All friendships aren't meant to live forever, especially when spouses are involved. Accept that. It hurts. Move on.

In what context were these plans actually "committed" to?

People "commit" in a light-hearted manner to many things. And don't really expect anyone to hold them to it.

Though husband should be more straight forward and say that he isn't comfortable spending that kind of money for something that isn't a priority right now.

And just because someone is well-off doesn't mean that money is liquid or not committed to something else.

Full disclosure: I am relatively cheap, so I may be a little biased.

I agree, try to have some sympathy for your friend. She is married to the guy so it's reasonable that making him happy and not causing problems in her relationship takes priority over some plan she made ten years ago. And frankly, I think it'd be more fun to celebrate my 10 year anniversary alone with my husband than with another couple where one person is obviously unhappy and bitching the whole time about costs and so on. And really now, just because you met the same night and got married the same year doesn't mean you four are attached at the hip for every major marital anniversary for eternity.

Go and have a good time and let them be. It's also possible that by not making such a big deal of it might motivate him to come around and actually go on the trip when he doesn't feel so much pressure.

The guy isn't being cheap, he just doesn't want to go on vacation with you and your husband and doesn't know to just tell you that straight-forwardly. He'd rather have an expensive, romantic vacation in an exotic locale with his wife only. Perhaps she agrees.

Tell your friend -- sans animosity -- that you're weary of searching, you're booking a hotel, and you hope they'll join you if it works for them.

I agree with Amy's advice here...partially: the part where you go ahead and book a hotel. I disagree with the part about telling your friend that you hope they join you. If this guy were to end up going, he'd probably be cranky that he/they had to spend the money and it would end up detracting from your enjoyment of the trip.

Why not do both things? It doesn't have to be either/or. Celebrate in Hawaii with your husband and also have a celebration with the other couple at home.

I would just like to add that the friend is right to stand by her husband over her friend in any case. We don't know what arguments go on between the two of them, but complaining to your friend about your husband's cheapness won't help anything. Whereas defending him might help a little. Clearly the husband is lucky to have a wife as loyal as her. I don't know whether she is lucky to have him. Hopefully, he has some redeeming qualities that are not obvious from the letter.

I agree wholeheartedly with JD. You don't want them on your vacation with you. It would do a lot of damage to the friendship and cause a lot of resentment.

This "pledge" to spend the tenth anniversary together as a group is cute. People say shit like that when it's ten years out.

Be gracious and understanding and let your friend and her husband off the hook. Then, go and have a good time without them.

A vacation to Hawaii is expensive, I don't blame him for wanting to put his money elsewhere. Doesn't sound like you really like him, so why do you want to go on an expensive vacation?

Bump this couple down a notch from BFFs to casual friends, and hang out with them in more low-key locales if you still want to see them.

I have to say I'd be pretty pissed off if friends were pressuring me to do some very expensive stuff with them. I've got relatives who do it, and I hate that kind of pressure.

I would ask him outright (but gently), "Do you still want to go?" And if he says no, let them off the hook. If he says yes, ask him to research flights and hotels and get back to you by Friday.

"The origins of his cheapitude may be in his upbringing..."

When I was a young child, we were a solidly middle-class, leaning towards upper-middle-class, household. Then my parents got divorced and both of them went deeply into debt, so my brother and I went from a comfortable middle class existence to looking-under-the-couch-cushions-for-change poor. This was our condition for most of my preteen and teen years. We seldom got allowances, and any money that we earned was soon "borrowed" by our parents, never to be seen again. I reached adulthood knowing nothing about how to manage or invest money, since I'd never had the opportunity to do so.

There were a lot of painful lessons I had to learn after that. Even today, I wouldn't say that I'm good with money, and I know that the problem is that I've never been able to shake my distrust of it.

Blimey, the LW sounds like a nutter. Obsessed about a flippant agreement made a decade ago in the spirit of a 'moment', and which most sane people would probably have forgotten about the next morning, after the booze had worn off.

I can't believe most of the debate seems to be about the guy's miserly spending habits (which we only have the LW's word for, unless she supplied Amy with their annual accounts for the last five years).

This is almost certainly about the guy wanting to back away slowly from the lunatic who's behaving as though, ten years ago, he signed some kind of blood-oath.

