i am not going to comment on the mother's motives/feelings, etc. but she is definitely not doing her son any favors. my brother never moved out of the house. he never grew up and got a job (yes, there were emotional problems - but there were 4 of us and 3 managed to get away. not entirely without scars - but away). mother died. brother stayed with daddy. daddy got sick. daddy died at the age of 90. the call we sisters got from our brother? "how could he do this to me?" toward the end daddy would call us girls and say: "i should have been stronger. i should have stood up to your mother. i should have made him leave." yes, yes and yes. i hope the letter writer doesn't end up, at an advanced age, lamenting the same lack of action. my brother is in his mid-50s - and for the first time in his life trying to figure out HOW to have a life. sad. very sad.

My wife and I had a simple method for our four sons, although it may be a little late for this 23y.o. After completing college, they had a 3 to 6 month grace period of living at home for free while looking for work. After that we started charging room and board of $500/month (this was 10-15 years ago). The best thing happened after the first one moved out, he started undercutting us on the rent, so the next three would move in with him one at a time to get a better deal. Problem solved! They now range in age from 31 to 41 and all have their own home or condo.

One suggestion: Make living at home more unpleasant than moving out. Establish curfews, chores, etc. Change the locks and don't give him a new key, so he has to arrange his life around your schedule to avoid sleeping on the porch. Eventually he might decide that getting any job is better than living at home.

This guy is either an optimist or an idiot. Clearly the kid was living there the entire time he was dating her. What did he think was going to change?

I wouldn't propose anything other than saying "bye." She'll enable him for the rest of his life if she's allowed to.

Bob: I love your first son!!! (I am not gay)

Daghain: The lady might be otherwise so fine, that he consciously or unconsciously overlooked it a year ago, and now realized that it should have been a deal-breaker.

David: my opinion is to give an ultimatum: him or me, but in that case he would probably lose. He could also try to talk sense into the boy?

But mostly, he moved in HER place where she has HER big pet, I mean kid. So if he does not convince HER to do something ....

I agree with you Nico on this at least - if he steps up and protests, he's gunna lose. That may be good or bad, but it's hardly an easy decision. Especially since it sounds like she's working and can support herself and her son if need be. Seems less like a monetary problem and more of a morals problem. I can't see a fun situation coming out of that.

Also, as always, nice title Amy! How long do you spend finding the perfect pun for your columns?

This IS a tough one for the LW. The correct answer is "don't get involved with women who have adult children living at home in the first place." That needs to be an instant deal-breaker for any man who wants a long-term relationship.

If he give and ultimatum, he'll lose. Either she flat out says "my son comes first," and bounces him, or, even if he wins, the resentment will be endless.

"Be prepared for him to test her..."

Realize this may include the 23-year old son channeling an overly-sugared, under-rested three-year-old stuck on a transatlantic flight.

I've got a friend who would marry his girlfriend of 15+ years (and she would like to get married), but for this very issue. She's got a deadbeat son in his 20s still sponging off of her. So my friend decided he would keep his own place and she could keep hers. They stay together as a couple, and the offer of marriage stands open, but is conditional upon her son becoming independent, with a place of his own.

Now that her deadbeat son has gotten his equally deadbeat girlfriend pregnant, it doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon.

I'll give the guy a bit more leeway, in it is much easier to be fooled by someone claiming to be job hunting when you aren't living with them. Especially since when they just started dating, kid was probably just out of college, in a bad job market.

I'd start with "helping him": start off easy but get harder and more 'pushing him out the door' pretty quickly.
I'd start with helping him with his resume / goals. Make him write down goals, that you approve of, including how much time each day he does chores/ spends actually job hunting.
Next help with his interview skills. By giving him an interview, be harsh.
Critique, his job searching.
Help him get a job- anything, just to get him used to doing something. Have him start looking for better job.
Start charging him rent. Put rent into a savings account and don't tell him or her about it. (well maybe her if she can keep it secret).
Savings account is for his first 2 months in a new place.
Any signs of no ambition and crank up the heat.

FWIW, I knew someone in the same situation and they sent the 23-year old to live with his real dad (the mom's ex), who's a bit tougher and had work for him, and it seems to be helping. Good kid but also a bit lazy and knew just how to play the 'divorce guilt' card with his mom.

"they sent the 23-year old to live with his real dad" (To be clear, yes, he was also 23 years old .. just a coincidence.)

I think it's really bad to cripple one's children by not teaching them to become self-reliant - especially a man.

Most likely, she has been letting the kid slide for years. Has he ever really worked? If he went to college, did he major in something useful? The answer is probably "no" to both of those.

If that's true, it will take some genuine hard-ass measures to get him off his duff. He needs to be hungry. His mother will not allow this.

I am reminded of a cousin in my own family, who was also a deadbeat, and was also excused because of divorce. His mother knew she needed to push him out of the nest, but she just could not hold the line. While she did get him out of the house, she couldn't stop giving him money.

To keep from being bankrupted, her husband finally had to take control of the family finances. The mother then helped the deadbeat convince his grandmother (who was scraping by on social security) to max out her credit cards and give him money. He begged from aunts, from uncles, even - in desperation - from us, his cousins, even though we saw him for the slime he was.

He never changed. When he couldn't find any more suckers in the family (or they were tapped out), he started on friends and acquaintances, then turned thief and con man. Things were quiet during the times he was in jail; not so much need for money. He finally did piss of the wrong people, and they helped him into an early grave. With the exception of his mother, the entire family quietly sighed in relief.

