When I was 15 (yeah yeah, back in the Stone[s] Age), I cried to a guy friend because I couldn't find my at-the-time boyfriend because he was *gasp* smoking a joint with some other people, one of whom happened to be *oh NO!* another girl!! And he looked at me sideways and said "oh? There's just the 2 of you in the world? You don't have guy friends that are just friends? What am I? Stop and think about what you're thinking about!"

And I did. And that's when it hit me: Jealousy is a manifestation of your own insecurities! It's a hard lesson to learn, but once you do, man, other people are so much easier to deal with.

My best friend is a woman, we met 14 years ago when I hung out with her (then) boyfriend who was my best friend at the time.

There is *no* romantic or sexual tension between us at all (hell, we could make Charley Brown and Lucy look like Snow White and Prince Charming). We would be the worst couple you could imagine if we tried.

But ... we're intellectually compatible. All modesty aside, it's hard to find someone who can keep up with me (and who also keeps me honest when I screw up).

I guess I've been pretty lucky with that, since my current girlfriend is entirely okay with my best friend (they actually get along pretty well, as it turns out, it's kind of funny when I overhear them comparing notes).

In a different scenario, I would absolutely draw a line if I was told I couldn't have a woman as my friend. That kind of attitude bespeaks other issues that would ruin the relationship anyway.

And ... For the challenge question, I'd like to see dry water (New and improved! Lipton dehydrated water! Just add water!)

This is something that varies from social circle to social circle. When people from circles with different norms hook up, problems ensue.

I had this problem with my husband. His parents did everything together, and rarely socialized apart, except his mom might meet other moms during the day, and group hobbies such as string quartet practice.

Whereas my parents were very social, and socialized with each other, without each other, in endless combinations. My line of reasoning is that a man and a woman can go out for coffee without it being anything more.

It's a hard thing to work through, Maligned, and there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

Some things to think about:

1) Does context matter? Does she see a difference between a hot co-worker you met recently and your elderly godmother? What about close family friends who felt like siblings or cousins? Does it make a difference if the woman is happily married, with kids?
2) Do you make an effort to introduce her to your good friends, and is she able to develop a relationship with them that is separate from the one you have?
3) Is there... and be honest... is there any sexual tension on one side or the other? Even if you're not attracted, is there any possibility that the woman -is- attracted to you, and that you enjoy the admiration?
4) Have you tried moving towards more socializing with your friends in group situations in which your girlfriend is present?
5) Are you a social flirt? By social flirt, I mean do you make slightly risque jokes or do you compliment and flatter, not because you're trying to get some, but just for fun? A lot of people are social flirts with their friends, but some people feel threatened by it.
6) Is there any chance that with any of these women, you are sort of "keeping the door open"? I plead guilty to this, back when I was unmarried but dating. I wasn't actively interested, but the whole, "Well if things don't work out with this match.com guy I wonder if I could date so-and-so" thoughts did flit across my head. This is what your girlfriend is afraid of. Is there any truth to it? It's a natural human trait to consider all the options. If this is the case, you need to be honest about it, at least to yourself.

Anyhow, the way it works out now is if my husband is available he joins me and my male friends, and if he isn't I might do something casual like coffee with a male friend, but not something like an all-day hike or movie night at his place just the two of us or anything like that. Because I'm older and I have a little kid, I tend to gravitate towards moms with little kids. Also, my male friends are mostly married or in relationships, so hanging out tends to include one or both spouses.

I've actually had this same problem with men in the past before my husband. I have always been fiercely indepenent and very active in pursuing my career. And, subtly has never been my strong suit. A lot of guys were often times attracted to it in the beginning, but then couldn't handle it in the long run. I knew my husband was the one when he not only didn't ask me to compromise my life for him.

My husband and I are often times like two ships passing in the night. I'm still very social, and very active in the theatre scene, and also have a day job. This requires a lot of late nights. He's a teacher and more of an introvert. Our careers and social lives just don't have schedules that line up. We do express that we miss each other often in particularly busy times, but never feelings of jealousy though.

