I lost a husband about 15 years ago. It's a shock at first to wake up the next day and realize people are still going about their business, but it wears off - and yes, you'll feel guilty the first couple times you laugh at something, but it is different for everybody and it doesn't go on forever. Eventually you will get to the point where you can look back at your life with that person fondly and not burst into tears. Sounds like the LW is well on his way there.

"It's a shock at first to wake up the next day and realize people are still going about their business"

I experienced the same thing when my grandfather died. I was shocked that it was a sunny day. It should have been pouring rain. I remember going into a quickie mart for a pack of cigarettes, and being shocked further that the clerk was laughing with a customer. Didn't they know my grandfather had died?

It passes, LW. No emotion can remain at fever pitch forever.

It is the height of arrogance, stupidity and rudeness that someone should tell you how to grieve.

I would cheerfully tell these people to bite the whitest part of my ass.

Condolences, btw.

Four months is definitely more than long enough to be feeling OK by now, wow. I don't get the modern Western-cultural obsession with 'over-doing' grief.

Wouldn't the grieving process also tailor itself based upon those who we are grieving for?

Your girlfriend being struck down by a speeding car would not likely invoke the same emotions as your ninety-year-old mother finally losing her ten-month battle with cancer.

Certain deaths include relief in the emotional cocktail. Others might include indignation. I'm glad you pointed out that the five stages of grief were originally intended to refer to those who are dying themselves, not those who lost loved ones. The idea that all deaths, regardless of the circumstance, should invoke the same stages seems rather simplistic.

Says the LW: I often think of things I wish I could tell her or we could do together, but I'm comforted by remembering all the positive things about us and her, and I'm grateful for the time we did have.

Sorry for your loss, LW. I'm no expert, but I don't imagine your friends are, either. Further, even if the stages of grief they talk about were scientifically valid, I don't imagine they would manifest themselves in the same way for everybody. From what I can see of it, your words quoted above seem like a pretty healthy attitude.

Condolences, LW.

Oh, and your friends are tools.

"The next time they suggest you're grieving incorrectly, you might reassure them. Tell them you're in the "bargaining" stage and that you'd feel much better if only they'd stock your fridge with beer and steak, and on their way out, would they mind detailing your car."

This. So this.

What Sabrina said. Everybody grieves in their own way, there's no "right" or "wrong" way to grieve. You'll be fine, LW. Just fine.

Wow, people can be so tone deaf in their desire to be helpful.

A coworker of mine started dating again just shy of a year after his wife passed away, and you'd think he was having sex on her grave, given how people reacted.

Like your friends, people were saying to him, "I worry you haven't taken enough time to grieve and that it will come back to bite you..."

He always cut them off and said, "Look, I knew Sherri better than anyone. And I know she'd want me to be happy."

That usually shut them up.

What gets me is the idea that grieving is a process with a beginning and end. It isn't. My mother is gone almost 4 years. Most of the time it's fine. Sometimes I still experience flashes of intense sadness, like when my daughter was born and my mother wasn't there to see her. That's normal, and it doesn't say anything about the quality of grief.

Americans seem to want to be able to tie everything up in a neat bow after a clearly defined process, complete with checklist.

I once had a pastor tell me that my grieving would take one month for every month I knew the deceased person. I still wonder what kind of clueless idiot he had to be to say such a thing.

And something off topic - what's with the Americans/Western Culture comments? There are plenty of us who would not over-do the grieving and don't need to tie things up all neatly. I don't understand the stereotype. Does it make you feel better?

People are different.

Why is it that hysterical nitwits (men and women, but mostly women) expect everyone else to respond to a tragedy like a hysterical nitwit?

Is is too many soap operas and romance novels?

I don't understand the stereotype.

I haven't observed this behavior in people of other cultures. Just Americans, for some reason. Maybe it exists in other cultures, but I haven't seen it.

Does it make you feel better?

What?

Your comment was that you don't get "the modern Western-cultural obsession with 'over-doing' grief". Saying that it's your observation only strengthens my thought that it's a stereotype. And I, only one of many Americans who don't fit that stereotype, don't appreciate it. American bashing seems to be a popular sport lately. I'm just wondering what you get out of it. Especially when your judgments are wrong. There are people in every culture and every country who grieve strongly. To say that they are over-doing it is as wrong as saying that they aren't grieving enough. It's a personal process that shouldn't be judged per individual, let alone per culture.

"There are plenty of us who would not over-do the grieving and don't need to tie things up all neatly. I don't understand the stereotype."

If you don't understand the generalization, then spend some time amongst members of other cultures, particularly where there are higher mortality rates for many of the things we take for granted in modernized societies. Over-doing grief IS cultural, whether you want to call it that or not .. it doesn't mean every single member of that culture behaves that way, FFS. I CAN say that Chinese people like rice without it meaning that every single Chinese person likes rice.

