Will The Trump Presidency Get Killed By His Response To Coronavirus?
Andrew Malcolm is not exactly a lefty. (He worked in the Bush White House as Press Sec for Laura Bush and was deputy communications manager from 1999-2001 for the Bush presidential campaign.)
He has a column up on Trump's recent low blows. The scene here is a White House press conference:
The president called on Peter Alexander, a reporter from NBC, the network that branded Trump as a national celebrity with 14 years as a prime-time reality TV host.This is a free country. In such settings, journalists should be allowed to ask any question at all, knowing they will in turn be judged on its quality or hostile stupidity.
Alexander began by asking about Trump's effusive recent praise for an unproven drug, then delivered an open-ended query most politicians can only dream of: "What do you say to Americans who are scared?" That's a perfectly legitimate question and an invitation to say anything he wants.
"I know Americans are scared. None of us have ever been through a pandemic like this as a nation. But we are a sturdy, resilient people. Americans can know that my administration and the respected experts here plus thousands of others across the country are working night and day to design an answer for this new virus, and as quickly as possible, a vaccine to prevent its return."
Trump could have said something like that. He didn't. Instead of a perfect opportunity to hail the earnest efforts of himself, Pence and experts, Trump lit into the reporter, calling it "a nasty question."
"I say you are a terrible reporter," Trump replied. "That's what I say." He added, "You're doing sensationalism. And the same with NBC and Comcast. I don't call it Comcast. I call it 'Con-Cast.'"
Media bashing is a go-to part of Trump's rhetorical repertoire. His solid base likely loves it, as they've liked the economy, millions of new jobs, tax cuts and soaring stock markets under Trump. But the virus and its accompanying shutdowns place all of that at risk now.
Trump fans like his fighting spirit. But this time, he blew a perfect chance to boast, accurately, choosing to punch when there was nothing to counter.
Then, at last Sunday's briefing, the subject of Sen. Mitt Romney in virus isolation came up. "Geeee," said the fellow Republican with gratuitous sarcasm, "that's too bad." Trump can't seem to help himself.
How likely do you think it it is that this will "help" him out of office -- rather than being granted another term?
Dr. Fauci discusses new lifesaving face mask: pic.twitter.com/Z41ZAfTkBn
— Sandy Wood (@SandySWood58) March 24, 2020
How likely do you think it it is that this will "help" him out of office -- rather than being granted another term?
Not in the least; everything he's done regarding COVID-19 has been precisely on brand.
I'd add that those Americans who may be wavering likely will fall like frightened dominos in his direction rather than change jackasses in midstream.
Kevin at March 24, 2020 10:53 PM
By fall we won't be in the middle anymore. If there isn't a new wave in October he will win.
NicoleK at March 24, 2020 11:52 PM
How likely do you think it it is that this will "help" him out of office -- rather than being granted another term?
It won't make any difference. Everyone knows Trump and the media are enemies. They've treated him like shit from the minute he first said he'd run for president. Everyone knows Trump enjoys trolling his rivals. He treats them almost as badly as they treat him. Why shouldn't he? It only bothers people who hate him; and it doesn't matter to people who admire him - most of them enjoy it as much as he does. And it doesn't make any difference to either one. If he didn't do it his haters would still hate him, and his admirers would still admire him. I enjoy it when Trump trolls his enemies.
Ken R at March 25, 2020 1:55 AM
Unlikely.
He's starting to appear presidential - despite the goofy memes and furious howling his opponents are throwing up on Twitter and Facebook. His daily briefings with scientists and medical experts flanking him were a good move. Polls show his approval ratings are moving upward.
As for governors like Cuomo whining that the federal government isn't giving them enough beds or ventilators, why wasn't the state more prepared for an emergency? New York suffers hurricanes, droughts, and tornadoes. Yet the state's emergency response, like that of too many states, seems to be to put a call in to FEMA for everything.
Pelosi's blatantly partisan move with the relief bill backfired and some of the blowback will negatively affect Joe Biden's stealth campaign for the office.
Franklin Roosevelt proved a president doesn't have to fix the crisis to be re-elected, but he does have to at least appear to be trying to do something about it. With campaign events and rallies shut down, Joe Biden needs to show himself doing something - e.g., packing supply boxes for shut-ins - and not spending his time hiding out and carping at everything Trump does.
Winston Churchill toured the damaged areas of London. Queen Elizabeth joined the motor corps. Ed Koch walked the streets of New York asking "how'm I doing?" Joe Biden flubbed a podcast. Not exactly leadership 101.
Barring a major mis-step by Trump, Biden's toast and Trump's in.
Conan the Grammarian at March 25, 2020 5:20 AM
Watch the full video. Alexander hounded Trump to admit that he was viewing this crisis through Panglossian goggles and giving false hope to Americans, even cutting off a fellow reporter to get yet another attempt in. Trump finally tired of answering the same question over and over from the same guy and blew up at Alexander. Perhaps not a wise move, but an understandable one.
It's being spun in edited video clips as an innocent question - and, perhaps, the first few times it was.
Alexander's "what, me?" gesture was just a little too precious. Yes, Peter, you.
Conan the Grammarian at March 25, 2020 5:26 AM
Conan Says:
"He's starting to appear presidential..."
It is high time you stopped grading this president like he is on a curve in the special education classroom.
Here are his statements and predictions regarding the coronavirus:
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/trumps-statements-about-the-coronavirus/
Nothing he has said or done here has been accurate or useful.
Feb. 26: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”
We are presently at >50,000 confirmed cases 1 month later.
I don't know about you, but 50,000 is many orders of magnitude larger than zero.
The emperor has no clothes Conan... it is time to open your eyes.
Artemis at March 25, 2020 6:43 AM
I was going to respond to the question of how likely Trump's coronavirus policy will cause him to be defeated in the next election, but several have already answered. I concur with Kevin, Ken R. and Conan.
Presidential reelection is about the economy and nothing (and I do mean nothing) else matters.
Still, it will be entertaining to see the Democrats wailing over the supposed injustice of it all. I wonder if there will be a Democratic equivalent to Bill Bennett's ever-so-sanctimonious screed, "The Death of Outrage."
Patrick at March 25, 2020 6:51 AM
I don't know about you, but 50,000 is many orders of magnitude larger than zero.
The emperor has no clothes Conan... it is time to open your eyes.
Artemis at March 25, 2020 6:43 AM
Bernie Bro Artemis has spoken, which means Trump will most likely win in a landslide.
Isab at March 25, 2020 6:52 AM
Isab Says:
"Bernie Bro Artemis has spoken, which means Trump will most likely win in a landslide."
Good grief Isab.
I am under no delusions that Trump could show up at your home and hand deliver your children's severed heads to you and you would still vote for him without reservation.
The cult like nature of his followers is very clear.
Two of his devotees just poisoned themselves consuming aquarium cleaner the other day.
While you are focused on elections in November I am focused on trying to keep old folks like you alive.
That is the fundamental difference between people like you and me.
