Poach Class
Two male friends who know I'm happily married have made a pass at me recently. One's kind of a player, so...whatever. The other I considered a very good friend (of seven years), and I find myself remarkably angry with him. Some friend. I feel like posting a blog item, "I have never been unfaithful to my husband and never will be."
--Betrayed
When one dog tries to hump another, it generally isn't because he finds the other dog ethically sketchy. I get that you aren't a chihuahua with computer privileges, but there's a good chance the thought process for these guys was dog-humpingly deep. I had you send me your photo, and you're gorgeous. Men make passes at women who are blindingly attractive -- and not necessarily because they devalue them as friends or think they'll be quick to toss their wedding ring on another man's night table. Sometimes, impulse, dirty martinis, desperation, and seven years of a woman's hotitude just come to a head. This isn't to say you should excuse what these guys did or continue being friends with them if that's painful, but it may help to understand that the calculation here may not have involved a comprehensive risk/benefit analysis...beyond you're beautiful and they're drunk, and if they're going to be relegated to meaningless anonymous sex, they'd like it to be with you.








I get where you're coming from, LW, but you know what? Just let it go. Don't be friends with them anymore, if that's what you want, but it was a compliment, them making a pass at you. Don't make a big deal out of it. Just accept it. Hell, had it been me, I would've been flattered. Squicked out a little, maybe, but flattered nonetheless. There are worse things that could happen.
Flynne at December 27, 2011 7:14 PM
Flynne said "squicked".
Crid [CridComment at gmail] at December 27, 2011 10:39 PM
"I get that you aren't a chihuahua with computer privileges, but there's a good chance the thought process for these guys was dog-humpingly deep."
O. M. G.
Earl Grey spray!
LW, I was told by my father for all my young life that I was ugly. Like... he said that same thing every damn day. So, when guys made passes at me in my teens and young married life, I was convinced that they were pervs figuring that they could AT LEAST score the ugly girl. And, when my ex asked me to marry him, daddy-dearest told me that I'd better accept because nobody else would ever want me and he couldn't figure out why THIS guy did! (can you believe I didn't shed a tear when i found out daddy-the-asshole was dead?)
And then... after many years of this behavior from guys, I sent a photo to a fellow I met online (a pizza-making website where we were all very dedicated to the hobby) and he told me I was GORGEOUS! He'd never met me in person and probably never will. I asked my present hubby of almost 22 years if HE thought I was "gorgeous" and he said.... "haven't I been telling you that for YEARS??"
I had never believed him. I never understood why he wanted to marry me. Thanks, dad.
Perhaps you should cut your male friends some slack. You may not realize just how beautiful you are (as Amy indicates!) and that may make you irresistible to those friends who YOU think are platonic!
I agree with everything Amy said. If you can't get over it, cut 'em loose. If they're good enough friends, it won't matter... and you should be flattered.
cathyem at December 27, 2011 11:07 PM
Men will be men. LW, trust me, if you're even somewhat attractive, even those (straight) guys who you like to THINK don't want to bang you, are thinking about doing so, just secretly. Basically every one of them (unless they're gay). Either stick to having gay male friends only, or get over it ... I really don't see the big deal as to why to actually be angry with a guy for being a guy. This must be one of those 'female thinking' things that are just incomprehensible to me. That you're actually angrier with the guy who has had the character to hold himself together for seven years seems wrong, and that you hold other men to different standards seems hypocritical to me. I've been in the 'reverse' situation and it would never occur to me to be 'angry'.
@cathyem Sounds like an ex-girlfriend of mine - she was told by her mother constantly since she was a baby (and into her adulthood) that she was ugly. But she was actually damn hot. But she could never get it into her head that she was attractive, despite men hitting on her all the time, and despite my telling her otherwise 'for years', and despite the fact that she even did some modelling, she found ways to rationalize all of that away and go back to thinking she's ugly. I don't know if she ever got over that.
Lobster at December 28, 2011 1:49 AM
I can see why angry. "very good friend" Usually means he know some pretty intimate details. That would be kind of a betrayal. However he's only guilty of being in discrete nothing more.
As a guy most of us think of riding our female friends unless they are crown royal cask level ugly. Which changes after said cask has been finished. Unless he's gay or you're butt ugly and he's Mormon it's crossed his mind.
I'm curious could there be a reason both guy made a pass at out of the blue? Maybe you confided in one or both of them about something that should only be shared with girlfriends or a shrink.
vlad at December 28, 2011 7:15 AM
The letter writer sounds like a real whiner. You're hot, they're guys, of course they are going to take a shot if even if they think they only have a slim chance.
