Sweet cream on an ice cream sandwhich, what in the BLUE HELL ARE THESE PARENTS THINKING??? It's no wonder that this is also spawning the "boomerang" generation. Make home a place that kids don't want to be...be boring parents...that makes them face the "dangerous" outside world. Hope that you prepared them as best you could.

Present day 20 somethings, explain to older generations that "well you didn't have computers, iPods, the internet" and don't hear enough, "you're right, we didn't, so we invented them"..."what have you done to make things better for the next generation?"...

Wow...So this seems like the best way to raise your children if you want them to end up living in your house FOREVER. Keep in mind they won't pay rent, you'll still do all their chores for them, probably still pay all their bills and they won't go to college or will live at home/run home when they find out they have to to do shit for themselves. Score.

My parents made me want to go to college. My mom was encouraging and wanted me to have goals and dreams that I could realize in college. My dad made me want to go just to get the hell away from him. Good Cop/Bad Cop was a very effective child rearing tool.

My kids love me and they don't get away with Squat! I have at times taken literally everything out of my daughter's room but her furniture and made her earn it all back.

OF coarse she is always talking about how she want to move out when she is older.

want=wants sorry.

I've mentioned my sister here before, I believe. She's a classic example of a 'friend' parent. When we were kids my parents were sensible. No allowance unless it was earned, we all had chores. We bought non-essentials ourselves. My niece has everything handed to her...my sister doesn't want her to feel left behind or that she's doing without what other kids have. The problem is she doesn't make her earn any of it.

She's in her second year of high school and on her fourth cell phone. They conveniently break when a new model comes out, Sis falls for it every time. I'd make my kid earn the second one, there might not be a third and a fourth. Frequent iPod upgrades (those 'break', too)and now she's pushing for the aluminum Mac laptop (the name escapes me at the moment), something like $1,600, to do her homework on. In high school. No curfews, no mandatory chores, she's had a part time job for almost two years and still has no money in the bank. It's like watching a train wreck!

Another interesting aspect of this kind of mother is the 'my kid would NEVER do that!'. You can give them naked evidence that they're being played and they always come back with the above. They chew out the teachers who catch their darlings cheating on tests ('Never! How dare you say that!?'). It's just horrific.

Since she is taking money and food at home shoplifting may not be far behind. My brother and I have campaigned long and hard for some discipline and warned of pitfalls (he is a junior high/high school ESL teacher with 300 pupils, my son is 27, so I've done the teenager thing :-D) but it falls on deaf ears. Her daughter would NEVER do anything like that, of course. He and I are waiting for the bomb to go off one day.

I can't tell you how this all disturbs me, as well as breaks my heart.

Again I'll say, it's not the kids, but the parents that disgust me nowadays.

God forbid parents might like to go to yoga or Starbucks or eat sushi with their kids. I mean really? I think this article is taking it a little too far.

"The two agree to put the shoplifting incident behind them."

Because basic honesty isn't important, and a criminal record won't keep her from getting anything beyond a menial job. Nice going, "Mom" - you're raising a single mother into poverty.

"...society has essentially realigned itself to cherish the child,..."

And no one has ever done that before, right?

Somebody hit that idiot with a stick. Every bit of governmental stupidity now hogging your pay and strangling you is the result of some well-meaning idiot working to make people feel good, rather than thinking and working hard to get real things done.

You know, it's funny - both of my girls tell me they hate me at least once a month. Usually right after I ground them or take away some privilege or other, for something they've done that was unacceptable. Like, fail a class, or lose a cell phone, or swear at someone (me or their sister or someone else), or otherwise misbehave. Which isn't often, mind you, but they know there are consequences to bad behavior. Last time #2 told me she hated me, I said "Good! That means I'm doing my job." Which is to raise her and her sister to be independent, smart, thinking adults. They know I'll always have their back when they are unjustly accused of something, but if they screw up knowingly, they will reap what they sow. I keep telling them life in the big city goes on, whether they want it to or not.
The reality of it is, we get along well for the most part, and there are a lot of times when they tell me they love me. They have a lot of friends, but only ONE mom. And that would be ME.

