As despicable this woman is, if she is seriously considering that solution, it may turn out that is the best for the daughter at the end. Because seriously who want to be taken care of by someone that has her priorities so well set?

Hey, honey, don't forget that then you'll have to pay the alimony to your ex-husband and give back the house, and the car. And probably you should also pay your husband??

> It's hard to be spending weekdays with my
> daughter and weekends with him, like I'm living
> in two camps.

Why does that sounds so familiar? Oh wait - that's what you did to your daughter!

Where to begin... This self-centered witch should be ashamed of herself, but by the tone of her letter I doubt she's capable of feeling shame. She's talking about her *daughter*, her flesh and blood, as if she can be tossed aside because she's "cramping Mom's style".

I was a single mom for many years. Everyone I dated knew from the start that I was a package deal, love me, love my kids, or get kicked to the curb. I had a few boyfriends that thought once they got to a certain comfort level they could try to drive a wedge between me and my girls. They were mistaken. This is what I told them, and I meant every word:
"These are my daughters, whom I love more than my own life. I would kill for them, and I would die for them. If you hurt them, you hurt me. If you hurt me, I will carve my initials into your liver with a rusty spork."

I wonder why this mom got custody of the girl. Was it for the child support? Sounds like it to me, if she's talking about keeping her until she's 18 and the checks stop rolling in. I hope the daughter calls her dad and asks him to come get her now. She's plenty old enough to tell the judge where she wants to live.

You think?

I hope your daughter doesn't read this column.

This could be my sister or one of several women I've encountered, except the demographic of the kid is wrong.

"I wonder why this mom got custody of the girl."

Just speculation, but from what I've seen, an unscrupulous woman will do just about anything to drag the father through the mud and secure custody (i.e. control) and a paycheck. They practically get away with murder, and people say stupid shit like "oh, she's just being a protective mama". Horseshit. She's just being a controlling bitch and using her kids to lash out at dad. If a father acted the way I've seen some mothers act, their asses would be in jail.

P.S. Please forgive the lack of solid argument. This column just struck a personal nerve with me and I'm reacting from an emotional POV.

She could continue to see the new boyfriend and see if there's any chance that the daughter will warm up to him. Or at least realize that he's here to stay.

Yeah, her rationale for divorce was pretty lame, although if it was mutual, the father isn't apt to be much better than the mother. On the other hand, what's done is done.

She can get on with her life and see this new guy, or continue castigating herself for breaking up her marriage and live like a nun. I'm for continuing the see the new guy, if for no other reason, she needs to pick up from where she is and get on with her life.

Should I ask her if she would consider that?

No. Nyet. Nein. Ghobe'.

Dollars to doughnuts your daughter's "frosty" toward the boyfriend (at least partly) out of sheer self-preservation. If she doesn't warm up to him, it's less likely you'll abandon her for him. And while you can abandon her even while living in the same house, LW, it will be so, so much worse for you to ask her to "consider" moving out when she knows you know she doesn't like your boyfriend. Nothing could sum up where she places in your life better than that.

LW, you don't have camps. You have a citadel, built to protect your daughter, and only the very, very worthy should be allowed in. Tear down the fortress to let the Ottomans invade and god knows what happens to the town.

What...the....FUCK? This is the life you choose when you have kids. Kids come first. I'm a single parent too and I have tossed women out if they were in the way regarding my kids. Once even in the middle of the night, when my youngest had nightmares and needed to sleep in my bed.

Your child is not an obstacle to your lovelife. Your lovelife can be an obstacle for you taking care of your 16 year old.

Damn, woman, think! This kid just lost her family. It might have been mutual between you and your ex-husband, but was it mutual for HER? The life she knows is no longer, her father, that she probably loves and has been there her whole life is now just someone she sees on the weekends and you wonder why she's not all smitten with the man you now love? What did you expect? Seriously, did you spend time thinking what goes on in your childs mind and heart?

