Don't guys obsess over the girl next door not the girl with the next modeling contract?

I've always found men prefer "cute", above average, pretty but really approachable over stunning. Even for jerk-off material. Most super popular porn stars are pretty but aren't stunners.

HOWEVER I do remember that OkCupid survey not too long ago that the women who get the most attention are women who cause polar opposite reactions in men. Meaning some mean think she's a stunner while others think she's ugly. The reason? Apparently guys assume cute girls get so much attention from everyone they choose women who they find attractive but with unique qualities other men wont.

Point supporting Ppen: Lea Michele. Some paparazzi sites rave about her - others yawn, pointing out Irina Shayk and assorted VS models and wondering, "Why?"

Read what the dating gurus say about women shit testing men (google for it). The hotties are probably low in self esteem, so they shit-test the hell out of their men, as a way to compensate. It doesn't take long to drive a man off that way.

Ppen,

There are a variety of issues that lead to the effect you are noticing.

The biggest is people's apparent dating range. If you think you can get people in to 2-5 range you don't bother chasing an 8. Most men don't think they can get a 10 so they don't bother chasing them. It is just a waste of time.

Next is cost vs. benefit. Even if you can get a 10 if she costs twice as much (in time, money, annoyance, ...) than an 8 then the 8 becomes a much better deal. There are trade offs and physical attractiveness is not the end all be all.

Thirdly is 'Never stick your dick in crazy.' As noted above, the really pretty girls tend to have mental problems. Part of it is they've had an easier life. People are more generous and forgiving to attractive people. So very attractive people don't learn the same socialization lessons as the rest of us (and this applies to both men and women). People tend to lie a lot to attractive people too. They tell them what they think they want to hear. But after decades of everyone constantly lying to you it isn't unusual to get a warped sense of the world.

As for porn, the really pretty girls can get a job doing something better. Porn can make good money but it isn't a great job and doesn't really lend itself to a career. Toss in men's desire for variety and you have an industry that chews through women. Once again, cost benefit analysis shows really pretty women aren't worth the expense.

That's why you move on to dating instead of hooking up.

Spending time w/someone w/o gagging or eye-rolling becomes a prerequisite for spending more time w/them. Excluding some mental issues and not looking like a troll, beauty has very little to do w/that.

As time and resources become more valuable, common interests and "likeability" become more important than "hotness".

Social activities (church, volunteering, dancing, etc.) are so important but are lacking in many adult lives. They are too "hot" to volunteer or (yuck) actually dance w/an average looking guy.

The cute girls, the average looking girls, the "fat" girls may actually have "lives" that do not revolve around shopping, bar-hopping, and complaining about how they are unappreciated.

Those "lives" are actually pretty interesting and fun to be around. They respond positively, they smile honestly, and they make you go "Wow!".

One [girlfriend] takes a daily pic in her car, showing how hot she looks. When I mentioned this to my boyfriend, he said guys want a hot girlfriend but they don't want one who does that. Please explain.

As others have said above, that one daily selfie tells guys what the most important thing in her life is. Even with the hotness, who wants to deal with that kind of vanity?

They are too "hot" to volunteer or (yuck) actually dance w/an average looking guy.

In the social dance scene (which I see as a microcosm of the dating world), I call it the "law of smile." For the most part, if you show up looking super hot and bitchy and start your night saying "No" to unattractive dudes/guys in dad-jeans/older men/anyone you don't want to f*ck, NOBODY will ask you to dance. Not even the hot men. They will all be asking the friendly (maybe less physically attractive) lady who smiles at everyone and has the time of her life dancing with Dad-Jeans guy. The exception is if hot-bitchy-lady is a phenomenal dancer, but that's rare.

Also, because everyone assumes hot chicks are bitchy and won't dance with you, the girls with tons of make-up, styled hair and body-con dresses get largely ignored (unless they are KNOWN in the scene and KNOWN to be friendly).

Just gotta say, if you're meaning Dad jeans, I prefer a comfy pair of Levis on a guy ANY day over skinny jeans. And please for the love of all things manly, do NOT wear jeans with anything bedazzled on the butt

Just gotta say, if you're meaning Dad jeans, I prefer a comfy pair of Levis on a guy ANY day over skinny jeans.

Dad Jeans (definition): Light-wash jeans that are not fitted in the legs, but ride up in the butt/crotch area. High-waisted.

///Apparently guys assume cute girls get so much attention from everyone they choose women who they find attractive but with unique qualities other men wont.///

Yes. This is describing me. My "beauty" (if you call it that) has always been polarizing and debatable. But I get hit on more than anyone I know.

I suspect men are very bold in their approach because, due to my unconventional looks, they assume I have only niche appeal and am not getting tons of attention from other guys.

