Can you say "Unrealistic expectations"?
They seem to be the final nail for most marriages.

I want to make him realize how cruel he was

Get wasted and tear him to shreds, LW. That'll teach him.

Don't worry, you'll go free ... if you're hot enough.

He wants me to do it alone and wants to see improvement before he commits.

What a smart guy!

I need structure and commitment from a loving partner for strength, and an engagement now would help me transcend my conditions.

Horseshit. You need a good healthy dose of reality, and about 2 years of intensive counseling on why you think someone else other than YOU can make yourself better.

Please, LW. Get a grip, and get thee to a therapist. Pronto.

Sheesh.

I wish I were a fly on the wall of every man reading this column. What is the sound of 10,000 balls shrinking?

"I need structure and commitment from a loving partner for strength"

No, you need to re-direct the initiative you use to scour profiles and prepare for dates towards yourself. You can become a person who you believe doesn't need another person's constant approval of your existence for strength.

"I need structure and commitment from a loving partner for strength"

LW, this is complete and utter BS. No one can fix you, but you. You've already won half the battle, you've admitted you have these problems. Now you have to take it the rest of the way. Look yourself in the mirror, and tell yourself that you are going to be a better person. You are not going to allow yourself to be lazy, or thoughtless, or overwhelmed. You are going to learn how to overcome the issues that make you what you are now, and make yourself better. You will not take "No" for an answer, especially from yourself.

Until you do this, you are not fit company for man nor beast. Maybe a goldfish, but really, you *must* be able to take control of your own life, and make yourself into the person that can be an equal partner and loving best friend and team-mate to your husband, before you even *think* about getting married.

This man is not being cruel, he's being honest. And he hasn't cut you off totally, which says that he is actually willing to stick around if you make a sincere effort to fix yourself. That bodes well for him being a good man. Ask yourself, is he worth putting forth the effort? If you have to think about it, you are not ready yet, and should let him go. But if you can say "Yes, I believe I can do this, he's worth it to me." then you are ready to face your demons and make yourself into the partner this man deserves.

transcend my conditions

*Vomit*

He wants me to do it alone

"We're not getting engaged yet" is alone now? Sounds like he cares enough to wait until you're ready for marriage.

I just turned 26, and I'm ready to be married.
I'm a big girl now and I want this

My previous two boyfriends dragged their feet and then said the blood-boiling line: "I will marry you...someday."
Why is every guy I screech at afraid of comitment?

I met a guy online, and we initiated a relationship on the basis that he was ready for marriage.
I found a sucker who doesnt know me

Four months after our first kiss, I broke up with him after he, too, expressed hesitation about marriage.
We've know each other for 130 days now, if you count that week we spent emailing before meeting face to face. Seriously, why arent I married yet? How could leaving him not make him want me more?

He insisted that he loves me but is hesitating because I have a drinking problem and PMDD (premenstrual dysphoric disorder). Once a month, I take everything that I love and tear it to shreds -- as if in a werewolf state.
Why cant he get past the fact that I lied to him about the entierty of my personality, my drug problem, and that one time I set his car on fire?

I come to, devastated by my actions.
I said I was sorry about the car

I need structure and commitment from a loving partner for strength,
I have grown used to haveing others take care of me.

and an engagement now would help me transcend my conditions.
According to my fairy godmother a diamond chip set in a band of gold will cure my lycanthropy, but only if given to me by a man true of heart, noble of spirit, and packing in the crotch. Technically we dont even have to get married, just engaged

He wants me to do it alone and wants to see improvement before he commits.
He acctually expects me to do something for myself, he thinks it will build 'charechter' what ever that is

I want to make him realize how cruel he was in insisting in his profile that he was ready for marriage and not following through.
How can I make him see that everything wrong with me is essentialy his fault and manipulate him into being little more than a puppet?

>Once a month, I take everything that I love and tear it to shreds -- as if in a werewolf state. I come to, devastated by my actions.

I guess it better be a quickie wedding then, because replacing the shredded invitations and all every month would get pretty spendy.

Plus, we'll need a new definition for Bridezilla.

Marriage can solve a lot of problems (paying two rents, knowing where the relationship is going, provide a family structure). But it can't solve yours.

This can't possibly be real, can it? Are there really women out there that are this batshit crazy? No wonder men are afraid of marriage!

Aaaaaaaahahahahahah hahaha AHAHHHahahahaha.

Oh God.

I don't know if this makes me want to weep, laugh, or smack her. Or all three. I know self-delusion and massive powers of justification are hallmarks for addicts, but this is taking it to a whole 'nother level.