Your comment was that you don't get "the modern Western-cultural obsession with 'over-doing' grief"

PS that was my comment. And it clearly stands, or we wouldn't even have this letter as a topic today. And some of the comments in the thread again just re-confirm it - e.g. sofar's comment "A coworker of mine started dating again just shy of a year after his wife passed away, and you'd think he was having sex on her grave, given how people reacted" and Laurie's comment "I once had a pastor tell me that my grieving would take one month for every month I knew the deceased person" ..... more confirmation.

"What gets me is the idea that grieving is a process with a beginning and end. It isn't. My mother is gone almost 4 years. Most of the time it's fine. Sometimes I still experience flashes of intense sadness, like when my daughter was born and my mother wasn't there to see her. That's normal, and it doesn't say anything about the quality of grief."

^^THIS, right here. Fifteen years later, I can still have a total moment of grief over the stupidest, most mundane thing ever.

You don't ever get over it, but you do get through it. And you learn to cope.

Thanks, Amy. It's more complicated in the fact that my husband, at 35, killed himself (I SO hate the PC-term "completed suicide" as if it was some sort of fucking goal or something). The so-called "experts" say suicide survivors (as we're called - seems to me a suicide survivor is someone who tried and failed, but there you go) suffer a "complicated grief". We do, as the death was intentional. But you know what? You can 'what if' yourself into the crazy-house. Literally. At some point you have to realize this person was hurting and really thought we'd all be better off.

They don't do it to spite us. They do it because they don't see another way out. It's mental illness, plain and simple. That takes a long time to make peace with, especially if your last words to the person were less than favorable, as mine were.

But, fifteen years lends a lot of perspective.

The three days that car sat in the storage garage were the longest three days out of my life, outside of the week he went missing. I can totally see how family members end their lives too, in the aftermath. It's a lot to take. I'm not saying I'm super special or super strong, but I AM super stubborn. Plus, after seeing what it did to his family, no WAY could I do it to mine. It's horrible.

But I think the LW has his shit together, and he'll be just fine, as long as he doesn't listen to the idiots who are trying to "help" him.

I disagree that western culture extends grieving more than other cultures. That's my experience, I have no scientific basis for it, and from what you've written, Lobster, I don't see any proof that you do either. None of what you have said proves your point to me. I still wonder why you would want to "western culture" bash. It's my pet peeve lately.

"Completed Suicide"? That's really what they call it? Jesus...

Last year, a guy I knew jumped from his office window to his death. I was respectful when he died because even though I didn't personally couldn't stand him, I didn't wish him harm. And, no matter what I think, he did have family and friends who were devistated by his death. But no one, not even his own family, denied what he actually did. When it was reported, they said "jumped to his death". There was no muddling of the facts. No PC'isms. Just facts.

I'm so sorry, Daghain and Amy.

I disagree that western culture extends grieving more than other cultures.

And I agree with you. I've seen westerners be super practical a few days after, and I've seen people whose families hail from other countries still locked up in their rooms crying months after a death. It depends on the person, more than the culture.

In fact, my boyfriend and best friend are Indian, and they both can't STAND the prolonged, torturous mourning customs they are "required" to go through. Not sure if it's the case for all of India, but, where they are from, you are expected to open your home for weeks after the death and allow the parade of mourners to come through and sob with you. Sure, they bring you food, too, and, when done right, this tradition give the bereaved some excellent support. But you're expected to sit down with each person individually and have a good cry. When my friend's grandfather died, her mother was criticized by the community -- People who were still trickling into her home a couple weeks AFTER the death were disappointed that her mom didn't want to cry anymore. She kept saying that she "had no tears left", and people were genuinely disappointed that she didn't want to sit on the couch for an hour and give them the good, dramatic cry they'd come for.

I had a friend who tried to commit suicide. She somehow survived. When I think about it I still feel a little bit guilty and certainly did then.

She was waitress at a place I frequented and they generally had a lot of waitstaff (like 1 for 3 tables) so they would hang out and talk. She had become quite the friend though I rarely saw her outside that place. That night I had the strongest urge to go see her...not just go out but specifically to see her -- I didn't have any money so I didn't. After she had recovered she was back at work she recounted to me that "If there had been one friendly face that night she wouldn't have done it."

Anyway, the sounds fine to me.

Men often kill themselves after divorce.

Sometimes a death isn't necessary to cause intolerable grief.

Yes, for those of you who didn't know, "completed suicide" is now the acceptable, PC term for it. Because "committed suicide" is just mean, yanno. *cue eyeroll.