If your relationship with your husband is sound advances by other guys shouldn't matter. However if your relationship is on the rocks and won't survive; they are doing you a favor by helping you move on and avoid wasting years of your life with someone you aren't compatible with. In my opinion this makes their attempts helpful at best and redudant at worse.
What matters is if they were respectful about it or not. Did they try to do it smoothly and discreetly, or did they text you a picture their naughty rod that could cause a ton of trouble with your husband?
Also have you considered the possibility that they don't view you strictly platonically, and you may just be using them as an emotional tampon while your husband gets to do all the 'fun' stuff? Just saying. I know being a gorgeous woman is such a hard lot in life, but; it's better then the alternatives.
Mike Hunter at December 28, 2011 11:04 AM
Whatever you do, please do not blog, facebook, or tweet about how you never plan to be unfaithful to your husband. It's such a passive-aggressive, teenage, attention-whore thing to do. Not to mention it's not a particularly effective way of getting your point across. Feel free to rant about it to your best friend, therapist, husband--or even, you know, say something directly to the guy himself--but please don't spill your guts to the entire internet blog world.
Shannon at December 28, 2011 4:50 PM
"I feel like posting a blog item, 'I have never been unfaithful to my husband and never will be.'"
Really bad idea. If you have to post it, who are you trying to convince? Lady doeth protest too much, and all that.
Furthermore, things I will never do are generally left unmentioned by me in any forum, as they never much flicker across my consciousness. I will never rob a bank. Does it make sense to announce my lack of interest in armed crime on narcissism.com if some fool suggests we engage in a bank robbery together?
By posting that I will not rob banks, what associations are made in readers' minds?
Spartee at December 28, 2011 6:25 PM
vlad beat me to the question of the day - what are the odds, and therefore the reason, two close friends made a pass out of the blue in such close proximity?
lujlp at December 28, 2011 7:50 PM
Note how she signs as "Betrayed". Drama queen ..
Lobster at December 28, 2011 11:29 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2011/12/poach-class.html#comment-2882118">comment from LobsterHave to admit, Lobster, that was me -- most people don't sign or sign really dumb names that don't reflect their problem. I sign sometimes as reflects the whole of their email.
Amy Alkon
at December 28, 2011 11:43 PM
"I feel like posting a blog item, 'I have never been unfaithful to my husband and never will be.'"
That will be taken as a challenge. Pass on the impulse.
MarkD at December 29, 2011 6:49 AM
I have never had a friendship with a single female lasting more than a year that didn't result in sex. This is what happens between men & women, there is always an attraction inbalance.
nuzltr2 at December 29, 2011 7:17 AM
Mike Hunter brings up a good point, LW. You say of the one who is not "a player", "I considered a very good friend (of seven years)...". Are you sure what kind of friend this person has been? Has he been one who supports you when you get angry with your husband? Has he been someone who does things for you at the expense of his own time and resources, with no words to express an expectation of reciprocity, no matter how much effort was involved? If so, your "good friend" may very well be one of the "nice" guys who lurk in the background hoping to get some when you finally realize how "nice" they are.
Now, you say that both of these friends hit on you recently. That's kind of coincidental, isn't it? Did you perhaps have some sort of huge fight with your husband which might have led them to believe that you might leave him? On the other hand, if the one has been following you like a puppy for a long time, hoping you'd see what a nice guy he was and come to him, the player may very well have seen that and pushed him into going for it.
Or, like some have suggested, alcohol could be involved...
WayneB at December 29, 2011 9:14 AM
The goddess writes: Sometimes, impulse, dirty martinis, desperation, and seven years of a woman's hotitude just come to a head.
Which head? (To think I almost missed that.)
Patrick at December 29, 2011 4:27 PM
"Have to admit, Lobster, that was me "
OK, though the LW's behavior sounds a little drama-queeny to me either way .. posting passive-aggressive attention-seeking comments on her blog because some men behaved like men (as predictably as the sun comes up) and hit on her? It's like she wants to believe she's the center of her own little drama when nothing has happened to her. I agree with WayneB, I think this 'friend' was in her fan club and I find it hard to believe that a grown-up attractive woman would not have realized this long ago.
Lobster at December 30, 2011 12:48 AM
Posting on her blog is not just attention-seeking but egotistical .. 'ooh look at me, I'm so hot, all the men want me but sorry I'm unattainable!' ... she claims these are both 'friends' but holds them to different standards, I think probably she acted like she didn't mind when the player hit on her (of course she didn't, she loves the ego-stroking attention, but rationalizes it as "whatever") .. I'm guessing friend number two saw that she didn't mind being hit on by other men and also took his chance. Now after dangling the bait to get their attention she pulls back into 'I'm unattainable' and pretends to be offended - bait and bash, bait and bash. I've seen this type of behavior before in women of particular moral character.
