Certainly there are plenty of men who don't like an ounce of makeup--but they are in the minority. I can't tell you how many men think I don't wear makeup. Bitch I'm a motherfucking Sephora VIP Rouge, I pack that shit on you better be DAMN sure.

What men don't know is there is "no makeup, makeup". Foundations that are water based so it doesn't look like you have foundation on. I wear them and even some women don't know I have makeup on. (MAC Face & Body, Makeup Forever Face and Body, and Chanel Vitalumiere Aqua being my favorites). There are lip stains, and eye washes, and darkening of lashes and feathering of eyebrows and all kinds of tricks to look like you're a natural gal. I do it---because I love makeup. I can't tell you how many women come up to me and tell me they love my makeup. It happens often and I enjoy it greatly. But to men I don't wear much or any makeup at all lmao.

Young American women just tend to be tacky with their makeup so men think that's what makeup looks like. Remember that Kim Kardashian craze? She copied drag queens! Now it's Kylie Jenner smh.

Anyways I was at Mitsuwa buying makeup the other day and this Asian guy came up to me and said "You don't need that stuff you're too beautiful". I then proceeded to spend $70 bucks on Asian makeup because YES I DO!!!! Dolly Parton is my ~~~spirit animal~~~.

All a matter of taste. I'm one of the minority who really prefers *no* makeup. It looks nice enough from a distance, if the woman doesn't overdo it. but I guess I'm a naturalist. Mainly, I don't like the feel that makeup gives a woman's skin.

Kissing lipstick, or even lip gloss is just gross.

I also dislike nylons (or stockings, or hosiery, or whatever you want to call them): natural skin, please, not plastic.

We also have an 'aversion' to waiting around for an hour and fifteen minutes on a Saturday morning before we can go out and get some bacon and eggs.

Sure, I understand the desire to primp for a big night out (or even everyday at the office) but honestly if you didn't look good enough to run out and grab a pumpkin spice latte first thing in the morning wearing nothing but jeans and the dress shirt I was wearing last night, then I wouldn't be fucking you.

Ppen, I for one appreciate you service.

You rock on! I have a hell of a lot more respect for a...heftier woman who pulls out all the stops than I do some daintier lass who puts ZERO effort out at all. I try to appreciate effort, and I despise those who make none.

I do not spend 6 hours a week in the gym and hundreds of dollars on clothes just to hook up with a girl in pajama bottoms, flip flops, a rat nest and no concealer.

Most men have no idea how much makeup a woman is wearing unless it's really obvious-like green eyeliner. They know what a slob vs. a well-put-together woman looks like but don't know how long it takes to actually look good. I'd wager that my husband, who I've been married to for over a decade, probably can't even tell you what my natural hair texture is. It's not something he thinks about, but he'd notice if I stopped fixing it.
Know what women who don't spend time on their appearance look like? Lena Dunham.

I also dislike nylons (or stockings, or hosiery, or whatever you want to call them)

Wait... hold up. What women in your life are STILL WEARING NYLONS? Are you hanging out with my mom?

I can't tell you how many men think I don't wear makeup.

I LOVE how men really just do not get how much work the "low-maintenance girl nextdoor" look requires. And I also LOVE how they think they've just paid you a compliment when they tell you that you "look naturally beautiful, unlike all the other women who wear too much make-up." Dude, I am wearing primer. I filled in my brows with a pencil that cost $30. I am wearing expensive tubing mascara. I spent 90 minutes experimenting with foundation at Sephora. I used nude gel liner on my bottom lash line because it's allergy season, and that shit is puffy and red. And let's not even get started on how much product and styling went into my hair before I put it in this "low-maintenance" ponytail.

I spend a fortune at Sephora as well. Make Up Forever and Laura Mercier are some of my faves. You know, make up so I don't look "made up."

I hired a make-up artist to do my daughter's make up for her wedding, and she did mine as well. She did a fabulous job on my daughter. I guess mine was a shock for those that really know me because I never "wear that much make up." I do, it's just usually understated.

@Ppen...Totally off-topic - I've seen you mention Mitsuwa a couple of times lately. Do you go to the one in Costa Mesa? I think I've seen you mention that you're in So Cal? I work right down the street from there!

