Dude, stop working overtime, stop paying for all the extras like cable, cell phones, and her hobby and tell her your happy with your new career hpours and she should love you no matter what and not for the amount of money you earn

20 lbs??? 20 whole pounds, after 7 years and how many kids???

I'm sorry. I'd agreed with you if she really porked up but 20 pounds isn't much at all, especially if she was very thin to begin with. LW is being supercritical.

And I'm willing to bet while excusing his own flaws. Is he working those "long" hours of overtime to get time and a half at a "career" at a level no higher than hers or because he's a busy exec? It doesn't say here. Somehow I suspect the former while condemning her for not doing likewise. God forbid, someone spend time with the kids.

She needs to nip the weight gain in the bud now, I'll agree. For her own sake and the kids (if she's getting too much sugar, I can guarantee they are too) but for his vanity? Gimme a break.

How's he doing in the appearance department? Lost any hair? Gain 20 pounds himself? (I note he also avoided mentioning his own weight, which you can bet dollars to donuts he would have if he hadn't gained.) Yet she's assumed to be "greatly and frequently" attracted to him instead of "somewhat and sometimes"?

I'm sorry but looks do so matter to women. If they don't, why do we spend so much time discussing men's looks? Why is that nutcake Tom Cruise so much more popular John Goodman? It ain't personality. Ugly guy in 3 piece suit walking down the street same time as hunk in ratty jeans and tank top isn't gonna get looked at half as much as the hunk.

Man or woman, initial attraction is purely physical.

LW's problems sound much more like the bloom is off the rose kind of thing. Here you are being naive, Amy, about what it is like having children. Along comes baby/babies and the love life does take a hit, at least until you adjust to them. They are exhausting and, psst, the woman's body does go through some physical trauma just bringing them into this world. Oh, and they do tend to interrupt just when things are finally getting hot and heavy once again. Couples adjust and usually get the gusto back but it takes a hit at least for a bit.

Should she lose the weight? Yes. Of course. For her health and for her family's and for her love life even. But so should he.

I like the way you addressed so many interesting points in this column. This is going to piss off a lot of people, though.

TG I'd agree that normally 20 lbs probably isnt much, but depending on her hight and where her body packs the pounds it could be alot.

If if was uniformly distrubuted over her entire body, that be one thing, if she wound up with a gut it be something else. I dont know if he sent Amy photos, but given his letter says her shape has changed as well as her wieght I'm assuming its fairly noticable.

For instance the other day I saw a 5 foot tall woman abuot 250+lbs, her legs were thicker than mine and I'm 6'3"

First thought that flashed into my mind? 'My God that woman has thackles'

I think I created a new word in that moment,
I mean if you think cankles are bad this womans legs would have put you off you lunch, people so fat that you cant make out there knee caps shount waer short shorts, especially when they have celulite and spider viens

Once again I find myself agreeing with our lady of advice wholeheartedly.

The one thing I think she left out of her answer, which I believe is a must have inclusion:

How does he convey his needs to his wife in such a way that she will make the effort to meet them?

I question the 20 pounds anyway. He said she has gained 20....where'd he get that number from? Her? Girls lie about actual numbers all the time. What ljup said about weight distribution is right. Some people gain weight in very ugly, ugly ways....

Well, Amy is right on (as usual) about the non-negotiability of hard-wired desire criteria.

We have a need to be near the statistical center of our own troop's behavioral cluster. We express this need in part by defining outliers and defectors as Other, and driving them out of our troop. Currently, as exemplified my luljp's post above, weight / body shape issues are one of the few socially approved criteria for such othering.

For example, some of you may perceptively surmise that I myself am fat, and discount my remarks accordingly. This will, by design, prove their validity. :) Goedel's got nothing on me, baby.

My point? Let us never commit the fallacy of exclusion; we too boot MonkeyOS 1.5 each & every morning.

Le plus ca change...
--
phunctor

Robert writes: "The one thing I think she left out of her answer, which I believe is a must have inclusion: How does he convey his needs to his wife in such a way that she will make the effort to meet them?"

This is an issue I've been struggling with for some time now. Direct criticism is not going to motivate one's partner, and weight loss requires motivation. But indirection tends to fall on deaf ears.

Anybody have a magic formula?

No magic formula, but you might try making it a health issue rather than a vanity issue. Getting into your skinny jeans is one thing. Dying of heart attack at the age of 55 or living with osteoporosis does not sound like fun. A little guilt might work, too, if you have children and can say it's for them.

