I'm questioning the purpose of a "relationship coach." Does this person tell a woman what she needs to do to turn her boyfriend into a husband? Now, I could see this advice working on a guy who has a hard time getting girlfriends. But if you're affluent enough to afford a coach, that means your boyfriend is probably affluent enough to find somebody else to date. And if she ever came at me with, "My relationship coach said...," I would be so out of there.

Ditto that point about 'nothing'! Too often, nothing is what she has to offer in exchange for all the goodies she expects from him. Women need to learn a little more about bargaining in this regard. It's also why prenups are important: think of a roommate agreement: "This is how we will make our marriage plan something like a business plan."
It doesn't need to be purely an exit plan.

"Ive spent hundreds of dollars on a relationship coach"

Super Bowl tickets might have gotten you further. :-)

Good grief. This relationship coach is in the wrong line of work. That's the sort of advice I'd give if she asked me, "How do I get my boyfriend to break up with me? I want to end it, but I want him to do it."

To me one of the problems I see with this is: " Men supposedly don't get hints. "
If you two are anywhere close to marriage level, she should be able differentiate him from All men do X. She should have known it wouldn't have worked with him.

Also since I read the other column first I feel this was a perfect place to use the non-apology/apology.
"I feel bad that you don't seem to want to marry me"
"I'm sorry you feel that way. "

This is another in a spate of female advice-seekers that I've seen lately who seem to have completely missed that men are human beings too:
"I treated my husband/boyfriend like shit, and now he doesn't love me! What's wrong with him???" I don't know if this is a result of post-modern feminism reaching down to young girls, or simply part of the overall social breakdown, but I've noticed among a lot of young woman the attitude that the only thing that matters in a relationship is what she wants, and what her partner wants is not a consideration: his job is to play a role in her life and be quiet about it. LW's boyfriend was smart; he realized "if she treats me this way now, how will she treat me after we're married and she feels secure in the relationship?"

LW, you blew it. It's over. Life doesn't always come with do-overs; some choices are irreversible, and this is one. Go on with your life and let him be. Hopefully you have learned a lesson. Next time you want to try a stunt like this, consider how you'd feel if your partner did it to you.

What Cousin Dave said.

"I feel bad that you don't seem to want to marry me, and I can't continue in this much longer."

This sounds a lot like what someone very wise once told me. Instead of saying to someone, "Do this!!" say, "*I* am going to do XYZ" and see how they react.

In this case, LW could say, "Being married is a life goal of mine, so if we're not engaged by a year from now, I'm going to move on. Today's date is Feb. 17." Then, he can propose or not, and and she can leave if he doesn't. Yeah, it's hard to leave someone you love, but if marriage really is the end goal, you're wasting your time with someone who isn't ready.

My standard response to people suffering the fallout of their own stupidity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CVvNRQcvE

On a serious note; what, exactly, is so great about you that he should marry you?

Love is a biochemical process, so thats not really all that special.

70% of divorce is initiated by women, so whats the upside to marriage for a man?

Hell as a single guy you have more rights in regards to your kids than a divorced guy.

Quite frankly ANY long term relationship is becoming fraught with peril given the number of guys forced to pay alimony to women they never even married.

Why is it women like you dont give a shit about the emotional needs of the man in your life?

I notice your letter made no mention of a discussion with him where you allowed him the time and space to verbalize his needs, wants, and fears.

You cut him out of your life for failing to do as you demand, why the hell should such behavior be rewarded?

"Being married is a life goal of mine, so if we're not engaged by a year from now, I'm going to move on. "

Exactly. If a goal that's very important to you doesn't align with a partner's goals, you have to say, "I'm sorry, I love you, but this isn't the right relationship for me." When I was a senior in college, there was a gal that I had been dating for about six months. We were getting along pretty well and were thinking about getting serious, which was going to involve her having to do something moderately drastic. About three months before graduation, I got a very good job offer from a place in Florida. Having to tell her was one of the saddest things I've ever done. I was hoping that she would consider moving with me, but she said no, she still loved me but that wasn't in her plans. We broke up that night. I still have fond memories of her and I hope she found a good guy that she could stay with. But turning down that job was not an option.