My middle daughter started at university when she was 16. The school is a 15 minute drive from our house. I made her move into campus housing. Oh she cried, told all her friends what a mean mommy I was. She came home every weekend for the first year. Now she's involved in her campus community, maintains a part time job, is the captain of her crew team and will be graduating in the fall this year (she's a bit of an over achiever). Now she appreciates the fact that I made her take that step and forced her out of the nest. She loves her independence and has learned to take care of herself. She's even become quite a cook. One of the reasons I made her take that step was because that kid has been velcro'd to me since the day she was born. I truly was worried that she would be my kid who was going to be at home forever.

... but weren't many of the folks here complaining about the horrors visited on society by the "don't trust anyone over 30" generation?

Now we're.... what? Nostalgic for rebellion?

Nostalgic for imagery of parents and other grown-ups as out-of-touch know-nothings?

Media imagery is not reality.

The reality of parent-child relationships has always lain somewhere between the extremes of "Father Knows Best" and "All in the Family".

The reality is that parents can discipline - and also build memories of shared interests and activities.

Hmmmm. I liked my parents when I was a teen. I like my parents now that I'm an adult. However, as a teen I never, ever saw my parents as my "friends." I never referred to my friends as "Ma'am" and "Sir," for one thing.

Yeah, I was a boring goody-two-shoes kid (and am pretty much the same as an adult), but my parents were pretty good at combining discipline with the encouragement of independence -- they didn't need to know where I was every second, but trust me, if I had ever shoplifted, they'd have come down like the hammer of Grabthar. My conclusion: Some teens are going to like their parents, some teens are going to hate them, some will be in the middle. Presenting a world in which all teens are in the first or the second category is, IMHO, unrealistic, but that's just me.

I told my kids I was the meanest dad in four states, and made sure they knew I was proud of that fact.

When the girl got to an age where bad things happen, she was glad to use me as an excuse to evade peer pressure. She would come racing home, laughing with glee, to avoid "being beaten to a pulp by the meanest dad in four states", while her buddies were getting knocked up, involved with drugs, etc. Heh, heh.

I forgot to add that when my daughter became a young adult, and finally understood why I did what I did, she announced she, if ever a parent, was going to be much meaner than I was.

My kids love me and they don't get away with Squat! I have at times taken literally everything out of my daughter's room but her furniture and made her earn it all back.

Just to clarify, this is the way to be. And the way Flynne describes -- with her girls "hating" her once a month. The reason you "hate" your parents is that they won't let you get away with the stuff you want to get away with. This is the definition of being a parent.

Naturally, I loathe the findings of the study - while guiltily recognizing there is some truth to it.

I think both my husband and I have tried to compensate for some of the deficiencies we diagnosed in our upbringings - so that our own teenagers avoided the prolonged, resentful cold war we remembered from adolescence.

We have probably over-compensated!

My teens and I get along very well. I'm not an overly permissive parent and I do know how to say no. This article loses the fact that you can get along with your child and still be a parent. Just because I may do things or share a taste in clothing or music doesn't mean I can't separate the lines. My teens go through the same things I did with peer pressure, the worries of school, cliques, etc. The difference is my mother never listened to a word I had to say about anything and I remember that feeling that nobody cared and I made a promise to myself as a teenager that when the time came, I'd listen to my kids and let them know they were loved and important. I think that this article confuses that with parents who want to remain kids themselves by extension through their kids.
Setting rules and boundaries doesn't mean you can't have a close relationship. My kids know they can come to me no matter. I don't think that makes me a bad parent. I'm reasonably sure the kids who are sneaking around doing things they shouldn't be doing are the ones who can't go to their parents. So why make a coffee at Starbucks and a yoga class a bad thing.

I remember having the best of both worlds. I loved my parents, and we had a great relationship, but there was enough friction that I looked forward to moving out.

Visiting with them was better than living with them.

*****I've mentioned my sister here before, I believe. She's a classic example of a 'friend' parent. When we were kids my parents were sensible. No allowance unless it was earned, we all had chores. We bought non-essentials ourselves. My niece has everything handed to her...my sister doesn't want her to feel left behind or that she's doing without what other kids have. The problem is she doesn't make her earn any of it.