Is there a reason the 16 year old is frosty? That is, is the new boyfriend an asshole? It might be that the 16 year old sees what mom doesn't.

I am wondering if the letterwriter has got herself a boyfriend who ups the emotion level from her prior passionless marriage, mainly because he is your classic "bad romance" dude, filled with insincere but addictive love displays. He is exciting and thrilling, but ultimately, not real. Daughter would be rejecting the exciting new boyfriend, because she knows nothing good is coming from this.

In my scenario, to avoid reality, mom is thinking about sending reality to live with father.

Yeah, I'm old, but the dictionary used to have "responsibility" in it.

I don't know, I think it might be worth sitting down and talking to the girl.

Because I get the feeling that she might be better off living with, and under the care, feeding, and attention, of her father based on this letter.

But it's extremely indulgent of parents to break up a family simply because their romance waned and the sex got kinda yawny.

It might be indulgent, but it's also kind of zeitgeisty (Eat Pray Love etc.).

Women are increasingly choosing to have babies outside of a relationship. That way the mother can "have it all" because the kid is never actually losing his father.

Women are increasingly choosing to have babies outside of a relationship. That way the mother can "have it all" because the kid is never actually losing his father.

Bullshit. Every kid that is being raised by a single Mom knows that they also have a Father, somewhere, and they know that the paternal unit for whatever reason chose to leave. Unless they are told that the PU died, they almost all assume that they have been abandoned by the absent parent. If they have any contact at all with the PU, and he has other kids that live with/get more attention/are spoiled rotten little brats, this only intensifies the pain and feelings of abandonment the child of the single mom feels.

No matter how much love and attention the remaining parent lavishes on the child, the lack of the second parental figure will be felt by a child. Raising kids is a team effort, the nuclear family (2 parents + kids) is a model that has stood the test of time.

Amy:

You don't say it like that - but trust me, the kid already has figured it out.

This LW seems to be extremely selfish. She didn't say anything bad about the father, and why she got custody you said nothing about.

But the daughter is old enough now to have an opinion - and usually they'd have expressed one. And yes, she's old enough to have the discussion and make the choice.

But she's spoken of in the inanimate-object tense. That doesn't bode well for the mother/daughter dynamic, regardless of her hots for the new beau.

In the situations I'm familiar with, the kids have wanted to go with the more mature father, and the immature mother insisted otherwise (and the courts agreed, cause, mother).

The question isn't is the mother rejecting the daughter - that's already answered. She has already.

So I think it's worth asking about going with the father - hopefully with more tact - but hell, the kid's 16 and probably not stupid, she already knows the answer.

Kids that age haven't really learned to lie yet to themselves, and they still think adults are grownups.

So ask the daughter what she would like to do, and if it's stay, then ask what the problem is, and deal with that. If it's go, then problem solved for the LW. She can go slut it up with abandon and be certain that her daughter isn't in the way.

They've already done the damage to the kid with the divorce because it was "boring". The kid is learning they're not honest with her, and are big on faking truth until it's not convenient anymore.

More dishonesty isn't the answer.

I have to object to ALL of the responders so far.
This woman is NOT being any of the caustic names you're calling her.
My step-mom and I have beat up this topic, and we both agree, if a parent cannot meet her own needs, she cannot meet her child's needs. Kids know this, too. It's natural for a woman to want a man in her life, likewise a kid needs a real father. The *new* guy is often forced to be a father figure whether he likes it or not, simply by default. It's not pretty.
I have been the *new* man in a few women's lives, and the pattern I've always seen is: adolescent girls are extremely jealous of their moms. They are like that even WITHOUT an interloping man. It's their hormones/insecurity/lack of self esteem and God knows what else. Basically these girls are craving a life of their own, but as long as they're tied to the family home, that's impossible.
A girl of sixteen is plenty old enough to start finding her own way and cut loose from Mom.
I told one friend that her girl just needs to get laid. She told me that occurred to her, too, but it would only cause more problems. The kid was tearing the house apart and bullying her younger brothers. That was before I showed up. After, things got worse. What she mostly lacked was someone to demonstrate boundaries, which her mom wasn't doing.
My recentest sweetheart seemed like she should be my last first kiss, but she pulled the plug after a few months. Her toxic daughter issues were in the forefront. The last I heard, she did move in with her dad, whom she hadn't spoken to in ages. It was her choice.
It would be great to say that a newly-single mom can learn how to balance her priorities but that's well-nigh impossible with a teenage girl who wants ALL of your time.

