This letter is missing important information. Namely, what is the boyfriend doing that would warrant an apology? If he said or did something he wasn't aware was going to hurt her, I can see his point. But if he did something like damage her car or bought tampons instead of pads, then yeah, he would really need to be sorry.

Fayd has a good point. I have seen innocent comments taken in an entirely different context than they were given and cause hurt.

Maybe somebody says, "Wow! You look so young in that new makeup!" and it's meant as a compliment, but the recipient heard that they normally look old or something. If the person who is hurt says, "You're calling me old," I can see the compliment-giver being caught off guard, upset at the accusation, and more sorry for the offense than for what was said. After all, should anyone be sorry they offered a sincere compliment?

"I'm sorry you feel that way" isn't even an apology, it's closer to a sociopathic response. That said, it's important to know WHAT has the lady riled up... what many men discover is that apologies make us look weak, and her demanding one is more about demanding submission, not regrets. The longer he goes before submitting to this extortion, the better. Eventually SHE will apologize instead, for making such a big issue out of virtually nothing.

Oh mercy me, Jefe, methinks your toes were stepped on a little bit there. Ahem. I think we have assumed much here, but maybe we take the letter on its face value, that the boy has done something to apologize for. And she's getting a sociopathic response that is making her angrier instead of appeasing her, and she's trying to figure out why that is. Because it's a bad, bad apology. I'm sorry ------ with nothing after it; no but ..., no that you feel that way. Nothing else at all. That's all that is necessary.

Sweet title!

This statement of his seems to be the most appropriate: "Well, I'm not sorry for my actions. I just don't want to hurt you, so I'm sorry I hurt your feelings."

What do you say to someone when you might regret upsetting them, but do not regret your actions?

This statement of his seems to be the most appropriate: "Well, I'm not sorry for my actions. I just don't want to hurt you, so I'm sorry I hurt your feelings."

What do you say to someone when you might regret upsetting them, but do not regret your actions?

Posted by: Patrick at February 17, 2016 4:38 AM

Yes. Doing or saying something that was perceived as offensive by the listener, but not by you when you did it, or said it, doesn't require a sincere apology. And shouldnt get one.

Buck up buttercup. The world does not revolve around your hyper sensitized feels. If you are constantly enraged and in need of an apology you just might be a cluster b drama queen.

Sounds like the boyfriend might be a slightly unperceptive guy who genuinely likes this woman. Does he generally treat you well? Cut him some slack.
If you cant do that, leave. He isnt going to change, and you will be bitching about this to your lawyer in divorce court eight years from now.

It sounds like the boyfriend has communicated accurately. She is demanding an apology and he sees no reason to give one, so he offered a non-apology instead.

She has to decide if the actual offense was bad enough she needs to move on.

What do you say to someone when you might regret upsetting them, but do not regret your actions?

If it happens constantly, you say, "We're probably not compatible. We should break up."

Granted, the LW could say this, too.

Amy has it right: "I'm sorry you feel that way" is the speech of sociopaths. It's an apologia: something that is meant to sound like an apology, but doesn't actually express contrition, and carries the implied statement that in the same circumstances, the person making the apologia will do the same thing again. It also insinuates that the recipient of the apologia is behaving irrationally, or is mentally deficient or hyper-sensitive. In this way, it's a sneaky put-down.

Now, sometimes ordinary, non-sociopathic people will offer up apologias when they are confronted with someone who really is behaving in a hyper-sensitive manner, and demanding apologies for what would normally not be considered harmful statements or actions. In this scenario, the person demanding the apology might be the sociopath, putting on pretend hurts in order to manipulate the emotions of others. Such people should be told off flat to their faces, but the target might offer an apologia instead if it's a public situation where telling off the apology-demander would cause a scene (sociopaths are good at setting up such situations), or if they perceive the person demanding the apology to be threatening.

I'll do what I usually do in the advice area and, lacking any info to the contrary, take the LW's statement at face value. LW, go read the fist paragraph of what I wrote and see how it applies to your situation. Read the second one too, just in case you run into that situation in the future.

I've had a few women in my life I've upset, invariably while telling me how upset they are they failed to EXPLAIN how I had upset them.

Can the LW articulate WHY she is upset?

How are you supposed to apologize to someone who wants an apology but wont/cant tell you what you did to wrong them?

"Buck up buttercup. The world does not revolve around your hyper sensitized feels."

THAT is exactly the proper response. You have to let them know you do NOT give two shits about their feelings, because if you can't verbally or emotionally abuse your lover, who can you abuse?