Has the woman who wrote this letter stopped for five minutes to consider the possibility that (a) this couple's life does not revolve around whatever the hell it is she wants to do, and (b) that the guy (and perhaps the woman as well) just do not want to do the damn trip?

The answer of course is 'no', because she still seems intent on bludgeoning them into submission to the point where she writes to an internet 'agony aunt' (sorry Amy) instead of just making her own damn plans for a holiday.

The LW says this is about money, but actually, it's about her not being able to take 'no' for an answer and let these people make their own damn decisions.

I've been in a couple of long-term relationships in which my girlfriend has friends like this, where not only have I had to address my partner's seemingly infinite demands and expectations, but also those of her bloody friends (the dose is the poison here).

In those kinds of relationship, it doesn't take long for one to start fantasizing about buying a spade and digging a few shallow graves.

...it doesn't take long for one to start fantasizing about buying a spade and digging a few shallow graves.

While I think that's a little bit extreme, I don't think you're far off the mark. That said, however, there are some people that hold on to shit like that, and try to insist that it happen. I had a friend in high school, who made us all swear that we'd meet for New Year's 2000 in New Orleans. Not only do I not know if he made it, I have no idea if the others did, since I certainly didn't. Holding people to "plans" like these is rather unrealistic, IMNSHO. But yeah, she's got to come right out and ask, "do you or don't you?" And if they don't, she needs to just let it be. She and her hubby can go if they want. Done.

While I do agree there is more than likely a bio component to cheapitude, it's like the nature/nurture argument - or which came first, the chicken or the egg. Maybe I have a cheap gene, but my upbringing drove it home. I had two pair of socks the year I grew six inches. My knee socks became calf socks. Both had holes. We were the middle class poor, and there wasn't a penny that my parents didn't squeeze until it screamed.

I'm in my mid 50's now, and I'm in the upper middle class. Plenty of leftovers at the end of the month, a fat 401k, and really, no worries. But I hide money in shoes, under carpeting...have even considered burying some in my back yard. I have learned to spend, but it hasn't been easy. I calculate every unnecesary expense until I convince myself that it's not just a frivolity.

My biggest extravagance is that I have about 250 pair of socks.

What a princess this LW is. She sounds like someone I would avoid, too.

So, the other couple doesn't want to go.

Figure out a way to entertain yourself and deal.

...While I think that's a little bit extreme

Flynne, I wasn't expecting to be taken too literally there, just a little hyperbole on my part in communicating the frustration one feels in these situations.

Something else worthy of consideration perhaps, is this (although this is a minor detail). Being English I'm used to having between 4 and 5 weeks annual holiday (vacation) from work, excluding a minimum of 8 statutory days. Many Americans I've known get only 2 weeks paid vacation. And in that situation, I'd be buggered if I'm spending it doing something that a third party has demanded I do.

To me the telling part is "I'm angry with my friend for never telling her husband to curb his cheapness and for not standing up for our plans and worried that my anger could affect our friendship."

Full Sarcasm mode...
How dare you not manipulate your husband to my wishes? where are your priorities, with your husband?

I've gone on trips with cheap people, and it was uncomfortable, but I've also been on trips with demanding people like the LW, I'll take the cheap people.

Sometimes people are "well-off" because they've held tightly to every dollar they've ever earned. So let this guy grip the nickel till his hands bleed while you and your husband enjoy an amazing time in Hawaii.

I agree with Amy, and Tangoecho...make your plans without him. He doesn't sound like anyone I'd want to spend a vacation with anyway.

I hate vacationing with other couples. Limits your mobility and results in lots of tension. This cheapskate is right, except he could maybe directly tell LW he just doesn´t want to go.

I feel for the LW, who has been looking forward to this for a long time. I feel sure this has come up a lot over the last 10 years, and if everyone has been going along with it, she had no reason to think the other couple would back out. Fulfilling a 10-year-old pledge after such a great "night we met" story /would/ be awesome. That's a story you share with future generations.

The other couple owes her a straight answer. She should ask for one (nicely), at which point her friend will have to make her case to the husband if she really wants to go.

Repeatedly making excuses about the hotels is a dick move.

I'm with FD @ 10:58 on this one.

Hey OP, did the guy pinky swear on it? It's not binding unless he pinky swore.