But doing something like that involves having to put on your big boy or girl pants (which both of us had to do that night). Much easier to drive the partner away, so you can then blame everything on them.

Doing something like that involves having to put on your big boy or girl pants (which both of us had to do that night).

I think a lot of people operate under the misconception that doing the right thing should feel easy, when, in fact, it's often terribly hard. Also -- kudos for having the maturity to do what you both did at such a young age. My ex and I stayed in town for each other after college and made each other miserable for three years before figuring it out.

Lesson learned. Eggs still viable though, right?

Then get out there, girl! You KNOW you're nobody until you're married. So find that malleable man to marry and despise tout de suite!

Yikes.

"I've spent hundreds of dollars on a relationship coach, who instructed me to cut off all sex and even all contact with the guy I was dating ..."

Why does she need a relationship coach when she is in one? What's the coach's purpose? (Maybe to break up her "relationship" so he/she can replace the guy?)

Also (1), lujlp nailed it. No mention of what intent the guy had (other than knowing "he loved me and wanted to marry me"). Did he have a plan or no plan but LW just "knew"?

Also (2), a good friend waited on a guy for several years and when he backed out she moved on.

She stopped seeing him and bought a house she liked. Upon seeing the house the guy said (seriously) "You bought a house w/o involving me?"

Her reply "Since you are no longer my fiance why would I involve you?"

They've been married 15 years now.

My roommate, who thought the coach's advice was terrible, just moved in with her guy, despite his being kind of a commitmentphobe. Her approach was to just be loving and patient with him and give it some time (about a year).

I'm curious about something. What about this arrangement would make the "commitmentphobe" want to marry her?

He's got a girlfriend who's living with him, being "loving and patient," so it sounds like he's already getting what he wants. So, why change anything?

Hence the classic line, "I want to marry. I just don't want to marry you."

I've spent hundreds of dollars on a relationship coach, who instructed me to cut off all sex and even all contact with the guy I was dating until he agreed to marry me. I knew he loved me and wanted to marry me; I just wanted him to do it faster. Sadly, my ultimatum to him blew up in my face; he is done with me.

Sweet deal for the relationship coach. He/she makes hundreds of dollars regardless of how acting on the advice turns out.

I'm not so sure the coach did the wrong thing. The LW wanted to marry NOW. The guy very clearly had no intention. The coach saw that the LW was not going to listen to any reason. So he solved the problem for both parties involved. You may want a coach in a relationship for the same reason a championship team needs a coach. If you're the guy with the ball everyone is trying to kill you can't focus effectively on the big picture.

Sounds like most of the people here would have given here the same advice: move on. Her dating coach made it happen. He did so in such a way that there was no back peddling or comfortable hiding. You want X and this situation will not lead to X.

There's this idea that guys are anti-marriage and need to be tricked into it, but actually, it isn't really the case. If a guy is ready to get married and you look like a good prospect, you don't need to trick him into it.

If you're scared to have the conversation because you think it will scare him off, have it anyways. If he is scared off, he wasn't right. If he was just a space cadet, now he has a clue.

Patrick, you're right. LW might actually be better off than the friend, as she is back on the market and might meet someone who shares her goals. The friend might end up stuck in the relationship for years, missing opportunities.

"There's this idea that guys are anti-marriage and need to be tricked into it, but actually, it isn't really the case."

Right, it's only the smart ones who are anti-marriage.

Its not that guys are anti-marriage, they are

anti-getting-fucked-over-by-women/society/the-courts-and-being-made-to-adhere-to-their-side-of-the-marriage-contract-for-years-after-the-divorce-while-the-woman-can-be-quit-of-her-obligations

"... a lot of young woman the attitude that the only thing that matters in a relationship is what she wants, and what her partner wants is not a consideration: his job is to play a role in her life and be quiet about it."

You just described something like 60% (or more) of under 40 women in the US Cousin Dave. This is now normal. Which is why Lujlp reacts the way he does. Dee as well. It is a very sane response. 100 years ago you would call them cads. Today, they are just realists.

I know plenty of men who would prefer to be married. But they want a partnership, not long term slavery. In Houston it is easy to see those kinds of bad relationships. You just look for the houses with AC units on the garage. That is quite literally the only room in the house he gets. So why not make it comfortable. Unsurprisingly she will divorce him in a couple of years and then whine to everyone she can find that he didn't make their marriage work. It's practically a cliche these days.