Seriously, anyone who won't eat whatever shit you dish out shouldn't be in your life. Surround yourself with kowtowing losers - be a winner!

I have been in the situation where my wife ignored my opinion and got exceptionally upset/emotionally when I had to "do something" and the something I did was follow my opinion.

No right or wrong decision, just that I had to make a decision and I went with my original thought. Time had not made the situation different/better and I was more comfortable w/my opinion than hers.

I expected the fallout, accepted the fallout, basically said the same thing ("Sorry I did not mean to hurt your feelings but ...") and then SHUT UP!

The offended party (my wife in this case) has to have time to vent and vent and vent since life is typically a compromise and yet sometimes it is not (as in "You did not do what I want!").

That can be a shock and cause someone to feel like they drove straight into a telephone pole (you know the ones w/the electric wires on them).

"is exactly the proper response. You have to let them know you do NOT give two shits about their feelings, because if you can't verbally or emotionally abuse your lover, who can you abuse?"

I got over exepecting the world to refexively apologize to me over my hurt feelings some time in my late teens.

You?

If a loved one is gas lighting you, that is a different story, but men are not women and just because his thoughts and wishes are not identical to yours, it doesnt require an apology on his part.

Bob in Texas is correct here.

'Amy has it right: "I'm sorry you feel that way" is the speech of sociopaths. It's an apologia: something that is meant to sound like an apology, but doesn't actually express contrition'

My other fav is 'I stand corrected' as a non-admission of wrongdoing.

The point is whether there is any (sincere) intent to not wrong the other party in that way again.

That is the second half of an apology. The first half is recognizing that one's behavior crossed a line in some way. This is how worthwhile sentient beings behave.

LW's BF refuses to do the second half. Ever. That's pretty damned scary all by itself. If he *never* owns up to hurtful behavior either, that just cranks the creepiness up from ten to eleven.

The BF sounds profoundly cold-hearted. I'd say bring him back to the reptile house you found him in, but that's unfair to reptiles.

"LW's BF refuses to do the second half. Ever. That's pretty damned scary all by itself. If he *never* owns up to hurtful behavior either, that just cranks the creepiness up from ten to eleven."

Amazing that you can read all this into a short paragraph, unless you are the LW.

I want to hear examples of what the guy does, and then refuses to apologize for. Without that I dont know who has the problem here.

The nature of the perceived offense matters. Did he sleep with her sister or load the dishwasher in a manner differing with her preference?

I find it odd people are calling this creepy or sociopathic with barely one side of the story. As she notes, when confronted he is quite clear he has no intention to change his actions. There is no attempt at lying. He is merely unhappy that she is unhappy. That is it.

If she is unhappy being chained in a basement all night, then yes he is a sociopath. But as Jeff notes if she is unhappy with how he loads the dishwasher or perhaps what he cooked for dinner then she is an emotional basket case. There may be no need for an apology.

End of the day she decides just as much as he does if they stay together. She clearly isn't going to change him. If this isn't something she can live with then she needs to move on.

The first half is recognizing that one's behavior crossed a line in some way. This is how worthwhile sentient beings behave.

I piss people off all the time, less than 5% ever articulate WHY what I said pissed them off.

If you are unable to explain why you are upset you dont deserve an apology.

lujlp says:

"If you are unable to explain why you are upset you dont deserve an apology."

I do not know how literally I should take this particular comment, but for the sake of this conversation I will simply take the plain meaning of what you have said.

The most plain interpretation of your words leads to a pretty antisocial dynamic.

There are numerous situations where it is completely appropriate to apologize even when the person deserving the apology has no ability to explain why they are upset.

This is particularly true when dealing with children who may lack the emotional awareness to identify exactly what is bothering them.

Regardless of what is explained, when an adult recognizes they have wronged someone they owe them an apology... regardless of whether or not the wronged party has explained anything to them to justify the apology.

While it is entirely possible you "get" this concept, the fact that you also said this:

"I piss people off all the time, less than 5% ever articulate WHY what I said pissed them off."

Suggests that you may suffer from a certain lack of self awareness as to how your actions and statements affect others... and then you just brush it off as their responsibility to explain it to you and if they are unable it is all on them.

That would be fine is your hit rate was a bit better than 5%.

I'd say that that my own hit rate is greater than 95% in knowing how my actions and statements are likely to be perceived by others.

For example I fully anticipate that if you read this you will probably be irritated with me for it... but that is ok, and I am not sorry if that happens to be the case because a 5% rate of understanding why you are pissing people off all around you is pretty poor and you should be doing way better than that.

