Dinner And A Second Mortgage?
I know you've discussed how the guy should pay on the first few dates. I've been dating a pretty fabulous woman for a month, and I'm dipping into my savings to take her out to the sort of restaurants she's used to. I earn a decent living in a creative field, but she is in finance and clearly makes far more money than I do. I may have complicated things when, on our third date, she wanted to pick up the check and I wouldn't let her. Is there a smooth way to let her know that I now need her to throw down some dough?
--Can We Say Awkward?
The organ that gets used on the third date isn't supposed to be the kidney you sold on the black market to pay for dinner.
It's nice to take a woman out for a special meal from time to time, but the guy who can keep up the weekly wining and dining at restaurants where even the cockroaches speak passable French isn't the guy you are -- and probably isn't the guy she expects you to be. Women do look for a man to be ambitious and show potential. But typically, a woman who wants a rich guy not only has calculated her date's net worth (probably pretty successfully) long before the first date but has also trained herself to identify a fake Rolex at 50 paces and read even the subtlest signs about a man's income like fiscal tea leaves. So, this woman is probably well aware that if you're "managing a hedge fund," it's just a little money you're putting aside to replace the dead plants on your balcony.
Also, unless a man's a spy, a woman doesn't like him to pretend to be somebody he's not. This isn't to say you should have some awkward conversation with this woman about how you really do need her to pay for dinner -- or hope she gets the idea when she sees you standing by the on-ramp with a cardboard sign, "Spare $264.50, plus tip?" Instead, just take her to places you can pay for painlessly and wait until you're in a relationship to talk about money. Though women evolved to look for potential partners to show generosity, you can do that in a symbolic way, simply by treating her to something more affordable -- maybe a ticket to a museum and fancy ice cream afterward -- and by showing generosity of spirit: fairness, kindness, and willingness to do the right thing even when it's hard. A woman who really likes you will really like you when you're treating her to the shoe rental at a bowling alley. Plus, you'll be more fun when you aren't worrying about money, and she'll be more relaxed when she isn't worrying that you'll have to file for bankruptcy if she adds shrimp to her Caesar salad.








Sheesh. Who says a date always has to be dinner? It's fine to splurge every now and then, but there is no way a woman will expect a several hundred dollar date every time you go out. Have her over to your place and cook something for her. That's cheap and always goes over well. Go hiking together. That's free. If necessary, develop a personality that will hold her attention without having to make it rain all the time.
whistleDick at February 18, 2014 3:38 PM
Ya gotta mix it up.
Exotic cuisine one week, a surprise stop for a dog and a beer and mini-golf the next.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at February 18, 2014 7:20 PM
The dating gurus get a lot of abuse, but this guy needs to follow some of their lessons. David D says it right up front: "Stop buying dinners for strangers!"
The whole reason to splurge on dates is lost nowadays: It's not about buying a woman's attention and affection, and it's not about trying to impress her. Instead, high-ticket dates are what a man offers as a REWARD for what she brings into his life. Any woman who expects high ticket dates from the start is a gold digger and the man who caters to her is a typical Nice Guy loser.
jefe at February 18, 2014 8:15 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2014/02/dinner-and-a-se.html#comment-4268771">comment from jefeAbout this silliness about taking a woman on "high-ticket dates":
the man who caters to her is a typical Nice Guy loser.
Wrong. This man is my boyfriend. We met at the Apple Computer store and had soda at the adjacent indoor Farmer's Market shortly afterward. Then he went away for a week, we talked on the phone while he was away, and then he wanted to take me out to a lovely and romantic place. Not because he's a loser, but because he's a generous guy who earns a living and thought that would be nice. We ended up, ahem, never leaving my house. (And P.S. I know that's a risky tactic but I also didn't care enough to mend my randy ways.)
He's taken me to plenty of nice places but, frankly, I'm the frugal one in the relationship -- frugal when we're talking about his money.
Amy Alkon
at February 18, 2014 9:12 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2014/02/dinner-and-a-se.html#comment-4268774">comment from Amy AlkonIf you see things through a prism of "Women are all golddiggers!" (and generally feeling abused and like women are out to get you), it's best that you not give advice or make pronouncements about what is in dating, because you're seeing it through a distorted lens.
Sure, there are people who will take advantage of others -- but if you are not seeing it through your own wounds you can better discern who's who.
Amy Alkon
at February 18, 2014 9:14 PM
I take out my female friends to fancy dinners or buy them things they don't buy for themselves (because they can't afford it, or it's not on their radar ).