I guilt my boyfriend into going to the doctor by reminding him that we have lots of plans for the future, and I need him to be alive for them. That could work for weight, too.

Have you tried working out yourself? Being a good example and all...

" ... No magic formula, but you might try making it a health issue rather than a vanity issue. ..."

Not necessarily. I have the exact same problem as the LW. In 15 years, my wife has gained at least 35 pounds (and she is short, so it really shows). I *never* directly criticize her appearance, but I do tell her over & over that I'm worried about her health; and it's just like talking to the wall. And the worst of it is that she is at high risk of diabetes due to her genetic background.

I'm at the end of my rope!! I'm way older than she is (I'm 60-ish and she's 40-ish), but I can literally run circles around her. There's an 800 foot high hill in a park near our house, and I make it a point to climb the trail to the summit several times a week, but she refuses to accompany me.

She is frequently in tears over "How am I going to lose weight?" but she refuses to make any serious effort to either diet or exercise. ... And she is a very intelligent woman, by the way. At the intellectual level, she understands perfectly well that the only way to lose weight is to eat less and exercise more; but at the gut level (no pun intended) she can't seem to accept it.

"people so fat that you cant make out there knee caps shount waer short shorts" God damn it you owe me a new pair of mental retinas. I see this shit all the time. I have to agree that 20 lbs at 5'11" and 20 lbs a 5'3" are very different.

"Anybody have a magic formula?" Old marine corp saying normally used by a Sgt. as shit goes horribly wrong: "Follow Me" Oddly this works for most of the family situations. Calling her a fat pig or bringing it up when you already pissed off for something else won't work.

Taubes is full of it for the average person but that's a different thread. If you eat a balanced diet high in fruits and veggies and lowe of refined (key word this one) carbs, more whole grain carbs etc. and excersise you lose weight. If you eat sugary fatty food (fats food, HF corn syrup) and sit your fat ass on the couch you get heavy. First all veggies have carbs that's what they are primarily made of not refine the shit out of them and you start getting into trouble. Both Atkins (long term) and south beach are not carb. free or even that low carb. They are high in veggies and lean meats and low in refined carbs.

The only part that raised my ears with the letter is this "I'm happy with my weight, and don't intend to change it." That sound like vengeance by ugly. I can't imagine any women liking being fat especially with kids as they will wear out even my Kung Fu instructor. So based on this one line she's pissed at him for something (maybe his double standard as T's Granny suggested). The other possibility is that she had to work very hard to look that good and she subscribes to both marraige means not having to give a shit and weight due to age/kids not burgers (the proverb is actually Russian and does not translate smoothly). Having kids will not make you fat, look at baby belt fed auto cannon M. Dugger. If kids made you get fat she'd be the size of mini van. As much as I'm loathe to use this women as a positive example of anything.

Twenty pounds on someone like me would be a 20% weight increase, and the first place I typically gain weight is my middle. My husband wouldn't like it if I turned into a dumpy little keg, either. If he doesn't find it attractive, I don't think that's something he can help. Also, in my case, and evidently in this case as well, my husband works his ass off and affords me a lifestyle that I really enjoy. If he'd rather blow off steam drinking a few beers or playing video games than working out, I think he's earned that. Some of you might not like this, but I really do feel like it's part of my job as his wife to look good. If I turn into a bitter sow, there will be other women who'd love to replace me. You can't take a good man who sacrifices for you for granted. Put down the cupcakes. (And really, I just don't GET women who don't care if they're fat. It really is impossible for me to relate.)

I don't know. Twenty pounds might or might not be all that much. Complaining about it sounds like it could be shorthand for a (excuse the expression) bigger problem in the marriage. Like this is a guy who works a sixty-hour week and he comes home to a wife who's happily involving in decorative flower-weaving. And maybe "lazy about working out" really means "I work like a dog to support the leisurely, stress-free lifestyle of my wife."

Going out on a limb, maybe the LW should consider a change of job? Something in his field that might not pay as much but he finds a lot more personally satisfying. Of course, I'm probably completely wrong but it could be a case of resentment here.

20 pounds is a lot of weight for some people. I have a narrow body without a lot of curves and I gain weight in my abdomen. If I put on 20 pounds not only would I have to go up two sizes, I'd look like I was pregnant.