When I was 12, my mom started dating a guy whom I didn't like and who didn't like me. Like this mom is doing with her daughter, my mom blamed me solely for the frosty atmosphere. She refused to see how much the boyfriend or her own behaviour was contributing to the situation. (I'm not saying I was perfect, but again, I was 12-year-old kid, and they were adults in their mid-30s.) My mom said it was all my fault that things were tense, and when I'd be extra nice to the boyfriend to please my mom, the boyfriend was even more snarky and sarcastic at me. Since being nice to him didn't work, I decided on a policy of speaking to him as little as possible.

The two of them made it clear based on how they'd speak to me that my presence was often an encumbrance. They were planning at one point on moving into his house together, and I was told that I would be lucky if my new room ever had a window as it didn't yet, but they might cut one into the house someday. I didn't have a dad I could run to, or I would have. As it was, I spent as much time as I could with other family when the boyfriend was around. I was relieved when my mom and he broke up before the planned move.

My trust in my mother was completely eroded after her breakup, and that was the beginning to a long end to our relationship. I haven't spoken to her in years.

Divided, even if you haven't told your kid that you want her to move in with her dad, she knows on some level how you see her right now. In my own situation, I knew that many months before I was told my new bedroom was to be a closet. I feel so sorry for your daughter right now, and if you're cruel to her, I hope she decides to move in with her dad on her own. Your daughter deserves much, much better from you than the attitude your letter conveys.

Look, I know you're happy that you have an exciting new guy with whom you have awesome sex, but you're a mom and you are supposed to take care of your child. It is your responsibility, not your child's, to negotiate how you can be a good mom while dating. The being a good mom part comes first.

Ok plenty going after her, and she may deserve it.

But, I want to touch on something else though. Has anyone, asked the daughter why she doesn't like the new guy? I'm sure Mom is not the right person for this conversation, she is too much in the rose colored glasses stage ready to chuck kid for new guy. Not sure Dad is the right person either (awkward), maybe a Grandma or an Aunt who can then talk to the parents.

It could be:
A. The kid sees something about new guys true nature that blinded-by-hormones Mom can't/won't see.
B. Personality clash, neither really at fault, neither bad, just don't like each other.
C. She's jealous that she has to share Mom, she's no longer #1 in Moms book.
D. As with many divorced kids a part of her wants Mom and Dad to get back together again. New guy is a definate sign that won't happen.
E. A million other reasons.

If A. Dump guy immediately. if B listen to Amy + most of the advice here. C or D. long talk with kid may do wonders, possibly moving in with Dad for a while could be a good thing for everyone.

I can add something else to my experience with divorced moms: THREE times now, I've been dumped right before Christmas. I still haven't figured that out.
One was for another man, but the others simply went celibate.
There was a fourth, who kept allowing her prison inmate so-called husband to come back, after various attempts to kill her. Now the kid issues are out of her hands-- the county took them away to foster care. It doesn't mean I'll date her, though.

Ya all better giddy up and vote next election, GOP will make abortions illegal, and you will have many many more stories just like this one.

**After mutually ending a 20-year marriage that was more friendship than passion/romance**

What???

This is what I have after 25 years and I consider it damned near perfect.

She divorced her daughter's father because after 20 years, they were friends. Strike 1.

She doesn't see her daughter on weekends because she'd rather be with her boyfriend. Strike 2.