She's in her second year of high school and on her fourth cell phone. They conveniently break when a new model comes out, Sis falls for it every time. I'd make my kid earn the second one, there might not be a third and a fourth. Frequent iPod upgrades (those 'break', too)and now she's pushing for the aluminum Mac laptop (the name escapes me at the moment), something like $1,600, to do her homework on. In high school. No curfews, no mandatory chores, she's had a part time job for almost two years and still has no money in the bank. It's like watching a train wreck!*****

OMG Do we have the same sister? The only difference is my niece is just 13. Oh, and the "favorite". He 11 year old sister does not do this, nor would it likely fly if she tried. I don't know which pisses me off more.

You know, my mom always said it was good to be a little bit afraid of your parents, and I think she's absolutely right. She was also one of the moms who, if you said she was mean, would just agree with you. She's awesome. :D

These kids are friends with their parents as long as the parents give them everything they want.

So the children, typically girls, hold the parents, typically moms, emotionally hostage because as soon as they don't get what they want they withhold their friendliness and friendship from the parent.

The emotionally weak parent will cave in and give the kid what they want to get the "friendship" or warm fuzzy feelings back.

Somebody smart once said, "What kid wants a 40 year old friend?"

I have a girlfriend who parents like this - best friends with her son and daughter. I hadn't seen her in many years and we reconnected. The bad thing was, she would ask me out to lunch or dinner and her 20 year-old daughter would show up "unexpectedly" (surprise!). Then when that happened, we never had any intimate girlfriend conversations, since the daughter hung on to every word. This happened about five times and then I finally got wise to it. They bragged that they watched the Gilmore Girls together religiously, and the rare times I spent with my friend alone, the daughter and her were talking on the phone constantly or texting, just like best friends. My friend and I didn't even have that closeness with our own mothers. I couldn't handle "the package deal" with both of them, so the friendship dissolved. Weird, though. Never before had friends with kids who were so buddy-buddy together. Somewhat creepy.

I think it's sad that people find close parental-child relationships "creepy."

I am very close with my daughter. We laugh, text, share clothes and shoes. That doesn't mean I give her everything she wants. Not at all! To me, that's not even being a "best friend".

I tell my best friend when I think she's wrong or making a big mistake. Of course, I don't punish her since she's not within my authority (though I sure wish I could sometimes!)

The point is that being lenient and telling someone whatever they want to hear isn't even true friendship. A parent can be friends with their child without being indulgent.

There isn't as much of a generation gap between kids and parents these days - not like, for instance, the WWII generation and the kids of the 60s, who had very little in common. For some reason, the music and stuff kids today are into isn't that much different from what we were/are into. Maybe because of the pace of technology. I'm not sure.

My daughter listens to Bob Marley, Curt Cobain, and wears the same flared jeans I did at her age, so it's not hard to relate. To me, that's a wonderful thing - something to be cherished. She still gets grounded or loses privileges if she misbehaves, but it's great that we can talk like "friends" about so much of what she is going through as a teenager.

And I find because of the close relationship we have, she is less likely to be rebellious and act badly. She has a job now, makes good grades, and acts responsibly because she wants my approval and respects my opinion.

My mother was in the throes of a deep depression when I was in Jr High/High School. She slept all the time. I had a curfew, but she was always asleep by the time it came around and never woke up no matter how late I came in. I pretty much got away with murder and I still hated her. Luckily, my Dad was the most caring, supportive Dad a girl could ask for. He kept on my case about grades and such, but he always made time to go to my sporting events or choir concerts. So, I respected him when he would lecture me about bad grades or force me to sit down and do homework on my weekends with him. My mother, however, got a big FU whenever she tried to act like a parent. We were friends. She didn't treat me like her kid, so why should I treat her like my parent?

My point is, you can be someone your kid likes and still lay down the law, but if you don't act like a parent, your kids isn't going to treat you like one. Yes, you should be your kid's #1 supporter, but part of supporting them is showing them right from wrong and holding them accountable for their actions.

I wish my mom was more supportive, but I do think both of my parents did a good job of making me earn some of the things I wanted. They provided basic soap and shampoo. If I wanted the fancy brands that my friends were using, I had to pay for it myself. They would buy me a few new pairs of pants, a pair of shoes and a few tops for each new school year. If I wanted anything else or more expensive, I had to buy it myself. I started working at 13. I think it's important to show kids how good it feels to earn your own money. Too many parents today feel like they're depriving their child if they don't buy them everything they want when they're really causing more damage if they are.