The sad thing is that the people likely to be hurt the worst by his poor response are his own followers.
Artemis at March 25, 2020 6:57 AM
“I am under no delusions that Trump could show up at your home and hand deliver your children's severed heads to you and you would still vote for him without reservation.
The cult like nature of his followers is very clear.”
The democrats have attempted for the last 60 years to make every election about demonizing the republican nominee and republican voters. In 2016 it didn’t work (again), but they have no back up plan for 2020 and worse no candidate that anyone in their right mind would vote for.
You are not winning any supporters here Artemis, for Bernie, or anyone else. Politics is about providing people with viable alternatives to the status quo if you want to win. Instead the dems have doubled down on bat shit crazy and pork barrel.
Isab at March 25, 2020 7:53 AM
Oh.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/298313/president-trump-job-approval-rating.aspx
Who you gonna believe: the honorable, honest and beyond reproach media[*], or your lying eyes? and Nancy Pelosi is not exactly covering herself and the DNC in glory by porking up the relief package.
[*] https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnns-jake-tapper-under-fire-after-admitting-he-didnt-fact-check-aoc-on-trump-coronavirus-claim
I R A Darth Aggie at March 25, 2020 8:07 AM
It's high time you read entire posts and stop cherry-picking comments to squeeze into your assumptions. You have a serious issue with confirmation bias and you argue dishonestly, Artie. You decide the other person's position and are blind to nuance. That's why most of us ignore you and hold you in contempt.
Conan the Grammarian at March 25, 2020 8:32 AM
Isab Says:
"The democrats have attempted for the last 60 years to make every election about demonizing the republican nominee and republican voters."
Projection Isab. Criticizing differences in policy isn't the same as "demonizing" anyone. On the other hand the most recent democratic president was actually demonized by the political right as being a secret terrorist and non-citizen.
By the way, I haven't even mentioned Bernie here or in any discussion where he isn't specifically relevant... you have mentioned him multiple times in this thread alone.
Bernie has nothing to do with anything under discussion here. As I told you before, you are the only one with folks living rent free in your head. You are obsessed with folks who are irrelevant.
It is unlikely Bernie will be the democratic nominee so what is the point of even discussing him here?
"You are not winning any supporters here Artemis, for Bernie, or anyone else."
I don't expect to convert anyone here to sanity Isab.
I am simply pointing out the sheer stupidity of uncritically supporting anyone who could say the following a month ago:
Feb. 26: “I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.”
The guy literally said there were only 15 cases, that they would go to zero in a few days, and that the numbers were very substantially going down.
The reality is that since that time the numbers have gone up by a factor of more than 3000.
That isn't a slight rounding error Isab.
If you are incapable of calling Trump out for being grossly wrong on his analysis of the situation then you are living in a state of delusion.
Artemis at March 25, 2020 8:33 AM
Conan,
"It's high time you read entire posts and stop cherry-picking comments to squeeze into your assumptions."
What exactly about Trumps response has been "presidential"?
The guy's analysis of the situation was completely off base... he is wrong by more than a factor of 3000... and every day his analysis becomes more and more wrong.
If being a complete and utter ignoramus is your working definition of "presidential" then we simply disagree on what it means to be an effective executive.
Artemis at March 25, 2020 8:36 AM
It's high time you read entire posts and stop cherry-picking comments to squeeze into your assumptions. You have a serious issue with confirmation bias and you argue dishonestly, Artie. You decide the other person's position and are blind to nuance. That's why most of us ignore you and hold you in contempt.
Conan the Grammarian at March 25, 2020 8:32 AM
Now, now Conan, Artemis is providing a public service on these boards. He is showing us exactly what passes for logic and education in undergrad and graduate University programs in the western world. Read it, and weep.
Isab at March 25, 2020 8:46 AM
Isab's "autism" theorem has collected a lot of new evidence in recent months.
But even if it proves out, I'll always believe "childhood institutionalization" was an important component of what we're seeing here.
Crid at March 25, 2020 8:53 AM
Isab,
This isn't a difficult concept and doesn't require a university education to understand.
60,000 > 15
You should have learned this in elementary school.
Artemis at March 25, 2020 8:57 AM
More media malfeasance. Emphasis mine.
https://twitter.com/omriceren/status/1242279158681665537
Iowahawk advocates for building a wall.
https://twitter.com/zossima312/status/1242598902043467778
I R A Darth Aggie at March 25, 2020 9:16 AM
Meanwhile, here's an "expert". Is this person someone we should trust, Artie?
https://twitter.com/NYCHealthCommr/status/1226508570646269954
What would we do without experts?
I R A Darth Aggie at March 25, 2020 9:19 AM
One more, and I'll let it go. But these are very astute questions, and they should be answered.
http://minx.cc:1080/?post=386505
I R A Darth Aggie at March 25, 2020 9:22 AM
About a lot of things, Artie.
You're blinded in by your own bias here - looking at the situation as you want it to be and not as it is.
Politics does not mean having all the answers or being analytical. It's perception. That's why people like Bernie and Lizzie, who say stupid things like "the money's always there" or "tax the rich" when asked how they'll pay for trillion-dollar giveaway programs, get re-elected.
Trump doesn't have to have the numbers exactly right - or even close to right - he has to convey the optimism that the voters want from him right now. People not weighed down by partisan bias know this situation is unprecedented.
Name one president who failed to connect with the public in a crisis and got re-elected.
Hoover? He was good with numbers (trained as a mining engineer), but was defeated after one term when people were not re-assured by his bean-counting public persona. Despite implementing programs that were precursors to Roosevelt's, Hoover was perceived as not having any idea of what to do. He failed to connect with people, "...emotional life just wasn’t his métier." Roosevelt, on the other hand, was an optimist ("The only thing we have to fear....") and used Fireside Chats to connect with struggling Americans (kinda like Trump's using his daily briefings), telling them that we were all in this together, and that we would come out of the crisis in good order.
Did candidate Roosevelt have a solution to the Great Depression? No. He pulled numbers and solutions out of his ass. President Roosevelt actually made the Great Depression worse, but people perceived he was solving the problem and re-elected him [read Amity Shlaes - The Forgotten Man].
Carter? He was pretty analytical (USNA graduate and nuclear engineer), but also a micro-manager who was defeated after one term. Carter was perceived as being in way over his head with inflation, the energy crisis, and foreign affairs (e.g., the Iran hostage crisis). His "malaise" speech made him appear defeatist and sealed his doom. Reagan's "morning in America" optimism blew Carter's "malaise" out of the water.
While Biden should be able to easily cash in on an ongoing crisis like Reagan and FDR did, he's failing to do so. His bumbling podcasts and stuttering interviews have left Americans little choice but to back the horse they have and not change horses in mid-stream.
And yes, Trump is rising to the occasion. By weighing in on not wanting the cure to be worse than the disease, he reached out ordinary Americans, telling them he was aware of the household-level impact of this crisis and concerns people have about losing their jobs and paying their bills.