I guess I don't understand why (if the other couple really is still interested in going) they all have to fly over on the same plane and stay in the same hotel. If Mr. Cheap wants to take a cheaper flight and stay in less expensive hotel, can't they just meet out for meals and activities?

These days, a lot of people are in uncertain job situations. My husband is a federal employee in DOD, and he is facing a one day unpaid furlough every week starting in April under the sequester.
This will cut his net pay by 20 percent, which means there is no more "fun money" period, until some time in the future.
We live well within our means, so we will do better than most, but I pity the over extended who spend as if borrowed money never has to be paid back.

I am sure we appear well off to the casual observer, but my father was a teenager during the depression, and 2013 is shaping up to look a lot like a high tech version of 1936.
I would never blow a lot of money or time on a vacation like this unless I was way more wealthy, than just comfortably well off.
Maybe this poor frugal guy just has a much better clue how dicey the current economic climate really is, than what sounds like a bubble headed, and somewhat economically clueless letter writer.

Sorry but cheapness for the sake of cheapness is very annoying.

However the advice Amy gave is correct. I agree with others that said you do not want them on your vacation. Cheap people are the worst to go out with. I do not mean those that are frugal, or smart about money. I mean those that are obsessive compulsive about money in an impolite manner and to the extreme.

When I'm broke I tell my friends and they tell me. We do very very cheap stuff, however if I have a little extra I love spending it enjoying the company of friends.

The friend is currently writing Dear Abby (hasn't been introduced to Amy yet, unfortunately) and is saying something like, "I know my husband is being a little bit passive-aggressive, but my friend LW is driving us crazy with her insistence on this 10th anniversary Hawaii trip. I hate to lose her friendship over this, but she's obsessed with it and won't let it go. What should we do?"

Dear Friend,
Let's be clear - your marriage is more important than your friend. Be honest and direct with her, and tell her you've decided not to go, but recognize that she's being controlling and manipulative. You and your husband are the only ones who need to make a decision here; not only on going to Hawaii, but on continuing to associate with this woman.

Some of these letters make it sound like this guy is a cheapskate who never pays for dinner and saves the good beer for himself when friends visit. (Yeah, I'm looking at you Ppen.) Having the money, but not wanting to go out on your tenth is cheap. Not being willing to go to Hawaii is not being cheap, for most income ranges it is quite reasonable.

I frequently travel to Hawaii for work. For the island I visit, getting a plane ticket for less than $900, a room for less than $250, and spending less than $100 per day on food is not easy. Not to mention a car and doing things that are fun. And that's me solo, although the room would not be more for a couple.

Would I call a man cheap because he didn't want to spend more than $5K on a vacation with another couple? Especially with a little princess who is mad at her friend because she won't up for their plans? (What's her friend supposed to do, tell her husband, "Either we celebrate our 10th in Hawaii with our three friends, or we won't have a tenth!" That'd be a fun vacation.)

SlowMindThinking if you read Amy's comment above this guy is the bad kind of cheap. Often times Amy has multiple emails with the LW to establish facts.

I'm not chastising him for not wanting a vacation in Hawaii with another couple, but this guy is obsessive compulsive about money.

I've heard of controlling women trying to control their husbands, but this woman wants to control her *friend's* husband? WTF.

He doesn't agree with your idea of a great vacation, get over it. Why should HE have a crappy vacation because of what YOU want? You don't get to dictate where he goes for vacation.

"I'm angry with my friend for never telling her husband to curb his cheapness"

So you want to control your friend too? If it bothered her that much, she can bring it up all on her own. Really, stop bossing other people around.

No wonder this guy doesn't want to go on vacation with you. He probably doesn't want to ruin his anniversary vacation listening to you nag about what a cheapskate he is and boss him around as to how to spend his money and what to spend it on. I wouldn't want to go on vacation with you either.

How do you really know he's "well off"? I've learned in life, you can NEVER truly guess another person's financial situation, *ever* (*especially* not based on the appearances people put up). Maybe he's stressed about losing his job, maybe he doesn't quite have enough for retirement, maybe he has some investments that are going or have gone bad, maybe he wants to actually have enough if he runs into severe medical problems, maybe he is genetically predisposed to some condition and needs to save for care later in life, maybe he actually wants to send his kids to university, maybe he has debt you don't know about. It's NONE of LW's f'ing business.