How are they going to survive on their own if they never get a chance to try?

Parents can certainly be friends with their offspring.

But that friendship should occur when the kids are adults, not kids. Until then, parents are parents, not friends.

Hopefully at that point, the offspring understand that friends do not mooch, lie, manipulate, harass, whine (too much), etc., etc.

"I think it's sad that people find close parental-child relationships "creepy.""

There is close, then there's too close. Just think about it seriously, and you'll be OK when something comes up.

For instance, you can't really take on the misfortune that awaits your youngster. On occasion, you'll have to be diamond-hard and steel-tough fighting on their behalf, but you can't make them expect that they don't have to do anything themselves.

Hey, you might find other people sad, but you have your own row to hoe. Nobody's going to take your place, whatever you you're doing. I might suggest you're being a nut here and there, but this isn't such a case. All I ask is that you think and do your best while I do the same!

As for "creepy" - what would you think if a father and son acted like you and your daughter? Father & daughter?

David M said:

"Somebody smart once said, "What kid wants a 40 year old friend?"

Dude! Who else will buy the beer?

***Just to clarify, this is the way to be. And the way Flynne describes -- with her girls "hating" her once a month. The reason you "hate" your parents is that they won't let you get away with the stuff you want to get away with. This is the definition of being a parent.***

The thing the eldest did to incur my wrath... Setting paper on fire and then laying it on her wood dresser to watch it burn. She had not a note book or anything to enjoy..or burn.. Just her furniture and the knowledge she could have literally burned us out of house and home. That was about the angriest I had ever been at one of my kiddos. Though after that I really didn't have to do it again.

And they would never say they hated me. At least not out loud. The eldest did write that I was a bich one time. She was 7.. And yes I know it is misspelled.

Anyhow. Punishments must be in proportion.. Wouldn't have done the bare room thing if it wasn't really bad..

My theory is the parents who want to be "friends" with their kids are just simply desperate to cling to their youth. Remember Amy Poehler as Mrs. George in "Mean Girls"? Sometimes I wish I was still a size 4 and could run around in Daisy Dukes and tank tops. Of course, some times I also wish Gerard Butler would show up in his shorts and clean my house. Both are never to going happen. People who really do "grow up" learn to move on and find joy in the stage of life they are in.
I love my kids with all my heart. They are funny, talented, and a ball to hang out with. But my husband and I make it clear that we are the parents, and we make the rules. As we say "This is a Mommy and Daddy production. Produced by Mommy and Daddy. Directed by Mommy and Daddy. Released through Mommy and Daddy studios."

I am close to my parents. They were strict, which motivated me. I got a full time job at 16 on top of school, and moved out at 17. I wanted to be in charge of my own life. Didn't really have anything to do with not liking them, I just have issues with authority.

My barely 6 year olds are already saying they can't wait to move out and make their own choices (and, sometimes, they hug me and say they are going to stay with me forever, so who knows!) If you don't want control of your own life, there's something seriously miswired in you.

When they tell me they just don't like me, I'm pretty sure I just did something right.

"As for "creepy" - what would you think if a father and son acted like you and your daughter? Father & daughter?"

Actually, I think the mother/daughter team foisted on the girlfriend was too much (I didn't read the whole post). My daughter and I do not have the same friends, nor would I want that, even if she was older.

However, the goal is to eventually become friends, or at least friendly. Not at age 6, of course, but certainly at 16, with two more years at with her at home, it is time to start making that transition. She will be an adult soon, out on her own, and I will have no say whatsoever. So, I've shifted from telling her what to do (in most cases) to trying to positively influence her decisions and choices.

As a result, I know what's going on with her because we have the communication of friends, and that is VERY important at this age. Many teens do not feel they can talk to their parents about sex, drugs, etc, and they are really clueless about what their kids are actually doing, some of which is really dangerous.

I believe in keeping the lines of communication open, and sometimes that means "acting" more like a friend than a parent - listening without lecturing, for instance - but I never forget that I am the parent. If she makes bad choices, she gets in trouble.

