Have A Peasant Day
Your answer to "Roseless," the woman bemoaning her boyfriend's lack of "romantic ambition," hit a nerve with me. My wife of 19 years and I shared equally in raising our three children. She only sort of "works" now, but I do the home chores and all the cooking -- while running a very stressful business that keeps her shopping habit afloat. She can buy all the expensive shoes she wants; however, like Roseless, she complains that I don't buy her flowers...enough. I don't write cute Post-it notes. When I have grudgingly bought flowers or left a note that I'm at the gym and drawn a heart on it, I've been amazed at how appreciative she's been. Well, I resent this. I'll cook a gourmet meal or be under the sink changing the garbage disposal, and I make enough money to put us in the 1 percent, but all that comes up short.
--Workhorse
You get no thanks for the 60-hour workweek, the cooking, the handymanning, but scrawl a heart on a sticky note and...you da man. When the disposal's on the fritz, it's got to be tempting to just write "xoxox" on scratch paper and stick it in the drain. Toilet overflowing? Shut the lid and slap a rose on top.
Your wife's longing for romantic trinketry can be explained by a quote from evolutionary psychologist Dr. David Barash: "Sperm are cheap. Eggs are expensive." This is shorthand for the physiological differences between men and women and the differing male and female psychologies that evolved out of them. A man can have sex with a woman and walk away, but a single sex act can leave a woman with mouths to feed. So, as I wrote to "Roseless," women evolved to seek commitment cues from men -- signs they're emotionally attached. Bringing home the bacon (and gourmet cooking it, too) is important, but what's essential to many women are all those sweetiepookiewookie shows of affection. In fact, you could say Hallmark is in the multibillion-dollar business of catering to female evolutionary adaptations. So, do keep drawing her those hearts and bunnies. "Want shoes with that?" you growl to yourself. And yes, it seems she does.
You'd like to point out that your chore wheel is not a Ferris wheel. Or is it? You mention that you're in "the 1 percent." If I were even in the 5 percent, I'd hire people to do just about everything for me except get out of bed. But, maybe you're secretly into feeling superior, so you keep silently slaving away and cling to your resentment like it's a pet.
The need to be right tends to be a stumbling block to being happy. Your marriage would probably be happier if you treated your problem wife like a problem employee (assuming you'd explain how he needs to improve, not throw flowers on his desk and storm out of his office in a huff). Take her to dinner and tell her you love her but have been feeling a little hurt. Tell her what you need: regular notice of and thanks for all you do to keep your life together running. Once you're feeling more appreciated, maybe you can ditch some of your John of Arc routine. You're rich! Hire a handyman! Spend Saturday having sexytime together in a swank hotel instead of feeling morally superior that she's out shoe shopping and you're under the sink snaking gunk out of the drain.








Gee, if I had a man who was keeping me "well heeled" I'd be making sure to write HIM the lovey-dovey sticky notes! This woman better smarten up and take a look over her shoulder....there's a LONG LINE of hungry women waiting to take her place!
Jan at March 27, 2012 4:40 PM
My mom says hiring a cleaning lady saved her marriage. Both my parents worked (still do), and they fought about chores a lot in the beginning. My mom has high cleaning standards but resented having to do the bulk of the chores while working a full time job. So they hired a cleaning lady. And au pairs who also cooked and did light housework. They still did chores around the house, but the burden was taken off.
My Dad is handy and can fix lots of stuff, so when it is a job that would be fun for him he does it, otherwise they hire someone.
Even if you're not rich, a cleaning person may be a possibility for you. When I was working my first job out of college I had a cleaning lady once a month on a barter system, I exchanged my HTML skills for her cleaning ones.
It's good, practical advice. It's nice to act all superior about how you would be so much nicer than this lady is, but fact is he's married to her, and it's her he needs to work out the problems with. Hiring a cleaner is a good solution.
I've got family friends where the wife is a very nice lady but totally useless. Doesn't work, cook, or clean. So they get take-out and are happy. (They told my parents that if there was a natural disaster they'd come live with them. My Dad blanched and was all, "The LAST people I'd want to be taking care of during armageddon is them, they'd be totally useless!" But he loves 'em.)
Anyhow, you'd be amazed how even someone coming once a month can make life so much easier. At least you know the place will be spotless, all you have to do is maintenance work.
