While it's true, as someone hinted in the Reason comments, that an 11-year-old SHOULD not need a babysitter in public, it's perfectly possible that this isn't actually about child protection, it's about too many minors of ALL ages causing havoc, damage...and theft.

Remember the library policy in Beaverton, Oregon, also featured in Reason?

http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2016/11/08/linkakeet_2.html

Also in that thread, from a letter to Ann Landers in 1991 (by a hotel worker):

" 'Montana' said it was unfair to allow a few bad apples to spoil the barrel. I agree. But when the majority of problems are caused by people under 25, the hotel must take whatever steps are necessary to save its reputation, not to mention the business itself. This means we have to keep the troublemakers out. The only way to do it was to raise the age limit, which we did. By the way, we noticed that the people who got upset about the age limit being raised were the very ones who caused the trouble to begin with. We know because we kept a list."

As kids, not only were we allowed to split away from our mother in the mall to go to the toy store or the pet store while she shopped, we were allowed to ride our bikes to the mall without her. How did we ever survive?

Ahh Tel-Twelve mall. That brings back memories...

In the 1950s-1960s, I could go as far as I was able to ride my bike or take a bus. So age 12 I was taking the bus to the YMCA to play pool, swim, take classes. Parents nowhere in sight. Age 13 I was miles away bowling with friends. Even age 10 we left the house in the morning and came home only to eat.
Idiocy.

If you don't want unattended children in your store, post a sign and tell them to mind the sign unless a parent or guardian is with them. Or, as Arhnold would say, get out.

If they won't leave voluntarily, then tell them you're going to call the cops and swear a trespass warrant against them. They won't be arrested then, but if they're smart, you don't come back.

Was the child causing a problem? I also find it interesting that a 16 year old is not allowed to enter the Lego store without a parent or guardian. (No one under 18 is apparently the rule)

The real issue seems to be what Lenona alludes to, you often can't legally get rid of the bad actors. Everyone has to be treated as a class or group. So one or two hooligans can ruin things for anyone who remotely resembles them. I view this as a flaw in the law.

you often can't legally get rid of the bad actors

You can. But it is time consuming, in that you will need to swear out a trespass warrant against the offender with your local police.

There maybe additional problems if the offender is a juvenile. Taken together, it maybe easier to just say "no one under 18 without parent or guardian" than deal with multiple offenders on different days.

There are creative ways to deal with bad apples...

At the intersection of Alafaya Trail and SR520, east of Orlando, FL, a bar noticed it was having huge problems with rednecks hitting on the college girls. Said girl would say, "Eww!" to the four teeth talking to her and the redneck would hit the nearest guy, thinking correctly that the college guy wouldn't know how to fight. But the college kids had money - and DIDN'T fight.
The solution was simple: a sign with foot-high letters appeared outside, readable from the highway: NO HATS.

"What kind of pussy society have we become that we not only have (presumably) armed guards in the Lego store but we call the cops when a kid is looking around at a bunch of colorful pieces of plastic in this environment without his mother standing guard feet away with an Uzi?"

It's even worse than that, the same people who insist on this over-protection also insist that the mother is incapable of using a weapon to defend her child or herself. So, the parent must always be present, but the only allowed course of action is to call 911 and hope the police show up before any harm is done.

I never shopped alone at the Lego store in the mall when I was a child.

That's because there weren't Lego stores in the mall when I was a child. But I'm pretty sure by the age of 10 I was splitting off from my mother ("Meet in front of the B.Dalton's at 2:00." And, yes, I had a watch.) and browsing the mall bookstores, and maybe even the one that sold knives and ninja throwing stars and other sharp objects. (I don't think the ninja store came along until I was 14 or so, though.)

On a totally unrelated note, I know we have Amazon and B&N and I have access to used book stores now...but in a way, I really kind of miss the B.Dalton and WaldenBooks in the malls.

We could end this insanity by arming the children.

The real issue seems to be what Lenona alludes to, you often can't legally get rid of the bad actors.
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There's another problem too. If white kids know they're not going to be stalked by the store clerks, it makes it all the easier for THEM to steal things and get away with it - especially if the clerk is already distracted by a non-white kid. In the meantime, non-white law-abiding individual kids get stalked over and over. In 1994, Miss Manners (in a rare change of heart, regarding children's rights) finally gave teens the right to fend off hostile adults by saying "hello, I'm one of your regular customers."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1994/09/04/new-fears-old-etiquette/7e1b4422-d077-444e-b20e-e0d64944d20f/?utm_term=.caaf1fdaacc7

(Of course, if a clerk has a decent memory for faces and is not brand new, this remark will only work if the teen is telling the truth.)

That does not, unfortunately, change the fact that sometimes, to stay in business, a store has no choice but to resort to the last form of discrimination that's likely to stay legal.

Not to mention, of course, the fact that if white kids never get shadowed in a certain store, those who do get followed will eventually give the store very bad publicity - if only on Yelp. But it could easily get worse.

And now you had to make up some racist crap Lenona?

People are not asking the right question! What are they selling in that part of the Lego store- the build-a-brothel-kit?

Meh.

1) Too many parents let stores or malls act as de facto babysitters.

2) Too many parents wrap their children in metaphorical cottonwool.

3) Not enough parents raise self-sufficient young people who can shop or browse without reaching the magic age of 16 or 18.

It's impossible to know which is the case here, but arresting the parent is pretty harsh barley in any case, as long as the youngster wasn't creating havoc.