Politics is perception Artie, not facts and not logic. And Trump excels at things that require more perception than logic. He's a salesman and he's in his element right now.
Politics is a nudist camp, Artie. The emperor doesn't need clothes.
Conan the Grammarian at March 25, 2020 9:47 AM
About a lot of things, Artie.
You're blinded in by your own bias here - looking at the situation as you want it to be and not as it is.
Politics does not mean having all the answers or being analytical. It's perception. That's why people like Bernie and Lizzie, who say stupid things like "the money's always there" or "tax the rich" when asked how they'll pay for trillion-dollar giveaway programs, get re-elected.
Trump doesn't have to have the numbers exactly right - or even close to right - he has to convey the optimism that the voters want from him right now. People not weighed down by partisan bias know this situation is unprecedented.
Name one president who failed to connect with the public in a crisis and got re-elected.
Hoover? He was good with numbers (trained as a mining engineer), but was defeated after one term when people were not re-assured by his bean-counting public persona. Despite implementing programs that were precursors to Roosevelt's, Hoover was perceived as not having any idea of what to do. He failed to connect with people, "...emotional life just wasn’t his métier." Roosevelt, on the other hand, was an optimist ("The only thing we have to fear....") and used Fireside Chats to connect with struggling Americans (kinda like Trump's using his daily briefings), telling them that we were all in this together, and that we would come out of the crisis in good order.
Did candidate Roosevelt have a solution to the Great Depression? No. He pulled numbers and solutions out of his ass. President Roosevelt actually made the Great Depression worse, but people perceived he was solving the problem and re-elected him [read Amity Shlaes - The Forgotten Man].
Carter? He was pretty analytical (USNA graduate and nuclear engineer), but also a micro-manager who was defeated after one term. Carter was perceived as being in way over his head with inflation, the energy crisis, and foreign affairs (e.g., the Iran hostage crisis). His "malaise" speech made him appear defeatist and sealed his doom. Reagan's "morning in America" optimism blew Carter's "malaise" out of the water.
While Biden should be able to easily cash in on an ongoing crisis like Reagan and FDR did, he's failing to do so. His bumbling podcasts and stuttering interviews have left Americans little choice but to back the horse they have and not change horses in mid-stream.
And yes, Trump is rising to the occasion. By weighing in on not wanting the cure to be worse than the disease, he reached out ordinary Americans, telling them he was aware of the household-level impact of this crisis and concerns people have about losing their jobs and paying their bills.
Politics is perception Artie, not facts and not logic. And Trump excels at things that require more perception than logic. He's a salesman and he's in his element right now.
Politics is a nudist camp, Artie. The emperor doesn't need clothes.
Conan the Grammarian at March 25, 2020 9:48 AM
Artemis says,
No, not exactly. Trump acted against the recommendations of advisers to require quarantine, and shortly after, ban entry of Chinese passenger airline flights into the US.
Trump's approval ratings are currently at 47 to 50%. I don't think COVID19 will hurt his chances of re-election, especially given the competition.
Ellie at March 25, 2020 9:52 AM
Anyone in here offering odds on Cuomo atop the Dem ballot in November?
- Presumptive nominee is drooling & incoherent.
- Family name affords spotless Party credentials.
- Continuous access to world media via his native NYC…
- …Thereby swelling the girly hearts of romance-addled lefties across the land.
- The convention machinery will be brutalized, with resultant opportunities for upstarts in the chaos.
- Is quick-witted and alert to the minds of others in a way other candidates have not been, perhaps allowing him to properly chasten and dispatch needy 8th-graders who turn up to debate.
- Would afford the Big Apple a badly needed shot at redemption after—
- Its ascension to Coronavirus Capital of the Planet™ (certificate to be officially awarded this afternoon).
- [B.] Trump.
- Has a Billy Carterian rascal-little-brother figure, already well-nicknamed as "Guido."
I think it's falling into place. I'd say it's 45% possibility, and rising. By the hour.You'll be glad you read this blog comment.
Crid at March 25, 2020 9:57 AM
Isab's "autism" theorem has collected a lot of new evidence in recent months.
But even if it proves out, I'll always believe "childhood institutionalization" was an important component of what we're seeing here.
Crid at March 25, 2020 8:53 AM
I’m starting to lean more towards a unified theory: Chinese American autistic, institutionalized in childhood or raised with zero socialization due to childhood health issues.
Isab at March 25, 2020 10:04 AM
It's difficult to admire people who's first impulse is to blame media.
"Shoot the messenger" doesn't quite cover it. By watching teevee, you imagine yourself somehow closer to events depicted than are others, and you think they should listen to you because you have a better perspective… For some reason. For some reason not apparent and not elucidated.
You are essentially, lefties- 'We know the REAL truth about abortions and people who own guns and women's wages!' They're not interested in evidence, either.
Crid at March 25, 2020 10:09 AM
Hey now! I feel like my job is being infringed upon. I'm supposed to be the crazy pro-Trump guy here. I need to talk to my union rep or something.
As for Cuomo, I can't offer odds on that. Wouldn't shock me. The Democrat Party has been running towards the guy they know the least about for over a year. It's been a strange time in politics for a while.
Ben at March 25, 2020 10:14 AM
Conan:
I must have Artemis on some kind of mental filter. I didn't even know he was in this discussion until you responded to him. For some reason, it seems like I usually miss his comments. Regardless, you only said that he's starting to appear presidential. As compliments go, that is what we call "backhanded." He's nearly finished his first term, and he's only starting to appear presidential. To say nothing of your comments about his use of memes and social media.
Evidently, anything short of calling for Donald Trump's head on a pikestaff means you're a rabid supporter who needs to open your eyes.
Patrick at March 25, 2020 10:17 AM
"resultant opportunities for upstarts"
to wit.
Crid at March 25, 2020 10:20 AM
Isab,
I notice that once again you are obsessed with anything other than the topic at hand.
Bernie does not matter with regard to this conversation, I do not matter with regard to this conversation.
The only thing that is pertinent here is Trumps abysmal performance as an executive/administrator.
That this has an almost negligible impact upon his cadre of sycophants isn't a surprise to me.
As I have stated before, whether or not Trump will win reelection will be almost entirely determined by voter turnout amongst those below the age of 40.
You folks were also extremely confident things would go your way in 2018 and that didn't exactly work out as you predicted.
Furthermore, one thing I know for certain is that McConnel doesn't seem to share your rosy appraisal of Trumps chances, which is why he went our of his way to encourage older conservative judges to retire well in advance of the 2020 election:
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/16/mitch-mcconnell-urging-judges-retire-ahead-2020-election/5060303002/
This is not the strategic move of someone who is confident Trump will win reelection.
That is the strategic move of someone worried he will lose and wanting to lock in younger judges before it is too late.
Artemis at March 25, 2020 10:33 AM
Patrick Says:
"Evidently, anything short of calling for Donald Trump's head on a pikestaff means you're a rabid supporter who needs to open your eyes."
Not really... I stand by my original analysis that Conan is grading this president like he is on a curve in the special education classroom.