I had sort of the opposite happen to me...my boyfriend has probably gained 25 or so pounds since we started dating. I'm actually in better shape than I was before (granted, I was very skinny when we met but also really weak.) and he's more attracted to me now that I'm at a healthy weight and don't look like I'm about to keel over. Do I care about his weight gain? No, and I'm not any less attracted to him, but I care because it's making him self-conscious. He probably wouldn't mind if I got heavier, but I like being thin, and I'm happier when I'm happy with my body. Not to mention more willing to get naked.

As for the diet thing, a lot of the diet food marketed to women, and especially those godawful meal replacement bars and crap like that, even the "healthy" sounding ones like Luna bars, are full of sugar and not what you should be eating. I have a sweet tooth and I like breads and I'm not willing to give up the foods I like completely, but I try to be conscious of what I eat and make sure that I get appropriate foods before I decide to eat something that's bad for me (and most of the sweet stuff I eat is stuff I've made myself, so I know exactly what's in it and it's good enough to be worth the calories). I also eat a lot of fat (eggs, cheese, and yogurt every day) and because of that I'm less prone to sudden hunger attacks.

vlad you have no idea who bad it was her entire legs was as thick as her thigh all the way to her feet

I recently put on weight due to medical problems. It is a turn off for me as well as for my husband. But, he doesn't nag. Instead, he walks with me and helps me plan healthy dinners in order for me to get back into better shape. It is tougher the older I get, too. But, I cannot imagine anyone being happy with extra weight on them. That is so unhealthy!

Wow. I am right on with T's Grammy here. I really doubt he looks as they did when they married. And no, because I do the work at home instead of the work for a paycheck and he does the opposite, does NOT mean he gets to chug beers and play video games and get fat. I like being in shape for me. What my man thinks is rather irrelevant. If someone else wants to take him off my hands, she's welcome. And I do love him. But he is not the focus of my life, nor should he be.

Follow me is almost the only way to get people to do anything that they don't intrinsically want to do. Get off your ass and sign you both up for a class that's fun. Karate, maybe? ANd make it FUN.

Question about Gary Taubes' book. I'm trying to find it on a Norwegian 'Amazon' type book place and they only have one called The Diet Delusion. I searched Amazon.ca and it can't find that book. Could it be the same one as the one you are suggesting, Amy?

"Utter idiocy, based only on your opinion, not on evidence." No read the study on the inuit that Taubes has a hard on for. He's drawing conclusions form the study that are not in that study nor supported in that study beyond lose conjecture. All the things about cancer and the inuit are explained by know scientific factors other than diet. The inuit argument is just as stupid as the Amish, vaccinations, and Autism.

"But he is not the focus of my life, nor should he be. " Nope just the one paying for it.

"vlad you have no idea who bad it was her entire legs was as thick as her thigh all the way to her feet" One thought Spandex at a Chinese buffet

There's no info in the letter on HER level of desire for him. Maybe she's just as happy to have less sex. Advice columns are full of letters that boil down to someone's hiding from intimacy behind a wall of fat. I guess it's a passive-aggressive, but unconscious, type of thing.

Or, her diminished libido could be due to something else. In any case, focusing on her lack of whatever isn't going to help him, and it'll probably just pressure her even more to keep on hiding from the truth.

My evil twin would tell this guy to keep the family together but ignore his wife - start hanging out with people from work, until she gets jealous and curious. Or maybe he should just lay it on the line, "Hon, I'm not happy with things - I'm working like a dog, you're not, and you're not making an effort for me. So, I'm not making any efforts for you." He could take the kids out without her, be the perfect father, and in general live his life but drop any hopes he might have of her changing.

Because as we know, you can't change another person.

However, as usual, E.T. is only too happy to dispense dangerous and harmful advice, which is why she doesn't have an advice column of her own.

But then I re-read "Being attracted to her is a basic need... my crankiness stems from it not being met."

No. Having good sex is a basic need. And anyone who starts out a convo with "My needs are not being met" is simultaneously being very honest and candid, and also a bit entitled.

But he does need to take definitive action - couples therapy, personal therapy, and making some hard decisions. He can't make her diet and exercise, but he can - and he can encourage the kids to take up athletics and other healthy lifestyle habits.

There's also a lot of context missing from the letter, that might make a big difference - what sort of career does she have that she loves so much but pays nothing? Is is a bored-housewife dabblers hobby or is she running a homeless shelter and doing some real social benefit for someone? In other words, what value does her "career" add to the lives of anyone outside of herself?