NicoleK at March 28, 2012 12:18 AM
On the other hand, I've heard if you feel like you're doing 80% of the work, you're probably doing the right amount.
NicoleK at March 28, 2012 12:19 AM
@NicoleK: Exactly. Read her comment first, and second, and third.
"Tell her what you need: regular notice of and thanks"
This is also right on. As Amy points out, (many) women need to receive flowers, etc. - and there is nothing wrong with telling their men what they need.
To often we forget to turn this around. When guys do things like fixing the plumbing, frankly, it's mating behavior. Our "flowers" are the words of thanks and appreciation from the woman.
Women seem utterly unaware of this, but there's no reason they can't learn - just like we need to learn to buy flowers once in a while...
a_random_guy at March 28, 2012 1:06 AM
For the manosphere take on the issue, google for "Be a Skittles man".
Jet Tibet at March 28, 2012 3:37 AM
Nothing on mail order brides yet?
MarkD at March 28, 2012 4:47 AM
sweetiepookiewookie?????
*gaah!* LOL! That was too funny!!
Anyhoo, what NicoleK said. And BF and I are pretty much the same (except we're not in the 1% by any means!). He digs the garden and takes care of the outdoor household stuff, and I take care of the cleaning, cooking, laundry, etc. And he does help with that too; if he sees that the laundry basket is full, he'll bring it upstairs and start folding clothes. And he makes our Sunday morning breakfast, eggs with venison steaks, yum! I do the dishes. It works for us!
Flynne at March 28, 2012 5:55 AM
Dude, if you all you have to do is draw a heart on a post-it note...why the hell would you not do that?
Other parts of life work this way too. Your boss might take your 60 hour work week for granted, but you become the favorite employee because you talk about golf with him. College professor has no idea whether you're earning an A or a C, but you become the teacher's pet just for showing up to office hours once a month.
Some people never figure this stuff out. You figured it out, now stop whining and just do it. It will make both your lives easier (because now you can probably cut back on some of that toilet cleaning stuff)
Shannon at March 28, 2012 6:21 AM
Workhorse, you are my dream man! I am a practical girl and my DH is much like you. Competence turns me on, not flowers.
But, drawing a heart on a post-it isn't hard. Neither is setting up a standing order for delivery with the florist. Maybe stop doing some of the other things if you don't enjoy them. Put her on a shopping budget if it orks you that she spends. But if something so little on effort from you can make her so happy, you'd be a fool not to.
momof4 at March 28, 2012 6:43 AM
Neither is setting up a standing order for delivery with the florist.
I'm going to write a macro for Microsoft Outlook that sends an autogenerated mushy email every 3-5 days.
A guy at March 28, 2012 6:52 AM
She's shown him which type of "favor" she appreciates more. So why not give her more notes and trinkets--which is easy to do--and insist she take on more of the chores, which she'll be happier to do if she's romantically satisfied?
I learned a long time ago that most men would rather have frequent sex with a gym-toned body than a spotless home. It makes sense to allocate more energy to what makes him happy, and then when he's happy he's more willing to help with the other stuff.
(I figured that one of the first three comments would suggest that she's replaceable and better watch out.)
Insufficient Poison at March 28, 2012 7:24 AM
"She only sort of 'works' now, but I do the home chores and all the cooking -- while running a very stressful business that keeps her shopping habit afloat."
What everybody else said, plus: It seems like LW is keeping a scoreboard. Tallying up Who the Biggest Martyr Is always seemed like a mistake to me, escalating resentment and hurt feelings more than alleviating them.
Old RPM Daddy at March 28, 2012 7:26 AM
"Dude, if you all you have to do is draw a heart on a post-it note...why the hell would you not do that?"
It's mindboggling to what extent people will go to avoid making their partners happy.
I think there's more going on here than just him feeling underappreciated. It sounds more like jealousy. She "works" (in quotes) but he really works. He's resentful that she's enjoying the lifestyle he's providing.
Does he really love her? If you love someone you wouldn't resent that they're able to shop for shoes, or find sticky note hearts endearing. You'd just be happy that your partner is happy.
He actually should be grateful because a lot of wives in her situation wouldn't care about the heart, just the shoes. It sounds like she genuinely loves him.