I never claimed Conan was heaping praise on Trump.
I claimed he was not holding him to the same standard as previous presidents.
Artemis at March 25, 2020 10:38 AM
I enjoy it when Trump trolls his enemies.
Ken R gets at the crux of it right there. It's not about statesmanship; it's about aggreviance and belligerence, and the notion that America is somehow a binary nation made up of "friends" and "enemies."
Kevin at March 25, 2020 10:45 AM
I like the part where Hillary isn't President.
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at March 25, 2020 12:36 PM
I am so confused, I must have missed a thread... since when is Artemis a dude? I thought Artemis was a girl?
NicoleK at March 25, 2020 1:21 PM
NicoleK,
You haven't missed anything.
Just like Isab is now contending I am of Chinese descent based on nothing other than internet blog conversation
It's all just speculative made up nonsense.
Artemis at March 25, 2020 1:29 PM
Nicole ✓
Crid at March 25, 2020 2:10 PM
Artemis, Greek goddess of the moon and the hunt, twin sister of Apollo.
On the other hand, I've known two men in my life named Artemis.
Patrick at March 25, 2020 2:19 PM
One of the reasons I like this blog is that it’s like entering an alternate universe. Every other blog I frequent — or in places like the NY Times comments** — Trump is loathed, but here almost everyone is a fan.
** there is a pro-Trump presence there, about 10% of the comments.
I only know one individual personally, a former female co-worker, who supports Trump. Every other person I know — friends, siblings, co-workers — despises him. Even my religious conservative older sister and her husband despise him.
JD at March 25, 2020 3:59 PM
It was spelled slightly different: the drummer (a guy) for Lynyrd Skynyrd was Artimus Pyle.
JD at March 25, 2020 4:02 PM
Conan: “He’s starting to appear presidential...”
Most of his supporters probably hate that. I think they prefer it when he doesn’t act that way.
JD at March 25, 2020 4:26 PM
The problem with that JD is you just admitted you don't know any of them. You might want to be cautious ascribing things to people you haven't a clue about.
Ben at March 25, 2020 4:34 PM
So it’s not reasonable for one to believe that most NRA members are likely opposed to gun control if one does not personally know any gun owners?
JD at March 25, 2020 4:55 PM
Artemis, I think very few people here would vote for ANY Democratic candidate over Trump. To them, there’s nothing horrible Trump could do that would be worse that the horror of a Democratic President.
JD at March 25, 2020 5:08 PM
So it’s not reasonable for one to believe that most NRA members are likely opposed to gun control if one does not personally know any gun owners?
JD at March 25, 2020 4:55 PM
Most NRA members are fine with gun control. There are a lot of regulations already on the books. Most of which I support.
What most of us are opposed to are laws designed to make an end run around the constitution and allow government to confiscate guns and deny ammo purchases on flimsy pretexts, or ratchet towards that goal.
Democrats are also quite good at trying to bankrupt businesses they don’t like through zoning laws and pressure on banks not to lend to disfavored industries.
Owyn at March 25, 2020 5:24 PM
Amy: ‘How likely do you think it it is that this will "help" him out of office -- rather than being granted another term?’
I think it’s far to early to say. If the election was being held right now, I think he’d lose but there’s a lot that can happen between now and November.
I really hope Trump is defeated this fall — and I also hope that Democrats maintain their majority in the House and achieve a majority in the Senate — because I think the country will be better off for it, but I’m also not one of those liberals who think the world is going to end if we have four more years of Trump and Trumpism.
JD at March 25, 2020 5:32 PM
Well JD you've made it clear you've made up your mind about your political opponents.
Ben at March 25, 2020 6:02 PM
Not at all, in spite of your most ardent wishes, Amy, because people will discover that he's running against either a man who's slowly losing his mind, possibly to dementia, or a out-and-out communist whose staffers have been caught on video discussing re-education camps.
mpetrie98 at March 25, 2020 8:11 PM
I won't be voting for Trump.
I do, however, sometimes thing he gets overly blamed for stupid stuff. Cofveve comes to mind. Who the hell hasn't made a typo?
NicoleK at March 26, 2020 12:05 AM
Orion's no Cho, but earlier this week I happened to read this essay from Wes Yang, and the personality dislocations in American culture which Yang describes comport with what we're seeing from Orion/Artemis.
Isab's speculation — Chinese &/or autistic &/or institutionalized &/or isolated — covers all the parameters.
And the vibe is Chinese specifically— Not Thai or Japanese or Korean. I wonder if he (she?) still lives there?
Crid at March 26, 2020 3:00 AM
"It's all just speculative made up nonsense."
EMP attack on irony meter thwarted
"I only know one individual personally, a former female co-worker, who supports Trump. Every other person I know — friends, siblings, co-workers — despises him. Even my religious conservative older sister and her husband despise him. "
Glad you get out of the echo chamber. Maybe the difference is that we all have jobs here, and non-trivial degrees.
I wonder: if you threw those persons you know into the woods with just ten of Amy's regulars, who do you think would prosper? How many of each group do you think can cite the actual voting record of their candidate?
And have you read anything Crid has written?
Radwaste at March 26, 2020 6:27 AM
To answer the question: hell, no.
At least half the public would elect the virus rather than anyone Nancy Pelosi might endorse.
But there's something to think about: how will absentee ballots, easy to fake, be handled in the next election?
Radwaste at March 26, 2020 6:29 AM
This won't hurt Trump for the simple reason that there will not be an election this November.
Why yes, I am feeling doom and gloom today.
NicoleK at March 26, 2020 8:15 AM
I have been a silent reader here for years, enjoying Amy's no-nonsense attitude and advice. It has become my weekly routine for years to check this website every Wednesday. I never post comments as people's opinions didn't bother me, regardless of what they believe in.
Today though, I can't help it but chime in. Sounds like several commenters here have made it their mission to throw around insults instead of focusing on the topic at hand. The comments section has become so vitriolic that it's not enjoyable to read.
Everyone can go back to your childish tantrums. Such a waste of my time.
Disgusted silent reader at March 26, 2020 9:25 AM
I have been a silent reader here for years, enjoying Amy's no-nonsense attitude and advice. It has become my weekly routine for years to check this website every Wednesday. I never post comments as people's opinions didn't bother me, regardless of what they believe in.
Today though, I can't help it but chime in. Sounds like several commenters here have made it their mission to throw around insults instead of focusing on the topic at hand. The comments section has become so vitriolic that it's not enjoyable to read.
Everyone can go back to your childish tantrums. Such a waste of my time.
Disgusted silent reader at March 26, 2020 9:25 AM
Thanks Artemis. I’m sure we all needed that.
There is absolutely nothing in this thread that hasn’t been said repeatedly in other more vitriolic threads.
Feel free not to read, or post. And we don’t really need to hear about it. You are not my mother, and I am not your charge. Save your lectures for the kiddies, if you have any.