So far, she seems to be making very good choices, and she's buying her own things with her own money, holding down a job (hostessing at a restaurant) and maintaining her grades.

The only recent decision I've disliked was her choice to get a nose stud. It's tiny, but I was against it. I laid out the reasons why (mainly it might leave a scar in her face), and we discussed the pros and cons. I had to give my permission, which I had previously refused, but after our discussion - and her agreeing to pay for it - I allowed it. After all, it's HER face.

Kind of cute, really. Not as bad as I'd feared. There are so many worse things she could be doing that, on issues like that, I would rather address it more as a concerned friend than a punitive parent. You learn to use your power more sparingly with teens, and I think, at least with my kids, this method has turned out well, as they are both responsible and have stayed out of trouble.

I'm with Lovelsoul on this. I would never trade the relationship my mother had with her parents with the one I have with my kids. Its possible to be close with your kids and still be a parent. Our generation does not have the same emotional distance our parents or their parents did. I see that as a good thing.

I may be one of the parents that you are talking about.

I learned that punishment did not work with our son. Talking with him and reasoning did. Even now, if I think he may be taking a wrong turn, I just talk to him. I ask him to think about his goals and ask him to think about whether his behavior was taking him closer to his goal or further away from it. We've talked about how important his name and reputation is.

So far, he makes good choices consistently. He is a 4.31 student who plays football and baseball. He has a notable reputation as an honest and hard-working young man. (As a matter of fact, I am taken aback by his behavior sometimes - he's not 40 after all.)

Since he plays two sports, we do not require him to work. This tactic has worked in my opinion. He earned enough in scholarships to pay for his education.

This is not the way I was raised. My parents expected us to work for them rather than the other way around. I couldn't please my mother and quit trying. I didn't finish high school, drank, and did drugs. What else could she do to me except kill me? And perhaps that would have been a relief.

You could say that I bounced back. Perhaps my son will fall down and be unable to pick himself up. But right now, I would say that our parenting techniques have been successful.

"Media imagery is not reality."

At one time, "Roseanne" was the #1 show on television, widely acclaimed for its reality.

But "reality television" - actually just pretend games with good camera work and dirt-cheap budgets - leads programming today.

I suggest that pretending is just more and more fashionable, as people hide from reality.

I mean, please. We live in an era when someone calling themselves a "liberal" fights for jail sentences for those who don't agree with their policies. We are liars first and foremost, whether professional and claiming that we have paid the government loan back, or the amateur claiming to be responsible enough for legalized drugs while currently committing felonies to get what we want.

We pretend that our children are our peers while causing legislation to keep them dependent until age 26.

We're a sick people. We will be overtaken, and soon.

> We will be overtaken

You'll be overtaken. Some of us will thrive when the revolution comes.

> I would never trade the relationship my
> mother had with her parents with the one
> I have with my kids

There's no doubt that some of the teen angst out there is a media creation.

But there's nothing new under the sun.

Says the Bible.

Which also says respect your mother and your father.

This is good advice! Doesn't mean you have to be friends, doesn't mean you eventually have to decide they were right after all, doesn't mean you have to raise your kids the way they raised theirs.

In recent generations in America, parents and children have seem HUGE changes in what each might have hoped to see out of life. People live a third longer than they used to, and that's just for starters.

All of these generations might have improved their encounters by not assuming that they didn't share the same language. For nearly fifty years, the word "teenager" described a human being who was so far removed from the rest of the human experience that conversations and exchanged responsibilities were presumed to be pointless.

But that was never true. Parents shouldn't try to be buddies with their kids. But if they're getting along, they ought not to assume that something's out of order.

See what I mean about pretending?

re: lovelysoul
And I find because of the close relationship we have, she is less likely to be rebellious and act badly. She has a job now, makes good grades, and acts responsibly because she wants my approval and respects my opinion.

******
Although this all sounds rosy, the red flag I hear is that she's being trained to seek out your approval. The danger is that she will always look to others to determine her self worth. The goal is for her to make good choices for herself from her own internal compass - not yours.

But that was never true. Parents shouldn't try to be buddies with their kids. But if they're getting along, they ought not to assume that something's out of order.