There's no information on her level of self awareness or her commitment to that. Most of the successful marriages I can think of, both (or all) partners really spend time on monitoring their own behavior and conduct towards one another, and they don't let things slide. They are willing to do the hard work of looking at themselves and discarding old emotional crutches that might be getting in the way - and they also know when to stand their ground.

They're not into lying on a therapists couch and whining week after week, either. Therapy's no good unless you can see results, and while big problems don't get fixed overnight, I do believe that good therapeutic work should show SOME improvement almost immediately. If it doesn't, you're with the wrong therapist.

"What my man thinks is rather irrelevant ... And I do love him."

No, you "love" him. Anyone that really loves somebody else would never characterize that person's opinion's as "rather irrelevant", whether one intends to act on that opinion or not.

"If someone else wants to take him off my hands, she's welcome."

Sounds like the one you "love" ought to start looking for that special someone else right away.

Wow. I'm really surprised at the election to attack the letter writer by some of the commenters here as if that is the sole issue. Diverting the vitriol to the guy instead of accepting that the wife should probably take some responsibility for her weight gain is emblematic of our problems in society today. Weight gain? Not my fault. Defaulting on my mortgage? Not my fault. When did accepting responsibility for your actions become so taboo?

This other item shocked me equally:

"I like being in shape for me. What my man thinks is rather irrelevant. If someone else wants to take him off my hands, she's welcome. And I do love him. But he is not the focus of my life, nor should he be."

Isn't this the sort of behavior that is frequently visited by Amy here? Why wouldn't you want to stay in shape for your partner? To keep the fire stoked within the two of you is actually good for relationships. Why would you desire to let yourself go, and be pleased if someone "took him off your hands."? The idea that your partner shouldn't be a focus of your life is yet another sad tragedy that is accepted far too often today. I guess the formula is fake it until marriage, get some kids, let yourself go, leave partner to fend for themselves as their value has been all used up.

I'll add a word of caution, Amy. Low-carb diets can be really dangerous for some people. Please check out what this Quackwatch article has to say-- the short form is, you need to approach them with caution and under a doctor's supervision, lest you end up with kidney damage. Also, if you've got gout or coronary artery disease, or if you already have kidney problems, low carb is not the way to go.

I believe that in your last post about Taubes you very responsibly brought up the "if your doctor says you can" caveat. I'd have loved to see it again in this column. No one diet is good for everyone-- medical supervision and periodic blood tests can save lives.

Oops, meant to address one of points being brought up by some commenters. 20 lbs over seven years and a couple of kids doesn't sound like a lot at all. But then the LW says her whole shape has changed. I'm with the people questioning to "20 lbs" number, only perhaps for a different reason. Men can be terrible judges of weight on women. It is possible that the wife has actually gained way more than that.

Had a friend who gained 50 lbs the year after she got married. I'd have called it 20, too-- because I suck at guessing weight! And I'm a woman, even!

Pure speculation here, but I wonder if this is some kind of test on her part: "If you really loved me, you'd love me fat, too." Or if she has given up on trying to lose weight and has decided to comfort herself with self-acceptance. As in, "I can't lose weight, so I'm going to love me for me."

I'd really like to know how big the woman is overall. Like others have said, 20 pounds over 7 years and several kids may not be that much, and it may be unreasonable to expect her to maintain her youthful figure through the years.

Or she may be shoving Oreos into her face all day and have gained all 20 pounds in her left leg.

"Isn't this the sort of behavior that is frequently visited by Amy here? Why wouldn't you want to stay in shape for your partner? To keep the fire stoked within the two of you is actually good for relationships. Why would you desire to let yourself go, and be pleased if someone "took him off your hands."? The idea that your partner shouldn't be a focus of your life is yet another sad tragedy that is accepted far too often today. I guess the formula is fake it until marriage, get some kids, let yourself go, leave partner to fend for themselves as their value has been all used up. "

No, you and dennis aren't reading well. I said I like being in shape for me. Period. The only thing that's going to keep a person motivated (unless they are depending far, far too much on another person to fill some void of their own) is personal motivation.

Why what my man thinks is irrelevant is this: if I don't want to do something, there is no way I will keep it up just for him long term. Period. If he didn't want me to be in shape, and I did, his opinion would be just as irrelevant.

