Hehehehehee! Amy, your euphemisms just keep getting better and better! supermodeliciousness I love it!!

Ahem, okay here's the thing: BF isn't rich, and I'm not supermodelicious, but we each like the way the other looks and we like what each brings to the table in the relationship. That we both like guns and like to shoot them is cool; we both like to shoot pool, too. And he loves my cooking (and I like his) and we have the best. sex. evah. There was a certain chemisty when we first met (30-some years ago) that didn't diminish even though he married someone else, and I did too. When we re-found each other (if that's even a word), it was like high school all over again. So LW needs to be open to how he feels when he meets someone who just happens to make him feel something, whether she's supermodelicious or not. And he needs to think better of himself and take stock of what he does have to offer: is he good with tools? Does he make a helluva peenybutter sammich? He's got to have something going for him! Take stock, LW, of what your good qualities are! If you can't think of any, ask your mom, your sister, your aunt, a good friend, someone who will give you some good, honest feedback. And pass me a sammich, I'm hungry! Oh, wait, there's venison cooking over here (did I mention my BF is a good cook, as well as an awesome bow hunter?) Good luck, dude, I wish the best for ya!

Cheer up, dude. Read Christopher Moore's A Dirty Job. Even if you don't enjoy his subplot about being a Beta Male, you'll probably at least get a snicker out of it.

Male Romantic should read Ladder Theory! It describes, pie-chartwise, what women look for in men. 50% is Money+Power (they tend to go together). 40% is ATTRACTION, which is a complicated mix of flirting, emotions and physical responses. The last 10% is really optional crap-- all the stuff women *say* they want in a man, but really don't. Since most of us cannot be powerful and wealthy, learning to play the attraction factor is a really, really good way to make up for it. You could have a monopoly on the last 10%, all the "honest", "trustworthy" stuff that reads like the Boy Scout Pledge, but without the attraction, you're just another Nice Guy. If a woman meets a man who has NONE of her shopping list qualities, but he still sets her panties on fire, her shopping list goes in the trash.

As always, don't play the meat-market game. If you're just a nice ordinary kind of guy, you need to meet nice ordinary kinds of girls.

As Flynne points out, common interests are an important part of a relationship. One of the best ways of meeting women who share your interests is to get involved in a club or hobby. Choose one that women are also likely to choose: skip the men's football league and try mixed volleyball. Or cooking. Or taking a course as your local community college.

Meet women in these contexts, get to know them as people, let them get to know you as a person. In the absolute worst case, you'll have fun pursuing a hobby you like. In the best case, you'll meet a woman who likes the same hobby, and you too...

I think it was Purplepen, a few columns back, who suggested getting status in an alternative way.

Try community theatre. They always need guys, and women always far outnumber the dudes, so you'll be a hit. Also, they're very touchy-feely. Careful on that, though, and maybe start by observing the touchy-feeliness to figure out the rules before you jump in, lest you be labeled a creep.

Forget classes, the age range is too wide and most people are married.

And the men want hot women/ladies want rich dudes is true to a point, all other factors being equal, but the fact is, 95% of us get married, and 95% of us are NOT hot or rich. So you'll find someone.

There is nothing that can be done to help men who start from this position. Perhaps he could consider changing teams.

Men just need to be hot and rich enough. Most women will be OK with someone reasonably attractive with a stable job. Most men will be OK with someone of average attractiveness who wants to have sex with them. These lures are just ways of getting in the door. Then the inner beauty thing becomes more important.

The saying "there's a lid for every pot" came about for a reason. No matter how ugly or broke you are, there's someone who wants to be with you. You just have to set your sights appropriately.

Power and status are relative. It's unlikely prehistoric people cared about money specifically, since it didn't exist, but money is one way of measuring status today. It's possible to be powerful within a specific subgroup and not in society at large. Look at street thugs. They're powerless for the most part, but within their own groups, they have a lot of power. And they seem to always have women after them, but very specific kinds of women.

Not saying men should be thugs, but you get the idea.

And the men want hot women/ladies want rich dudes is true to a point, all other factors being equal, but the fact is, 95% of us get married, and 95% of us are NOT hot or rich. So you'll find someone.

Amen to that, NicoleK! One thing LW might remember: It's no use worrying about competing with other guys for the ladies' attention. Doing that distracts you from your goal of finding the right lady, and you'll wind up missing stuff as a result.

Further, while the money/status/power thing may be true in general, I don't imagine all women view money, status, or power in the same way, or rank them the same in terms of importance. All of this points to following Miss Alkon's advice of making the most of what you do have, which, in fact, no other guy has, which, I'll bet, some guys envy you for having.

PricklyPear...LOVE! Christopher Moore is an insightful comedic genius! All LW has to do is read, then keep an eye out for the gals wearing the "I (heart) Beta Males!" tshirts!