LS at March 28, 2012 7:41 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/03/have-a-peasant.html#comment-3105678">comment from LSThe guy, sadly, wrote me a nasty and condescending response email to this column. An excerpt:
Way to happy up your marriage, dude!
Amy Alkon
at March 28, 2012 8:48 AM
"He actually should be grateful because a lot of wives in her situation wouldn't care about the heart, just the shoes. It sounds like she genuinely loves him."
Um, grateful? Is that really the word to apply? He should be grateful that in exchange for what he does, she still has an interest in him? Man, the bar for female contribution to marriage is dropping fast in these parts.
Granted this is only his side of the story, but it appears that he works, keeps house, provides well, etc.
His version is that she shops, doesn't do much around the house, and wants him to buy flowers and make her feel good. (Sweet deal, if you can find it. Where do I sign up?)
It sounds like, from this letter's one-sided presentation, she has certain wants regarding additional emotional satisfaction in the form of love tokens from him. But that is different from her "genuinely loving" him.
My guess is, yes, she does lvoe him, otherwise she would not be griping about it--women don't complain about lack of love tokens from guys they don't love, unless the gal is deeply narcissistic.
But this letter is from a guy saying "WTF!? I am doing more than she should expect, and this is what I get?! Demands to be still more attentive?" His is saying, "enough!"
Much like men get scolded for expecting sex from an aggrieved female spouse, women need to get scolded if the start heaping demands for smiley-face cards on a guy who feels he is pulling more than his fair share of real-world responsibilities. You don't get romance in such circumstances, because the warm feelings are not there, gals. Start doing some dishes, start saying some "thank yous", start worrying less about your flower deliveries and more about your spouse's sense of relationship imbalance. Then, after that, worry about the cards and flowers.
Spartee at March 28, 2012 8:57 AM
Does he say why he's disappointed? Where he disagrees with your advice? Sounds like he just wants to attack you.
AntoniaB at March 28, 2012 9:04 AM
Grateful wasn't the best word, I agree. But the guy sounds like one of those that believes he can just BUY a contented home life when that's not the way it works...unless you are indeed married to someone who only cares about the money.
As Amy says, women want to feel connected and intimate. I don't care how nice the meal is or whether you're under the sink fixing the disposal if the overall quality of our discourse is cold and unaffectionate.
Just the way he responded to Amy shows that he's kind of an ass. He's a rich guy who thinks his money should be enough for her and he shouldn't have to work at maintaining an emotional connection too.
But we all have to do that. No matter how much money we have, we still have to work to maintain our relationships with our spouses, children, family and friends.
LS at March 28, 2012 9:33 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/03/have-a-peasant.html#comment-3105724">comment from AntoniaBHe attacked me first, lecturing me that men are forced to pay for children resulting from pregnancies -- not having read very closely (I'm talking about our evolved adaptations, not our court system).
And basically, I think he wanted me to tell him his wife's a horrible person, because, I suspect, he wants to win more than he wants to be happy or anything else.
Amy Alkon
at March 28, 2012 9:33 AM
Many, many years ago John Gray wrote his famous "Men Are From Mars. Women Are From Venus" to help men and women communicate with each other. He explained well that when a woman says "You aren't listening", she really means that literally. She just wants her man to listen and empathize, not try to fix the problem as is his instinct.
He also explained that women have their own communication problem. As much as women want to be listened by their man, men want to be appreciated by their woman. Romantic gestures from the man to the woman is good, but men want to be appreciated for the non-romantic stuff too - going to work, taking out the garbage, getting the milk, and other menial tasks. This is what the LW wants. Men want to be heroes to their woman. Appreciation is the key.
hadsil at March 28, 2012 9:39 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/03/have-a-peasant.html#comment-3105736">comment from LSLS is absolutely right.
And FYI, I wrote to the guy and sent him this link and a note suggesting he take a look -- that my commenters are pretty wise. (He reads my column in a daily in the East.)
Amy Alkon
at March 28, 2012 9:40 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/03/have-a-peasant.html#comment-3105827">comment from Amy AlkonHere's our exchange -- nasty man! My email to him:
His response:
My response:
Amy Alkon
at March 28, 2012 10:30 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/03/have-a-peasant.html#comment-3105854">comment from Amy AlkonThat worked well! Guy wrote back:
In a message dated 3/28/12 10:38:50 AM, Name Deleted @aol.com writes:
My final reply:
Amy Alkon
at March 28, 2012 10:58 AM
What couples have to learn to have a happy union is that you have to give your SO what they want, not what you want. This applies to objects as well as emotions. If you understand this is a requirement, then everything should be peachy, unless the SO wants something you cannot give.