No, your partner should not be the focus of your life. No one person can be everything to you. One man cannot be your lover, coparent, best friend to shop with, therapist, etc etc. It's unreasonable to expect a husband to fulfill your every need. You need to do that yourself, then you really can be partners, who are together because you like being together more than apart. Expecting one person to be your everything is what leads to so much divorce nowadays.

I never said I'd be pleased if someone else took him no matter what. I said if he can't be happy with me as time goes on and I age, then he's a superficial ass and I don't want him. And I'm not fat.

Actually, here, from Eades:

http://www.proteinpower.com/

Impaired Renal Function Fear of kidney damage has long been the bugaboo of people following low-carbohydrate diets. It’s doubtful that anyone pursuing a low-carbohydrate diet for any length of time hasn’t been told at least once that his or her kidneys are in danger. Here again the PCRM doesn’t disappoint; the group is right there leading the chorus. And PCRM doesn’t beat around the bush: “Highprotein diets are associated with reduced kidney function,” so says its report. No equivocation there. But once again PCRM has missed the boat. If we are to believe PCRM, we had better leave the buns on our burgers and eat every fry in the box to protect our kidneys. Studies from around the world have shown that the amount of protein contained in the modified version of the low-carbohydrate diet does not harm the kidneys. Even studies in patients with diabetic kidney disease show they will harm their kidneys more by increasing their carbohydrate intake and running up their blood sugars than they do by increasing their protein intake. In the late 1980s a group did an extensive study in Israel comparing the kidney function of people of all ages who ate a high meat diet with the kidney function of those on a vegetarian diet. The study showed that although both groups suffered a slight reduction in kidney function with age (it’s a sad fact of life—as we age function of just about everything including the kidneys decreases) the degree of loss of function was indistinguishable between the groups. Another recent study of kidney disease in diabetics performed at the University of California in San Francisco demonstrated that caloric reduction was a more potent force in protecting damaged kidneys than restriction of dietary protein. In fact, this study used a low-carbohydrate diet to restrict the calories. The whole idea that protein in the amounts eaten in modified low-carbohydrate diets damages kidneys is a vampire myth that refuses to die no matter how many stakes have been driven through its heart by a multitude of medical studies. One last point on this subject, an admittedly anecdotal one, but illustrative. The one group of people who eat more protein than any other single group is serious body builders. These people eat anywhere from three times to eight times the amount of protein recommended in any lowcarb diet, and do so for long periods of time. What does this do to their kidneys? It must not do much because it’s never been reported in the medical literature. If the PCRM were correct about protein damaging kidneys there would be lines of body builders cueing up outside of dialysis centers all over the world.

I agree completely that people in a marriage should make a good faith effort to stay in shape and stay attractive to each other, and to meet each other's sexual needs. That said, 20 pounds is not the same as 80 pounds, no matter how small her frame is or how she wears it. After 2 kids and approaching middle age, it may not be possible for her to achieve her mid twenties, pre-baby body. Still, if she cared about her husband or about the quality of their sex life, she would make an effort. Maybe lose 10 pounds, or walk more to get toned even if she doesn't lose any actual weight. And I think that's really the crux of the problem here - the wife doesn't seem to CARE about the sex life within her marriage, which is exactly why she doesn't care about losing the weight. Potentially she is someone who never had a high sex drive to begin with, or perhaps she is harboring resentment towards her husband and manifesting it through weight gain/withdrawing from sex, but whatever it is, her lack of interest in sex is the big problem here. If she wanted to have sex with her husband, then she would lose the weight or do whatever it took to be attractive to him. If they solve the problem of her interest in sex, the weight issue would probably clear up on its own.

"Taubes said to me -- that some people need to eat very low carb, some people can eat moderate carbs, and some people can or need to eat lots of carbs." That's not what he said in his book. He went borderline conspiracy theorist about the food pyramid numbers. What he said to you is very different. I agree with the above statement, genetic differences alone account for that.

"After 2 kids and approaching middle age, it may not be possible for her to achieve her mid twenties, pre-baby body." Bullshit I don't know anyone who made a sustained effort at keeping in shape and failed. Watch how fast after the divorce the fat wife got right back into to a hot milf shape. No unless it's a know medical condition (almost all are treatable) you fat ass is your fault. My current fat ass (while 20 down) is my fault exclusively. Seeing it any other way is the reason said ass is fat.

