The Mr. and I have a cleaning service. It's the ultimate aphrodisiac.

Time to be honest with yourselves. You change (willingly), he changes (willingly), you both compromise in a genuine, permanent way, or be honest and break up because otherwise this will annoy the shit out of the both of you and you WILL be miserable.

If you can't work out something like this, how are you going to work out the really important stuff?

It's only a step backward if you're looking at marriage. If you're happy just being together, then living apart is fine.

Really, consider a cleaning service. They don't have to be ridiculously expensive. It's certainly cheaper than moving out and keeping your own places.

Also, if he's that clean, he can take the initiative by dumping the recycling and cleaning the dishes. You can make it up to him by doing things he hates or isn't good at.

Well, moving out IS a step backwards, if they're living together as a step toward possibly getting married. So, the real problem might be that they're not compatible in that way.

If they're thinking about getting married and starting a family, three things have to happen:
1)He has to relax his standards.
2)She has to clean up after herself. I'm messy, too, but you have to realize how rude it is to expect someone else to live in your filth... set aside 20 minutes every day to clean and tidy up.
3)Maid service. Seriously, just do it. Even if it's only once a month.

Of course, if the goal isn't eventually starting a family and being together forever... Yeah, move out and start having fun again.

I try to keep the house ready for company all the time. (Husband has friends over last minute all the time.) That doesn't mean it's immaculate. It just shouldn't be so gross that it's embarrassing. Keep paper towels, windex, and clorox wipes under all the sinks where they're handy. And stop leaving dishes to fester in the sink, because you're going to get roaches- or worse- rodents.

flylady.net is a free website and mailing list that teaches sectional housekeeping and gives you daily assignments. This can make housekeeping less overwhelming, because you never spend an entire day cleaning.

"Clutter's Last Stand" is a life-changing book if you have stuff lying everywhere.

I think many people would be surprised how cheap a maid service is, though. The day they come, your house is as tidy and relaxing as a hotel room.

A maid might be able to clean up once a week, but having been married to a woman who started out as a tidy person and ended being a slob in every respect, once a week doesn't cut it. Slobs are like Pigpen from Peanuts; they leave an astonishing trail of disorganization behind them. Quite often, they are unaware of just how messy they really are.

(Ironically, I was a pack rat as a teen, but quickly discovered that being such got in the way of mobility and learned to throw stuff away.)

Separate houses, unless, of course, the ultimate goal is marriage.

My boyfriend of 11 years would drive me crazy if I lived with him. I'm not Ms. Neat Freak, but when you put the dirty dish on the counter RIGHT OVER THE DISHWASHER, you and I are going to have issues.

When he cleans something it's impeccably clean, but that's so rare that I almost feel the need to call in the three major networks to document it.

Plenty of married people and serious couples live separately because of any number of issues. And most times they´re happier for it if its a decision to preserve their individual styles. Sure, live apart if this is going to drive you apart anyway. Or get a place where you have separate spaces and compromise in the kitchen/living area.

My question to the LW -- If moving out is not an option, are you picking up the slack in other areas of the relationship? Taking on duties that he hates? It might help him feel less bitter about cleaning.

I'm in this situation, but the opposite. I clean as a hobby -- it brings me pride and enjoyment, because I am insane.

My boyfriend is super messy.

I don't expect him to deep clean, scrub, and polish (because that's my issue). Yet I used to get really annoyed at having to either pick up his stuff or constantly ask him to do it (clothes, dirty dishes, clutter that would take 2 seconds to put in a drawer, etc).

Here's how my boyfriend and I solved the problem:

-He takes on a few specific, clearly-defined cleaning chores -- taking out the trash, keeping his desk neat so that it doesn't cause me to have nervous breakdown, and vanquishing all insects.

-He asked me to name the activity I hate the most. I named my commute (I HATE driving a car even short trips, and a long car commute in a city with crap mass transit was torture for me). He doesn't mind sitting in traffic and listening to audio books. So we moved across town, right next to my work. He deals with the 45 min commute, and I use that extra time to clean. We are both happier.

LW here's the deal, when you can't even handle the basics of picking up after yourself you have a problem. Sorry. Dishes need to be done daily. If you cared about your boyfriend you wouldn't "forget". Forgetting to pick up after yourself is something 12 year olds do ( I ought to know bc I have one). He wants to be your friend and lover...not your father. Grow up and stop living like a slob. Nobody says you have to scrub every surface till it shines, but a thoughtful adult and partner takes care of the small messes they make. This cuts both ways. If you can't even keep this small of a promise, I would suggest that you avoid marriage with this person bc you aren't ready for it yet.

Hmm. Another video apropos! I Hate Being A Grownup!

Monica: You can make it up to him by doing things he hates or isn't good at.

Or by doing things he loves!

Cohabitation, like marriage, is what people are "supposed to do" in their relationships...because no one has the brains to ask "Why?"

Once upon a time, when women were second class citizens and their life goals were limited to being someone's wife or the schoolmarm in Walnut Grove.

It now makes no sense. "Because we love each other" is not a reason to cohabitate or get married. Let that sink in.

Second FLYlady - she is really great about keeping a clean enough home, about sabotaging ourselves in this (it has to be perfect) and basically about how to help create peace in the home. Honestly - some people need some help in figuring out a good flow that takes little time to keep things clean and humming over.

Sofar - that's great! My husband and I did something similar. Before we moved in together, I used to say he was on the quarterly plan for changing he bedclothes ... . Needless to say, he wasn't going to be an equal partner in the cleaning. So we worked it out that he contributes in other areas.

I'm a bit of a clean freak and I live with a grub. It isn't always easy however it does help me find more personal balance. Neat freaks tend to be control freaks. I learned to contol my freakiness while still doing a bit of potty training with the grub. We now have a more livable home and enjoyable relationship.

I have to ask if you're happy living in the mess or did you have an expectation that he would clean up in your wake... The answer to that gives more of a clue as to what the underlying problem may really be. Could it be that you saw a potential maid in waiting and he's not prepared to take on that role?

GET A MAID.
I've been married for 38 years. I not not dirty but am extremely messy and have no desire to clean the kitchen if I already cooked the dinner.
So he cleans the kitchen occasionally and we have a maid twice a week. This may..... or may not be in your budget but I wanted to share that this does not have to be a deal breaker.
Some problems can be solved by throwing money at them. This is one.