The LW is not listening to his wife, and doesn't think he needs to. I can't see this turning out well.
jparkerboy at March 28, 2012 11:05 AM
Romantic gestures and "providing" are two different things. It doesn't sound like she's complaining about the latter. She just wants more of the former, which is cheap and easy. He's begrudging her that. Why?
It's like saying, "I give you all the food you can eat. Why do you want something to drink too?"
Insufficient Poison at March 28, 2012 11:08 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/03/have-a-peasant.html#comment-3105898">comment from jparkerboyWhat couples have to learn to have a happy union is that you have to give your SO what they want, not what you want. This applies to objects as well as emotions.
Right.
Listening is really important -- really listening, not just giving airspace so they can talk.
Gregg has learned to deal with my ADHD -- to become patient with the fact that I'm sometimes forgetful or lose track of time or treat time like it's made of Lycra (in a way a "normal" person wouldn't). I let him know that I don't forget things, get disorganized, etc., out of any ill will or lack of concern for him -- it's just the downside of the upsides of my brain.
Don Symons wrote of our tendency "to see other minds as our own," is how I think he put it. It's really important to put yourself in another person's shoes -- especially if you're married to them (even if the shoes are really expensive stilettos).
Amy Alkon
at March 28, 2012 11:19 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/03/have-a-peasant.html#comment-3105904">comment from Amy AlkonThe guy wrote back again! (All in bold -- although I'll just paste it in as plain text here.)
Amy Alkon
at March 28, 2012 11:21 AM
I'm having a hard time believing that LW is actually an "adult" male - he says he's been married for 19 years and has raised 3 kids, but the way he's talking to Amy in his bitchy rants makes him sound like a 16-year-old boy with PMS. I guess I really lucked out with the male role models in my life, b/c no adult man would ever speak/write to anyone like that. Maybe he's a teenager posing as an adult who just wants to be a dickbag to someone.
Rachel Flax at March 28, 2012 11:21 AM
Wow, Amy. There's nothing you could've advised this guy. You're right, he simply wanted you to tell him that everything was his wife's fault, not suggest anything HE might do to better his marriage.
My guess is that he's actually looking for a way out of the marriage. He's "in the 1 percent", so his main resentment is probably that he's with a wife who isn't so young anymore, and she expects him to actually show her affection and make the effort to maintain an emotional connection, which he's too lazy to do.
Guys like this reach middle-age disenchantment and realize their money makes it much easier to buy some golddigging bimbo, who will kiss their ass every moment for the shopping privileges (at least at first).
I suspect he was hoping you'd give him permission to bail.
LS at March 28, 2012 11:22 AM
Amy,
You called this one right off the bat. His resentment is a pet that he strokes and holds close. If this is how he talks to a stranger who HE contacted for help, can you imagine what it is like to be his wife? At first I was feeling for him, but after this display, no way. I think this is a good window into this guy's inner workings and its not pretty. The good news is he won't have to worry about the wife for much longer. I am guessing she will kick him to the curb pretty soon. Hope she gets a lot of new shoes first!
Bottom line people, when you are in a loving relationship ask not, "What have you done for me lately" but, "What can I do for you?" If we put each other first, nobody should feel neglected.
sheepmommy at March 28, 2012 11:25 AM
LS says-
"Guys like this reach middle-age disenchantment and realize that their money makes it much easier to buy some golddigging bimbo, who will kiss their ass every moment for the shopping privileges (at least at first)."
So true!! Maybe he should have written to that other guy who was praising the virtues of mail order brides the other day. Flights to South East Asia are leaving daily!! Grateful 24 year olds on every corner and they love old bitter white guys!!
sheepmommy at March 28, 2012 11:32 AM
Hmmm. Based on the email exchange between Ms. Alkon and the letterwriter, I think we can put this one down to the initial letter not providing all the relevant facts, or at least not providing the full story.
Yeesh. How would you like to be getting those kinds of emails for giving advice?
