When Harry Bent Sally Over The Hood Of The Car
My girlfriend's "best friend" is a straight guy. I trust that she THINKS he's just her friend. However, as a guy, I know that if he could hit it, he would. FYI, I'm not really a jealous or insecure person, and my guy friends complain about this same scenario, so this can't just be my stuff.
--Annoyed
There's a saying, "A true friend accepts who you are and helps you become who you can be" -- for example, a person who's naked in her true friend's bed, feeling really guilty about cheating on her boyfriend.
Sorry to be less-than-reassuring, but you and your guy friends are right: For many men, the friend zone is a holding area where they wait to Mr. Sneaky back-massage their way into the sexfriend zone. In a study of 88 opposite-sex friendships by evolutionary psychologist April Bleske-Rechek, men were more attracted to their female friend than vice versa and more likely to assume she also had the hots for them -- a belief bearing little correspondence to how the woman actually felt. Women, on the other hand, tended to assume their male friend had only platonic intentions. And sure, some male friends are just looking out for their female friends -- but others do it in the way a hungry lion looks out for the limping gazelle.
Bleske-Rechek's findings align with research by evolutionary psychologists Martie Haselton and David Buss suggesting that we evolved to make protective mistakes in perception -- erring in favor of whatever assumption would be least costly to our mating and survival interests. Men tend to overestimate women's attraction to them because they lose more by missing a possible mating opportunity than by making asses of themselves hitting on a woman who isn't interested (and, in fact, would eat a live pigeon to avoid having sex with them). Women, however, tend to underestimate men's interest, because they have a lot to lose from believing a cad will stick around to be a dad.
You aren't without options here, though it's probably best to refrain from dusting off the old flintlock and challenging the guy to a duel at dawn. Showing jealousy suggests you have reason to feel threatened (like maybe he really is all that). Instead, simply be the better deal. Consistently show your girlfriend that you've got what women evolved to prioritize in men -- a willingness to invest time, energy, and resources -- like by really listening when she talks instead of uh-huhing her while blowing up alien invaders on your phone.
Do this stuff not because you're afraid of losing her (which stinks of desperation) but because you haven't forgotten that you love her. And as a show of how secure you are, maybe even encourage her to hang with him -- that is, whenever she's all "Golly, it's been months since I spent the better part of an hour at the mall trying to decide between two slightly different vanilla-scented candles."
You might call me naive, but I have male friends who are strictly platonic. Like, we have no chemistry whatsoever.
Plus, I know what their types are because I SEE who they hit on when we're out together and who they date. My dance partner exclusively goes for thick, chesty blondes (which I am not). My cooking partner goes exclusively for teeny, tiny brown girls that I could probably bench-press and tells me "white girls smell weird." I am willing to bet good money that, if I were to strip naked and hide in their beds, they'd cover me up and tell me to gtfo.
I do have some other male friends who I get the lying-in-wait vibe from. I can tell the difference.
Whatever the case, I agree with Amy. Boyfriend needs to be confident in his status as Boyfriend and not try to dictate her friendships. Insecurity is unattractive.
sofar at February 2, 2016 8:11 PM
They may be just friends now, but that could change at any time. I know a man and a woman who were platonic friends through her teens, twenties and into her early thirties. During that time he dated her sister and most of her girlfriends. Then they lost contact for 25 years, during which time he got married, and she got married, divorced and remarried. After they got back in touch, they were still platonic until, ten months later, they "looked at each other and just knew" (her words). That was three and a half years ago; they've been lovers ever since. He's still married, but her divorce (from me) will be final next month.
Rex Little at February 2, 2016 11:48 PM
My experience is the same sofar. I know who would bang me and who wouldn't. Past a certain age I think most women pick it up....and if you're an adult woman you ignore it and continue the friendship...or not.
Ouch...Rex
Ppen at February 3, 2016 1:22 AM
I know who would bang me and who wouldn't. Past a certain age I think most women pick it up....
Until...they don't.
Exactly how many women have had conversations with their friends where, in hushed tones over coffee, their companion had to admit 'it just happened' when someone 'unforeseeably' has a fidelity oops with someone they 'knew'?
The 'best friend' cliché is there for a reason.
FIDO at February 3, 2016 4:36 AM
This doesn't get addressed here, but there are women who have male friends and say stuff like, "Yeah, we could become romantically involved, but I don't want to risk the friendship." What they don't understand is that the male friend would GLADLY risk the friendship for that shot with her, even if it's only one time.
Fayd at February 3, 2016 7:16 AM
Exactly how many women have had conversations with their friends where, in hushed tones over coffee, their companion had to admit 'it just happened' when someone 'unforeseeably' has a fidelity oops with someone they 'knew'?
I may be reading your post wrong. But I don't think anyone's arguing that men and women (friends or not) will never find themselves unexpectedly screwing each other. But, for that to happen, there has to be some attraction.
And some male-female friendships have absolutely NO physical attraction. Some have one-sided physical attraction. And some have mutual (possibly denied) physical attraction. The latter two would lead to the "oops" moments you describe. But the former almost certainly wouldn't.
sofar at February 3, 2016 9:13 AM
"There has to be some attraction"
With most guys there doesn't. And secondly odds are there is some attraction from his side.
Joe j at February 3, 2016 3:56 PM
Also, some people are grown-ups. One of my dear friends is someone I "fake dated" (this was not deception on my part--he was going through a horrible breakup, severe depression, etc. and really was not up for dating but did want companionship.). We took dance classes, had dinners, even made out a couple of times, but he just couldn't shake his depression. And for me, the moment kind of passed.