Sounds like those other men got off easy.

The line about how devastated she is rubs me the wrong way. Sounds like my sister, who has BPD. She is always very sorry after the eruption, and she thinks everyone should constantly forgive and forget just because she is so sorry.

LW, no one takes your "devastation" seriously if you are unwilling to be a big girl and address your own problems. Your actions hurt them, even if you are sorry later, and you can't take them back. People remember everything you do and say.

You've gotten some good advice here. If you want to be married, you need to make yourself the sort of woman a man wants to marry, not hope he wil make you the sort of woman he wants to be married to.

>Once a month, I take everything that I love and tear it to shreds -- as if in a werewolf state.

Bathsalts are a helluva drug!

I hope she doesn't have any pets.

Sorry, but I call troll. This letter doesn't just present an example of the types of behavior that invoke Amy-wrath, it gleefully pokes said wrath with a stick... and a straight face.

"See here where I need a man for completion? See here where I expect a man to solve my problems? See here where I'm being obviously abusive and blaming my partner? Oh, and lookit right there where I find some way to label myself victimized by my abuse victim? Ok, Amy, tell me I've been very, very bad!! " *joyfully braces for spanking*

Yes, the LW has a problem. Namely needing attention so badly that crafting a punishable offense seemed reasonable.

Why would anyone think that being "ready for marriage" in a profile means that by dating that person would be required to "follow through?"

"He insisted that he loves me but is hesitating because I have a drinking problem and PMDD (premenstrual dysphoric disorder)."

LW, you do understand that these are very, very good reasons for hesitating, don't you? Either one of them would be enough to scare off some guys, let alone combining the two. And while he loves you, he can't love your drinking problem or your PMDD away, no matter how much he might want to. He's not being cruel; he's being realistic. The only one who can help you is you.

"Plus, we'll need a new definition for Bridezilla."

Brilliant!

LW, what do you think "ready for marriage" means? "I want a big party, with a big white dress, unless I freak out first and destroy the dress, the pretty decorations, and maybe the groom"?

No sane man - no sane human being, period, will put up with being taken advantage of. No one can fix your problems for you. You have two serious problems. Give your current boyfriend credit for at least not running for his life. (Yet.) BTW, putting "ready for marriage" in his profile was not a proposal of marriage.

Fix your own problems, then look for someone to love. You'll know you're in love when you want to give as least as much as you receive.

>I hope she doesn't have any pets.

Not anymore...

I didn't even know about PMDD, so I looked it up and found a symptoms quiz about it. Gee, turns out I had it for most of my life, but in my ignorance I hardly ever destroyed anything! All those years of potentially life-threatening tantrums wasted.

Damn.

I have nothing to add except: lujlp's translation for the win!

Wow. I can't even...

I too wonder if this letter can possibly be real...knowing how Amy has quite a bit of communication with the LWs I imagine it is...but, why does it seem like every once in awhile someone writes to Amy who doesn't appear to have read any of her previous columns?

Regardless, Amy: job well done giving this one the swift smack she needs...hopefully her reading comprehension skills are as finely tuned as her ability to self-delude.

Oh, and LW: read the comments, too!

P.S. I just looked up PMDD (because I've never heard of such craziness) and it stated that alcohol abuse can play a role in the severity of the disorder. So yeah, LW, get your shit together. You are not marriage material as of right now.

Amy, while the advice was sound, I have a feeling it was wasted on her. It made for a good column, but as for the LW, I doubt you made even a dent in her self-awareness, or lack thereof.

She tells you she goes raving mad once a month and drinks like the entire seventh fleet, yet it's because her boyfriend is a liar when he said he was ready for marriage, then bolted like a bat out of hell.

It's just never dawned on her that perhaps he is ready for marriage -- just not to Lizzie Borden.

I hope your correspondence was more in depth than this. Not because your advice wasn't good, but because she seems so dense to me.

I give her credit for being open about her issues. But it's just never dawned on her issues are the reason these guys pick up and leave.

Let's see... I think LW should write a personals ad and say: "26 year-old, ready to be married, once-a-month binge drinker and heavy partier/shredder/werewolf, seeks fool to put up with my deranged bullshit. Irish and hippies need not apply."

Anyone who is stupid enough to answer is yours forever, honey.

Do you suppose he might also be afraid that you will want to have children right away, and he's afraid you can't stay sober for 9 months? And he's afraid to add pregnancy horemones to the mix? And he's afraid of the damage you will inflict on a helpless child?