Has LW sat down and had a serious discussion with her about this? I had a friend who wanted her adult son out for years and as soon as she got a man that kid was out the door! He may be able to persuade her that, at 23, tough love is the only answer and he will have to be there with her along the way to make sure the plan actually happens.

Also, I LOVE this advice from MonicaP...
"Make living at home more unpleasant than moving out. Establish curfews, chores, etc. Change the locks and don't give him a new key, so he has to arrange his life around your schedule to avoid sleeping on the porch. Eventually he might decide that getting any job is better than living at home." -DO THIS!!

I saw a pic online, it was a note on the door that said "You broke curfew. Don't even think about knocking or ringing the door bell. You may sleep on the porch. This time I was generous and provided a blanket." Loved that!!

Thank you! Sometimes, it just comes to me. (My brain, if I let it go, flies around and has some fun.) Other times, it's really hard!

I agree with Ltw. I'm equally amazed at how clever your pun titles are. This was another shining example.

My favorite, to this day, is "She Mrs. The Point" about the staunch feminist who hated being referred to as "Mr. and Mrs. John Doe", after getting married and taking on her husband's last name.

And your response was equally as classic ;-)

The given response to the LW's situation is spot-on, but maybe the unusual economy calls for some slack? If he's 23 now, he was ~18 when the world imploded five years ago, and any post-2008 college grad without a math/science degree can tell you how hard it's been since then to find something that pays enough to support a rent check. Plus, if "doesn't go to school" means "never went to school" (meaning diploma only), he's just uber-fucked.

By all means, put the little bastard to work, but think twice about throwing him out.

There's always military service. If he goes ROTC, they'll even pay for his college education, and he'll go in as a commissioned officer.

Compared to living in a cardboard box, enlistment or enrollment seems preferable.

But 23 and not in college? He could have finished by now.

ROTC is work, and actually being an officer is harder work. Advise him to win the lottery, because his odds are about as good.

He is probably unfit for military service of any kind. Most are. He doesn't sound like he is physically fit, and I can only speculate about disqualifying legal or drug issues. The fact remains, the military will not take the majority of Americans.

We let our son live, rent-free at home for years after college. However, he had a part-time job in his field and he paid off fifteen thousand in loans and saved the down payment for a house. Now he is on his own and has more money than I do.

I'm just glad my 18 year old son is working! He's not making much, but he's busting his ass. It's good for him.

My husbands oldest is similar...on his 6th year of a 2 year degree.

And this is exactly why I almost divorced him several years ago.

His kids are all pretty spoiled-though deep down good kids. The youngest in the senior year of high school can't wait to move out so they don't have multiple houses any more (husband has 50/50 joint custody with the ex).

All three younger kids are significantly more mature and more independent than he is. He was the first grandchild on both sides and probably suffered the brunt of the divorce.

The ex is probably personality disorder and then there is the competition-mommy is good at buying their love-dad's shame and guilt gets in the way of bring down the hammer. Then we also have my MIL who because mommy and daddy had kids at such a young age became a third parent who often undermines my husband when he does attempt discipline.

But we have made progress over the years (so I am staying) with the knowledge there will be a point that we kick him out if he doesn't contribute to the household or doesn't continue to make progress.

I am sympathetic due to the economy (and we live in NYC-getting his own place might require him and 4 best friends to get a studio).

But the other thing that I have said, is that it is not fair to suddenly kick him out without first giving him some time and spelling out expectations, and what can he contribute to the household-can't get a job-he's your cleaning crew.

Ours will also me our nanny in May.

Though I like MonicaP's idea-but I also like the money we will save in child care.

And us kicking him out would largely just mean he moves in with his mother-she doesn't want to be lonely (even has some other kid living with her as well as her step-son)-so us allowing him to stay may mean we can still influence him to be a grown-up the way she can't/won't.

Ugh. How the hell can people stand to live this way, sponging off of others well into adulthood?

As I've gotten older, I've found that when a lot of young people say they're looking for a job, they mean they're looking for THE job. I.e., the "job" that's never boring or frustrating where they can set their own hours that has really great benefits and high pay that they think they deserve because they're not like everything other unemployed, underqualified bum out there.

Well, guess what. You are not special. You are not above flipping burgers or mopping bathrooms.

My sister dated a guy for three years (during which I almost bit my tongue right off) who thought that because his parents spent a quarter million dollars on his education, he deserved nothing less than a really comfortable, respectable job. Walmart? McDonald's? No, I'm too good to be a cog in the corporate machine. Better to let my student girlfriend support me.

I wanted to hit him with a shovel.

"does nothing but eat, sleep, and poop", sounds like my baby! :)

I'd sit her down ( with the boy within earshot) and tell her the story of a pathetic loser that ruined his and his family's life simply by refusing to get out into the world.( and don't skimp on the loser bits)
Yeah I know it's kinda passive agressive ,but it works!

Sounds like the son is an Occupy Elm Streeter. I bet he voted for Obama.

I'm not sure guilt is a very good motivator. And I think telling a young person they're useless and pathetic may lead them to simply take it in and believe they are useless and pathetic. Helping him to feel useful, combined with positive reinforcement when he does something useful, might be better. But then, I don't know.

My stepson (14 at the time) once asked my why I kept a cockatiel as a pet as all it did was eat screech and poop. I responded with the obvious question. And that differs from you how?