Bahahhaa!

a_random_guy wrote:

One of the best ways of meeting women who share your interests is to get involved in a club or hobby. Choose one that women are also likely to choose

My social dance classes are ALWAYS short on men. Just sayin'. Get really really good and then hit on women in the beginner's classes.

As a man who doesn't bring money or power to the table...

1. Get in shape and build some muscle

2. Develop your inner power, take the lead, act decisive, make like you are'nt bothered what other people think.

Those things were atractive before there was money or jobs, still are now. And they needn't cost a cent.

Watch how chimps operate in their little tribes. The Alpha males try to monopolize all the females, but the females have sex with whomever they want behind his back. It's a game of deception on both sides.

How does this relate to us? Women may want the Alpha male and all that he offers, but they'll settle for a Beta or 2 on the side.

Alphas rule things, Betas run things. I've read about the sneaky ape females, but I understand it happens with deer, and pretty much every other group where Naughtius Maximus tries to keep all the best females to himself.

And while they're locked in their struggle, the Deltas and Omega Mus are having all the fun.

Re Flynne's comment, the first one: have I not said that Flynne is fine?

Joy is in the ears that hear, doll. Glad to see your success!

LW writes: As a man who doesn't bring money or power to the table, what do I have to give up? Why can't you just fall in love like you got hit by a ton of bricks and have that be enough?

He sounds like the women who write to Amy, and occasionally appear in a column, "Why can't my husband love me, even though I weight three times as much as I did when we got married?"

A while back I read a paper that basically argued that the entire alpha male thing in nature was mostly nonsense and the exception rather than the rule. The only animals that come close to the alpha male model being claimed by some humans are wolves and even then it's wildly misstated.

As Pricklypear pointed out, the most fascinating part was amongst those chimps that have an alpha male, the non-alpha males have more sex AND the females manipulate the top males to the point where it appears that the females choose the alpha male and he essentially becomes the sucker male.

In human terms, it's like the "poor, defenseless" woman having her hero do the heavy lifting. He gets hooked and it never ends. (Which reminds me of Into the Woods.)

A while back I read a paper that basically argued that the entire alpha male thing in nature was mostly nonsense and the exception rather than the rule. The only animals that come close to the alpha male model being claimed by some humans are wolves and even then it's wildly misstated.

It would be interesting to know just how prevalent that is. It may very well be more of an exception than the rule, but I don't know about wolves being the only animals with alpha males. My understanding is that elephant seals are this way too -- one male has a large harem and violently defends them -- and PBS's Nature had a program on last week about koalas (they're not koala bears...no relation to bears.) It said they also have one male that controls a group of females and repels all other males (they're not so cute and cuddly when they're fighting) as long as he is physically able.

Those are just two other examples. I suspect there are many more.

Male Romantic should read Ladder Theory! It describes, pie-chartwise, what women look for in men. 50% is Money+Power (they tend to go together). 40% is ATTRACTION, which is a complicated mix of flirting, emotions and physical responses. The last 10% is really optional crap-- all the stuff women *say* they want in a man, but really don't.

Hmmm. I found my husband attractive right off -- first thought was "He's the cutest guy here." Sexual chemistry worked from the get-go.

The 50% thing? He was 24 years old, a code-monkey programmer at a big corporation -- he was driving a Mazda GLC with 137K miles on it, sharing a house in the 'burbs with two other guys. Most of our dates consisted of supper in front of a video movie, followed by hot sex.

That 10% I supposedly didn't really want? It was there in spades. I knew on the first date that I could tell him anything, and that I couldn't imagine him doing anything mean, or shabby, or ugly, or dishonest. Within a month or two, I figured out that this quiet, boyish-looking guy was scary-smart. And honestly, *this* is the stuff that dazzled me.

22 years later, he's still not rich or powerful, though he holds a job and participates in local politics. It's still the "nothing mean or shabby or ugly or dishonest," "can tell him anything," and "scary-smart" part that dazzle me about my Eagle Scout from Kansas.

Lest you think I didn't have any options: I graduated massage school in my 20s, and during my late twenties, when I was pretty darned cute, I was working as a massage therapist with a clientele largely of lawyers, brokers, and CEOs. I'm pretty sure I could have snagged a rich guy if I'd put my mind to it. Never really seemed worth it.

Every animal group I can think of offhand who is supposed to be monogamously controlled by an alpha male has been recently genetically (and film) proven to be highly promiscuous. There may be some male wolves who keep their women strictly in line, but they're certainly the exception, not the rule. That goes for lions, songbirds (thought to mate for life) elephant seals, hyenas...you name it. Makes a girl think of the old adage "tell him what he wants to hear, then do what you want".

The alpha doesn't even always do anything about this, even when it's filmed right in front of him. The things we don't know yet are legion about the animal world, more so about ourselves I suspect.

By recently I mean the last few decades. Debunking this doesn't make for exceptionally good "animal planet" but the info is out there.

Dana, do you think you're normal?