I agree, Crid. A parent's motivation shouldn't be "so my kid will like me." As Isomber said above, it's the fault of the parents if the relationship is too buddy-buddy. I liked my parents when I was a kid. I liked doing things with them, because they were smart and interesting people (still are, and I still like doing things with them). I don't think I ever once said I hated them or had a screaming fit of anger directed toward them. This is because I knew that they were in charge and I couldn't get away with anything. My dad said to me many times when I was elementary-school age that anything I thought of doing, he'd done it first and would know if I did.

A huge part of why I had a good relationship with my parents but still recognized their authority has to do with their policy on whining. From before I could even speak in complete sentences, my parents made it clear that whining would get me nothing. I can remember very clearly being in preschool and seeing my classmates whining to their parents about wanting something and being baffled that it worked. I was made to ask nicely and, when I was a bit older, give rational answers for why I wanted whatever it was. A good bit of the time the answer was no. It was explained to me that even though I was doing the right thing by not whining, that didn't mean the answer would be yes. My parents kept that subtly firm hand all through my teenage years. I was encouraged to be independent, but I always felt safe in the knowledge that they would back me up if I needed it (but I was made to try to take care of it myself first). Just anecdotal first-hand experience here, but I am proof that parents can have good, even friendly relationships with their kids without it leading to dependency or delinquency. And my parents were not perfect, let me tell you.

they didn't need to know where I was every second, but trust me, if I had ever shoplifted, they'd have come down like the hammer of Grabthar

I had this, too, marion. I was never really even tempted to shoplift. Probably because I wasn't desperate for attention and had no burning desire to rebel. Also because I knew what would happen to me if I did. A side note to marion: by the sons of Warvan, you will be avenged.

You know, they film parts of galaxy quest in Goblin Valley a few miles down the highway from my first college. A coouple of my freinds were hired as night security.

http://www.google.com/search?q=goblin+valley&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

Facinating geology

"Although this all sounds rosy, the red flag I hear is that she's being trained to seek out your approval. The danger is that she will always look to others to determine her self worth."

My daughter is very much her own person with her own ideas. I just meant she would miss sharing them with me if we weren't close, or if I was overly judgmental.

It's a beautiful thing to watch your child develop emotionally and intellectually. The other day, she told me she was questioning the existence of God because of the holocaust, then expounded on her belief system, such as it is at 16.

Some parents might freak out about that, but I find it interesting and know that she will probably go through many phases over the next few years where her philosophy will change.

On sex, for instance, she is still opposed to losing her virginity, although almost of the girls her age have now "chosen" to do so. She and only 2 other girls in her group of friends hasn't yet slept with a boy.

It's kind of humorous, but I heard of this exhange the other day: My daughter, Annie, asked her friend if she was still a virgin, and the friend said, 'Yes, I'm waiting for my birthday.' So, Annie asked, 'When's your birthday?' and the girl replied, 'This weekend'.

Then, Annie asked, 'Who is the boy?' and the girl said, 'I don't know yet. It depends on who comes to the party."

I was proud to hear that my daughter launched into a lecture of "Where is your self-respect?...How can you sleep with a boy you barely know?...Can't you see he'll probably dump you the next day and then you'll feel even worse because you gave him that?"

This really comes from her now, not me, though I'd like to believe that I've influenced her belief system in our discussions, which is why staying close to your teen is important (not to mention that I know who's sleeping with whom and which birthday parties to let her attend :).

I had a simmilar conversation about sex with my yougest brother, though it was more about avoiding prison then waiting for love

My late mother raised us kids with an excellent balance of warmth and accountability. She was kind and loving, but wouldn't hesitate to call us on the carpet if we'd done something wrong/hurtful/damaging emotionally or physically. I'm glad she did, because once we were out in the world, we already knew actions have consequences. My husband and I have always had reward systems and punishment systems firmly in place for our daughter, centering on, for instance, losing her privileges (defined as not being able to watch TV, listen to her music, or do anything on her computer that isn't homework) if she slacks off on her schoolwork or does something rude and uncalled-for. At first, it was to help give her a sense of structure to help control her ADHD and Asperger's Syndrome. Happily, this has helped her in other areas of life, too. Luckily, our daughter is a good kid with good values and a kind, empathetic nature. She rarely needs to be punished for anything, and we'd like to think that's because we set the ground rules early. And yet our daughter adores us and we adore her! Whooda thunk it? :-)

Raised two kids to adulthood. Happy to share advice with others when asked on what I would do but every kid is different. Every parent needs to pick their own path. No instruction manual.