Guys think you're not wearing makeup if:
- Your eye (shadow, liner) is in the brown (i.e., not green or blue) color range
- You're not wearing "lipstick" -- light-clored lipstain, clear matte lipgloss, etc. is fine.

You could be wearing tons of stuff (and I do), but if it's in the "natural" range,they have no clue.

Sure do sara!

I'm a born and raised Costa Mesa gal. I drop by often when I'm in the area visiting my parents. When I spend time in Chicago for work you better trust and believe I get home sick and go straight to their Mitsuwa.

I know it doesn't matter what I say, but LADIES!

Guys just love girls that have said, will say, might say, will think about saying, or in our dreams could in the future say "Hey Big Boy, these are for you!".

Everything else is attitude.

OT, Yesterday I saw my neighbor (Skruffy Biker Dude) talking to a nice looking woman standing about six feet away from him. Her body language was relaxed erect w/very little hand/arm movement.

As she gradually moved close her body language changed. Standing on one leg w/the other leg cocked back. Crossing one leg in front of the other. More animated arm/hand movement.

Once she was in touching range she would touch his wrist and then her heart. Lean against the porch railing in a "S" curve (very flattering). Bend into him to emphasize her point(?).

Once she took a step onto the porch she was in.

Amazing watching a pro at work (not whorish just womanly wiles). I'm am sure he had no idea what makeup she had on. He was dead meat walking and didn't know it.

Just saying.

What's amazing is when women pull out the stops with fake eyelashes, pushup bra, hair extension, and so on, and then complain about how hard it is to find a "Real Man".

While we are on the topic of make up and 'false advertising' (It isn't. It is putting your best foot forward)

Why do women hate on girls who get fake boobs so much? Not everyone, but for it seems for a large number of women, spending hours at the gym, the salon, the mall to look absolutely excellent is A-Okay, but getting The Girls lifted and enhanced is not.

I LOVE how men really just do not get how much work the "low-maintenance girl nextdoor" look requires.

You know, make up so I don't look "made up."

...and similar comments...

Guess what, some of us really do disagree with you.

My wife owns an eyeliner pencil. She probably somewhere has some dried up lip gloss, because she used to wear it, but stopped because she knows that I dislike it. Maybe 2 or 3 times a year, she wears perfume.

Hair products: she uses a rinse after washing her hair. Then she brushes it out and lets it dry. Done, finished.

Sometimes, she gets shit from other women for her lack of makeup. Near as I can tell, they're jealous, because they spend so much time and money on beauty products. They really can't stand the idea that some women don't.

Yes, ladies, some of us really do like *no* makeup, and we *do* know the difference.

Putting my "foot in mouth" but IME ladies that spent more than 15 minutes getting made up for a casual outing (not LBD night) were usually a little too much maintenance for me.

The Little Black Dress night was entirely different but unnecessary for me. They had me as soon as I saw the LBD and heels. Yowza! Boy did I feel lucky to be taking her out.

"Sometimes, she gets shit from other women for her lack of makeup. Near as I can tell, they're jealous, because they spend so much time and money on beauty products. They really can't stand the idea that some women don't."

No we're not jealous. Most of us like spending alot of money on makeup and beauty products. It seems like a really hard concept for alot of men to understand but makeup shopping is a hobby. It's like a guy who spends alot of money and time on his car would you say he was jealous of a guy who doesn't?

Usually women shit on other women for lack of makeup cuz they look drab. I know when I don't wear it, it's why my mom shits on me. I personally don't say anything ever because it's rude and none of my business. But trust me we aren't ever jealous, usually we think a woman would look a little more refined with a tiny bit of makeup.

And btw I think we stated a billion times that we know there is a minority of men who don't like an ounce of makeup but for some reason they are they most vocal about the subject.

"but getting The Girls lifted and enhanced is not"

Keeping it real. If they are subtle jobs I admire the new girls. I love Dita Von Teese's, Salma Hayek's and Kim K's.

But American women have a thing about overexposed bolted on basketballs and yeah such attention grabbing monstrosities I'm gonna snark at. I had a 5'0 100 lb friend that got D's...eww.

"What women in your life are STILL WEARING NYLONS?"

It puts the lingerie on its skin or else it eats at McDonald's again.