I'm a girl am I surrounded by gold diggers? They don't buy me things, or take me to fancy dinners.
But I dont think in those terms. I just do it because its me. And I don't do it for every female friend either. I just do it for the ones I feel like doing it for.
It's as simple as that.
Ppen at February 18, 2014 9:26 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2014/02/dinner-and-a-se.html#comment-4268824">comment from PpenI'm with you, Ppen. I'm not flush right now but if I were, I'd do the same. I have amazing people in my life and I love to buy and do nice things for them.
If I had real money, I'd build a house with two guest houses so my sister and her husband could come stay for a while and so friends could come and stay in the other -- and for extended periods but without us all getting in each other's hair like we would if we shared the same living quarters. Free housing at my place in LA would mean people I care about could visit -- from New York, from Europe, and have a place to stay.
My dear late friend Claudia gave me things all the time. She'd get something at a journalist junket or see something hot pink that she thought I'd like and buy it for me. I loved that, and when she hosted a film festival I forced this beautiful shawl I had on her -- had her borrow it for months -- because I thought she'd look even more glamourous and beautiful in it. It's just what you do when you care about somebody.
Amy Alkon
at February 18, 2014 10:04 PM
I would do it for my male friends but since they are mostly Mexican guys its like asking them if I want to stab them.
I once reached for the bill (after having a bunch of drinks with a guy from my shop who was making minimum wage) I swear it was the biggest insult-like telling him he had ugly clothes or something.
Ppen at February 19, 2014 12:01 AM
I suspect LW should probably relax a little. As Miss Alkon and others have pointed out, she probably knows you're not terribly rich, but since you've been dating for a month or so, she's probably okay with that. Also, she may actually be a little uncomfortable with you paying all the time -- she did try to pick up that check, after all. So, yeah, dial back on the fancy dates a bit. Sometimes, the simple, inexpensive outings are more memorable anyway.
Old RPM Daddy (OldRPMDaddy at GMail dot com) at February 19, 2014 6:27 AM
Yeah... If you're digging into savings to pay for dates after only a month, you're spending way too much. You're in a "creative" field, so be creative. Try day-dates (outdoor stuff or museums), happy-hour dates, and more "ethnic" foods for dinners. The fact that she's "used" to a certain type of restaurant doesn't mean that's what she wants to eat all time.
And Amy's right... if she's a gold digger, she already knows you don't have what she's after.
ahw at February 19, 2014 7:33 AM
Instead, just take her to places you can pay for painlessly ...
Bingo. It's the simplest fix. She may have thought you were insulted that she offered to pay and is hesitant to do so again.
So suggest a place you can afford. She can then either say, "Sure!" Or, "I'd prefer [expensive place]. But it's my treat!"
... If she says "I'd prefer [expensive place]" but doesn't offer to pay, then you know you've got a problem.
sofar at February 19, 2014 7:55 AM
I learned the hard way (after my divorce from the slut who cheated on me while I was in Afghanistan) that expensive dinners should be reserved for women who are actually worth it. And if you haven't slept with her, definitely don't buy her an expensive dinner. I did that a couple of times before I came to my senses.
The women I actually ended up dating for more than a couple of weeks? They started with (a) a quick coffee date when I was bedraggled after a weekend at a shooting range, (b) chips, guacamole and two sangrias at a trendy local bar, (c) a couple of stouts in a brewpub.
Not saying (all) women are gold diggers, but there's really no point in investing heavily in some chick you've only known a month. Especially if you're not having sex with her, or if the sex is lame. I'm all for being generous with people I like, but wining and dining a woman you're not serious about sends the wrong message. Namely, that she's the prize, rather than vice-versa.
MikeInRealLife at February 19, 2014 9:08 AM
Am I the only person who is really creeped out by the idea of a nice dinner serving as a reward for being a good girlfriend?
Yes, the secret to success in relationships, controlling the other person through a system of rewards. This begs the question of what punishments are for being a "bad" girlfriend.
What does she have to do to get jewelry, learn to fetch a ball for you? Roll over and shake paws for a nice birthday present?
LadyJ at February 19, 2014 9:28 AM
Here's the thing. You should go and do what you want to do and, if you want company, then make it a date. Think less of the "date" and more of the fun activity that you're interested in doing with or without her.
I went and saw B.B. King play last night. It was a bit pricey, but I'd have gone whether or not I had a date. I figured It'd be nice to have some company so I went through the roster and figured, "Hey, she'd be fun to do this with and she'd really enjoy it."