If you fat ass is not based on your food intake then none of the bariatic surgeries would work. It's antiabuse for food addicts just like Alli.

"Women might not look 20 again, but they are not fat. It's the American diet that's the problem. " With enough effort yes they can, while not likely for us plebeians Hollywood shows that it can with enough effort and no surgery well into the 40 with or without kids.

Momof3:

"No, you and dennis aren't reading well."

No, you aren't writing well. We read what you wrote, not what you meant but didn't write.

"I said if he can't be happy with me as time goes on and I age, then he's a superficial ass and I don't want him."

No, what you said was "If someone else wants to take him off my hands, she's welcome." You may have MEANT "if he can't be happy ... I don't want him," but that is not what you wrote.

"And I'm not fat."

Who's saying you are?

Hey Vlad, I'm working on my own fat ass here. My wife and I have recently emerged from a high-stress period in our lives. I gained about 25 lbs, on top of my previous weight which was already a tad high. Since the beginning of February, I've lost 23 lbs. So I'm almost back where I was, but I need to lose about another 10 to get back to my playing weight, so to speak.

Anyway... going back to what MelissaG said: I knew my wife had put on a few pounds over that same period. But I never knew how much, and I didn't ask. As Melissa said, most men are lousy judges of women's weight. The other night she told me how much she had gained... well, it was more than my 25 lbs. And not just a little bit more. I was stunned. And no, she was not the least bit happy being at that weight. And yes, our romantic life did suffer, but a lot of that was because *she* didn't feel attractive. We're addressing both of those problems now.

So we're on a new eating plan. I won't call it a diet, because "diet" implies something temporary. We're doing more planning of our menu for the week, instead of just grabbing whatever happens to be in the fridge, or eating a bunch of meals out. I personally can't function on an ultra-low-carb diet, so we try to be reasonable. For instance, I love pasta, but I now restrict myself to 1-2 times per week, and I measure it rather than just thowing some in until it "looks like enough". I can still eat things I want as long as I'm careful with portions (the secret to French eating, as Amy can attest). And I check labels on things a lot more than I used to. A nice side effect has been that, because our grocery buying is better planned and we have less waste, our meal expenses have gone down.

I do agree that partners should try to stay fit and attractive, both for themselves and for one another.

On the diet thing -- I prefer to get my science from someone who isn't trying to push products at me. Proteinpower.com is trying to sell low-carb products -- of course they're saying that the diet causes no problems. Do they have citations for those studies? Serious discussions of studies on the other side? The cigarette industry used to cite studies too, and pooh-pooh studies on the other side.

The low fat/high carb thing was certainly a fad. However, the low carb/high fat diets are also fads. Many people lose weight on such diets (I know people who lost a ton on the low fat/high carb diets), because they have basically cut out a food group and therefore they've cut calories. If you're healthy to begin with, you're probably not going to hurt yourself following a fad diet in the short term. The problem is, you might hurt yourself in the long term, even assuming you can continue to follow the diet. Most likely, though, you won't continue to follow it, and you'll gain back all the weight. I can point you to a dozen friends who lost weight on Atkins and gained it all back. Same for the low fat diets. Better to adopt moderation and a well-rounded diet you can stick to rather than cut out a food group.

Me, I'll continue to follow a common-sense diet including all the food groups, reasonable portions, reasonable amounts of fat, lots of veggies and fruits, the right amount of protein, whole grains, and very little fake processed food. It seems to be working just fine for my health and my figure.

The general trick to weight loss is life style changes. Diets as used in the modern vernacular are part of the weight gain problem. Once you've reached your target weight loss you pretty much go back to the habits that got you in trouble in the. Also you metabolism has slowed due to calorie restriction (and old human adaptive mechanism). Your weight shoots right back up and on goes the cycle, which shit cans you metabolism and can lead to chronic fatigue etc. Life style changes, ie those not centered around losing a given amount of weight work best. As to what constitutes a health diet, the jury is still out on that definativley. There are no longevity studies comparing low carb diets to balanced diets. However the effects of high carb., high fat, high processed foods, large portions, high calorie and sedentary life are quite definitively bad for the vast majority of people at least. Type 2 diabetes being the most well defined cause and effect relationship.

Seriously, no one is going to mention "The Seven Year Itch"? I don't know who to side with on this one...