Ok, paraphrasing Buffalo Bill, but who wants to date a woman who won't wear nylons? No fun. Bad hippie!

I was once working in a field project with a woman who, one of the guys said, could model eye makeup for national accounts and...was by acclaim the hottest woman in the time zone.
She wore no makeup as far as I could tell.
Which, I heard, was not a Good Thing in the women's quarters.
Maybe she would have been better off putting on some makedown.

Men like the effect of make-up but don't like the fact that women wear it. They want us to just magically look like that.

The amount of make-up you should wear depends on your social circle, different circles have different expectations.

I hate the no nylon fashion. We're still not allowed to have cellulite, veins, etc just now we're not allowed to cover them up any more. It sucks.

Bitch I'm a motherfucking Sephora VIP Rouge, I pack that shit on you better be DAMN sure.

I always knew there was a reason I liked you, Ppen.

NicoleK

You can be sure the 'no nylon' rule isn't from me.

but who wants to date a woman who won't wear nylons? No fun. Bad hippie!

Are you talking about pantyhose? Because nobody under 50 would be caught dead. Certain *types* of pantyhose are making a comeback in haute couture/avante garde/hipster fashion (most notably the shinier and slightly tinted ones). And obviously patterned leggings are a thing now. But the skin-toned matte pantyhose that you wear because your legs don't look great and you still want to wear a short dress? The slightly darker ones that make your legs look tan that you wear because you didn't have time to run to the tanning booth before Cousin Martha's early-May wedding in Springfield, IL? I am sorry but those are basically on par with the scrunchy. They are no longer part of the "polished an put-together" outfit, but a clothing item that screams, "I haven't updated my wardrobe since 1997."

Fashionable women who don't like their natural legs wear long skirts/dresses and pants. Never hose.

I'm finding it funny to hear a guy say, "I prefer pantyhose." Perhaps a generational thing?

Anyway, here's a pretty good trend piece about who still wears pantyhose: http://fortune.com/2015/11/11/pantyhose-sales-fashion-work/ (For those who don't want to click through, it's hipsters doing it ironically, airline employees, and the fetish community appealing to those who want the secretary vibe).

Yes, ladies, some of us really do like *no* makeup, and we *do* know the difference.

I'm sure some of you do. We're mostly ragging on the guys who will say to us that we aren't like those *other* girls, because we look good without make-up. While we are wearing TONS of make-up. And expect us to take that as a compliment.

We're also ragging on LW's boyfriend who obviously assumes LW is buying make-up because she's insecure.

So. Got a word on tattoos?

The older I get, the worse makeup looks on me. I suspect that's true of most women. Foundation, no matter how light and moisturizing, sinks into tiny lines that aren't visible when I'm not wearing makeup. Nowadays I find that a good moisturizer with SPF, some mascara, maybe some light eyeliner, and a shimmery lip balm are all I need. Rice paper to blot oil is my preference over powder.

Ppen Says:

"And btw I think we stated a billion times that we know there is a minority of men who don't like an ounce of makeup but for some reason they are they most vocal about the subject."

Just to be the devils advocate here for a second... doesn't this statement strike you as a bit odd?

On the one hand you state that the men you hear from most and who are the loudest indicate that they do not prefer makeup... yet you counter intuitively insist that these men are in the minority.

How have you concluded that they are a minority?

What statistics do you have to indicate that they are the minority?

It seems to me that you believe they are in the minority there fore you declare that they are despite the fact that apparently most of your conversations suggest that men do not prefer makeup.

I get that you like makeup and that you prefer to wear makeup, but that doesn't translate to a preference for men.

As Amy pointed out, wearing makeup is like a man renting an expensive car to impress women.

Do women really prefer men who DRIVE fancy cars... or do they prefer men who OWN fancy cars.

There is a difference, just like there is a difference between women who wear makeup to look a certain way and women who just happen to look that way without effort.

If most men are telling you they don't like makeup you can't just dismiss their opinion because you disagree.

You need data and statistics to support your case. No one has presented any of this.

NickoleK Says:

"Men like the effect of make-up but don't like the fact that women wear it. They want us to just magically look like that."

Bingo!!!

I think this is a better match to reality than those who declare that men who do not like makeup are in some "minority".

Men and women like to see real signals of mate value.