A couple of years later, we're awesome buddies. Now that's he's over the depression, would he bang me? I'm sure he would if I was down. (We're both nonmonogamous, so I'm not like his only hope--he has a couple of girlfriends, I have a husband and a boyfriend, so there's maybe less angst than monogamous folks feel when they get super invested in a possible thing. Just a guess, in my 30+ years of dating, I've never been monogamous).
But anyway, fake-dating dude didn't work out as a sex thing. And guess what, he's not a dick about it. We still have coffee every so often, genuinely enjoy seeing each other when we do (less now that he's out of the worst of his depression and has one primary and one secondary girlfriend). Because he's an adult who can realize that friends are nice to have, not some horrible monster who put you in the "friend zone."
Actually, I have a similar one where I'm forced to be the adult. One of my best friends is someone I had a three-year relationship with a few years ago. I would bang him again in a heartbeat. But his wife, who's the reason the three-year thing ended is one of my best friends, and i respect her wishes because it would be a dick move not to. (she gave her permission at the beginning, but then felt like he and I were getting too close and asked us to knock it off), So, much as I'd love to jump on that pony, I don't. Because I'm an adult. And we go on ski trips, and hang out, and I gently rib him about how I miss the naked stuff, and then we move on and don't actually do anything he'd end up regretting. Why? All together now--BECAUSE WE'RE ADULTS.
/steps off soapbox
Anathema at February 4, 2016 6:49 AM
Rex, I'm so sorry that happened to you.
Patrick at February 4, 2016 7:25 AM
Fayd - I'm not sure.
I have a male friend who goes through women like tissue paper. (This is part of why we haven't dated.) At some point we discussed potentially being more than friends and we both pretty much agreed that it was better that we remained friends (and thus in each other's lives) than in a two week "relationship" that would implode.
I'm sure this is a weird scenario, but it does happen. (FWIW, he's not super my type or vice versa, which I think makes it easier. Not saying that we wouldn't have sex with each other - just that for neither of us does it seem to be desirable enough to risk a friendship over.)
Of course, he could just be an extraordinary liar...
Mahkara at February 4, 2016 10:20 AM
I really think that it's a matter of HOW:
1. much past Midnight it is,
2. much drinking as go on (not too much but enough), and
3. much comfort is needed by both at that moment.
Bob in Texas at February 4, 2016 11:21 AM
IMO, the whole "Platonic" notion was invented by women, to make dry, sexless relationships appear somehow 'noble' and 'pure'. My azz.
"I don't want to risk the friendship" means it's not really a friendship. More often, it's purely one-way: He gives, she takes. If he drops the pathetic Mr Nice Guy routine and actually ASKS for some kind of reciprocation, romantic or otherwise, he'll quickly see (when she kicks him out) that he's not losing out on anything.
jefe at February 4, 2016 6:38 PM
@sofar
I think the comment was mostly directed to that female attitude: "Oh...I know he wants me, but I have it ALL under control. I just keep this person who will relentlessly pursue me around for...reasons. Of course I'm not attracted to him, honey. It's strictly platonic."
And then, 6 months later, she's pathetically blubbering about how 'it just happened' when the situation was as unforeseeable as a co-ed going into a basement in a horror flick.
Here is the deal: He has seen this. He is uncomfortable. She will, most likely, give him a middle finger if he brings it up because 'she's a strong independent woman'.
In my opinion, the OP should open up his rolodex (dated much?) and find three hot 'friends' from his days gone by and start having lunch with them.
Because she thinks it's just dandy, so why shouldn't he?
What I think is missing from this is that this guy SHOULD have a line in the sand and be willing to ditch the girl if she goes crosses the line. Because, this girl, watching him NOT get upset when they play drunken Twister at a party, has to have her respect for him erode a little bit every time she pushes the line.
So this is a no win situation for him. And she put him there. Thanks!
FIDO at February 4, 2016 7:37 PM
One thing which should reassure the OP is that while most guys dwell in the friendzone waiting to leap on that gazelle, most of them were friendzoned for reasons, i.e. she is NOT attracted to him.
Most, but nowhere near all. So it is small comfort.
FIDO at February 4, 2016 7:42 PM
If a guy says "I don't want to risk the friendship" it probably means one of two things.
If he says it to the girl, it means "I don't want to hurt your feelings, but the amount of Viagra it would take for me to get it up for you would likely kill me."
If he says it to friends, or to himself, it means "I'm scared she'll reject me and I'll lose what little attention I get from her."
Rex Little at February 5, 2016 12:25 AM
Rather eat a live pigeon, lol? Perhaps we should start with some squab.
Jeff at February 6, 2016 6:27 AM
What's missing in this letter is what form the friendship takes. Are the two of them meeting for lunch dates and all of that?
If so, that's really inappropriate and the fact that this guy is writing in means that there is definitely something inappropriate going on.
Do I have female friends? Not a lot, but, yeah. I don't hang out with them without my girl. If I decide that it would be nice to invite so-and-so female friend over for dinner, I say to my girlfriend, "Hey, want to have so-and-so over for dinner? Cool. Shoot her a text." Even though my relationship with so-and-so predates my relationship with my girlfriend, I'll never text or call so-and-so directly.
That's not some rule that my girlfriend came up with. She never had a problem with that friendship because I've never given her a reason to have a problem with that friendship. I respect my girlfriend enough to want to avoid any possibility of some perception of anything untoward going on.
This poor guy writing this letter is embarrassed about this. Why would a considerate person want someone they love to be embarrassed? Even if you could beat them down later with, "oh stop it, you're over-reacting."
That's "being adult".
whistleDick at February 13, 2016 12:40 AM
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