Spartee at March 28, 2012 11:38 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/03/have-a-peasant.html#comment-3105932">comment from sheepmommyIt actually isn't all that hard to have a loving marriage -- but you have to put the marriage before your ego, as well as putting it before our petty human need to be right. We all have it, but it's important (and adult) to realize that there are more important things, that defending your rightness to the last often is a battle that you don't win (even if you are right).
Accordingly, I didn't respond to this guy's last email.
FYI, I protect people's privacy (unless they're shouting on a cell phone in public, violating my constitutional rights at a TSA gropingpoint, etc.), but if he sends the editor-in-chief (of the Morning Call, the paper he reads me in) my email, his question will be exposed as his, as it's linked in the email. Perhaps his bile is getting in the way of his noticing that!
Amy Alkon
at March 28, 2012 11:41 AM
Amy, you must be punished! He had it all planned: a column that targeted his wife as the horrible person she is. He was going to thrust the newspaper version in her face and show her that her sins were being blasted by absolute strangers. But you took that away. How can he show her your column now when you point out that he has at least some responsibility for his unhappiness. So now he has to crusade to get you out of the local paper: (1) to punish you for questioning his divinity, and (2) lest his wife sees it and says, "Heyyyy, this jerk sounds a lot like you, and he just got jumped on."
Robin at March 28, 2012 11:46 AM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/03/have-a-peasant.html#comment-3105963">comment from RobinRobin, now that I see more of what a bully he is, I suspect you're right.
Awful me, giving suggestions on how to have a happy marriage.
Amy Alkon
at March 28, 2012 12:02 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/03/have-a-peasant.html#comment-3105966">comment from Amy AlkonAnd actually, the good thing would be if his wife did see the column and realized what he needs (since he clearly is too big to be able to tell her), and gave it to him. He may not be able to let go of all this pride he clings to, but maybe if she's sweet and appreciative to him about the things he wants to be appreciated for...
As I like to say, we're all large, wounded children. Understand that and you'll understand a lot of what we all need from each other.
Amy Alkon
at March 28, 2012 12:05 PM
Amy, I thought your answer was great, and the ways you pointed out how HE might be able to improve his relationship were spot-on. That he's so angry about it speaks volumes about his character and personality flaws.
I don't get why some people get so pissed off about the ev-psyc explanations for human behavior/emotions. I think it's good to have an idea of what the chemical/biological/evolutionary reasons are for certain behaviors, especially when those behaviors seem irrational. Having that knowledge doesn't excuse bad behavior, it just helps us understand it.
ahw at March 28, 2012 12:36 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/03/have-a-peasant.html#comment-3106112">comment from ahwThanks, ahw. I believe, in my initial response to him I told a story of a man my parents know who didn't speak to his wife for much of 10 years. His wife then died of some gall bladder complications, I believe, and then he went all the time and cried at her grave. It's amazing that adults have to have this happen to them -- or be told stories like this -- to come to their senses. It's even more amazing when they remain petty into their 40s, 50s and beyond.
Again, it's in all of us to be selfish, petty brats. But, many of us figure out that behaving that way and expecting a situation to go anywhere but from ugly to uglier is ridiculous.
Ev psych explanations help us understand why most people behave certain ways, and predict that they will behave certain ways, which tells us how we can or should respond.
Amy Alkon
at March 28, 2012 1:26 PM
Wow...interesting thread here; I can't believe this guy's responses to you, Amy!
Just goes to show - all the money in the world won't stop a person from being a miserable bastard.
Lori M at March 28, 2012 3:08 PM
Nowhere in his letter does he say he has ever told his wife what he needs. He's just keeping a list of all the things that tick him off. This is called stamp-collecting.
I'm usually inclined to be angry with people like this, but for some reason this guy makes me sad. It seems like it would be so easy to make this marriage happy if he would put away the stamp book.
LW: You want your money to be enough, but it isn't. You also need to show your wife you love her. And you need to tell her what you need to feel loved, not in an angry way, but in a way that suggests that she really doesn't know. But from what I can tell from your responses to Amy, you're just going to continue to be bitter about people not appreciating how awesome you are for being rich.
MonicaP at March 28, 2012 5:59 PM
I do think this man is in a fantasy where men will get constantly thanked and stroked for everything they do around the house. I think he probably responds to his wife the way he responded to Amy and she runs away by shopping.