Sugar coating it doesn't make it less awful, and, in my opinion, makes it sound like a) something one could aspire to and b) totally okay to do.

It should sound nasty. It is.

"I still wonder why you would want to "western culture" bash. It's my pet peeve lately."

I've spent time amongst poor African cultures. The kind where mothers lose their babies and within days they must continue life as normal as they must to survive, and they do. So I'm so sorry it's your "pet peeve" but it's my "pet peeve" to then hear how people who this happens to in 'first world' countries go on and on as if it's this huge dramatic thing that you can never ever possibly even hope to half recover from .... BS, e.g. for most of human history it was normal to lose a relatively sizable percent of your offspring. So I don't feel much for your sheltered-life 'pet peeve'.

My 23-year-old son died four months ago. He accidentally overdosed on his prescription meds for anxiety disorder. Our family is devastated. I keep thinking there's some way to get him back. I know it's irrational, but I can't face the finality of it. I don't know how long the grieving process will go on, but there are ok days and really bad days, and I'm just trying to get through it. Thank you, Amy, for addressing this topic.

I CAN say that Chinese people like rice without it meaning that every single Chinese person likes rice.

I dunno, based on my experience with Asians of all nationalities, I think it may be safe to say that every single Chinese person likes rice.

On a more topical note, I am always irritated by those who say it's "too soon" to date or remarry. My mother lost her first husband very suddenly (he was a Navy pilot killed while out on maneuvers). She married my father a little over a year later. Sometimes, that is the way life plays out.

I hate to hijack Amy's blog to answer your ridiculous tirade Lobster, and this will be the last I say about it. You call my life sheltered when you know absolutely nothing about me. I have traveled to many places, seen much in this world. I have done this enough that I am not willing to put labels on any group. I could mention groups that I think prove my point, but I don't prefer to generalize... or to say it another way, I do not prejudge groups. You have seen Africans lose their children, therefore Westerners obsess over grieving? You're still not proving anything to me except maybe that you're overreacting and need some anger management strategies. Over and Out.

How I wish Crid would show up and address Lobster's diatribe on his multicultural experiences with grieving African mothers. Yeah, Laurie -- I'm with you on the anti-American bashing. I have a couple of non-American friends who do it all the time, in my presence, and it pisses me off. It's so incredibly rude. What am I supposed to do -- smile and agree? Look cowed and ashamed?

And I also think Lobster is wrong on his generalizations of the American grief process. Yeah, there are some grief junkies. But I think there are at least an equal number of people on the opposite side of the spectrum as well -- the ones who demand that a fresh widow "cheer up" and "get out there and date!" whether she wants to or not. (If you ask me, those people are even worse than the grief junkies.) But in my experience most people -- yes, even Americans -- are content to let you grieve your own way unless perhaps you're wearing sackcloth and ashes and still locked in your bedroom ten years out.

Anyhoo. Grieving is an individual thing. It doesn't hit everyone the same way, and there's nothing wrong with that. If I were the LW, I'd be pretty tempted to dump the friends who keep insisting he should suffer more. To me, his attitude -- remembering the good stuff -- seems very healthy. I'd much rather my family and friends did that when I die instead of wailing and punching walls.

I have a question about grief, one in which I might get some opinions here.

Recently, I invited a co-worker and her significant other over to swim in our pool on a Sunday evening after his mother had been killed in a car accident that past Thursday. I thought it might be a good distraction, a needed distraction. I had never met him before, but her and I have become good friends at work, and had wanted to hang out but the opportunity had never happened.

We were having a good time. Until she needed to use the restroom and my husband escorted her in, to show her its location. As my husband and she went inside, he proceeded to lunge at me and successfully groped me. Needless to say, I made it very clear how inappropriate this was.

I really don't want to hang out with them as a couple any more. I've had the uncomfortable conversation with my friend. I told her I was willing to hang out with her, but he really wasn't welcome. She understands completely, and it really isn't an issue between the two of us.

But I have to question my judgement. Am I being unreasonable? Could grief have put him in a place that would make him behave that inappropriately within less than an hour of meeting someone new?

Well, Cat, I don't think he did that because his mom died, I think he did it because he's an asshole.

"But I have to question my judgement. Am I being unreasonable?"

I don't think you are.

"Could grief have put him in a place that would make him behave that inappropriately within less than an hour of meeting someone new?"

Sounds to me more likely he's just an obnoxious horny chancer. Maybe misread some signals (e.g. confused displays of sympathy with a come-on), or maybe hoped he could play a sympathy card with you i.e. that you might be less willing to reject him under his circumstances of grief. I'm no expert on grief but my money says he probably generally behaves like that.