Hmm. . . My brother is an avowed feminist--and twice divorced.

On the other hand, I'm not a feminist, and also twice divorced. But my marriages lasted longer than his did.

These are the guys who think that everything should be equal, even parental leave. Either paternity leave should be 6 weeks longs or there should be no maternity leave.

I actually heard men argue for no maternity leave to keep things equal. Are we supposed to skip the hospital and try to have the baby on our lunch hour?

Hm. I don't see that as a great mating strategy.

Treat me well. Listen to me as a sentient and intelligent human being, and take care of me when I need it such as after childbirth and we can get along.

An ultra feminist who will never take care of me will not win my heart. Neither will the macho man who "knows what you want more than you know yourself."

Vichy males.

If anyone wants to read the whole post, here's the link:

http://www.thewrap.com/joss-whedon-feminist-hypocrite-infidelity-affairs-ex-wife-kai-cole-says/

Jen,

Anyone who would argue that women do not need time to handle the medical aspects of birth are not being rational and I suspect there are not many of these folks.

On the other hand, people who argue that they would like to see equivalent bonding leave times between mothers and fathers (i.e., not medically indicated for mother or infant) can be placed into the same irrational catch-all bucket you have created.

Having two heavily involved parents is in fact a great mating strategy.

Jen: "I actually heard men argue for no maternity leave to keep things equal. Are we supposed to skip the hospital and try to have the baby on our lunch hour?... Hm. I don't see that as a great mating strategy."

"Lunch hour"? "Mating strategy"?. I can't tell if you're talking about work relationships or personal relationships; and whether you mean collectively or individually. Either way, I cannot disagree with you. A man will probably not persuade his coworkers to mate with him by telling them they should skip the hospital and try to have the babies on their lunch hour. It probably wouldn't work collectively or in a personal relationship either. Of course responsible use of birth control would make this irrelevant. And use condoms - be safe!

Jen: "Treat me well." If you're talking about work relationships, and treating you well doesn't include supporting your need for maternity leave or other personal needs not related to work, you should be treated well. And if you're talking about personal relationships, you should be treated well there also. But this is irrelevant to almost everybody else in the world.

Jen: "Listen to me as a sentient and intelligent human being" If that's what you are, and I presume it is, then of course.

I think I pretty much agree with you on all these points.

Everyone's dumping on Joss Whedon but have any of you stopped consider his perspective and ask if maybe, just maybe he was horny?

Jen: "Take care of me when I need it such as after childbirth and we can get along."

Now here is where we may have a difference of opinion. If you're talking about your relationship with an employer, coworkers and society in general, then this is the difference between a fragile, dependent feminist and a sentient, intelligent, independent human being.

Feminist: "Take care of me when I need it such as after childbirth and we can get along."

Sentient, intelligent, independent human being: "I'll be responsible for myself and my needs related to my own free choices, and be grateful for the help you freely offer, and in any case we'll continue to get along."

If getting along with you is contingent on taking care of you after childbirth, unless I had a role or a say in that childbirth, I don't want to get along with you.

"Take care of me and we'll get along." Holy crap. I've never heard a more unfeministic, male-dependent, female-inferior statement than that. I never taught my independent, well educated, successful, married-with-children daughters to think like that; and will never encourage my granddaughters to be that way. If I wanted a woman whose role was to stay home, clean house, take care of the kids and make me dinner (i.e. "Shake! Rattle! and roll!"), I might look for someone like you. But I'd never want that.

Where I work... and I assume this is true where most other people work too... we need all hands on deck all the time, including everyone of the 80% of my coworkers who are female. When someone is missing... for an hour, a day, or six weeks... there is a substantial increase in the burden, stress, hours of work and risk for the rest of us; and a decrease in efficiency, quality and safety - especially for our patients. My employer shouldn't hire people who need to take a lot of time off.

Jen: "An ultra feminist who will never take care of me will not win my heart. Neither will the macho man who 'knows what you want more than you know yourself'".

Ultra feminists who won't take care of you and macho men who "know what you want more than you know yourself", should be aware of this if they desire to win your heart. This is irrelevant to the rest of us.

I would enthusiastically encourage anyone who freely, willingly, and in agreement with you, chooses to support your need for maternity leave and bear the burden of your absence, to do so to their hearts content, at their own expense. The rest of us have our own lives and relationships, and needs of our own, and the needs of the people in our lives to take care of. Our needs are not your problem... nor any of your business. And yours are not ours.

Amy, your column that you linked to, “The Evolution Of Fun Names For Scientific Theories” reminded me of the term “hERG”, which stands for “human Ether-a-go-go-Related Gene”. I learned about the hERG a bunch of years ago while working on clinical research studies of drugs that have the potential to cause long QT syndrome.

The human Ether-a-go-go Related Gene codes for a protein that’s part of certain potassium ion channels that conduct potassium out of smooth muscle cells in the heart. The protein contributes to the electrical current that coordinates the timing of the heartbeat. A lot of drugs affect those potassium ion channels and can cause long QT syndrome, an arrhythmia that can be fatal.

It’s an amusing name for a gene and I wanted to know where it came from. I found out the gene was named back in the 1960s by William Kaplan, a neurogenetics researcher who worked at the City of Hope Hospital, which I think is in Duarte, CA. During his time off he liked to hang out at the Whiskey a Go Go nightclub in West Hollywood. He noticed that when fruit flies that have mutations in a certain gene are anesthetized with ether their legs wiggle. The way their legs wiggled reminded him of the dancers at the Whiskey a Go Go, so he named the human homolog of that gene the human Ether-a-go-go Related Gene. And that’s how the hERG got its name.

One of the problems is that people want someone to pay for their choices. Maternity leave is a fringe benefit. One can get it by choosing a company that chooses to offer it when looking for a job. One can get it by saving up your vacation and sick leave. One can get it by having a husband who will say yes, stay home and I'll pay for it. But too many people just expect that someone must pay for it just because you need it. Many men could use a long vacation but can't take it because they need the money (or spend their official vacation renovating the house). "I need it" is not a justification.

Jen: Treat me well.

Then treat others well.

I can't promise that everyone will treat you well if you treat them well, but I would certainly suggest you remove yourself from anyone who doesn't reciprocate.