I once had a friend who thought he did everything cooking, kids everything. His wife worked 45 hours a week and did all she could, then she got cancer and died. Right up until she was bed ridden he thought he did everything. Then he realized what she did it took hiring 2 people to do. He was shocked at all she had been doing when he thought he did everything.
I also think he has no idea what the 1% is. Being in the 1% is very uncommon and if they really were I highly doubt they would be without help.
When I look at everything he has written it does not add up. It does not seem genuine. I believe he is in a marriage he resents, has a wife he resents, probably children he resents. 19 years? 1%? I don't buy it.
Worthita at March 28, 2012 9:56 PM
I'm with you, MonicaP. It's a weird thing to read this whole thread.
I want to call this guy a douche bag at the same time that I feel sad for him. I totally understand his resentment that has likely built up from many years of feeling unappreciated for his manly pursuit of dutifully providing for his wife and family.
On the other hand, I can't imagine how it must be to live without any semblance of introspection. His wife may have beat it the fuck out of him. Who knows?
Wouldn't it be great to be able to go to a marriage counselor who, at the end of the session, would declare a winner?
That seems to be what this guy was looking for when he initially wrote to Amy.
LW: Been there, dude. Let it go. Okay ... you're right. Big fucking deal. She's awful and you're perfect. Stop being a douche bag and learn to live with other people. Oh, and think about those other people once in a while. You know, the other people that you chose to live with? Particularly that one, the one that you vowed to love and honor until you're dead.
whistleDick at March 28, 2012 10:17 PM
"I also think he has no idea what the 1% is."
True. However, he may be in the top 1% of egos with a debatable foundation. Many more than 1% of income earners fall into that category.
His ego seems pretty well tied in with his income.
Again, I come away from this whole thread feeling more sad for this guy than anything.
whistleDick at March 28, 2012 10:24 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/03/have-a-peasant.html#comment-3106854">comment from whistleDickI, too, feel sad for the guy -- still. The stubborn resentment he shows is a wall between him and probably a lot of people, including his wife.
Amy Alkon
at March 28, 2012 11:02 PM
I mentioned this column to my husband, and his take on it was that this guy married the wrong woman -- that he really does need to leave her and find the kind of woman who appreciates the fact that he can keep her in all the shoes she wants and doesn't expect anything else. And that's a perfectly acceptable thing to want. We all have our bullshit: Own yours.
LW, you want someone who will stroke whatever you want stroked in exchange for a generous shoe allowance. Admit it and decide what you want to do about it. There are plenty of women who will be as sweet and appreciative as you want while you keep handing them the money.
MonicaP at March 29, 2012 6:38 AM
Okay, so NOW I see-if I were married to this prick I'd shop all I damn well wanted and not clean, too. I felt for him, the first time around. He sounds mental-write for advice JUST to get to call someone names. His marriage isn't going to last, I hope he knows that. And neither will marriage number 2.
There is no way this guy makes millions. No one with THAT much money feels THIS insecure.
momof4 at March 29, 2012 6:43 AM
Wow, I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but I kind of hope she gets a divorce lawyer and takes the house and half of his money. Then she could still buy all the shoes she wants and get herself a nice boyfriend.
The LW would be happy, too, because he'd have an even longer list of grudges to nurse.
If he wanted a wife who was a high-earning breadwinner with no need for emotional attachment, why did he marry her?
Pirate Jo at March 29, 2012 8:24 AM
I still like John Gray's analysis, but I'm convinced the LW is quite less than the innocent party. Wanting appreciation is not the same thing as wanting to be worshipped, which I now think is what the LW really wants.
hadsil at March 29, 2012 9:49 AM
When I first read this column, I felt sorry for the LW and hoped he'd take Amy's advice, which was spot on. After reading his emails to Amy I still feel sorry for him, but not for any reason he'd appreciate.
Providing for your family, doing chores, etc. is wonderful and should be appreciated. But it sounds like he wants those things to substitute for letting his wife know he loves her, and that is never going to work. It's like telling someone "I don't (ever or hardly ever) want to have sex with you, but hey, I made dinner!" They're fed, and that sure beats not being fed, but they still feel unloved.
"What couples have to learn to have a happy union is that you have to give your SO what they want, not what you want. This applies to objects as well as emotions. If you understand this is a requirement, then everything should be peachy, unless the SO wants something you cannot give."
