There's another "mine" in the system, just waiting to be set off.

Next year, employers have to include the value of the health care they provide on the W-2 for their employees. If this is actually counted as income at any time (there is indication it won't until some time later), it will automatically disqualify the worker for food stamps and the Earned Income Credit. This would remove a couple of million people from those programs. Oh, you want to feed the family, and you can't feed them the door to the doctor's office? Too bad!

On a related note: you should worry about an economy when the government runs advertising - yes, advertising - to promote bank accounts based on the existence of the FDIC, and to promote application for the Earned Income Credit. The latter's spiel in the Southeast tells people how much they can get, and that the EIC "... is for working people like us who don't make a lot of money," in the words of one character.

If there is a government official reading this blog, you, sir or madam, are an idiot who needs an education and a good thrashing, not necessarily in that order.

Here in Iowa, the Principal Financial Group just laid off 1,500 people because they aren't going to offer child-only coverage anymore. But not to worry. Wells Fargo Home Mortgage is so backlogged with foreclosures, they are actually hiring. Signs of the times.

"Here in Iowa, the Principal Financial Group just laid off 1,500 people because they aren't going to offer child-only coverage anymore."

I can argue that they shouldn't have been hired in the first place. Not out of malice, but because the idea of "insurance" is fatally flawed in its implementation. Why should those 1500 people's wages add to the cost of health care?

Under this plan, they wouldn't.

All these exceptions that are being and will be granted under Obamacare are identical in substance to all the carveouts given to the privileged few who are party members or otherwise favored, done under the Nazis, in communist regimes, and in dozens of banana republics and kleptocracies around the world.

But when we pointed out that violations of equal protection under the law, like this, would be one of the inevitable results of such an economically unfeasible government grab of a major portion of the economy, we were branded as racist right-wing obstructionists. I'd love to say we're getting the last laugh, but the truth is, under this "reform", no one gets the last laugh. Except maybe government employees and unions -- and of course our superiors in the privileged class.

CPA hit it absolutely; this is all about unelected bureaucrats/czars having the authority to pick market winners and losers. Typically, large companies donate to both candidates in a major election; it's a form of protection money. This is why. I wonder if Koch Industries has any of its employees under a mini-med plan.

James Madison About Our Recession and political situation.
10/07/10 - Clayton Cramer's Blog [edited excerpts]

James Madison was a Founding Father of the US. In 1788 he published Federalist No.62 about the effect of bad law on the people, their freedom, and their investment in the future.

There are TV shows about how Nostradamus supposedly predicted the future. James Madison and the Founders knew about people and politics, and truly has described the future.

•  About the 2700 page health care bill:
It won't matter that the laws are made by men chosen by the people, if the laws be so voluminous or incoherent that they cannot be read or understood; if the laws be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man can guess what they will be tomorrow.

•  Why George Soros supports Democrats:
Public instability gives an unreasonable advantage to the sagacious, the enterprising, and the moneyed few over the industrious mass of the people. Every new regulation concerning commerce, revenue, or property presents a new harvest to those who watch the change, and can trace its consequences. Such laws are made for the few, not for the many.

•  Why employers won't hire right now:
What prudent merchant will risk his fortunes in new commerce when his plans may be rendered unlawful before they can be executed? What farmer or manufacturer will invest if he may be a victim to an inconstant government?

AMG:  Government, political tricks, and the desire for power have not changed much in 222 years. Our founding fathers knew this. That is why there is a Constitution. The Constitution is being ignored, and we are living in a tyranny.

If Obama worked and managed to get the health care bill repealed and promised not to meddle in the economy anymore, the economy might have a chance to get back on its feet.

I woiuld think that some coverage was better than no covereage. WHen our premiums went to almost $2,000 per month almost 20 years ago, I asked about a policy with a $50,000 deductable since we had thalt much in the bank and I felt like our insurance with a deductable had so many gaps as to be almost impossible to collect on, and I was told that it was illegal.

It seems as though with insurance, you are meant to be the loser. I guess somebody has to make a living.

I can argue that they shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

I agree with you, up to a point. However, with any insurance program, you need the services of actuaries to determine pricing. You also need a few people to answer the phones when customers call with questions. You need someone to keep up with all the rate and form filings, since insurance is regulated at the state level. You need people to market and sell your product. And someone has to be there to pay the bills, pay the employees, cut the claim payment checks, and make sure the deposits get to the bank and the books are kept.

I really like your card idea, though.

I see a whole lot of dismay about the health care bill but not a whole lot of concern about the people that can't afford health care. Something has to be done, and giving examples of why this won't work does nothing to help. How about coming up with something that will work and actually help someone else.

Something has to be done, and giving examples of why this won't work does nothing to help. How about coming up with something that will work and actually help someone else.

You must be a Democrat. That's the only way you could possibly think that alternatives have never been offered. Many have. But since they neither increase government power nor offer opportunities for graft, they were dismissed out of hand by the presently ruling party in Congress.

And why should I be burdened with coming up with "something that will work and actually help someone else"? How did everyone else become MY responsibility?

Also: What Amy said.

The plan for better and cheaper medical care for everyone, including the poor, is the same plan that has produced a society so wealthy that the poor now have TV's and air conditioners. Get the government out of the management of healthcare. Government reporting requirements and rules are directly draining money from health care services (high costs), and government rules for supposedly saving money are preventing better procedures from developing.

For example, Medicare does not reimburse an email or phone contact with your doctor. So, doctors usually will not provide this type of service. They also will not take the legal risk of giving fast, cheap, and usually correct advice, but with a slightly higher risk of missing something. I don't say that the usual contact with a doctor should be by email, but it would be quite efficient for some part of doctor-patient interactions.

I reject the notion of "Mother Theresa with a gun". At least one thing worse than poverty is for a group of people (even a majority) to point a gun at the rest of the people and demand money, even for a charitable purpose.

This is immoral, even if it would work long term. But, it doesn't work long term, because people naturally don't like being extorted. You end up with Cuban or British health care. Everyone has the same, lousy health care, except for the first among equals, the politicians and the connected, and those with enough money to buy good health care at any cost. That doesn't solve the "health care problem", but it does support a tyrannical government.

Check out → Annals of Government Medicine for some articles on how British health care "for all" is working out. Ironically and tragically, the British health service NHS is presented by Team Obama as an example for all of us to follow in "reforming" the US healthcare system.

I see a whole lot of dismay about the health care bill

There is alot to be dismayed about

but not a whole lot of concern about the people that can't afford health care.

liar

Something has to be done,

What then?

and giving examples of why this won't work does nothing to help.

Sure it does, it gets the bad ideas out of the way and pervents wasting money that might be used to acctually help

How about coming up with something that will work and actually help someone else.
Posted by: D

So, why didnt you suggest anything right now? After all pointing out how our thoughts on how this wont work doesnt really solve anything either.