Ironically I would perceive your statement much differently if you said that you piss people off all the time and that you knew WHY what you said pissed them off, but that it was due to you being brutally honest and telling them things they didn't necessarily want to hear.

At least then it would suggest a certain level of self awareness than the 5% figure lacks.

"I find it odd people are calling this creepy or sociopathic with barely one side of the story. "

As a rule, unless there is something obvious in the LW's letter indicating that they have been a bad actor (as in the other letter posted this week), I assume that the LW is playing it straight, and I comment from that perspective.

"Regardless of what is explained, when an adult recognizes they have wronged someone they owe them an apology... regardless of whether or not the wronged party has explained anything to them to justify the apology."

In this case the second party does not recognize they have wronged anyone as the first party clearly stated.

"There are numerous situations where it is completely appropriate to apologize even when the person deserving the apology has no ability to explain why they are upset.

This is particularly true when dealing with children who may lack the emotional awareness to identify exactly what is bothering them."

And now you are calling her a child or mentally incompetent?

Cousin Dave,

I think it's a generational difference. I'm used to people like from the U of Minnesota vid. They yell. They scream. It really doesn't mean anything other than that they want stuff. I've certainly seen the non-apology too. Heck, I've even used it with my sister when she had no right to be offended and didn't deserve and apology. So for me there isn't enough information to come to any decision.

Artemis you've upset and I demand an apology.

But I wont tell you what you did or why it upset me.

Now when you apologize, dont just apologize for upsetting me, apologize for what you did to upset me, even though you have no idea what that is, and asking me what it was will just upset me further.
/sarc

FYI I know exactly WHY I've pissed them off. I failed to limit myself to their delusional world view and they cant process the fact that the reality I've exposed them to doesnt agree with their preconceived notions.

And rather than making the effort to live their life in such a way that disagreement with their asinine ideas/ideals does not mean criticizing them as a person, they'd rather get pissed at whomever dared to disagree with them

lujlp,
Does this stuff happen to you only during an election cycle or during gun control "discussions"?

(I personally like trapping a person into admitting that they are only comfortable with having the "murderous pig of a policeman" be the one that has the only gun.)

Does this stuff happen to you only during an election cycle or during gun control "discussions"?

Not really. Though it does go up.

Best example I could give is a guy I got along with great on facebook til a discussion on rape where he wound up getting so upset with the notion that I was advocating (that sex had something to do with it) that he somehow managed to write that sex has nothing to do with reproduction, and that even if there was a possibility of reducing rape by exploring that notion he didnt care as such an idea was not socially acceptable.

Second best example I could give is my aunt who blocked me on facebook several years ago and hasnt talked to me since when I pointed out the flaws in her feminist based theories on life like how the wage gap being a statistical manipulation, or how women actually commit the majority of domestic violence and crimes against children

lujlp,
Yeah FB 'friends' do come and go w/the tides of PC discussion. (It's all good until you point out the silliness of their "logic".)

"... sex has nothing to do with reproduction,..."
That's funny.

I got unfriended by 3 out of 4 members of a family for arguing about the TSA because the oldest daughter was dating a TSA employee (she's now married to him).

I wasn't invited to the wedding either.

lujlp Says:

"FYI I know exactly WHY I've pissed them off."

Great, then why all this beating around the bush with this nonsense:

"I piss people off all the time, less than 5% ever articulate WHY what I said pissed them off.

If you are unable to explain why you are upset you dont deserve an apology."

Presumably even if they *could* explain why they were upset with you, you wouldn't deem them as deserving of an apology anyway.

The fact that they are unable to explain to you why they are upset is essentially irrelevant from the perspective of them deserving an apology.

You know why you have upset them and you have done so with a purpose that you are not ashamed of and that you were fully aware of at the time.

If I told someone something on purpose that I knew would upset them and that I am not actually sorry for after the fact... why would them explaining why they were upset result on a genuine apology?

My point is that you have set up a nonsense argument in your first statement given what you have now said.

In your estimation those people aren't deserving of an apology whether they can explain to you why they are upset or not, so why setup this silly test when even if they were to pass an apology would not be forthcoming?

lujlp,

Just to clarify. I do not believe anyone owes anyone else an apology for merely presenting an argument the other person doesn't like.

I make all manner of arguments here that I know in advance will upset who I am talking to and I am not sorry for doing so.

My only point is that even if they were to explain to me why they were upset with what I said, I still would not feel they *deserved* an apology simply because I told them something that disagreed with their strongly held beliefs.

Critical thought requires that our beliefs be challenged from time to time... there is nothing to be sorry for when engaging in spirited conversation.