"This can't possibly be real, can it? Are there really women out there that are this batshit crazy? No wonder men are afraid of marriage!"
Renee

Unfortunately, many men can attest that yes there are women this batshit crazy.

I'd swear this was written by a girl I know, except she's living with a guy right now. Her PMDD was, in my non-medically-trained opinion, a case of using a medical diagnosis to excuse atrocious behavior. It was amazing, she worked in customer service, and was perfectly polite to her customers and boss, but would come home and rip the heads off (figuratively) everyone in the house.

She was just like this girl, though, with the destruction of property, the binge-drinking, the abusiveness followed by apologies, and of course, the "don't blame me because I have a medical condition!" crap. If you dared suggest that she was stil responsible for the things she said, or did, while in the throes of her hormone-enhanced temper tantrums, she would fake-cry and demand that you apologize to her! For being mean! Because it wasn't her fault!

The last time I talked to her, she was talking about how worthless and stupid her boyfriend was, while he was in the room (I heard him make a comment or two) and then complain about how he hadn't asked her to marry him yet. I swear the only reason he hasn't dumped her is that he's too nice to kick her out when she has nowhere to go and no money!

"I just ..., and I'M ready .... MY previous .... I met .... Four months after our first kiss, I broke up .... I have a drinking problem and PMDD (premenstrual dysphoric disorder). Once a month, I take everything that I love .... I come to, devastated by MY actions. I need ..., and an engagement ...help ME transcend MY conditions. .... I want to make him...."

Anyone else spotting the problem here? All her language is identifying herself as central (hence all the "I", "me", and "my" use), while the men are simply things upon which she acts and from which she obtains benefits. The only thing she relates in her story is the mens' *actions*. She never uses any "theory of the mind" to understand a man's motivations or thinking.

In short, she apparently does not consider a male point of view. She only describes how male actions affect her. To me, this indicates she lacks the capacity to see the men as fully human, with an inner life as complex and complete as her own. They are a means to her ends, nothing more.

"It was amazing, she worked in customer service, and was perfectly polite to her customers and boss, but would come home and rip the heads off (figuratively) everyone in the house."

Yeah, you run into these people who claim they are not to blame for their uncontrollable temper.

One of my personal tests for when someone really has an uncontrollable temper is finding out when the temper erupts. The alleged "sufferer" usually regularly erupts when confronting socially inferior or physically weaker people they already know. But, tellingly, that same Incredible Hulk temper they claim to have never seems to appear to confront 225 pound police officers, Hells Angels members, imposing strangers on dark streets, or bosses.

That is how you know you are dealing with a bully, not a person who cannot control their temper: when the alleged sufferer actually faces a real risk of consequences=no temper.

What Spartee said.

"I want to make him realize how cruel he was in insisting in his profile that he was ready for marriage and not following through."

This letter has to be a joke. Her letter indicates she is a raging narcissist. Someone who is self aware enough to realize she is an alcoholic and a nightmare to be around a few days a month would not wonder why someone is hesitant to marry her. Narcissists are not usually this self aware.

This letter sounds like it was written by a poor schmuck that is dating someone like her.

I am laughing my ass off at lujlp's translation.

"Oh goody, it's Wednesday. Let's see if Amy published MY letter today, so I can see how many HUNDREDS of people agree with me that it's all HIS fault!

Computer on, browser open, www.advicegoddess..."

(3 minutes later, and 2 flights up)

"Helen, did you hear that? Are we having an earthquake?"

I was just going to leave it with the fairy godmother crack, but was feeling particularly cranky and decided to lampoon the whole damn thing.

But seriouly how does this woman expect a cuple ounces of gold, a caret or two of lava fused carbon, and a full time roomate to magically cure a serious set of matching biological and psychological disrders?

Yeah, my initial response was "troll alert". NO ONE could be that gob smackingly clueless and entitled. But OK, Amy has confirmed that the LW is the real deal. I'd be interested in Unwed's ultimate response to advice + comments. Does she actually taken any of it to heart? Read Unhooked? Try Dr. Dean's suggestions ? Go to an AA meeting? I suspect she's going to have to get bitch slapped by life to wake up.

Yeah, my initial response was "troll alert". Who is that gob smackingly clueless and entitled? But OK, Amy has confirmed that the LW is the real deal. I'd be interested in Unwed's ultimate response to advice + comments. Does she actually taken any of it to heart? Read Unhooked? Try Dr. Dean's suggestions ? Go to an AA meeting? I suspect she's going to have to get bitch slapped by life to wake up.