She doesn't want her daughter around at all. Strike 3.

The mom has destroyed her mom card.

The daughter will be better off living with her father. And it's likely that he will be better off too. I say it's a win-win deal. I would say it's a win-win-win deal, but the mom is irretrievably a loser.

This just breaks my heart. My ex and I divorced when our daughter was 3 (she is now 7) and we do everything in our power to show her that she is loved beyond measure by the both of us even though we are no longer married. I can't even imagine making her feel unwanted. I am going to make sure she knows just how much I love her today!

And LW, please rethink your priorities. Is any man worth destroying your relationship with your daughter??

Joe J, I definitely did consider that the daughter may not like the boyfriend for a very good reason or that she'd hate him without any good reason because she's sixteen and contrary. However, I don't think that factors in majorly into what LW needs to do. Yeah, it would be great if the daughter could open her mom's eyes to a bad guy, but I think she should stop dating him regardless. He could be more sensitive and understanding than Alan Alda in his prime and she still needs to get her shit together with her daughter without ROMANCE!!! distracting her.

I also agree with the posters who say that the daughter may be (can't say for sure as we know nothing about him) better off living with her father. But asking her daughter to think about it or even acquiescing when she asks (because she probably will and it'll probably be a last-ditch effort to get her mom to stop considering her a burden) will do in five minutes what LW's been working up to for a while. There may be no coming back from that without years apart and lots and lots of therapy. Better to try to mend the tears now than to whip out the seam-ripper and try to start over.

"if a parent cannot meet her own needs, she cannot meet her child's needs."

This is true if that need is:
Food, Shelter, Clothing.

Anything not connected with those 3 necessities to survive, I call BULLSHIT.

Emotional indulgence is not a need. I'm not saying it has no importance, we all want to share time, passion, interests, love, whatever, with another person. But don't tell me she can't be a mother if she can't have a boyfriend.

The "mother" in this letter is being every caustic name she's been called, and more besides.

As a father, I cannot EVER in a thousand years thinking of my little girl as some encumberance to my love life. She's part of my legacy, that will survive me after I am gone, how could I resent that? Romances can come and go, but my children outlast my lifetime.

The vile selfish little bitch that wrote that letter doesn't deserve to be a mother. I don't think it matters why she doesn't like the new boyfriend. Maybe they're just different, maybe she doesn't want a different father, maybe a thousand different reasons, some good, some not, who knows and who cares? What does matter here is that the "mother" is eager to place her lovelife before her child.

Anyone willing to do that, does not deserve a love life, as they can't love anything more than themselves.

The kid was tearing the house apart and bullying her younger brothers. That was before I showed up. After, things got worse.

jefe, that's either really honest, or doesn't quite make the point you were trying to make!

It's funny that this LW is getting so much more vitrol than the single/divorced dad from the other letter, who "had his heart broke" by the crazy lady that he moved in with after knowing for six months. No one is calling him a horrible father or saying he doesn't deserve a love life or advising him to hold off on dating until his kids are out of the house, yet the situations are relatively similar. This LW comes off as more selfish, but objectively speaking the dad did worse by his kids: he moved an unstable woman and her unruly children (4 of them!) into their home, whereas this LW is just dating and at least isn't getting engaged and moving her new guy in.

I'm not sure if it's a gender double standard, or just a different angle (romantic advice vs parenting advice), but it's an interesting juxtaposition.

from jefe's post:

"My step-mom and I have beat up this topic, and we both agree, if a parent cannot meet her own NEEDS she cannot meet her child's needs. Kids know this, too. It's natural for a woman to WANT a man in her life"

As Robert mentioned, that sure took a hell of a left turn quickly.

*My* philosophy is, if a parent doesn't give two shits about his/her child's needs, he/she cannot meet her child's needs

And Shannon, I would say moving a guy and his four kids in, while really terrible, isn't quite as bad as trying to move your daughter out. It's closer than the reactions in the comments, so I do see your point.