My focus on raising my kids was gradually shifting them from external discipline to internal discipline as preteens. External means they take ownership and responsibility for the outcome and not just following the "rules". For example, if curfew was 10 pm, they owned being home by 10. Period. I didn't care what happened to cause them to be late, they owned being late. That explanation might mitigate the punishment but punished they would be. And they knew it. That way, I am not trying to deal with every excuse because there are no valid reasons. If you thought this would happen, perhaps you should not go next time or leave earlier. Oh, you didn't think that would happen? I guess you know better now. What is amazing is they learned to anticipate. I loved "Let's make a deal” for a special situation AHEAD of time since that meant they were willing to see things my way and try and negotiate against what they thought were going to be my objections.

It is HARD to raise responsible children who take ownership of outcomes instead of blaming others. They will make mistakes and you have to let them make those mistakes. And still punish them knowing you could have warned them. But I didn’t warn unless they asked me. And they did learn to ask me. Sometimes. :)

As they learn by owning the smaller decisions so they will apply that thinking and ownership as adults when larger decisions with larger consequences are made. They really complained when I agreed that the reason they messed up was beyond their control but they would still be punished. Very light punishment such as no TV for a night but still punished. That is because in the adult world, failure has consequences. And they need to get used to understanding that. By the time they were age 16 and driving, it was pretty much mostly natural consequences. They learned that while my love would be there no matter what, trust had to be earned. And trust earned meant they gained more control over decisions.

None of this has anything to do with my income level or “stuff” such as cell phones or PC's. Most important than any “method” of parenting are really the two rules to follow every day: love them equally whether they do right or do wrong and try to praise them more than criticize them. The time you will spend with them growing up is so short. Man it is so short. I love ‘em as adults but I still miss them being kids. As far as the whole spoiling and saying yes thing? Hey, that will be me as a Grandparent someday!

Well, I just had my most awkward moment in my life. I was out working in our yard, and two rather large women, one older and one who looked about 25 or so, were walking by and started asking my about our pond and the fish in the pond. Next thing they are telling me how they want to open an exotic restaraunt together, blah blah blah... After about 10 minutes, I asked them if they were "partners". After a quiet moment, the older woman says "This is my son".

True story.

Thank God my Mom wasn't like that. If I'd asked her or my Dad for a $1600 dollar computer, they'd probably give me some diplomatic version of "F*** you!" or "Get A Job (TM)!" And I'm grateful for it. People can be screwed up enough without there parents contributing to the problem.

> True story.

Sometimes one can find comfort from the day's intrusions in a glass of red wine.

Just sayin'.

There's a balance. You don't want to be always depicting teens as snarky obnoxious rebels, that's no good either.

The recent WSJ article , “How Parents Became Cool: TV Finds Teens Like Their Moms and Attempts to Flatter Both,” (April 29, 2010) relates a shift in television programming and viewing to what the authors consider a major change in relationships between parents and their adolescent children. Rather than parental control on one side of the generational divide, and teenage rebellion on the other, the authors contend, we now have intimacy, permission, praise, and sharing. Parents and children stay connected through technology and bond by wearing the same J. Crew styles, placing the same orders at Starbucks, and enjoying together the delights of yoga or a sushi bar.

These high-end recreations are dead giveaways as to just which parents are being described. To be sure, elite parents do watch television with their children, stay in touch by texting, reward their children’s every effort and involve themselves in the minutiae of their children’s lives. And, to be sure, these links remain firm even when their children leave the nest for college. The privileged students at Middlebury College communicate with their parents more than ten times per week, mutually desired contacts which are initiated relatively equally by the students and their parents. But my study of a broader socio-economic range of parents (Parenting Out of Control: Anxious Families in Uncertain Times, 2010) revealed vivid class differences in parenting styles. If the elite can be described as “helicopter parents,” those with fewer resources follow a very different parenting style. The don’t say yes all the time; they use technologies of connection to make sure their children are where they are supposed to be rather than to share the latest intimacy; they block television programs they find offensive; and they place filters on computers to control access to the internet. In short, they place clear limits on their children’s activities. In a context of limited resources of time and money, anxieties about just what to order at Starbucks and how to feel okay about a loss at soccer give way to worries about how to keep children safe and how to make ends meet.