I've just read a very similar letter on another site, with some of the circumstances changed slightly, and more background on why the LW is possibly this way. If it's the same person, I have a little more sympathy—if not, well bitch is cray-cray.

David, I just read the same letter and your comment on Dear Margo (yeah, advice columns are my guilty pleasure...it's like the text version of Hoarders or Intervention), and I don't think it's the same person. I can't imagine Amy leaving such crucial background details out, and it's my understanding that she carries on additional conversation with the letter writer before posting a response.

@Renee are there really women out there that are this batshit crazy?

This is not crazyness. It is a passive/aggressive sense of entitlement. Every guy is obligated to tolerate her emotional outbursts.
No therapist could help with this.

Actually, I think luj's last sentence in his translation sums up her need to be with someone else. Not necessarily that she blames him now for her problems, but a committment from him will give her someone to blame her actions. "If you were just more loving and supportive, I would have disemboweled your parents."

She's a borderline, and she's using PMDD and alcohols as her excuses.

Men are catching on and getting good at spotting borderlines. And we're leaving them alone.

I don't usually say things like this, but I must admit the LW comes across as a little scary to me, and I don't mean the alleged PMS, but rather the incredibly strong (and almost a little 'psycho' seeming) sense of self-centered entitlement .. not marrying her is 'cruel' and 'wrong'? Yikes. Probably what's happening is a few months into the relationship these men are realizing it isn't going to work, and are also feeling put off by the constant pressure and passive-aggressive accusations that they aren't living up to her demands, and that it's 'their fault' for 'not providing structure'.

Maybe she has this PMS issue, maybe it's just another manifestation of her sense of self-centered entitlement, maybe a combination of both ... regardless, doesn't matter which, either way, right-headed men are going to avoid her until she stops it.

"I want to make him realize how cruel he was in insisting in his profile that he was ready for marriage and not following through."

Oh, I suspect he was 'ready for marriage' - just not with you, once he realized how demanding you are, and learned of your demands that he commits to a lifetime of "helping you" ('or else' he's supposedly real cruel person). Only a really desperate man is going to very quickly into the relationship make a strong commitment to an engagement, and making excuses that a man who doesn't is committing some kind of moral atrocity is a bit lame.

Brian and Mere Mortal summarize it well.

Also, what 'rm' said (i.e. 'what Spartee said'). It's all 'I, me, me, I, my, me, I, myself, my, I, me, my, myself, me me me'. I often wonder if this sort of thing is a consequence of the modern culture of over-indulgent parenting, or if it's intrinsic. LW should ask herself 'what would I be bringing to a marriage, for him'.

The LW is deluded, for sure.

But hardly alone.

Many, many, many people have this idea that magically, if they find The One, that everything turns from the dreary-dark-Bladerunner set in their life to shiny, happy Disney pastels.

More usually women than men, but there are a lot of men with that delusion.

"I can only be happy if _______".

But it never happens. Until they learn to be happy without the magic talisman. (And then, usually, they find what they're looking for.)

She's self-defeating. "As long as I'm not engaged, I _have a reason_ and _an excuse_ to behave this way!"

When she gets the fiancee, barring some radical self-change?

She'll find a new reason why she's allowed to behave like that. And it still won't be her "fault."

I want to make him realize how cruel he was in insisting in his profile that he was ready for marriage and not following through.

So whoever showed up first, that was the proposal he had to accept?

So, LW, are you willing to accept anybody, or are you being cruel? (That'll require more self-analysis than she's shown so far.)

"I just looked up the Margo thing..."

I become more impressed with you by the column, Amy.

"In short, she apparently does not consider a male point of view. She only describes how male actions affect her. To me, this indicates she lacks the capacity to see the men as fully human, with an inner life as complex and complete as her own. They are a means to her ends, nothing more."

All quite true, no doubt... but I'm guessing she doesn't treat her girlfriends any better.

It sounds like this person has Anti Social Personality Disorder, or they're a Narcissist, or Sociopath. Whatever label you want to use, something isn't working properly in their brain, so they won't take advice and they won't change their ways.

My mom had the same problem in her brain, so I grew up with this kind of perception of life coming from her.

The only thing that works with people like this is lying to them, boldly and to their face, because they don't expect it from their victims.

Also, if guys know girls like this are crazy, what's the attaction? I bet all her boyfriends, past and present are trying to 'rescue' her.