Remember "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"? All my guy friends had a thing for Willow, who objectively IMO was less pretty than Buffy or the other characters.

"My "beauty" (if you call it that) has always been polarizing and debatable."

Every lady I've ever met that fit this description has been exceptionally interesting and fun to be with in conversation or otherwise.

"... if you show up looking super hot and bitchy and start your night saying "No" to unattractive dudes/guys in dad-jeans/older men/anyone you don't want to f*ck, NOBODY will ask you to dance."

Players gotta play so whether they knew it or not they were stating their rules of admission.

If you want the next few minutes to be enjoyable be with someone that is enjoying themselves.

If you want the next few weeks to be enjoyable go by how they treat other people (which by definition is YOU at this point in time).

"As others have said above, that one daily selfie tells guys what the most important thing in her life is. "

Yeah, pretty simply, it's the fact that self-centeredness turns most people off. It's like the guy who goes around flashing a wad of $100s at every opportunity.

I have been watching this stuff for 40 years.

Women VASTLY underestimate the value of a smile and being nice to guys. There are men out there who would kill for pleasant attention from just about any woman.

There are guys who get no attention. I mean for YEARS. They are desperate for a kind word.

I know overweight women who objectively are not that pretty but because they are so outgoing they never have trouble finding male attention.

People say it is all about looks. I guess that's why Christie Brinkley is on what, her fifth husband?

Here is one thing missing which I find a tad strange: it is a FEMALE gauging another woman's attractiveness level.

Okay, I will be having a conversation with my wife. She will mention how good looking one of her (granted older) friends is.

I will do my Marty Feldman impression over that characterization. Her friend is, to my narcissistic eyes, nothing to look at.

I find that women grading other women do a poor job of it when it comes to male tastes, particularly when it comes to their friends, where they also unconsciously weigh in their 'girl on girl' personality into the mix without thinking of it. They will see hair they want, maybe a set of slimmer hips than they have, and overweigh the appeal of these features that THEY value.

These 'gorgeous' women do not bring the same social interaction to men that they use with their fellow women, so that personality that the LW experiences, likely isn't there for men.

It isn't JUST about the selfies.

What Chester said...

Looks open the door. If you find someone ugly, that's already the end. After that, as Chester says, a nice smile and personality are more important.

Rich and powerful guys may be in the market for "trophy wives", but average looking guys with average wallets are not. They figure (a) the woman won't go out with them in the first place, (b) she's going to be high maintenance, and (c) she probably has a high opinion of herself.

That may all be wrong. I have been acquainted with a couple of absolutely stunning women who were not looking for a sugar daddy, and were not full of themselves. They actually had trouble getting dates with normal guys. Kind of a sad situation, if you think about it...

For this woman's friends: If they really are just ordinary people, they need to stop concentrating on their hotness and start showing their niceness. Scale back the make-up, start wearing ordinary clothes, and go out and meet people.

Somehow timely: Scott Adams (of Dilbert fame) is apparently on vacation. On his blog, he made a very specific note that he is on vacation with his current girlfriend, and posted a link to her website.

He's a smart guy, ok looking, but 59 years old, balding and short. More importantly, of course, he's rich. His girlfriend is, of course, a 20-something year old model. Posting the link is him showing off his trophy.

Looking at her website, she is almost certainly a classic Californian airhead, with a head stuffed full of crazy progressive ideas. Read her bio: Does she really think that strangers on the internet care about intimate details of her time in elementary school? Is that still so central to her adult life? How sad.

Let's take a poll of the guys here: While many of us may enjoy looking at her pictures, would any normal guy ask this woman out on a date? I certainly wouldn't. OMG, no.

wow a_random_guy I used to read Scott Adams quite a bit.

Ew.

Well, as a kid I learnt that there are two kinds of girls:
1) the one you f**k, but do not bring home.
2) the one you date and present to your mom.

The important skill to learn is how to see the difference. Apparently, miss "wondering" did not got that skill yet, which she should not need (as a lady) so it's ok.

We guy got to learn it soon or later.

Adams had a less trophy-like wife whom he seemed to adore, at least as recently as his last book. I wonder what happened. He said in the book that many men would prefer a woman who golfs to a supermodel.

Huh. He's pretty conservative too and does not suffer fools gladly. I wonder how those discussions go.

I read a couple of his post-divorce posts and he sounds insufferable. Like musings from a 20-something year old Redditor not a 59 year old best seller. The trophy gf makes sense now.

"As others have said above, that one daily selfie tells guys what the most important thing in her life is."

So now it's Scott Adams "selfies" that are the turnoff...

