to her again after she married an American. It's a shame, she is simply a wonderful person and that caused her a lot of pain. He's died since, so there is no fixing this problem.

I also knew the daughter of a Buddhist monk who broke up with her Canadian boyfriend because of parental opposition. It depends on the people.

It does depend, and there's always some who will. Paradoxically, the major, life-changing, move continents/cultures/etc decisions seem to be easier than the little ones. How many people end up wheedling their spouses with "come on, honey, it's only dinner with my parents, yes I know they hate you but it's only a few hours" rather than have a confrontation?

I think it matters why the LW is interested in JDate. Most likely he is seeking certain qualities that he believes Jewish men/women (don't know if he is straight or gay) are disproportionately likely to have. If that's the case, there may be more efficient ways to filter for people with those qualities than signing up for JDate. But I suppose it would depend on what, precisely, he is looking for.

The NYT did an article on this topic a while back that covers some of the more common stereotypes: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/05/fashion/05DATE.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&position=

"The reasons non-Jews seek Jewish mates vary in their particulars, but generally seem to come down to the old idea of the nice Jewish boy or girl."

Opposites attract, and this sometimes makes for entertaining japanimation videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BA-75niyNg&feature=related

Un Amor Imposible

"One of the HOTTEST bass players I ever knew was Jewish. I absolutely adored him. Various members of his family let me know that as a shiksa, he would never marry me, no matter how long I hung around."

Well, Shannon Tweed finally changed his mind... it took a LONG time.

I married the shiksah. Its awesome.

He married a nice Jewish girl and has a shiksa on the side.

Well technically it is the oldest form of marrige, marry who your parents want to provide the familly an heir and sleep around with whomever you want and try not to leave any bastards lying in your wake

Well, Shannon Tweed finally changed his mind... it took a LONG time.

No no Raddy, it wasn't Gene Simmons I'm talkin' about (and I don't find him hot at ALL!).

Flynne: Maybe some Jewish guys don't care, and marry their shiksas, but not this one.

Three of my best friends here in Seattle are from NYC or nearby (Long Island) and two of them are Jewish. Both of the Jewish guys married women who weren't Jewish. The wife of one of them converted, but I don't think he required that as a condition of marriage.

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Ltw: Not many people are really willing, when it gets down to it, to stand up to their parents.

I wonder just how true that is? Personally, I'd bet that a majority of people would go ahead and marry someone even if their parents disapproved, although I agree with you that some people would give in. My older sister, one of the most "obedient" children you could ever imagine (e.g. of my four siblings and I, she was the one to never give my parents any trouble) didn't cave in to our parents' wishes that she not marry her Baptist boyfriend (we were Lutheran.)

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NumberSix: "All kinds of people are willing to date people they would never marry."

Very true. It's possible, of course, that the LW just wants to find temporary love on JDate.

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Lori: My Jewish friends are all well educated and super fun to be around... Come to think of it, my buddy actually had LESS success with the Jewish girls he met on JDate. We suspected that maybe they were more likely to be the type to be on JDate looking for doctors and lawyers.

Jewish people I know, including those two good friends of mine, don't tend to be any more well-educated than other people I know but I would say they tend to have a much sharper wit, and that's something I really enjoy. In general, I find Jewish women very attractive but I think that has less to do with them being Jewish per se than it has to do with me being attracted to the Mediterranean look. On the other hand, while women in general are into money and status in men, Jewish women I've met have tended to be even more into that.

Odd Manischewitz Out

Amy, one of my favorite things about your columns is the puns in the headings. I loved this one (and also loved "and before you know it, you're getting dumped for Shlomo McShlomowitz.")

Sad story to relate... in the mid-90s, one of my Jewish ex-New Yorker friends invited me to a party. Turned out to be mostly Jewish people there and I ended up hitting it off with a woman, who I dated for a few months (she's the only Jewish woman I ever dated.) She was from NYC, from a very well-off Upper East Side family, and had been making a lot of money back there in real estate. But she decided to chuck all that and move to Seattle to become a naturopath (our local John Bastyr school is one of the top naturopathic schools in the country.) She loved Seattle but wanted to bring the naturopathic gospel back to the East Coast -- where she said it didn't have much acceptance -- so she told me she was going to move back there after graduation. We did not stay in touch but I always assumed she had moved back there like she planned.

A few years later, I met and began dating another woman attending Bastyr. In the fall of 1998, she told me that their school newsletter had an article about a former Bastyr student on the East Coast who had died in the crash of Swissair Flight 111, on the way from NYC to Geneva. Before she even said the name, my heart sank because I just knew it was this same woman (and it was.)

Why good people like this get tapped by the grim reaper while plenty of jerks live long lives is one of the great mysteries of life.

I have the sense that the renewed pressure on young Jews to marry other Jews is somewhat recent. Jewish boomers intermarried at a much higher rate than their parents and this has apparently provoked anxieties that American Jewry is being diluted. So younger Jews are new expected to tow the line and only marry other Jews.

But frankly you're better off to avoid marrying someone whose family is opposed to having a gentile in the family. In my experience, a lot of Jews have a blind spot when it comes to their bigotry towards gentiles, and especially white protestants. They're not going to put this aside simply because you're married to a member of their family.

LW, you can actually make a JDate profile that explicitly says you're not Jewish, and not looking to convert. If you're going to sign up for JDate, do that--be open about your religion, don't hide it in the hope that a prospective girlfriend will be willing to accept a major religious difference after she gets to know you.

Now, that probably will lower your success rate on JDate by a lot. So you probably want to try another internet dating site. I recommend OKCupid--free, large number of people in the 25-35 age group, and more fun. It's where I met my fiance (she's not Jewish, I am). Good luck!

I'm not Jewish, but found my Jewish husband on JDate. We have been happily married almost 5 years. If you are expecting to find a woman willing to convert, don't bother with JDate.

But if you are willing to be part of the Jewish experience, it could be a great idea. I am Christian and always will be, but I attend the High Holy Days services with his family. I am there for Passover Seder and Chanukkah party, and we light the Shabbat candles together on Friday. He is happy to participate in Christmas and Easter with me. So, I meet him more than halfway, and this works great for us. His family loves me very much, and I am totally accepted into this wonderful Jewish family. I think that one reason is because I love my husband being Jewish; I don't want him to change.

There are many similarities between the Jewish and Christian faiths, so I am comfortable participating in his faith without either of us trying to convert the other. Are you? And there are a number of interfaith couples that are members of the Reform synagogue. You will disocver that it is much easier to be a Christian that attends a Reform synagague, than a Jew who attends a church (where the pressure to "get saved" can be intense.) You may even discover that attending a Reform Jewish synagague will fulfill your spiritual needs just fine. A romance between you and a Conservative or Orthodox Jew is doomed, so stick with those ladies who are Reform.

The interfaith marriages that have children and succeeded were those that either celebrated everything, or where both adults decided on one faith. I would say, give JDate a try, but do so with an open mind and see how it goes.