"I guess nepotism is still quite helpful in keeping a column in the paper."
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assert that Margo AND Abby give some of the most unrealistic, and even worst, advice I've read.

This lady is often more likely than not to get knocked up soon after marriage as a way to fight the problems that will soon surface. Like a child will be the antidote to cure all ills. One child doesn't work? How about another?

Amy, do you provide the columns to the letter writer when they're posted, and do they ever respond? I would be interested to see if she came to some realistic conclusion about her plight.

I read this column to my husband. He shuddered and said "Don't stick your dick in crazy." He's been in the position she wanted to put this guy in - being the only grown up in the relationship, completely responsible for curing her emotional, physical, financial,and mental ill-health.

On the plus side it made me seem downright normal. :)
-----------
"I'm going to go out on a limb here and assert that Margo AND Abby give some of the most unrealistic, and even worst, advice I've read."

I find Amy and Dan Savage to be the only two advice columnists with consistently good, realistic advice.

Crazy people make the world interesting. The ancient Chinese curse... "May you live in interesting times."

""This letter sounds like it was written by a poor schmuck that is dating someone like her.""

"It wasn't. She made lots of arguments why she was in the right.

I'm pretty good at seeing through bullshit mail people send me -- and it's usually sent with an ulterior motive, like having some person who's offended another person in some way be embarrassed by the letter in the paper. Or having me show them how wrong they are -- which can backfire when I think the writer is the wrong one."

Dan Savage? This Dan Savage? http://soundpolitics.com/archives/015363.html
The one that bullies high school kids, and devolves into profanity laden rants in the name of "tolerance and diversity and ANTI-BULLYING"?
Yeah, he's a tool. And not even close to Amy's league. She's got more class in her pinky finger than that creep has in his whole body, and more brains than he could ever even hope to have.
Amy = real deal advice columnist.
Dan = potty mouth psycho attention whore.
or liberal. that works, too.
Maybe the original LW should have written to Dan, she's probably get an answer closer to what she wanted. Instead, she has Amy telling her to put on her big-girl pants and fix her own problems before she tries making a go of marriage.
Bummer, personal responsibility is such a pita.

A guy would have to be crazy to marry her. She brings nothing positive to the table, just negatives. She's an alcoholic, entitled nutjob.

Nobody should marry her unless he cleans up her act and can be a solid partner instead of a whacko burden.

She. Unless SHE cleans up her act. Ugh. I typo'd Oops.

"Dan = potty mouth psycho attention whore.
or liberal. that works, too."

Liberals and liberal thinking are the very foundation of America, not to mention the reason for the creation of this country. The concept of the Constitution and all of the Amendments that guarantee such things as freedom of speech are liberal ideas.

Try thinking sometime—it hurts at first, but then you get used to it and it's actually kind of fun.

Asshat.

Aw, gee, David, I'm wounded to the core.
No, not really, I'm actually laughing myself fuzzy at the concept that anyony could confuse what passes for a "liberal" today with our Founding Fathers Classical Liberal way of thinking.
There is a huge difference, you would surely understand that if you took a few moments to think, instead of knee-jerk reacting and snaping at me.
Stay classy, Davy!

OK I am surprised at the drinking problem and the PMS from hell, that does affect things. What I found is the lack of love. I mean to me marriage means finding somebody you LOVE, making a commitment, then working with that person the rest of your life (if possible).

I can understand wanting to find somebody who wants to get married, but this woman seems to be looking for people who are committed almost 75 percent to "I do" before the first date! Life is not like that. Relationships have to be tested. Common grounds and areas has to be found. Problems over come. Sometimes people are just not right for each other. A marriage is more then just being ready to be joined in a legal and spiritual sense. Life is more then a set state of yes/ no, on/off, or 0/1. LW the statement should have been, "I think me and my BF are ready to be married." Less I more we.

Dear Amy,
I am ready to be rich.
I am ready to get a perfect job.
I am ready to have women make sweet love to me.
I am ready to be worshiped.

Kat,

Generalize much? By the way—your fees for the Ann Coulter Fan Club are due. Enjoy your chips and salsa while you bitch about immigrants.

"Liberals and liberal thinking are the very foundation of America, not to mention the reason for the creation of this country. The concept of the Constitution and all of the Amendments that guarantee such things as freedom of speech are liberal ideas."

0_o

I guess I missed a lot of relevant classes and books in all those years of me paying close attention to the history of political theory and practice.

Amy, I'm curious. Did you make any headway with this troubled woman? Any progress in convincing her that the problem isn't him, but her?