While they're waiting, maybe the Quebec government can issue the patients Portable Piddle Packs like the fighter pilots use.

I have two things to say about it:

First, Le Journal de Montreal is not a "rigorous" newspaper. There's a joke out there that, of armageddon was predicted for the following day and the local hockey team won the stanley cup the day before, the front page would barely talk about the apocalypse.

On the other side, the portrayal of socialized medicine is right on the button. It is the government who sets quotas over everything from operating time to the waiting lists for EVERYTHING. For the last few decades, patients at the local ER are parked in corridors of the hospital due to the lack of rooms. This is disgraceful but the situation exist regardless of witch political party is in power.

Now, here's how Socialism works in the province of Quebec; First the intelligentsia came with a new way to help "The People" with a new progressive idea. The idea is sold to the public by an enthusiastic government, who claim progressive acumen. After the new idea is put to place, it will be under-financed and understaffed.

The perfect example is the provincial "5$" daycare system. The socialized system went from 5$ to 7$ a day, with the government fighting all attempt from the operators to charge extras to the parents. The waiting list is huge and chaotic while the worker's union (Surprise!) are already lobbying for pay raises.

Welcome to the social...

I would also caution against using "Le Journal" as a reliable source. It's more of a tabloid.

What I find most amusing is all my fellow Canucks who brag that Canada spends less on health as a percent of GDP as the US does. Well there you have the results.

I would suggest the solution for all health care systems is not more regulation, but less.

Mark Steyn hating on Canada. Shocker!

I recently had a talk with a Canadian friend about their socialized med system and this mirrors her experience -- and those I've read and heard about before. Luckily, she is now a tenured prof at a U.S. university.

Mark Steyn hating on Canada. Shocker!

Whatever. It's not like they didn't try to put him in jail for repeating a muslim's words or anything.

You want socialized medicine? Go live in Canada.

Keep your laws off my body.

Amy - the perception is that it is "free". Canadians pay much more in taxes than we do, but nobody seems to care because they've rationalized it all away. It's the world's biggest case of group Stockholm syndrome.

The State only beats me because it loves me.

I can echo that for Canada, I paid close to 50% in taxes when I had a university job there, I pay waaaay less here %-wise with my SoCal university job and actually have a slightly higher salary.

Well as Amy blogged the Netherlands hits you up for 52%.

I don't want to work half the year (or my life) to support the people who are just lazy bums. I have no problem with a safety net to keep people from just dying; but have an issue with want to suck off the teat.

In South Africa, increasingly socialized healthcare has a simple, straightforward effect on our best doctors: They emigrate, to go earn a living in places where they can be paid the value of their services. It is also discouraging smart young people from studying medicine at all.

"And, when comparisons of health "costs" between nations are made, the time you spend in the bathroom each night and the subsequent impact on your work performance the following day are not factored in."

Indeed, and there are still other feedback effects. Again, in South Africa, one of the reasons that highly skilled people in *other* fields prefer to leave is that the better doctors are generally in other countries.

Looking for advice out there- how does one best file a complaint about an outrageous medical bill?

I had a routine visit last month for the flu, and the doctor saw a mole on my forearm and asked if I wanted it removed. Two minutes later and a few squirts of liquid nitrogen, I was outta there. I just received the invoice- $365.00 for "destruct benign". There was no mention of an additional charge when this was done, and I thought it all part of the regular doctor visit. Any advice?

I have never once said that Canada's system is great. My point above was that Steyn's not likely to be the best person for a fair and accurate critique of that country's institutions, for the reason Brian mentioned.

Thanks Amy- I'll let you know what happens.

> To maintain goodwill, you might
> offer to pay some nominal sum.

I'd go higher than a nominal payment, especially if he's an otherwise competent physician.

There was no mention of an additional charge when this was done, and I thought it all part of the regular doctor visit. Any advice?

My first question is if you have insurance. If you do, then typically anything done under the office visit is covered by your initial co-pay, and you shouldn't be billed back unless it was completely uncovered by insurance. You can confirm this with your insurance carrier and determine if it was a covered event and if so, at what rate.

Second attempt to speak with the office manager about the billing and see if you can come to an understanding. If the office manager won't discuss it with you, then I would demand to discuss it with the doctor. Most doctors are sympathetic about stuff like this and generally know what will and won't be covered by insurance. I personally would agree that he needs to be paid for his services, but $365 for 5 minutes of work is excessive unless you are Dr. Debakey. If neither the doctor or the office manager will discuss additional or more fair arrangements, I would start looking for another doctor.

I agree that doctors should be paid for their time, but that is just stupid.

-Julie

Holy dissonance, Batman!

Here at the tail end of a thread full of commenters wailing about the eeevuls of socialized medicine...a whole string of comments dedicated to how to get either a doctor to bill a reasonable amount for a procedure, or get an insurer to pay for it...looks like 3 or 4 phone calls at a minimum to clear up this little misunderstanding (though why, I ask, would anyone in our pay-for-everything-or-do-without medical system have ever assumed that ANY procedure, no matter how minor would NOT be billed, and at a high rate)...but small price to pay, I suppose, for the BEST HEALTH CARE IN THE WORLD that some 25% or more of us can't afford.

Thank god you weren't in Canada, though - you might have had to wait 3 years to get that benign mole removed!