There Are In Men In Bigger Trouble Than The Marital Kind Over The Ashley Madison Leak
On Alternet, Adam Johnson writes:
The Ashley Madison leaks, as many observers began noting yesterday afternoon, will have real world, devastating consequences on thousands of users worldwide. When the dust clears, it will be most vulnerable among us -- LGBT and women in repressive countries -- that will ultimately pay the price. And unlike Josh Duggar, their price will not be paid in snarky internet comments but rather loss of employment, family, and, in some cases, possibly their lives.
As one anonymous gay man in Saudi Arabia noted on reddit after the leak was exposed last month:
I May Get Stoned to Death for Gay Sex (Gay Man from Saudi Arabia Who Used Ashley Madison for Hookups)I am from a country where homosexuality carries the death penalty. I studied in America the last several years and used Ashley Madison during that time. (For those of you who haven't been following the story, Ashley Madison has been hacked and its users' names and addresses are on the verge of being exposed.) I was single, but used it because I am gay; gay sex is punishable by death in my home country so I wanted to keep my hookups extremely discreet. I only used AM to hook up with single guys.
Most of you are Westerners in countries that are relatively liberal on LGBT issues. For those of you who are older--try to think back to a time 10 or 20 years again when homosexuality was intensely stigmatized. Multiply that horrible feeling of stigma by a million, and add the threat of beheading/stoning. That's why I used AM to have discreet encounters.
I BEG you all to spread this message. Perhaps the hackers will take notice of it, and then, I can tell them to (at the very least) exercise discretion in their information dump (i.e. leave the single gay arab guy out of it). As of now, I plan on leaving the Kingdom and never returning once I have the $ for a plane ticket. Though I have no place to go, no real friends, and no job.
UPDATE: I have gotten enough money to get car to Riyadh and a plane ticket to the US. I got a PM from a redditor who is in the Kingdom and a paralegal at a a major US law firm with an office in Riyadh (I will be traveling there this weekend). The firm's has a big pro bono practice that specializes in refugees! And it is very pro LGBT; tor he redditis going to arrange for me to meet with an associate to explain my association. It appears I'm in good hands. I will let you all know more soon! It looks like I'll be out of here in a few days with a concrete plan of action.
UPDATE: A bunch of people are accusing me of lying because 'AM is only for married people.' AM is actually about "discreet hookups," and hence its main appeal is to married people, since premarital sex isn't stigmatized in the West. But it also appeals to gays from regressive cultures, and their website has an option specifically for gays, as you can figure out if you do 5 minutes of research.
The idiots who claim I'm lying are projecting from personal experience, and forgetting that, for many gay people around the world, being outed is a life-threatening experience. The risks for us are greater than the risks for married Westerners cheating on their spouses. That's why AM's promise of discretion appeals to us. (Seriously, you think that there are no gay Muslims on there out of 37 million users?) In any case, that people would accuse me of being a liar on the basis of no evidence--at a time when I stand a serious chance of being tortured, murdered, or exiled--makes me pessimistic about humanity.
Also, a warning on Internet "privacy," which is -- as it's always been -- tenuous. As I write in "Good Manners for Nice People Who Sometimes Say F*ck," "You're only anonymous on the Internet because nobody's tried very hard to figure out who you are."
The Ashley Madison hackers remind me of The Journal News that published the lists of registered gun owners in New York - with an online interactive map showing where they lived!
Their plan was to somehow or other "shame" gun owners. They didn't think things through in that criminals would also use it to find where the cop who busted them lives. They didn't think things through in that women hiding from an abusive ex would use it to find her.
I suspect that is because the reporter/editor at The Journal News live in a bubble and don't see the rest of the world.
Just like the idiots at that The Journal News, these hackers thought they were superior than others and wanted to "shame" them.
Just like the idiots at The Journal News the hackers live in a bubble and don't realize that people will be hurt (and die) because of their selfish actions.
One sentence that the hackers published stood out at me in showing how naïve they are, I've highlighted below:
"Find yourself in here? It was ALM that failed you and lied to you. Prosecute them and claim damages. Then move on with your life. Learn your lesson and make amends. Embarrassing now, but you'll get over it."
It is that "You'll get over it." that shows how full of themselves and naive the "Impact Team" is.
I hope someone turns around and sues them.