Isab at March 26, 2020 10:09 AM
I guess Artie decided not to use Jacquelope again (third comment from the bottom in the link).
Conan the Grammarian at March 26, 2020 12:52 PM
If you've been a silent reader for years you know this is hardly new.
NicoleK at March 26, 2020 1:34 PM
Isab Says:
"Thanks Artemis. I’m sure we all needed that."
What exactly are you trying to insinuate here Isab?
The reality is that normal people do not appreciate the kind of toxic conversations that exist here.
I'd love to engage in real discussions without all of the nonsense.
The problem at hand is that certain folks such as yourself make that completely impossible.
There is no reasonable response to offer when you post things like the following:
"I’m starting to lean more towards a unified theory: Chinese American autistic, institutionalized in childhood or raised with zero socialization due to childhood health issues."
You may not believe that you need to be lectured on how you comport yourself... but I think it is likely that pretty much every silent reader shares that persons opinion.
This is just who you are though... through and through... and I plan on continuing to correct you when you post things that are factually incorrect.
Artemis at March 26, 2020 5:41 PM
Conan,
That people periodically call you and others out on your nonsense doesn't imply it is me running sock puppet accounts.
I have no need to do that.
If I want to scold you I am perfectly content doing it under this name.
Artemis at March 26, 2020 5:44 PM
FYI... current death toll associated with Corona in the US is ~1,300.
The doubling rate is about every 3 days given the current trend.
This implies we should hit ~5,000 deaths by April.
Anyone who thinks this won't have any negative impact on Trump at all is watching too much fox news and reading too much breitbart.
That being said, this really isn't the important point.
The important point is that people are losing their lives and you are focused on calling people autistic on the internet.
This is always what happens when the facts are clearly not on your side.
When you don't like reality you resort to nonsense. Unfortunately your nonsense won't do much to protect you or the ones you love.
Unless of course tossing insults at me on the internet keeps you indoors... in which case have a field day... anything to keep folks like you inside.
Artemis at March 26, 2020 5:54 PM
While it may some negative impact, that negative impact will only matter if voters feel the opposing candidate will do a better job going forward or could have done a better job in the past. And Joe Biden is not that candidate. The Obama Administration's handling of its deadly flu outbreak is not an exemplar of more competent epidemic handling and Joe's current mental state is borderline senile.
Even Democrats are jumping from the Biden bandwagon and onto the Andrew Cuomo bandwagon as Cuomo's performance stands in stark contrast to Biden's. This is why governor's make better presidential candidates than senators. Governors have to get results with actual issues whereas senators don't.
The New York Times says of Biden, "The coronavirus has ... prolonged the contest, yanked him out of the news and left him in political limbo, where he wonders if Bernie Sanders will ever acknowledge defeat and shivers in the shadow of another Democrat, Andrew Cuomo, who didn’t even run for president."
While polls show Trump's approval ratings higher than they've ever been, it won't be Trump's strengths that win re-election for him, it will be Biden's weaknesses. Unless the DNC chooses a better candidate or Trump makes a massive mis-step, this election is Trump's to lose.
Conan the Grammarian at March 27, 2020 3:14 PM
Perhaps you are, but it's funny how the people supporting you with these comments are one-time posters who had never posted before and then never post again.
After springing up out of nowhere and rushing to your defense, Jacquelope was never heard from again. And the heretofore unseen Silent Reader will likely disappear after this as well.
Conan the Grammarian at March 27, 2020 3:25 PM
Trump’s popularity is up. The media's is down.
We are in a crisis. The administration and millions of people are working their asses off. And some dipshit reporter wants to talk about feelings or about how it is insensitive to call it a Chinese disease. GFY. Seriously. ASK A BETTER QUESTION.
Of course Trump made some missteps. EVERYONE made missteps. Why don’t you slag Obama?
Polls are worthless. You think I am going to tell some busybody pollster on the phone that I support Trump? Or put out a yard sign and get my car keyed by some halfwit unemployed socialist 18 y.o.?
Do you have the slightest understanding of human nature?
Trump will kick the crap out of any opponent.
Chester White at March 27, 2020 10:42 PM
> calling people autistic
> This is always what happens when
> the facts are clearly not on
> your side.
Over twenty years it's never happened to anyone else here, though many have offered much more empiric insight and intellectual candlepower than you're bringing. No, the term appears because you've consistently & bitterly derailed conversations with naive presumptions, and in detached, unconvincing language. You don't do people: Heterogeneous discourse offends and apparently frightens you. It certainly overwhelms… You badly want to believe that there's One True Way, that you know what it is, and that therefore Teacher must give you the best grade in the class. (I remember your habit of dismissing rhetorical positions as disfavored by "normal people.") The Wes Yang essay richly describes this interpersonal vacuity.
But diverse beliefs are not a problem for courageous Americans of typical neurology.
Either you're from a lesser and vastly different intellectual tradition —one cowed by individual character and independent excellence— or there's a developmental consideration.
We're still placing bets.
Crid at March 28, 2020 12:13 AM
That essay from American writer Wesley Yang might be valuable reading for anyone who thinks that Western and Eastern distinctions could become more (ahem) consequential in the times ahead. For some reason.
It's worth logging into the website to read, or you can get it from Amazon for $2.Crid at March 28, 2020 12:15 AM
On his Twitter feed and on this excellent podcast Yang is a sometimes plodding guy who often says fascinating things.
Crid at March 28, 2020 12:16 AM
Conan Says:
"While it may some negative impact, that negative impact will only matter if voters feel the opposing candidate will do a better job going forward or could have done a better job in the past. And Joe Biden is not that candidate."
I don't think you fully appreciate what it about to occur over the next month...
Let's just put it this way. Trump was bragging 1 month ago how we only had 15 cases and he had shut it all down.
We are now over 100,000 cases, the end is not really in sight yet, the death toll is just starting to ramp up... and Trump is busy blaming every governor and mayor in the united states... none of whom were privy to the meetings and information he as president classified.
Joe Biden is definitely a flawed candidate... and I hold out hope that he will be replaced at the top of the ticket... however Trump is such a dumpster fire of a president that I can't rule out the election of a single bag of garbage.
The US is poised to have the worst response globally to the pandemic by any metric you choose. If you think that bodes well for Trump you aren't living in reality.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 5:21 AM
Conan Says:
"Perhaps you are, but it's funny how the people supporting you with these comments are one-time posters who had never posted before and then never post again."
Perhaps you would have more comments from such folks if you and others didn't continually greet them with invective and stupidity.
I don't know if you've noticed Conan... but *new* commenters do not really show up here any more.
You and others like you have generated an echo chamber that attempts to run off anyone who doesn't already share your extraordinarily narrow political view.
This blog used to have many more commenters... what do you suppose happened to all of them?
Artemis at March 28, 2020 5:25 AM
Crid Says:
"Over twenty years it's never happened to anyone else here, though many have offered much more empiric insight and intellectual candlepower than you're bringing. No, the term appears because you've consistently & bitterly derailed conversations with naive presumptions, and in detached, unconvincing language."