Lobster at December 30, 2011 12:54 AM
First off - Men, If you know she is married do not hit on her. Period.
Second - Women do not treat your platonic male friends like your girlfriends. Any man that will listen to you pour your heart out, is looking for something different more than friendship or he is gay. Guys rarely have friendships like that.
Third - Guys will be guys? Oh PLEASE, that has been used to excuse bad behavior since time began. Men are adults and guess what they should be able to keep their fantasies about their married friends to themselves.
Fourth - LW, If you are flirting with your guy friends, STOP IT! Either that or stop getting offended when they respond to your flirting like any hetero guy would. If you need to flirt with me who will not hit on you, find some nice gay men to flirt with.
Fifth - Grow a thicker skin, men are not like women, occasionally this is going to happen. Put on your big girl panties and let them down nicely then go on with your life. Really this is a little thing to write about, unless your good friend tried to force you into something physical.
I have lots of male friends, they are platonic but we are all careful not to cross the line. I do not flirt with them and they do not hit on me. I have an SO who loves me and trusts me and who knows my male buddies are my skiing friends, my hiking friends, my kayaking friends, not my lovers he knows he is my only lover. Period. My guy friends know it too. A few have told him he is a lucky man, and one told me my SO is a lucky man.
Worthita at December 31, 2011 2:28 PM
Men make passes at women who are blindingly attractive...
Indeed they do, Amy. This is precisely what I was saying during our discussion back in late September. Are some men intimidated by very attractive women? Yes, of course. But there will always be men who will ask out/hit on a very attractive woman.
*
First off - Men, If you know she is married do not hit on her. Period.
Third - Guys will be guys? Oh PLEASE, that has been used to excuse bad behavior since time began. Men are adults and guess what they should be able to keep their fantasies about their married friends to themselves.
Glad to see you say that, Worthita. Hitting on a woman when you know she's married is the move of a guy who's a jerk.
Second - Women do not treat your platonic male friends like your girlfriends. Any man that will listen to you pour your heart out, is looking for something different more than friendship or he is gay.
I have to disagree. The key difference is: is the guy attracted to her? If he's not, then he's not going to want to get naked with her. A man can be "just friends" with a woman he's not attracted to.
*
What matters is if they were respectful about it or not.
Mike, if a guy knows a woman is married and he hits on her anyway, there's no "respect" involved.
Jim at January 2, 2012 10:49 AM
Given the statistics on how many women cheat on their husbands, hitting on the married women isn't such a bad strategy if you want some no-strings-attached sex.
Of course the beatings you'll get if you're caught doing it might be a disincentive.
brian at January 3, 2012 2:03 PM
Jim: Hitting on a woman when you know she's married is the move of a guy who's a jerk.
True!
How about the flip side: Married Guys, how many of you have been hit on when your ring is in plain sight?
What is up with that??
bbonw3 at January 5, 2012 3:27 PM
Thanks bbonw3. Hard to say why women hit on men who they know are married. But I tend to see this as part of same phenomenon where women will pay more attention to a man when he's with another woman than when he's by himself.
Jim at January 7, 2012 4:09 PM
It is odd that these come ons happened in a short period of time.
Anyone ask if these were friends of her husband as well?
Just a thought, she could be a very faithful wife who has had a long term monogamous marriage on her end. Anyone consider these guy friends may know something about her husband's faithfulness and see a crack in the veneer of this previously unbreakable, enviable marriage?
You don't have to be drop dead gorgeous for men to hit on you. I don't think every man's motivation is just to get in woman's pants.
Wanda at January 9, 2012 4:02 PM
The key in this case is the difference between pretty and gorgeous. Pretty people are accustomed to being hit on alot gorgeous people live in a bubble. Gorgeous people get free drinks, the best seats, and VIP access with nothing asked in return. People are just happy to give for the opportunity to be proximate. People are too intimidated to make a pass. People hope that playing the friend role will years later lead to more. So maybe the LW honestly can't be blamed for her ignorance. In all sincerity we created the bubble and put her in it. If we were in her place would any of us have the inate perceptiveness to see beyond the bubble? However the LW has indeed begun to ask questions that just hint at scratching the lining of the bubble. So i recommend she follow Kevin bacons lead. Have a makeup artist make a facial prosthetic forahoy. Go see how the rest of us live. Like him you ll probably be shocked at how rude people suddenly are and you ll never whine about your life again
To at April 11, 2012 2:13 PM
Unless he's gay or you're butt ugly and he's Mormon it's crossed his mind.
I'm a Mormon, and I guarantee it's crossed my mind - but that's also the reason, or one of the reasons, I'd never make that pass. Hitting on a married woman is wrong and disrespectful. It lacks, for lack of a better word, honor.
Grey Ghost at April 20, 2012 7:10 AM
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