But Jenna (Mourey) Marbles is a bonafide YouTube magnate, having bunches of funny to put out there; she's also damned fine.

There's also cosplayer Kristen Hughey (whoa...); I've met her husband and he's a solid guy who appears to be doing everything right.

So there are exceptions.

Hot, an impediment? I suspect it's not how you pick them up, but how you let them down.

Fixed the Kristina Basham link for you...

Any else find it funny that the female OP is asking another female to explain what her boyfriend means?

Seems to me most guys will actually explain what they mean when asked.

As for "a_random_guy"'s question about asking her for a date: do I get to talk to her before asking?

I looked up Kristina Basham last night out of curiosity. In my opinion, this girl is a solid 10. I would love to hear if the guys agree.

However, I'm not sure what Adams is doing. He published two painful videos with her, and in both of them 1) she sounds like a COMPLETE idiot and 2) she appears to be disconnected from him and even recoiling from his touch. I would never have posted that "watching the debate" one. There are long stretches of silence. The sound is awful. He makes dumb remarks. Worst of all, Kristina looks absolutely miserable and merely guffaws on cue whenever Adams insults Clinton.

Now, she may not be an idiot. She has an advanced degree. She says she was a child genius. (Why that's on her modeling page, I have no idea.) She also states she was in the California GATE program, which I participated in in grades 2-4, and at least back then it was no joke, and kids got booted ruthlessly. But her rambling narrative on her web site just makes her sound dumb and crazy.

I think an embarrassing incident for Adams is inevitable.

IP,
Once you get past 25 it's amazing how many "10's" there are out there in the world doing regular stuff. There is eye-candy everywhere!

Yes the lady looks hot but I'm not sure what happens when she opens her mouth, you realize she's not involved in the day-to-day life of her two kids (do not know if this is her but suspect it), or you realize that she has not "found" herself/passion yet (not her fault as not everyone does).

Unless you are looking for shallow interests (easy lay, trophy GF now that you are successful) a "10" is nothing worth fooling with compared to a pleasant looking fun to be with WOMAN.

It's both reassuring and disruptive to my worldview. My inclination when I look at her is to think, I would LOVE to look like that. Like a Disney princess. Imagine the power.

But it would appear that the extent of her power is to date Scott Adams (a guy I once loved based on his books but whose social media presence has gradually begun to disgust me--a la Gad Saad). It looks like he's taking her around the world and then some, but she's also presumably sleeping with a man to whom she does not appear to be attracted. Since I myself, a non-model, would not date Scott Adams nor most of the creepy billionaire types and self-absorbed athletes these models land, I have to ask myself again what I would do with goddess-level beauty.

I agree with Bob.

On top of that to me that's not a 10 at all.

Giant fake tits too big for her body and blue contacts? Plus the lip injections are distracting. She uses insta filters and angles to look like that. But once I saw the video with her and Adams she just looked like the typical hot SoCal girl. Nothing you wont see lots and lots of.

I've always thought as 10's where reserved for (mostly) natural rare striking beauties.

"My inclination when I look at her is to think, I would LOVE to look like that. Like a Disney princess. Imagine the power."

BTW IP I have a couple of friends that look like that and a few clients that used to look like that.

Their husbands tend to get to the point where they are really rude to them due to the expense that comes with the upkeep. These are wealthy men.

And it's only women, like FIDO says, who rave about them. Guys tend to be meh.

It does take a lot of money to maintain the SoCal hotness. I've wondered what the ex-communicated Playboy girlfriends do when they leave, how they maintain their veneers, injections, and hair extensions.

Just looking at the link Rad posted she is pretty and young but that is about it for me. I'd rank her 7-8 like Ppen. But none of the things that bother Ppen bother me (tits, eye color, lips).

But there is another male/female difference. I'm an ass man. I like a nice tight muscular bottom. Other people are boob men or leg men. Guy are very visually stimulated and we often break women apart into pieces. We place a high value on just one part of a woman and the rest doesn't really matter.

Of course the rest matters. It is a BONUS.

IP,

It looks like he's taking her around the world and then some, but she's also presumably sleeping with a man to whom she does not appear to be attracted.

This has a long, honorable history in gender relations:

Maid Marian: Wait!

Sheriff of Rottingham: What for?

Maid Marian: If you promise not to kill Robin, I shall do the most disgusting thing that I can think of.

Prince John: Oooohhh.

Sheriff of Rottingham: Oh? And what's that?

Maid Marian: I shall marry you.

Sheriff of Rottingham: What? You'll be mine? You'll give yourself to me every night? And sometimes, right after lunch?

Maid Marian: Yes, but only my body. You can never have my heart, my mind, or my soul!