Okay folks, what's the bottom line here: Should divorced parents be required to give up on romance and stop meeting potential new partners?

Think it over-- there's a LOT of divorced parents out there today.

Jefe based on your comments on this thread I am going to offer you a piece of advice... Find a better quality of woman to date bc damn! There are women outside of trailer parks that don't come with all of these problems. And no, moms don't get to put their responsibilities on the shelf just bc they have a new guy. I am also uncomfortable with your assessment that any child is toxic bc she needs her mom's attention. A broken home is second only to the death of a parent, so no the new boyfriend doesn't come first.

Shannon, you are right. There is a double standard, but that is bc women are traditionally the ones who raise the children. That is why there is less tolerance for a woman who abdicates her parental/nurturing duties.

Actually my two horses have been my most steadfast friends!

Sheep mommy-- It may have been discussed here before, that an essential part of parenting is teach the youngster how to find her own gratification. It has to start early. The kid who cries "I want I want I want" has never learned how to go and pick out her own toys and figure out her own games. When this is still an issue at age 16, and I've witnessed it, it speaks very poorly for the parent. Just because a kid needs attention isn't the problem, it's when the kid wants ALL of mom's attention. Mom has to be allowed some space of her own!
When I was 16, I had far better things to do than bug my folks for attention.

Now that I'm older, women with kids are more the rule than the exception. Nobody wants to be #2 in another person's life, but men today are discovering we're not even #3 or 4.
We think of Albert's words to Victoria while watching the yacht America: "There is no second" and it applies like crazy to where we fit in.

It's funny that this LW is getting so much more vitrol than the single/divorced dad from the other letter, who "had his heart broke" by the crazy lady that he moved in with after knowing for six months. No one is calling him a horrible father or saying he doesn't deserve a love life or advising him to hold off on dating until his kids are out of the house, yet the situations are relatively similar. -Shannon

Shannon, you are right. There is a double standard, but that is bc women are traditionally the ones who raise the children. That is why there is less tolerance for a woman who abdicates her parental/nurturing duties. - Sheep mommy

Sorry ladies there are a few MAJOR differences.
1. while we dont know the circumstances of the guys divorce I doubt it was boredom as in the case of this lady. She threw away a stable loving home for her daughter cause she wanted to get some strange, she couldnt get it on the side, wait three more years?

2. The guy never said his kids hated his choice of woman

3. The guy wasnt willing to kick his kids out of the house for someone one he knew for less than 1/8 of the lifespan of his children.

That guy was crazy to be have has he did and many people said so, but he wasnt being active cruel to his children, or contemplating how great his dick would feel once he finally got rid of the kids he called 'millstone'

Jefe: "if a parent cannot meet her own needs, she cannot meet her child's needs"

You mistake "needs" for "wants" in that first clause. In any event, the idea you push is a fallacy.

You use the "think of the chillllldren" logical error to cover your non-logic with sugary emotional appeal. The mother does not have to have it her way with the boyfriend to "meet her child's needs." That is a "false choice" logical fallacy, and you should avoid it.

Jefe: "Okay folks, what's the bottom line here: Should divorced parents be required to give up on romance and stop meeting potential new partners?"

Same false choice logical fallacy as above, only repackaged. Divorced parents can have romance. They can also take care of their kids. They may not, however, have the same options to do both simultaneously as people without kids. Welcome to parenthood, everyone!

"Shannon, you are right. There is a double standard, but that is bc women are traditionally the ones who raise the children. That is why there is less tolerance for a woman who abdicates her parental/nurturing duties."

Not to get all Mens Rights advocate or anything, but most people are generally happy to deploy cultural norms and prejudices regarding women and children to obtain for mothers custody of children during divorce proceedings. Therefore, I tend to reserve my sympathy for more deserving sides when, later, divorced mothers decry "double standards" regarding their behavior or actions as divorced mothers.