As for why things have turned out this way? Feminism is part of it. But the self esteem movement is probably more responsible. Our schools are training narcissists. Then we are shocked that they only care for themselves. It's not that the men are any better. They just don't have the weight of law behind them.

In the end spoiled brats like the LW will have at most one kid. So after a few generations they will die off and be replaced by a more prolific culture. Those who espouse ZRIP get really angry when you point out they don't like their society since they don't want it to continue. But that is what happens whether they like it or not.

Cutting off sex sounds like a good way to destroy a relationship.

What did our foremothers do? It seems a lot of our ancestors had a better feel about REAL human nature instead of a lot of this new agey hypersensitive swill given out as 'advice' these days.

If Becky Thatcher had the sweaty pantaloons for Tom Sawyer, but Tom wasn't getting off the button, she would start to see Huck Finn as well.

Now TOM has some direct choices to make. He gets to ask HIMSELF questions. If asked, Becky would clearly state: "We are obviously in a non-exclusive relationship, so I am weighing my options."

Then let him take it from there.

Unilaterally changing the entire nature and dynamic of a relationship is fraught with danger. He used to have XXX relationship with his +1...and now he is asking Y XXX isn't there anymore.

So what she just told him is that 'anytime you don't do what I want, I will remove the major benefits you get from having me in your life."

Imagine having a power or cable company like that. LW just sent this guy screaming to her competitors.

As a counselor, I get used to the fact that there's almost always a big difference between "What I say" and "What you heard." In her situation, I might say, "Well, you certainly have a right to giving him an ultimatum, but you'll have to live with the consequences. What she might have heard is, "Give him an ultimatum, blah blah blah blah..."

This is astonishingly manipulative and one sided...
She went to a relationship coach, NOT together with her "guy I was dating", so that she could figure out how to make him "agree[d] to marry me."

Does this sound anything like somebody who is in love? Maybe "Love of Control" "I knew he loved me and wanted to marry me" If that was, in fact, the case... nothing needed to change. All she would have had to do is some of that dreaming talk about children and houses and such, to gauge his response.

Instead, he was treated to: "cut off all sex and even all contact with the guy"

Now he MIGHTA had a plan, about when he wanted to get married, or mighta been saving up for it.

But what he got was clear case #1 that anytime they had a disagreement, she'd cut him off, until she got her way.

DEAL. BREAKER.

Boya dodged a big 'ol bullet, because he was incidental to her plans.
"I wanna be married by the time I'm 25."
'Really? To who?'
This question is VERY important, because if the PERSON you wish to marry, is less important than BEING married, it will never work out.

LW needs to get her head straight about the idea that humans have their own individual ideas about what they want, and taking for granted that YOUR ideas are the only ones that matter, will cause nothing but strife.

But I've been told to my face by intelligent, educated women, that I don't really have feelings... and certainly what I want is less important. So experience is a harsh teacher.

When we trap prey, we intend to eat it, or at least control it. We don't care what the prey thinks or wants. For a rabbit, this is a fact. For a human, it's a crime.

*there is potential that Amy had to edit for length and clarity, and so some other meaning was lost... but I'm not betting on it.

SwissARmyD nailed it.

Little girls dream, fantasize, plan, and live for their "wedding".

Big girls worry about the type of man they are in love with.

Unfortunately there are sometimes marriages between the two.

Unless the relationship coach is of a strict religious bent (of the "no sex before marriage" variety), I find it hard to believe s/he would tell his/her client to give the boyfriend such an ultimatum. And even if religious convictions DID factor into it, suddenly cutting off sex on "religious grounds" after you'd presumably been having sex together already would be disingenuous at best.

I think it's a bit more likely the LW was chatting with this "coach" and heard something along the lines of, "If you really want this young man to marry you, and all else has failed, you may want to try an all-or-nothing approach. 'No sex until you put a ring on it,' for example." But I do not for a minute believe anyone in the business of making relationships work would say that an ultimatum is the way to go. It's bad for their bottom line if a relationship fails, and ultimatums aren't the most reliable method of success.