Sheriff of Rottingham: Oh, oh yes! I respect that.

**

She is a girlfriend, not a wife or LTR. And even if, as you postulate, it is a 'transactional' relationship, well, there is a reason that female escorts is an INDUSTRY and male gigolos are a statistical aberration.

I haven't watched any of the videos, and my fandom of Scott Adams has been strictly limited to reading Dilbert religiously, so maybe that's why I'm reading her website differently than most of you.

I think she discusses kindergarten in order to discuss her mental illness (OCD). Why she's doing that, I don't know, and I also don't know what it says about her. She does say it made her stand-offish in kindergarten, so maybe that explains why she seems that way in the videos. Or maybe she is another pretty person, who can't act. I'm pretty sure I'd come across as weird in such videos.

Would I date her? No. I need the opposite of stand-offish, But, maybe Dilbert's ex was very touchy feely, and now he needs the opposite of that.

FIDO, yes, you are right. Props for the Mel Brooks reference.

I'm saying it wouldn't be worth it to me. No matter what you're getting out of it, it's got to be HARD to be at the beck and call of a man who doesn't turn you on, and to deny yourself a relationship with someone who excites you.

I love luxury travel and nice things, but I couldn't withstand that situation in order to get them. You're trying to enjoy yourself in Tahiti, your dream come true....with him.

I see these extremely stunning women with super-rich men who are so unattractive, and I think, why not a somewhat rich guy who is sexy?

By the way, it is possible that Scott Adams is a god in bed and that she's head over heels. I'm just responding to how I read her body language.

IP,

I have to say I didn't see the videos because I am not willing to download and app to see him and I can't seem to get periscope to work otherwise.

Ever since Hillary and Bill (talk about a potential transactional relationship), I decided not to make guesses about the reality of people's relationships. That I do not get them does not mean that the actors involved don't get them.

Your comment about 'somewhat rich and sexy' reminds me of that saying about a doctor: "If he can't get married, it's because he doesn't want to be married."

Same thing. Somewhat rich, sexy men are already married if they want to be. They are already dating if they want to be. And if they don't want to be, they still have a rota of 7-9s waiting in the wings, each one hoping she has that secret sauce which he can't live without.

Yeah, I hate those guys too, for entirely different reasons.

Her reticence at being in frame with him might be for a slightly different reason however: She is a female model selling the fantasy to the male population: See me! Want me! I might be yours!

It is very hard to do that when the image these men have is 'and I'm in an LTR with an image challenged nerd who is wealthier and more famous than you'. Pretty much every single Playboy Playmate (she was one) probably had a boyfriend. Somehow, they always neglect to mention that little nugget in their bios for a reason.

Obviously, Scott Adams would take out a billboard to display to the world what his nerd ass is now pulling down if he didn't know better or she would dump him if he did so.

She is very pretty, and were I single and somewhat rich and sexy enough, I would probably give her a try.

However, putting myself into the shoes of Scott Adams, who has essentially unlimited options due to his wealth...well, according to her bio, she is a badly divorced mother of two, whose OCD is severe enough that she can't hold a job, and she was in 'dark places doing things she wasn't proud of' (God knows what that was)

Scott Adams may not be panty dampening material, but as an LTR, she has enough red flags to have a small Communist Parade.

Maybe Kristina Basham is just the typical "valley girl" that has bagged her trophy.

My feeling is that, in general, the prettier a woman is, the more likely she is to be narcissistic. This doesn't mean that all gorgeous women are raging narcissists, nor does it mean that no average-looking women are narcissists. But I think there's a general relationship.

I don't think it even has anything to do with narcissism, though it might.

A pretty girl is in the same place as Scott Adams: she has a TON of options and she has been made aware of this fact since she bloomed from a freckle faced kid to a woman.

I loved that scene in American Beauty, with that very pretty girl in there, where that 16 year old hottie just matter of factly stated that pretty much every man she meets wants to engage carnally with her.

So when you can have rich men, poor men, sexy men, stacked men, entertaining men, handsome men, high status men...exactly how much nonsense are you going to take from any particular man?

The power dynamic is on her side. Not a lot of men are comfortable there EXCEPT extraordinary men in their own right, like very rich men, sports stars, etc.

I am not sure this is the whole truth, but I think I have a piece of it.

"Rich and powerful guys may be in the market for "trophy wives", but average looking guys with average wallets are not."

"I have a friend who has a trophy wife. Apparently, it wasn't first place." - Steven Wright

There are a TON of people out there who might be suitable for each of us if we went looking - but loneliness and desperation often poisons the search.
Here's where a frequent Goddess line rings out again: "To be happy with someone else, you must be happy with yourself."