After all, this contrast here just shows that swords can come with a double edge. Something you should think about before swinging one.

Some people seem to be blaming the LW for her divorce. She says it was a mutual decision. That means she and her husband both decided to end it. If they decided to end it because it wasn't exciting enough, and they couldn't even wait for their daughter to grow up, that makes her an idiot. But he is just as responsible and just as big an idiot.

Yes, he's not the one writing for advice, etc. etc. But the responses are still blaming her as if she said something she didn't say. If the decision was mutual, she didn't dump her husband and she didn't throw her marriage away. She could not have saved the marriage by herself.

RM, I agree that the reason for marital dissolution is relatively unimportant here: the divorce is a fact now, and the questions faced are (1) how the mom will proceed with her love life, and (2) how the mother will treat her daugher. The second question is the big one, but the mother seems to think the first one is relatively important compared to the second one. Most here seem to think (1) is pretty unimportant compared to (2).

I think, however, that the reason some people jump on the mother about the reason for divorce is that many people's experience is that middle-aged divorces like the one described in this letter are often initiated by females who claim the "romance is gone..." or some similarly-daft cliche. Nothing in this letter says that is the case, but this letter also does have some of that suspiciously vague avoidance of the "why" issue. (People get sniffs of smoke and wonder where the combustion is, etc.)

Like I said, the "why" of a divorce becomes relatively unimportant once enacted and finalized, but the "why" is a topic some people feel strongly about, so the issue often insinuates itself in any examination of post-divorce conduct.

What can I say except, humans like to blame. Whattaya gonna do?

"Some people seem to be blaming the LW for her divorce. She says it was a mutual decision. That means she and her husband both decided to end it."

The woman is willing to banish her child from her life becuase it would make getting fucked SLIGHTLY easier. I wouldnt trust her account of things even if she said the sky was blue

Spartee,
I thought you might take my comment that way, but I was pressed for time last night and didn't express myself fully. I was merely making the observation that for better or worse, mothers are seen as the keepers of the children. It does not necessarily follow that men are bad parents or are not nurturing. My bil stays home with my niece and he is doing a great job. He is good with all kids and is great parent. If something happened to us, I would trust him and my sil with my child.

But you are right, that tradition is a double edged sword. Motherhood is a loaded topic but most people feel uneasy with a woman who seems willing to castoff her child so she pursue unencumbered adult time. I even agree w/ lujlp, I hate to hear these stories about women who want a divorce bc their marriage lacks "romance". Men get the raw end of that deal for sure, so I am in no way in this woman's corner.

Finally,with regard to jefe's comments, there is a vast difference between a child who is spoiled and is acting out bc she didn't get a new pair of Miss Me jeans and one who is acting out over the loss of her otherwise stable home life. He painted teenage girls with a large ugly brush that I don't think is fair. You seem to have some anger issues related to teen girls. I also thought it was really gross (and telling) that you would ever suggest that a teenage girl needs to "get laid". If it is true and the mom didn't throw you out immediately, you do need to follow my advice and find a better class of woman bc that was so inappropriate she should have kicked you in the ass on the way out. I would suggest given your feelings toward other people's children, you restrict your dating to never been married women. You might be happier.

"I think, however, that the reason some people jump on the mother about the reason for divorce is that many people's experience is that middle-aged divorces like the one described in this letter are often initiated by females who claim the "romance is gone..." or some similarly-daft cliche."

I trust Amy's summation of the facts. If the letter Amy posts says the divorce was a mutual decision, I believe her. There is no point getting upset with the LW about something she *didn't* do. If you do, and she reads the responses, she can just brush them off as being from people who weren't paying attention anyway.

Assuming that the letter Amy posted was accurate, I don't either think the father or mother is a fit parent for this child. Both of them decided to wander off in search of more fun, excitement, romance or whatever. And they did it at a time in their daughter's life when she really needs people she can rely on. Maybe there is another option, such as a grandparent the girl could live with - you know, an actual loving, responsible adult. If not one of her idiot parents is going to have to suck it up and take care of her.