You are one strange and deranged dude Crid.
You are literally the guy who derails entire discussions just to pursue this nonsense.
You have also been perpetually wrong about pretty much anything we have disagreed about... I mean that on a factual basis.
And yes, you have done this to other people.
Whenever someone makes demonstrable points that conflict with your erroneous views you stop discussing the topic at hand and start throwing a tantrum and toss every insult you can think of at them.
When you do this, you are the one derailing the conversation.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 5:32 AM
That would sting, except:
I'm thinking Chinese, but somewhere in the region, certainly... Sexless, colorless, odorless and terrified of individual identity. You describe no family, friends or associates, and no relationships of any kind. Being terrified of such things, you offer no experiential knowledge.But since you take so little from the group and can bring nothing at all, why are you here?
You oughta read the Yang piece, though you won't: You'd recognize what he describes in so many.Crid at March 28, 2020 7:54 AM
Crid,
As usual your reasoning is severely flawed.
Argumentum ad populum is a very standard form of fallacious reasoning.
I haven't even been able to convince Isab that climate change is a real and measurable phenomenon... that is hardly a failure of my ability to reason or present arguments. That is a failure of her own understanding and resistance to assimilating information that contradicts her own preexisting notions.
The point being, the popularity or lack of popularity of a particular position held by a handful of folks on this blog does not substitute for truth or enlightenment.
If you knew anything at all you would understand this already.
Furthermore, your desperate attempt to pin any of this on my ego is stupid on its face.
You are the one putting forth the proposition that a couple of blog posters on this very blog are in some sense the arbiters of truth despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary in many cases... now *that* is ego.
In addition, just look at how Isab even talks to a complete stranger who just showed up to voice their opinion:
"Feel free not to read, or post. And we don’t really need to hear about it. You are not my mother, and I am not your charge. Save your lectures for the kiddies, if you have any."
*That* is also dripping with ego.
What is so very amazing to me is none of you strike me as having any tangible accomplishments.
Just a bunch of cranky old folks on the internet telling everyone to get off their lawn.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 8:11 AM
Crid,
One further point to help explain things for you.
You have set up a purposeful asymmetry that is both ridiculous and fallacious on its face.
If I fail to convince you of my position... according to you it is my fault due to lack of sufficient evidence (this despite the fact that I am the only one here who has ever put their money where their mouth was with a testable prediction... and thus far I have a 100% track record for accuracy).
You on the other hand avoid real testable predictions like the plague and live in vague fuzzy areas where nothing you say carries any real risk... the risk of course would be that you would be proven wrong with nowhere to hide.
You once asked me to have a wager with me... and then immediately back off when there were real stakes involved.
Now that is risk, and you ran away at the earliest opportunity.
Lastly, if you or this blog were so very unfriendly to folks uncritically digesting information from a 'Dear Leader' type you wouldn't be putting your lot in with the likes of Conan or Isab as both of them just regurgitate factually inaccurate talking points made up by Trump.
For all of the chatter and concern about authoritarianism it has become abundantly clear that the folks here like authoritarians so long as they in a political party to which they hold allegiance above their own country.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 8:25 AM
Artemis, I really hope for your sake, you tell Amy who you are and where you live, so that on November 4th 2020, she can call the ambulance to show up at your place with a straight jacket and a shot of Haloperidol.
Isab at March 28, 2020 10:02 AM
Artie, I read plenty of liberal and conservative sites and being heckled by the majority is not a deterrent to the determined commenter.
Those sites abound with invective and name-calling not found on this site ("re-thug-licans" or "dumb-ocrats" for example; and worse). This site actually houses a pretty civilized debate on politics and policy.
i've noticed that even the more Progressive-minded regulars on this site do not rush to your defense or echo your arguments; and that's not because of the non-Progressives' heckling. Only one-time commenters ever seem to come to your defense or echo your arguments.
Amy can check the IP addresses to let us know that you're not behind the Jacquelope or Disgusted silent reader posts - if she has the time or the inclination.
Again with a reference to age. Your ongoing obsession with generational differences (frequent references to "Boomer" and "old folks") leads me to believe the arrogance in your tone come from the arrogance of youth and not necessarily from a expansive knowledge base or life experience.
Your frequent references to "normal" leads me to believe you're had some sort of institutionalization or social isolation.
You've learned one subject well, perhaps too well and too early, and rely on that knowledge exclusively to guide you through life. Nothing in anything you've posted leads any of us to believe there is an experiential base to your point of view.
None of this means your comments are unwelcome. What is unwelcome is the arrogance you display - holding that only your point of view reflects the truth, contains factual information, or can be taken as certain.
Trump may lose the election, but I've been watching politics since the Ford administration (young then, but observant) that that leads me to believe the Democrats have not advanced a solid case for themselves. Perhaps they will in the ensuing months or Trump will stumble so badly that anyone is perceived as a better alternative, but I have my doubts. This is not said as a Trump supporter, but as a neutral observer.
You, on the other hand, are certain a rising death toll will destroy his chances - and you may be correct, if it doesn't peak before the election. However, other factors will be in play as well. Pelosi did the Dems no favors with her pork-laden attempt at supplanting the already-agreed-upon relief bill. AOC's insistence on including illegal aliens in the relief payments will also hurt the Dems in November
You see Trump's mis-statements on fact and believe he will lose on those. I see Trump's optimistic tone and believe he will win on that, Panglossian though it may be. Emotion and perception play a much larger role in politics than is allowed in your philosophy.
Conan the Grammarian at March 28, 2020 10:25 AM
Isab,
You really need to get over yourself.
Whatever happens come election day I'll be fine.
The person you really need to worry about is Trump if he happens to lose because he is a toxic narcissist who cannot contend with realities he doesn't like.
What do you think the odds are if he happens to lose he will declare the election fake?
Artemis at March 28, 2020 12:05 PM
Conan Says:
"Artie, I read plenty of liberal and conservative sites and being heckled by the majority is not a deterrent to the determined commenter."
What on earth would suggest I am deterred?
I think you guys are rather amusing to be honest.
"i've noticed that even the more Progressive-minded regulars on this site do not rush to your defense or echo your arguments; and that's not because of the non-Progressives' heckling. Only one-time commenters ever seem to come to your defense or echo your arguments."
Just a few points:
1 - This site does not really have a significant fraction of "progressive-minded" regulars.
2 - People in general do not rush to the defense of anyone.
3 - Did you happen to miss in this very thread when JD said the following:
"Artemis, I think very few people here would vote for ANY Democratic candidate over Trump. To them, there’s nothing horrible Trump could do that would be worse that the horror of a Democratic President."
That seems to pretty much echo my own arguments that the folks on this blog are die hard partisans who cannot see past their own nose.
That just happened in this very thread and it fell below your notice.
Your problem is and has always been one of a massive information filter that selectively knocks out anything that doesn't conform to what you want to believe.