Wearing makeup and/or renting expensive items one cannot really afford are efforts to disguise ones actual mate value and this is likely to be viewed negatively.

I simply object to the idea that we can just dismiss what a majority of people are saying by declaring they they are really just a very vocal minority.

The only way to differentiate between a vocal minority and a majority opinion is with carefully constructed surveys and polls. Otherwise people are just spouting their opinions as facts.

Artemis, how are YOU getting "most" and a "majority"?

We do have data. The women who earn the most money from being looked at by men...wear makeup. There are no bare-faced sex icons. We've figured out what men like over thousands of years.

Cosmetics are a billion-dollar industry. Women have been investing since time immemorial because in EVERY culture they have observed they get more attention from desirable men when they wear it.

Surveying men isn't as reliable as observing their behavior. For one thing, what men say they like and what they actually like don't always align. For another, since most men don't use makeup, they don't necessarily know when they're looking at it. Men like beautiful faces, and anything that brings our features into conformity is going to have a pleasing effect, as long as it's not distractingly artificial.

Insufficient Poison Says:

"Artemis, how are YOU getting "most" and a "majority"?"

I'm not.

Exactly where have I claimed anything about what most or the majority believe?

Asking for evidence to support another persons claim isn't the same as me asserting the opposite.

I'm simply skeptical that anyone here actually knows what "most" men want... especially when those same people claim that the people they keep hearing from are saying something different from what they are claiming.

"We do have data. The women who earn the most money from being looked at by men...wear makeup. There are no bare-faced sex icons. We've figured out what men like over thousands of years."

That doesn't support your claim any more than saying that the multi-billion dollar snack industry is evidence that people like to be fat.

People like sugar and sweets... but they do not like to be fat.

There is no contradiction there even though sweets and obesity are related.

That men like to look at women who wear makeup does not necessarily mean that men like that women wear makeup.

Again, there isn't a contradiction there... unless of course you want to make the logically analogous claim that most people like to be obese.

If you can see why that is silly, then you can also see why your argument is silly.

"Surveying men isn't as reliable as observing their behavior. For one thing, what men say they like and what they actually like don't always align."

Yeah... who needs to listen to surveys or what men say to understand what men think.

I keep hearing that women want to be thin... but since the behavior seems to indicate that women like to eat sweet and fatty foods, and since most women in the United States are in fact overweight... I guess I must conclude that women like to be overweight.

The flaws in the above argument are exactly the same as the flaws in your argument.

While it is true that men will prefer pretty faces... it does not logically follow that men prefer women to wear makeup in order to present a visage that is prettier than they actually are.

Amy touches on this in her column and it seems to have gone over your head:

"So, a man will think he has an aversion to makeup, but it's really an aversion to being deceived by it."

The point is that having an aversion to being deceived by makeup will have the same result in terms of a mans stated preference as to whether or not they prefer women to wear makeup.

That many men are deceived by makeup anyway doesn't suddenly negate their stated preference. Just like the fact that many women choose to eat unhealthy snacks doesn't negate their stated preference that they might prefer to be thin as opposed to overweight.

The problem with your perspective is that you are confusing behavior with preference. Many people behave in ways that are counter to achieving their actual goals. That doesn't imply that their stated goals are false.

I think you are just trying to make yourself feel better about using deceptive practices by justifying it that men really want you do deceive them. The sad reality is that no one likes being tricked, and makeup is in fact a trick of sorts. It is time for people like you to just get comfortable with reality and recognize that Amy is correct when she says this:

"makeup is fake-up -- a woman's way of making herself out to have more neotenous features and thus a higher mate value than she actually does."

Me n just dont want a woman who look like homie the clown of Mimi off of the Drew Carey show. A lot of women over do it. The make up you and the real you should resemble each other, Ive seen youtube videos where women looked as fine as wine wit make up but looked like Ms Sealy from the color purple without it

"Men like the effect of make-up but don't like the fact that women wear it. They want us to just magically look like that."

Truer words have never been said.

I'm a 64 yrs old guy. Throughout my life very seldom I have encountered another male that proclaims to prefer women wearing make-up. In reality, most men in this world don't give a 'cr*p, about women wearing make-up as long as it is not overly done and makes them look like cheap whores or the circus clown. Me personally, the less the better they look.