Lots of great comments, including this one.
rm at March 29, 2012 10:45 AM
When I first read the letter, I thought the guy was probably like me - uncomfortable for some reason with making the displays of affection that many other people take for granted, and then even MORE uncomfortable when doing them as a result of being asked (I truly don't know why I am this way, nor what I can do about it, because everything I try seems to make it worse, rather than better).
However, after seeing the LW's response, I went back and re-read it, and can now see the evidence that he was just looking for validation, not advice. He only wanted to hear what a horrible person his wife was, not what he could do to make a difference.
WayneB at March 29, 2012 1:32 PM
I'm pretty sure he at least started reading the blog, and got upset at all the people who have disagreed with him so far.
If this is what he says to Amy over one disagreement, I can only imagine how he actually treats his wife.
I hope she has the courage and opportunity to run.
meg1571 at March 30, 2012 10:01 PM
"I'm very disappointed in your advice and stance. I feel maybe it's you who need the counseling and guidance to make you a stronger more confident person and not dependant on a man to give you little gifts and notes to keep you, shall I say...balanced."
LW, you can't fire me or try to knock out of your paper. Hear this: You're being an idiot.
And so loudly you didn't even notice anything about the lady you asked for advice. I quoted you so it would be clear.
Now: if you didn't even bother to learn anything about Ms. Alkon, what are the odds you know what you need about your wife? Here, your own ego got in the way of understanding.
Here's a simple test, one that I know works because I have failed it: ask yourself what individual thing your wife would want for Christmas. Not a generic category, like "shoes" or something she can go get herself with a credit card, but something specific, something endearing, and something that would remind her every time she looked at it what you thought of her.
Right now I have to suggest, "an anchor". Lemme know what you came up with.
Radwaste at March 31, 2012 3:56 PM
Amy, what I like about you is when someone acts like a jerk, you treat them like jerks. It's so refreshing
Ken_in_SC (@Ken_in_SC) at March 31, 2012 6:06 PM
LW is a f@@@wad. Uh-huh.
Mr Teflon at March 31, 2012 8:47 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2012/03/have-a-peasant.html#comment-3113930">comment from Ken_in_SC (@Ken_in_SC)Amy, what I like about you is when someone acts like a jerk, you treat them like jerks. It's so refreshing
Thank you, Ken!
Amy Alkon
at April 1, 2012 12:11 AM
Momof4 said: There is no way this guy makes millions. No one with THAT much money feels THIS insecure.
I have to disagree with you there, based on most unfortunate personal experience. Perhaps he's exaggerating about being in the 1%, but it's also entirely possible to have a ton of money and be that insecure or worse. The man I'm thinking of has eight digits in the bank and assets galore, yet his psyche belongs in one of Barbara Oakley's books. It's hard to believe a person can have that much and be that miserable, but then you see it. And your heart can only sink.
The word of the day is sad, indeed. For that man, and this guy, and his vicious rejection of intelligent, well-intentioned advice.
YTS at April 1, 2012 4:54 AM
How much did LW pay for this advice?
ju2144 at April 1, 2012 3:58 PM
Crikey! What a disgraceful take this fella took from considered advice. It made me reconsider the notion that some people REALLY DO love their pain. Ain't no cure for deep-seated malevolence Amy.
You did your honest best (as usual) and encouraged him to do likewise within his marriage. That's what he really hates you for.
Olivia at April 4, 2012 6:39 PM
I find it hard to believe that a member of the 1% fixes his own garbage disposal.
JoJo at April 10, 2012 12:38 PM
@Amy The stubborn resentment he shows is a wall between him and probably a lot of people, including his wife.
The stubborn resentment he shows is an evolutionary adaptation. Is it not?
If he provides for his wife and children, it is a lot. Really, a lot. His wife needs appreciate it at least once a year and show it to him.
This would fix the problem.
Mere Mortal at April 10, 2012 1:35 PM
It is interesting to read all this evolutionary biology stuff. (I do believe it explains our behaviour quite completely.) However how long do we have to put up with women running their vaginas with their emotions? Men don't go around raping women regularly (although given the choices that women make, obviously they should). So men have learnt to rise above our instincts but for women it is still a matter of "Oooh, but the AIR in my head!"? No wonder Sheri Tepper wrote "Gate to Womens' Country" ;-)
Peter Garner at April 10, 2012 6:19 PM
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