"Again with a reference to age. Your ongoing obsession with generational differences (frequent references to "Boomer" and "old folks") leads me to believe the arrogance in your tone come from the arrogance of youth and not necessarily from a expansive knowledge base or life experience."
Again you lack a distinct sense of self awareness.
Let me help you... Crid, Isab, and yourself have spent years ignoring substantive arguments in favor of invective.
At the same time you then seem to take great umbrage when I reference you are crotchety old folks.
You are extremely comfortable generating and referencing stereotypes with regard to certain age groups but get very touchy when you have been stereotyped.
The reality is that you fit a long standing stereotype of a crotchety set in their ways unreasonable person of advanced age.
Some folks grow older and gain wisdom and knowledge... others such as yourself insulate yourself from new information having concluded that you know everything already and that you are now in a position to lecture the world.
How sad it much be for you that no one is really interested in listening.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 12:21 PM
“Let me help you... Crid, Isab, and yourself have spent years ignoring substantive arguments in favor of invective.”
We also differ on the definition of *substantive argument*.
Isab at March 28, 2020 1:22 PM
Isab,
We do differ on the definition of *substantive argument*.
I reside in a world of facts, evidence, and demonstrable information.
You on the other hand reside in a world where what you happen to feel on any given day defines what reality is.
You after all are a climate change denier... that doesn't provide you with much credibility when it comes to understanding what constitutes a *substantive argument*.
You've also been rather incorrect on the reality of the coronavirus outbreak over the last month.
Reality is unfortunately going to hit you in the face on that one as each and every numerical prediction I have given has come to pass in short order.
These aren't some lucky guesses on my part by the way... it is just that I know how to read and understand data and you sit around going with your gut.
Trump has also been going with his gut and ignoring the experts... that isn't playing out so well for him either.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 1:42 PM
Conan,
I realized that there was another important error for me to correct.
How exactly did you get from quoting me here:
"...however Trump is such a dumpster fire of a president that I can't rule out the election of a single bag of garbage. ~ Artemis at March 28, 2020 5:21 AM"
To the following statement:
"You, on the other hand, are certain a rising death toll will destroy his chances..."
I have never claimed certainty of anything with regard to Trumps chances.
I have simply objected to the idea put forth in this thread that his handling of the pandemic will have no impact at all.
Perhaps this is why you see arrogance where there is none. It is because you see certainty where there is none.
I don't function in a world of certainty or absolutes. The world is driven by probabilities and likelihoods.
When I say something is likely that doesn't imply certainty.
While there are things I have maximal certainty about (i.e., >99%)… predictions about election results are not in that category.
I simply think it is likely this will have a negative impact on his campaign.
Why you or anyone else flip out over such a declaration is precisely because you see red any time someone isn't walking around with their lips firmly attached to Trumps behind.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 1:50 PM
“These aren't some lucky guesses on my part by the way... it is just that I know how to read and understand data and you sit around going with your gut.”
You don’t have the tools to understand when you are interpreting incomplete, massaged and *made up* data. Nor do you seem to be able to distinguish between a report on what someone said about the data, written by a journalist and the actual *data*. There are very few facts at this point, only probabilities. A good model would require testing *everyone* with a very accurate test, at regular intervals, and a second accurate antibody test to screen for the huge numbers of individuals who have had the Corona virus and recovered.
We have seen this with the global warming mess. Instead of original data, you rely totally on arguments from authority.
You are reading journalists. You have never had access to the science or original data on this virus and you aren’t an expert in selecting and interpreting medical data and virus tests, even if you had access to it.
I’m not sure where this factual certainty comes from, because the acknowledged experts in this field sure as heck aren't exhibiting any certainty about the progression and where we will be in six months.
To paraphrase, the comment thread original question was; Will the Corona virus, and Trump’s handling of it doom his chances in the next election? That was asking for a *subjective opinion* and, as usual, you lost the plot, almost immediately.
Isab at March 28, 2020 2:11 PM
Isab Says:
"You don’t have the tools to understand when you are interpreting incomplete, massaged and *made up* data."
One of us is a professional scientist... and the other one likes to play one on an internet blog.
The reason I understand how to interpret data is that this is what I do for a living.
This is why I was able to tell you that the number of infections in the US was going to break 100K five days ago.
None of this is difficult if you have even the most remote understanding of concepts like exponential growth... which clearly you do not.
Continue to look for the death count to top 5,000 by April as I told you the other day.
You are in denial about a great many things because you lack the education, training, and understanding.
"Nor do you seem to be able to distinguish between a report on what someone said about the data, written by a journalist and the actual *data*."
I don't make my judgments based on journalists.
I watch the data as it comes in.
"You are reading journalists. You have never had access to the science or original data on this virus and you aren’t an expert in selecting and interpreting medical data and virus tests, even if you had access to it."
I am not reading journalists you arrogant moron. I look at the raw data that has been made widely available from official sources.
Furthermore, one doesn't need to be an expert in interpreting medical data to understand how to extrapolate a trend from an exponential trend.
Now if you want to get more complicated, mathematicians construct so-called SIR models to predict long term outcomes based on simulated behaviors. However that isn't what we are talking about here.
One of us knowns how to extrapolate future events from existing data... and the only one lives in a fantasy land where they believe it is all coming from journalists.
I don't need journalists. I can evaluate the data on my own.
"To paraphrase, the comment thread original question was; Will the Corona virus, and Trump’s handling of it doom his chances in the next election?"
That isn't a paraphrase of the original question.
That is a butchering of the question. Plus, why even paraphrase it when you can just quote it:
"How likely do you think it it is that this will "help" him out of office -- rather than being granted another term?"
Amy was asking a question regarding likelihood. That you interpreted this as a question about "doom" is your own demented spin on things.
I suspect if Trump loses you are going to be an absolute delight to be around.
I never lost the plot... you just like to redefine the plot to mean whatever you would like it to mean.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 3:03 PM
Isab Says:
"I’m not sure where this factual certainty comes from, because the acknowledged experts in this field sure as heck aren't exhibiting any certainty about the progression and where we will be in six months."
Since when is April six months away?
I am providing projections into the near future which is easy to do.
When did I make any predictions about six months from now?
Again... we do indeed differ on what constitutes a "substantive argument".
I deal with facts, evidence, and demonstrable information... and I strive to be honest in my discourse.
You on the other hand pretend facts and evidence are completely inaccessible and then lie about the person you are conversing with.
FYI... each and every state has established official sources of coronavirus information that is freely available to everyone.
Here is the website for Oklahoma for example:
https://coronavirus.health.ok.gov/
Similar websites exist for all states.
No one needs a journalist to report this to them. It is easy to find if you are capable of doing an internet search.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 3:36 PM
Your social ineptitude is more interesting than anything you've ever said.
Crid at March 28, 2020 3:42 PM
Crid,
This is the internet... not a cotillion where you are presented hoping to be noticed and appreciated.
I only come here to pop ideological bubbles for my own entertainment.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 3:54 PM
Here is the website for Oklahoma for example:
https://coronavirus.health.ok.gov/
Similar websites exist for all states.