It was a great date. I heard some great music. I had fun. I got some pussy.
I wasn't trying to impress anybody. Keep that attitude.
whistleDick at February 19, 2014 10:17 AM
LadyJ, is that any different from when a women rewards her boyfriend or husband with sex for being a "good man"?
MIOnline at February 19, 2014 2:04 PM
I mean "woman". *typo*
MIOnline at February 19, 2014 2:09 PM
Good going, Mr. Male Ego. If she wants to pick up the tab, let her. As Amy points out, she probably already knows you're not rolling in dough, and she still enjoys your company.
Patrick at February 19, 2014 5:11 PM
Amy-- See, you've ALREADY earned every bit of Greg's admiration! That's a lot different from men who walk into a minefield by trying to impress ladies they barely know. Mikeinreallife is just saying the same thing I did, in different words.
My sweetie just spent the holiday weekend with me, housecleaned, even, and we didn't have sex. I said nothing. I'll still take her on the Gold Country camping trip she's been begging me for, but she's no gold-digger.
jefe at February 19, 2014 8:02 PM
Amy Alkon
https://www.advicegoddess.com/ag-column-archives/2014/02/dinner-and-a-se.html#comment-4271446">comment from jefeYour comment really doesn't make sense to me, Jefe. (Don't really see your point.)
Gregg wanted to take me out to dinner because he wanted to do something nice for me, not because he was trying to buy me.
We don't go out to dinner much now because I think it's too expensive. We just go on special occasions. He mostly cooks for me, which I love. And I was horrified the time I wanted to go to In-N-Out but I was all dressed up (I'm always all dressed-up…I wear evening dress skirts as daywear) and he took me to a pricey restaurant and our expensive steak was bad. I still feel ripped off by that place. (In-N-Out Burger is fantastic and would have been better.)
Amy Alkon
at February 20, 2014 5:48 AM
"I'm a girl am I surrounded by gold diggers? They don't buy me things, or take me to fancy dinners."
As a guy I don't take my friends out to dinner. Instead we play poker and I usually lose at the end. $20-$40 is a lot to some of them but not to me. I also can't stay up as late as them, so it is a graceful way to leave the game.
For most of them this is no big deal. But one guy has a strong greedy communist outlook. As the wealthier party he thinks it is my obligation to pay for everything. After he got crass enough I've cut him off and don't really socialize with him anymore.
So yes Ppen, you can have gold diggers without a date. Not saying you do. Just that they exist.
Ben at February 20, 2014 6:01 AM
I'm old fashioned enough to think that the man needs to pay for the first date (and don't forget to tip. If you can't afford to tip well you can't afford to eat out). After that you can take turns or whatever. If she picks up a check, remember to thank her sincerely.
My girlfriend makes a LOT more money than I do, so she often offers to pay for dinner. I usually accept but offer to pay the tip (in cash, of course) or something.
Give her as much as you can, and if that's not enough for her, run the other way.
sexandweed at February 20, 2014 6:58 AM
I have a boyfriend who insists on paying for everything when we go out. It's just who he is. I don't offer to pay because he doesn't want me to. So, to not feel like I am taking advantage of him, I cook him dinner fairly regularly, I pay attention to little things he likes and will get them for him. I also spoil his dog with treats and random toys. I think it shows that I appreciate his chivalrous nature and I recognize that he does go out of his way to show me a good time. When we spend the evening in, I will bring some wine or some beer over and sometimes have a surprise dinner delivered - paid for ahead of time so he can't pick up the tab.
Marlowe at February 21, 2014 4:01 PM
I think dates are dates and if you are doing the asking, you should do the paying.
If a woman offered to pick up the check and you didnt let her and now want her to, I think you may have set a precedent with her and she may now not want to hurt your ego by offering again. You will sound like a cad asking her to.
My advice would be to take this person on dates that you can afford but mostly that afford you to get to know each other.
If she went out with you, I am sure you already is aware when you didnt pull up in the Ferrari that you arent a rockefeller. She probably was hoping for someone real, that is adult enough to take care of their own needs and smart enough to listen to hers.
Once that happens then it's a relationship and most women I know like this woman, who would agree to 3 dates with a guy who she is pretty sure not making what she does but offered to pay. She is probably a caring person who will more than spoil you with affection and will pay for things with out batting an eye.
Wanda at February 27, 2014 1:58 PM
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