In the very least the "Impact team" (and who the hell calls themselves that anyway?) needs to read The Scarlet Letter before they cast judgment on others.
charles at August 21, 2015 8:44 AM
Due to Reddit's demographics (white suburban male nerds under 30) they have this weird over reaction to cheating (and under reaction and acceptance to things like pedophilia.)
It was an interesting thing to see. People like to call themselves champions of privacy (no matter the political affiliation) but once that privacy is breached for someone they find morally reprehensible they kinda shrug their shoulders and scream too bad, so sad, you're a horrible human being who deserves it.
For most people cheating is a mistake like any other and for many couples an arrangement that is quietly done without acknowledgement.
In indiscriminately punishing the guilty you punish the innocent too.
Oh and I think that Saudi guy is full of shit and a troll. Gay sex is common among Saudis (due to the segregation of the sexes). He's just playing up a trope.
Ppen at August 21, 2015 8:50 AM
Ppen,
You are right that there are a lot of gay relationships in Saudi Arabia. But the key is to keep it quiet. When it becomes public knowledge the participants are killed.
Saving face is a huge part of Arab cultures. This fellow is really not at risk for gay sex. He is at risk for embarrassing his family. By being outed in a very public way his life is in danger.
Ben at August 21, 2015 9:06 AM
Ppen, getting outed in a public way in an Arab country may result in your head coming away from neck in a sudden, violent way.
Otherwise they might hang you from a handy crane (Iran).
Or stone you to death or being tossed from a roof (ISIS).
I R A Darth Aggie at August 21, 2015 9:55 AM
I'd imagine some Americans will also end up murdered over what's revealed by the AM leak- Not necessarily gay people, just normal cheaters.
I'll admit that I have a morbid curiosity as to whether anyone I know is on there.
ahw at August 21, 2015 10:55 AM
Doubtless this will discourage anyone from trusting any internet service that promises to protect your identity. What the service views as an obligation, hackers will view as a challenge. And one that they won't walk away from.
And Ppen, Ben and I R A Darth Aggie are quite right. No one is disputing that there is a ton of gay sexual activity (and a ton of homosexual pedophilia) in Arab countries. They will still kill you if they find out about it.
Patrick at August 21, 2015 12:41 PM
Further... There are probably a lot of people who, anticipating that this would happen someday, signed up for Ashley Madison using other people's identities.
Cousin Dave at August 21, 2015 1:35 PM
I can't feel too much over this. If you live someplace where an action can get you killed, and then commit the action...well, you knew the risks, didn't you? The risk that nothing on the internet is private, the risk that the wrong person might peek in a window or under a bathroom stall door at you, the risk your partner might blackmail you...Maybe, when enough people in these countries are threatened with death, they might fore through some change, and the countries will improve, incrementally. That's how social change tends to happen, right?
momof4 at August 21, 2015 1:41 PM
It is also significant that AM promised discretion and then kept logs of everything that happened. Makes you wonder what AM was planning to do with all that old data.
Ben at August 21, 2015 1:54 PM
"Makes you wonder what AM was planning to do with all that old data."
Oh, nothing... nothing at all I'm sure.
I'd have more sympathy for the Ashley Madison users and company if they weren't marketing their service as pro-cheating. Also anyone who actually used their real names or emails is lazy, stupid, arrogant or all three.
Cash for a burner phone, pre-paid credit card, create a temp email and you've created a basic layer of privacy for under $50. The reddit story could be legit but in today's nigerian email scam world, I've got my doubts and honestly don't care.
Sio at August 21, 2015 2:46 PM
Ppen, Ben and I R A Darth Aggie are quite right. No one is disputing that there is a ton of gay sexual activity (and a ton of homosexual pedophilia) in Arab countries. They will still kill you if they find out about it.
Posted by: Patrick at August 21, 2015 12:41 PM
It has been my perception that laws in Arab countries are for the convenience of the rulers.
If you are someone important, and connected, you get away with it, if you aren't, and you are not protected or politically useful, it is a convenient excuse to hang you from the lamp post.
In other words, it doesn't matter, what you do. The only thing that matters, is who you are.
If it wasn't for selective enforcement, there would be no enforcement at all.
A lot of unwitting ninnys would like to see this same sort of Justice in the U.S.
Isab at August 21, 2015 3:51 PM
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