So... Where is the LW's husband in all this. He's supposed to be cheap's friend, yeah?

It is TELLING that LW is complaining about her girlfriend's lack of power over her husband, rather than having her own man in the game.

So, we have ONLY her word that this guy is actually cheap, and only her side about what her friend will or won't do. Mr. Cheap may not be able to say it direct because his wife values the friendship, but perhaps she doesn't want to go either.
We've established that it's an expensive trip.
Not wanting to go, doesn't make him cheap. It may be as simple as he doesn't like the ocean, or the tropics.

In any case, I'd think she'd want some alone time w/ her own man.

I bet both the guys would be happier with a game of pool, to celebrate their collective 10years. She's NOT listening.

I hear Amy's point about people sometimes being 'too frugal' - but I don't think the best way to try have someone unlearn being overly frugal is to push them into spending a small fortune on something they don't like - that will have the opposite effect, as he'll then be even more afraid every time he's asked to spend money in future, as he'll just recall the time he gave in and ended up spending a lot of money to go to Hawaii to listen to a nagging woman who doesn't like him tell him how cheap he is the whole time.

No, the way to unlearn being frugal is for him to start spending little bits on things he actually enjoys, so there is at least some measure of 'reward'.

>SlowMindThinking if you read Amy's comment above this guy is the bad kind of cheap. Often times Amy has multiple emails with the LW to establish facts.

______

It doesn't matter how many emails Amy has exchanged with the LW regarding the 'facts' of this guy's alleged miserliness. The LW is not in a position to comment precisely and accurately on the financial status of her friends.

At best the 'facts' are the LW's opinion, at worst they are a convenient assumption by the LW to justify her demanding, self-centred behaviour.

he isn't able to say yes to spending money on a pricey vacation when he probably spends much of his life worrying that he'll someday have to pawn a kidney to buy groceries

That's not an unreasonable fear. If you disagree, just ask the Cypriots how their bank accounts are doing.

Besides, he might be saving his shekels to buy a tropical island, far away from the moral busybodies who are busy minding everyone else's business. You know the type: Nanny Bloomberg.

FD,

Here is the thing about Amy she gets to the truth even when the facts are one sided. Also a "one sided" story can still tell you everything you need to know.

Here Amy gave perfect advice.

Other people on here seem against the LW even though as you pointed out her story was one sided.

Beyond the obvious - Maybe He Just Doesn't Want To Go To Hawaii - how would You like to be held to a casual promise you made, possibly while intoxicated, more than 10 years ago???

This is so no big deal, and you should have dropped it when it became clear that pushing the issue would create a lot more animosity than any fun the trip could provide.

I can see how Couple A plus half of Couple B is disappointed, but really, it's not as if Hubby B backed out on donating a kidney.

"FD,

Here is the thing about Amy she gets to the truth even when the facts are one sided. Also a "one sided" story can still tell you everything you need to know."

Ppen, Amy can only find out the information the source has access to. Unless Amy's been running around the other couple's neighborhood with a lock-pick and cattleprod.

A list of those who really know a man's financial situation, in order of how much they are likely to know, would probably go something like:

1. You
2. The IRS
3. Your wife (in many cases but not all)

Friends/family/neighbors etc. would be somewhere on page 20-something on the list. I don't care how much you think you know about any of your friends financial situations, you don't. There just is no way LW knows this guy's financial situation, and given how extremely judgmental she is, it wouldn't surprise me if her own friend is lying to her about how well off she is to play up his actual financial situation.

Actually that would be:
1. You
2. Your accountant
3. The IRS
4. Your wife, maybe

I have a husband like that. Makes 6 figures but took 6 years to agree to 1 vacation. (Not even a weekend at a nearby beach before that.) It is awful and I, as his wife, cannot change him. So please do't blame your friend.

What I learned is, if his wife wants to go on the trip, make non-refundable reservations and tell him AFTERWARD.

If he pouts and won't go, she should go without him and have fun (and send e-postcards to him). He'll learn his lesson.

interesting story, thanks for sharing.

I have to say I'd be pretty pissed off if friends were pressuring me to do some very expensive stuff with them. I've got relatives who do it, and I hate that kind of pressure.

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