If the article gets it right with respect to some aspects of an upper middle-class style of “helicopter parenting,” it also utterly misleads. Intimacy, permission, praise and sharing do not mean that these elite parents “tend to avoid exerting parental control.” To the contrary: these are new, and intense, mechanisms of management and manipulation. Take all this watching television together -- the centerpiece of the article. One upper middle class mother I interviewed was explicit about why she engaged in this practice: by watching with her children, she said, she could “project [her] values on them” and explain and interpret the characters’ words and behavior. Shared television viewing becomes a way to gain access to what it is that children think and feel, enabling ongoing, personalized control. Parents who are grooming their children to gain admission to selective colleges and to be winners in the race to the top feel a need for this sort of intimate control. Small wonder that these same children, subsequently, phone home to get parental approval for course selection in college, send assignments home to be edited by their fathers, and share the details of their latest romance with their mothers.

All parents want what’s best for their children, and all parents want to mold their children. Under the guise of sharing and intimacy, the intensive parenting strategy of the elite offers special opportunities to monitor, intervene in, and promote children’s progress. Elite parents have not relinquished the parental role, however much they act like their children’s buddies. They are buddies with agendas. And characterizing all parents as if they follow the practices of the elite ignores the very real and very different struggles of those more numerous but less visible parents a step or two down the socio-economic ladder.

Margaret K. Nelson
Middlebury, VT 05753

Margaret Nelson teaches at Middlebury College in Vermont. She is the author of Parenting Out of Control: Anxious Parents in Uncertain Times (NYU Press, 2010).

Too much involvement in my kids' lives makes them more dependent on me. I want them to be independent and live their lives for themselves, and to be able to make decisions about their lives on their own, without my intervention. That, to me, is much more healthy for them than to have them call me at every step of every turn they take. Some input is fine; too much is too much. And I really don't need to know "the details of their latest romance". As long as it isn't an abusive relationship, I don't want to know how many times a week they're intimate. It's none of my business, just like it's none of my business how many times my own parents are intimate. Too much closeness isn't mentally or emotionally healthy. Adults don't need mommy's approval, or daddy's editing. They need to figure those things out for themselves. Otherwise, they can't funciton properly in an adult world.

Okay, so this past weekend my husband and I had one of our get-away weekends where we get a motel room for a night and spend the day in the city and away from the dozen parrots and whatnot.
The nice hotel we stayed at was hosting a local prom. I witnessed many of these teenagers entering with their parents wearing jeans while their mother's carried their formalwear wrapped in plastic. They would ride the elevator to a room that I can only assume was purchased by the parent(s). I wonder what these parents did while they went on to prom. Did they go with their kids? I found this completely bizarre that they would even be in the same building instead of living their own lives. Is it normal for parents to go to prom with their kids?

That's just a little creepy, Cat. I've actually seen that, too, with the mothers attending all sorts of events with their daughters. Kind of like watered-down pageant moms. I mean, my mom helped me get ready for prom, but in the privacy of our home. I can only imagine the response I would have gotten had I asked her to come with me. And I can assure you that none of us were wishing our parents were there with us. Why would a teenager at a dance want her mother there, anyway? Some of my friends had pretty cool parents, but we didn't want to be our usual teenage girl selves with them standing right there for an entire night. And even the cool parents didn't want to be hanging out with teenagers, even if they were chaperons, in which case they tried to stay out of the way as much as possible. I can't help but think of a twenty-something woman interviewing for a job with her mommy sitting next to her.

Say, Crella: Did youever check out Dr. John Rosemond's books, since you said you might?

I liked all those here who pointed out that being a good parent doesn't have to mean being an icy, unsympathetic authority figure, per se. Rosemond admitted this too, but only once, I think. (I wish he'd also admit that you can't call yourself a truly loving parent - not in the U.S., anyway - if you're unemotional to the point of never hugging your kids. That, after all, is what drives many a teen girl into premarital sex and teen motherhood.)