When I was 10 I had a paper route in Toledo. Delivered papers and collected the money.

Ben, are you accusing Miss Manners of making things up too? You really think clerks never discriminate? Or that white clerks often can't be bothered to remember the faces of their regular black customers - or that clerks, in general, don't remember regular child/teen customers in general?

And in case you didn't notice, I DID point out that white kids steal too, not just black kids. What's your point?

In all fairness, however, SOME parents might sue and accuse the store of profiling (race isn't the only way to profile, of course) - and whether the charge is true or not, the store probably can't afford the bad publicity.

From the thread I linked to:

Robert|11.7.16 @ 11:44AM|#
"That's probably what it is, along w a desire to avoid political or legal consequences for judgmentally identifying certain kids or families as the troublemakers. So they have a rule they can enforce just as selectively, but with deniability, because nobody's going to complain about NOT being kicked out; this way if they ARE kicked out, the law is on the side of the kickers-out."

Me: Of course, the staff probably also did some math on the question of whether they can afford even one lawsuit in the upcoming year, whether it's about an accident, a pedophile, or accusations of racism - whether the accusations are true or false. If they can't afford it, what else are they supposed to do?

My point is that what you wrote is crap and racist crap at that Lenona. And your defense is crap too. Do bigoted clerks act poorly and inefficiently, sure. So what. There are also clerks who shadow the white kids in abercrombie to make sure they don't steal. And there are also the clerks who ignore everything and just barely do their jobs. Using the cop out of 'never' doesn't excuse the poor logic and bigotry. Who cares if there is one racist store clerk in America? Who cares if there are two? Using never as your standard is worthless.

And posing your claim as a question ("... if white kids never get shadowed ...") is also crap. If you want to make that claim make it. Don't try to weasel around with a did I say it or maybe I didn't say it.

My point is that what you wrote is crap and racist crap at that Lenona.

Hey now, usually she posts sexist crap, lets give her a hand for trying something new

The other huge change I’ve seen in my lifetime.. the complete clusterfuck the elementary school in my neighborhood is every day at drop off and pick up times. The students likely all live within just a few blocks at most, yet nearly every one is driven to and from. We used to walk or ride bikes and only ever got a ride if it was pouring down rain. It was a bit further for us too, because we went to the private school after my first half year in kindergarten.

"The students likely all live within just a few blocks at most, yet nearly every one is driven to and from."

I've observed the same. A high school in town is moving to a new campus, across a major highway from the neighborhoods that it serves. The city is spending all kinds of money on accommodations such that pedestrians and bicycle riders will be able to cross under the highway at an overpass. I'll be watching to see how much these actually get used.

You would shriek wildly and call police to lock down the neighborhood if my 13-year-old self visited you today.

Bicycle assembled from various parts (but a German Schwinn), sneakers, cutoff jeans, Polaroid sunglasses, ballcap - and Pop's USMC sheath knife, obvious from a couple of hundred feet away. In baseball season it was replaced with bat and glove. I could enter any business, ride any street and knew the local deputies by sight if not name. This wasn't hicksville - Kennedy Space Center was less than 10 miles north.

I had already been working on boats with Pop for three years. Worried about a kid riding a bicycle? How about a 12-year-old doing 30 knots in a Chris-Craft on the Intracoastal Waterway?

Then the '70s arrived, and it became your fault a trespasser hurt himself on your property. Things went downhill from there, and as you can see, no bottom is in sight. Everyone has bought fear, and it is expected that every stranger will steal from, hurt, rape and/or kill you.

You didn't answer my question about MM.

Maybe I should have asked "you really think white clerks don't frequently discriminate?"

I think it's relevant that black teens AND black adults complain frequently about being treated like would-be thieves and vandals, but when there's an official policy against the presence of teens in general, you don't typically see teens protesting that loudly or forming organizations against it. Maybe that's because average teens sense, at least, that a young generic person is more likely to steal than a black ADULT, and so they sympathize?

Because I don't give two figs about MM, Lenona. And fine, you live in a racist hell hole. Last I recall it was New York. I don't live there so I won't defend the people of New York from your claims they are generally racist and bigoted.

Rad, I wonder if we fixed that trespasser issue how many of these other issues would get fixed. There was a Walmart around here with an old rusty sign by the road. So a guy started hanging out under the dangerous sign waiting for it to fall on him. After three day Walmart called the cops and had him arrested. But people engaging in risky behavior just so they can sue someone is a far too common occurrence.

No, I don't live in New York. No, I wasn't referring to where I do live. Just the US in general.

I simply haven't heard any complaints of white ADULTS complaining about being unfairly shadowed by clerks of any color (but looking and smelling like a homeless person would certainly be a fair provocation to shadow that person), whereas black adults - such as journalist Lena Williams - will often complain that if they don't dress to the nines whenever they go shopping, they get no more trust or respect than a teen or a homeless person.

How is it racist to point out that black adults often (typically?) get treated that way while white adults don't?

And since teens are more notorious for stealing, if we make it too easy for white teens to steal, that's what will happen. That's why I mentioned "individuals" in my July 5, 2017 2:26 PM post - I certainly wasn't suggesting that black teens don't steal just as much.

"No, I wasn't referring to where I do live. Just the US in general."

Fine. Your wrong.

Learn to punctuate - and spell.

And I notice you didn't comment on the rest of the post.