No one needs a journalist to report this to them. It is easy to find if you are capable of doing an internet search.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 3:36 PM
Proving my point. Nothing scientific about this information either. Just a compilation of diagnoses of Corona virus, and a list of deaths if any with no indication of age or comorbidity factors.
The fact that you don’t recognize that this is not scientific data that any real epidemiologist would base a conclusion on is telling.
Isab at March 28, 2020 3:58 PM
Isab,
What on earth are you talking about?
That is exactly the kind of data epidemiologists use to track pandemics.
They track confirmed cases, death rates, and locations of infections.
Of course professional epidemiologists do much more than this.
The point is that from the available data it is not only possible but relatively easy to make predictions about the near term future.
As I told you, expect to see ~5,000 deaths in the US by April.
This isn't that difficult... if only appears that way to someone with little to no understanding of what exponential groth looks like.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 4:35 PM
Isab Says:
"...no indication of age or comorbidity factors."
You also appear to be illiterate. There is an entire chart with the following title:
COVID-19 Cases by Age Grouping
You have no idea what you are talking about even when it comes to looking at a webpage.
That is really pathetic.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 4:38 PM
Isab,
I am happy to make it interesting with a friendly wager though.
If I am correct you will change your chosen handle on this forum to Isabigot.
If I am wrong you can choose a handle for me.
Sound like fun?
Artemis at March 28, 2020 4:44 PM
“...by this pandemic, by this disease. This whatever they want to call it. You call it a germ, you can call it a flu, you can call it a virus. You know, you can call it many different names. I'm not sure anybody even knows what it is, but the children do very well.” — Trump, at press conference 3/27
Countless Americans know what the disease is: DJT-16
JD at March 28, 2020 7:33 PM
JD,
Indeed... the most amazing thing to me is how some of these folks keep referring to polls... but ignore the relevant ones:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html
The most recent FOX News poll for example has Biden up by 9 points.
Yet they cling to this bizarre notion that he is in the clear because 1 poll showed his approval moving in a positive direction... that poll still showed that a larger percentage of American's thought he was doing a shit job.
None of this matters to them though. Facts are meaningless. If he went from a 1% approval to a 2% approval rating they would be banging the drums that his approval rating just doubled.
Now I don't know for certain what the election will bring, but I do know that only two essential factors really matter here:
1 - How much he manages to cheat
2 - How many young folks get out to vote
As for the pandemic though, we are in for a very rough ride courtesy of this incompetent executive.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 8:59 PM
Isab,
I'll even get more specific for you since you do not seem to understand how predictable exponential trending happens to be.
I am fairly certain that we will hit 5,000 deaths in the US before the end of April 1st.
As per usual though, once we get to the point where very specific predictions come into play where you cannot weasel out of being wrong... you disappear completely.
Artemis at March 28, 2020 9:21 PM
> we are in for a very rough ride
> courtesy of this incompetent
> executive.
We? Don't you live overseas, and not in the States?
Crid at March 29, 2020 12:14 AM
I detest Trump pretty deeply... Not as much as I detest his oblivious admirers, but still pretty deeply indeed.
But if you're looking to hold a chief executive accountable for the Wuhan virus, he's not the one who should come to mind.
Crid at March 29, 2020 12:53 AM
Crid,
I never claimed to live overseas.
As for accountability, Trump is not responsible for the initial outbreak event in China. He is however personally responsible for the following:
1 - Downplaying the issue for months by continually telling the public everything was contained over here when in fact nothing was contained and the experts briefing him told him otherwise.
2 - Failing to prepare in advance by starting to produce and gather supplies over 60 days ago.
3 - Failing to brief governors regarding what was likely to occur and instead classifying health briefings to prevent any information regarding the risks moving forward from being disseminated to people capable of taking action.
4 - Making it clear that his only interest in hiding this information from the public was because of his concerns it would make him look bad before the election... so he hid the information and kept telling everyone the problem would miraculously disappear.
5 - Playing games with federal aid and trying to use it as leverage for gubernatorial fealty as opposed to preserving and protecting the lives of the citizens.
Those are some of the things he is personally responsible for.
He is not being judged on the fact that a health crisis emerged... he is being judged on his piss poor performance in responding to that crisis.
The guy is inept and stupid... and unfortunately his inability to actually do the job is going to cost thousands of lives that could have otherwise been spared.
Artemis at March 29, 2020 7:49 AM
Are you Chinese? Are you in China? Do you live in the United States?
Independently?
Crid at March 29, 2020 12:56 PM
Crid,
This is one of those are situations where you must be relieved not to have any one who desires to have any physical contact with you.
Artemis at March 29, 2020 3:10 PM
Chinese? Here or there? With the folks, or your own place?
Crid at March 29, 2020 7:37 PM
“The strangest part of President Trump’s coronavirus response is that it’s almost certainly damaging his chances of re-election.
I realize that may sound surprising, given that his approval rating has been rising. But when you look beyond day-to-day events — which Trump often struggles to do — you see that he is creating the conditions for a miserable summer and fall, with extended virus outbreaks and a deeper recession. The summer and fall, of course, are the crux of the presidential campaign.” — David Leonhardt
JD at March 29, 2020 9:31 PM
The 2020 campaign may turn out to be cruxless.
Crid at March 30, 2020 1:31 AM
Crid,
It must be truly bizarre for you to watch everyone lamenting the effects of social distancing when this has been your life for so long.
Mind offering any tips to folks who aren't as used to social isolation as you are?
Just think about it, your lonely pitiful existence can finally be of use to the rest of society.
It's your time to shine!
I'll also note that for all of your bluster about risk not one of your so-called "stalwart (or merely stubborn) commenters" was willing to take up a wager with very specific predictions about the future.
As per usual it is all projection... and it is all predictable and boring.
Artemis at March 30, 2020 4:55 AM
Chinese? Here or there?
Living on you own?
Crid at March 30, 2020 6:55 AM
Crid,
This is a time for self-reflection. It's high time you peeled yourself away from the couch and tried to figure out why you are such a bitter soul.
While everyone else is feeling a bit cut off this is a great time for you to make some friends. Reach out to people... check in on them... you'll be better off in the long run, I promise.
Artemis at March 30, 2020 9:41 AM
Artemis, he's likely not your type but someone appears to have a crush on you.
JD at March 30, 2020 2:37 PM
JD, Crid has always been kind of a thirsty dude.
I kind of wonder if this whole obsession with my ethnicity at this point is because he has some kind of an asian fetish.
Artemis at March 30, 2020 4:19 PM
What an embarrassment to my home state of Minnesota...
“God gave us grace on November 8, 2016, to change the course we were on. God had been taken out of our schools and lives, a nation had turned its back on God.” — Mike (MyPillow) Lindell, at today’s press conference.
JD at March 30, 2020 11:36 PM
> embarrassment
You in the mask business? Have suddenly diverted your production capacity to something that can mean so much to so many during this crisis?
Crid at March 31, 2020 7:08 PM
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