On the outside, though, I can see why someone less secure would view my relationship with my best male friend as a threat. He's an attrative male and also my business partner. (We run a theatre company together). We are each other's creative and mental matches, and call each other on our bullshit all the time. We work extremely well together. We are so in tune with the other at work that almost no words are needed. It's almost frightening at times, actually. How in-synch we are has actually been commented on by other people. We are both willing to admit that if we were single, we'd probably be a good couple. And, so have our spouses. BUT, it's never occured to us or to either of our spouses that we'd cheat. I think there are lots of reasons this just isn't an issue.
-Both our spouses are secure in our marriages.
-Both our spouses have worked or do work in theatre so they understand the hours. I make every effort to include my hubby in my life. He hates the networking events (jaded ex-actor) but he's very supportive of my involvement.
-Communication. I also make sure that he knows what's going on with me at any given moment. And, I always call to check in no matter how late.
-We're so damn busy keeping our own company running, we both also have day jobs or I'm doing other gigs that there's no time to even think about cheating. And, even though the scene here is very lush, it's also small. We know everyone. We'd be caught.
-When I do have some precious rare downtime, I make sure that I spend it with my hubby.

None of this would work with a less secure man. I'd rather be single then tied to a man who couldn't handle my life.

All have good points so far, but for some reason, I think there's some information we're missing. LW tells us that every relationship he's had has been upended by his friendships with other women. I agree that normally a guy's female friends shouldn't be a big problem in the relationship, but they are in this case. That leads me to wonder about a couple of things:

- The type of girl LW is going out with. If they've consistently been clingy, needy, and jealous, than maybe LW needs to avoid girls like that in the future.

- How the LW handles relationships with female friends when he's steady with another girl. If a fellow is dating Meg, but goes on constantly about his pals Janey and Mary, I wouldn't blame Meg for getting tired of it after a while. She might be technically wrong for being jealous, but the fellow would be smart to tone it down a bit.

Again, this is speculation, since nothing about any of the relationships is spelled out plainly in the letter. But it's food for thought.

Old RPM Daddy has a good point - we are missing something from LW.

A couple of more points to ponder:
-Does LW introduce these female friends to his girlfriends?
-Does he make an effort to include her occasionally as most people do with friends and a steady?
-How much time is LW spending with these female friends?
-Does he have *guy* friends he spends time with?

So what's the common denominator?

If every woman you get involved with has the same problem, then there must be something about this shared trait that you find attractive.

I had the same problem. You keep picking jealous women, I kept picking selfish guys. Eventually I had an epiphany, decided to give the "too nice" man I'd met a real shot, and we've been together about twenty-two years now.

It's just a matter of breaking out of your rut, and finding one you like better.

No. If every woman he dates sees it as a problem, it doesn't mean they are all jealous necessarily. It could be, but it also could be that he behaves inappropriately with his female friends. Hard to say without seeing him in action. Maybe he's a touchy-feely theatre type and his girlfriends aren't.

Whatever the issue is, there's a disconnect between what he says his intent is, and how his girlfriends are reading his actions.

But the problem might not be with all of the girlfriends, it might be with him.

fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

An old saying but applies here, somewhat. If this is something that one gf did, than it's most likely her insecurity.
But if it's all gfs than it's one of 2 things: You are going after jealous women, or
You and your female friends are acting in a way that causes jealousy.

With me I had only one gf who was jealous of most of my female friends. But I have had some gf who were jealous of a female friend (not the same one but just one). With that I look at it as I am not the best at telling if someone is into me, and she proabbly sees that this friend is wanting more than friendship. Likewise I'm usually a bit better at seeing if a guy is into a girl than she is.

I don't think anyone has mentioned class differences. I have read that when working class couples go out together, the men sit together and talk. The women do the same. When middle class couples go out the men and wives sit together and pay most attention to each other. For upper class couples, the men sit with the other guy's wife and talk mostly to her. There are class differences, even in America. This guy sounds like an upper class guy dating middle class women.

The way I see it, there is no way to avoid at least the question in your spouses mind. Even the most secure person is occasionally going to question it. At least once.

The problem is that even if your spouse doesn't see a problem with it, society does. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a man and a woman to hang out without society imposing it's own views on that relationship, which will inevitably work their way into your spouses train of thought, if they want to or not.