Some people seem to be blaming the LW for her divorce. She says it was a mutual decision. That means she and her husband both decided to end it. If they decided to end it because it wasn't exciting enough, and they couldn't even wait for their daughter to grow up, that makes her an idiot. But he is just as responsible and just as big an idiot

That doesn't mean she's 50% responsible for a bad decision, and he's 50% responsible. Each of them has full, 100% responisibility for the divorce.

Mom has to be allowed some space of her own!

Where "some space" apparently means an entire house, which LW would rather share with this totally hot guy she picked up than with her daughter.

When I was 16, I had far better things to do than bug my folks for attention.

And when you were done with these awesome exciting things at the end of the day, and you were tired and hungry, did you happen to go TO YOUR HOUSE?

Yes I did, and I was often alone, and able to feed myself whatever I felt like.
I didn't judge what my parents were doing-- although some others did.

To the letter writer on behalf of her daughter:

Jesus, fucking christ. You suck as a mother and you suck at life. They make dildos, you know.

"But, I love him!", you'll say.

So what. Fuck you.

Clearly, your cock-blocking daughter would be better off with her father. So talk to her father about it. You don't have to talk to your daughter at all. Her father would probably be thrilled to ask his daughter to come and live with him. Just let him know that you've been too busy walking around town with a mattress strapped to your back to give half a shit about your daughter.

As many have said, it's likely that your daughter already knows the score and will happily move in with her remaining competent parent. Don't broach the subject yourself and let him ask her.

Although, I'd take a wild guess and venture that you aren't on speaking terms with her father. Otherwise, you'd have spoken with him about this long before you wrote into an advice column. Yep. Thought so.

Oh yeah ... one more thing. Fuck you.

Concerning the divorce part of the conversation, my experience was my ex said the same things, but the divorce was all her. It's said to be 50/50 cause there is no way to fight it and I wouldn't because of my kids. They're gonna have a hard enough time with out all the fighting to keep a woman (their Mom) where she doesn't want to be.

On the subject of whether the divorce was mutual or the mother's fault, again, Amy researches these situations and then summarizes them in the posted letters. Amy is a talented writer and takes a lot of time and care with her columns. She wrote: "After mutually ending a 20-year marriage that was more friendship than passion/romance,"

She also wrote: "But it's extremely indulgent of parents to break up a family simply because their romance waned and the sex got kinda yawny."

Parents, not one parent. We have no way of knowing which parent started it. It could have just as easily been the father having a mid-life crisis and wanting out of the marriage.

If you assume these statements in the letter aren't true, then there is no point believing anything else in the letter.

Criticizing the mother for something there is no evidence she did gives her an out to ignore criticism for the things she actually did do.

Yes, it could been the dad. But given how eager and willing the mother is to fuck over her daughter whom she, arguably, loves and wants to spend timed with, what are the odds that she was soul and kindness and compromise to the guy she didnt?

if a=b and b=c then a=c

I'm praying this womans daughter finds what I found with a mother like this- a friend whose own mother loves you like you were hers. LW women like you make me sick. And to the people who say that everyone is to hard on her. Amy is right- your child is not expendable! I wouldn't do this to my pets!! However I do agree w/ whistedick and the other people who said to ask the father- because then atleast if he wants your daughter she'll know she was loved and wanted by one parent!

Here's the thing with these mf-ing narcissists -- the mom can kick the daughter out and work on her bed sores with the new squeeze. Fast forward 15 years, when she and her daughter are estranged and she doesn't see her grandkids -- she'll be whining about how her daughter neglects HER. And that's the way the sociopaths crumble.

Sounds like my mother when I was a teen. She successfully drop me away senior year to live with a friends family. ( my dad had passes away) Needless to say, I am a grown woman with children of my own and she is no part of our lives. But I think that mat be what this sorry excuse for a mother wants