Society as a whole is unwilling to accept simple friendship between a man and a woman. I've even had people look at me funny when I hang out with a gay buddy.

Just gotta deal....

I have male friends and my husband has female friends, and that's fine, but it's wise to pay attention to your partner's opposite-gender friendships. I don't know how many times I've heard the "But he's just a friend!" stuff, only to find out later that the people involved were having an affair. I'm watching two marriages in my social circle implode because of "friendships" that have gotten out of control.

Every girl he's dated reacted jealously about his platonic girlfriends?

That makes me wonder about whether there is more to the story. Is he dating clingy, needy girls, or is there more to this story? If these platonic women are a regular fixture in his life, it would make sense to introduce them to his girlfriends who are becoming a regular fixture in his life. Is he doing this?

I've dated guys with fantastic platonic girlfriends, and I've dated a couple of guys whose platonic girlfriends perceived any romantic involvement on his part as a threat, and sought to annihilate those threats. Does make me wonder.

On the other hand, one of the nicer things my ex-husband said to me was related to my not being too involved with his other interests.

He had a huge shop. I only went out occasionally to make sure he wasn't bleeding out on the floor (I'm a worry-wart), and to oooohhhh and ahhhh over his projects. For years, the women in his family rode my ass for not knowing where he kept his tools, for not having my own space in the shop, for not just going out and taking shit I need, etc. I think they saw me as too girly and not showing enough interest in his hobbies. I finally asked one day if this bothered him, and he said "are you kidding? I love that about you!".

You're right, NicoleK. Even though he says he's maligned, he could be saying one thing and doing another.

Still, he is the common denominator, if it's 'every' woman he gets involved with. He's either finding it, or he's causing it.

I knew a guy who told me,(after he and I had settled into 'just friends' status)that he often broke things off with women because he knew something was going to go wrong, and this way he had control of the situation. Some of us are just wired weirder than others.

By this guy's measure, I'd be un-dateable: All of my clients are women!

Oh yeah, I want to drive to work in my 'privates", too...

Every woman I've ever had a relationship with has freaked over my friendships with other women.

I'm curious how many women you've had a relationship with? If it's, say, ten-to-twenty or so, then I'd say you have a knack for picking women who are jealous/insecure. On the other hand, if it's only a couple, then keep looking. You'll meet one who's okay with it. I've been in relationships with a number of women who didn't freak out over it.

Good point, Ken. Even if its not socio-economic, they could be from very different cultural milieus, even within America.

Yes, but even if they were from different socio-economic/class levels as Ken points out, wouldn't the complaint most likely have been "you aren't paying enough attention to *me*", not jealousy of the women he does pay attention to? Or perhaps this is his perception of the reason for the breakup?

I suspect if there were a significant cultural or class difference, Amy would have identified and discussed it. Could be wrong though.

I don't think its a class or socio-economic thing, because it has supposidly happened several times. People generally don't date from a single class, and have only friends from a different single class.
The complaint would have then been his female friends are snubbing me because they think I'm stuck up or because they are.

I'm with those that think there's a lot more to this. When "every" woman has a problem with this guy's insistence on "friendships with other women." My guess is that he's the problem.

Most guys don't have a lot of "friendships with other women." One or two, maybe, but we just don't have that much time--and it's weird that his "friendships" aren't mostly with other men. Maybe he likes the attention. Maybe he's flirty. The evidence appears that it isn't just one or two needy women--it's all of them.

Hmmmmmm.....

I wonder: is the jealousy directed towards any and all of LW's female friends, or at one female friend in particular? After all, I think it's safe to say that if every single woman he's dated has come to the same conclusion, there's probably a pretty good reason. Either he's dating neurotically jealous women, he's consistently behaving inappropriately with his female friends, OR there's a dynamic with one particular friend that his exes have picked up on but he's unaware/in denial about.

Maybe it's not what he thinks. Maybe the women realize he is more feminine and girl friendy ish....Maybe these women think he leans a little too much on the gay side.

What i do not realize is in reality how you are now not actually a lot more smartly-appreciated than you might be right now.
You are so intelligent. You know thus considerably relating to this topic,
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