On one hand, the guy seems to be a little over-critical of his wife. I've watched my friends do the same thing. Things that used to be cool suddenly annoy them. They become hypercritical. This usually happens around the same time that they find themselves attracted to someone else and shortly before they either split up or cheat. The guy doesn't sound overly happy in his marriage, regardless of his wife's weight.

On her side, I have put on some weight myself over the last ten years. I grew up as a super-thin-eat-whatever-I-wanted teen and 20something. Then I started putting on weight slowly. The problem is that you almost don't realize HOW MUCH weight you've put on. You still see the skinny woman in the mirror. Then one day you see yourself naked in the mirror and realize what's happened. I thought that it would be easy to work out once I really saw myself, but it's not. It can be overwhelming and in today's instant gratification world, you feel that the results aren't coming in fast enough.

If the guy really wants to make it work with his wife, he should absolutely lead by example. If he's just looking for something to bitch at her about to justify whatever shananigans he's planning, he should let it go.

Amy-- thanks for the references, I'll do some more reading on the subject.

I like Gail's approach, above. Eating sensibly is great, and it definitely includes not eating two meals at a single sitting!

However, leading by example may not be good enough. For me, I've always kept myself in decent shape from the beginning of my relationship until now. When I met my wife, she was 5'2" and 135lbs. After about 6 years she was pushing 170 and I would be remiss if I didn't state that I felt a lot like the LW. Just like someone else posted, indirect hints didn't work, direct criticsm was a no-no, and leading by example simply didn't get the point across.

I was also very concerned about her health, she smoked and is a prime candidate for osteoporosis. Well, through indirect means, we both lost weight, she is now back to 135 and now she can see the difference. She had told me that she was like Renee, she never noticed how big she really had gotten over the years, she still had seen the very same person in the mirrow all that time.

She eats better now and I can tell you that she is much happier and feeling much better. The extra 35lbs she had was far too much for her frame. The one thing that keeps popping up is that we need to remember that 20lbs is relative. We are all not the same size or shape so what may seem like a little bit to you, may not be so small to someone else.

Amy herself had stated that they guy was actually decent. She is privy to more information that we can dream up with the limited amount we have here.

"No, you aren't writing well. We read what you wrote, not what you meant but didn't write."

*Golf Clap*

I guess it's a new day and age to be something to somebody without being anything to them at the same time. Here's to hoping that my girlfriend thinks I'm in fact not only relevant, but would care enough to be healthy and sexy at the same time as I would for her.

"The only thing that's going to keep a person motivated (unless they are depending far, far too much on another person to fill some void of their own) is personal motivation."

This idea that motivation only comes from one source and shouldn't come from anywhere else is misguided and ridiculous. People find motivation everywhere, some find it in church, some find it in rules and laws and some in fact find it from personal trainers. If "personal motivation" was the only way to motivate, the world would be full of sad, lazy, overweight people. Outside motivators are not a negative thing, they are necessary for many. Why are these misconceptions being repeated as truths and perpetuated as fact?

Well, after the clarification, I get what momof3 was saying. It's just the other side of what we often say here, that "you can't make anyone else change", which I think we all accept as truth. The other side of it is, "no one can make me change if I don't want to". And it's equally true.

Yes, a personal trainer can push you. But not until you get motivated to hire one. Yes, you can find motivation in church, but first you have to motivate yourself to put on some clothes, go down to the church, and walk in the door. Yes, you can be motivated by a spouse, but first you have to motivate yourself to pay attention to them.

So what I think momof3 was saying was, "Yes, it's great that my husband likes the fit and trim me. But first I have to decide that that's the way I'm going to be." If momof3 decided that she wanted to be fat and lazy, there might be consequences for herself and her marriage -- but none of that would matter until she decided for herself that she wanted to change. Which is pretty much where the LW's GF seems to be, from what we know of it.

No kids? Ditch this entitled airhead.

"I'm willing to do virtually anything, and pay any amount of money, to see it again."

Easy to see that body type again, and then some - just date some of the other fish in the sea. Your wife has competition. It's your life, you only live once, don't waste it.

Man, davidj likes to show off his stupidity. What part of 7 years and 3 kids did you not read?

"Man, davidj likes to show off his stupidity. What part of 7 years and 3 kids did you not read?"

OK, I missed the part about 3 kids (though I'm not sure what you meant by 7 years, that is irrelevant) - anyone can miss something - but do you really think I'm stupid? You don't realize how laughable that claim is. Or do you just enjoy engaging in the absurdly peurile (and out of place on a forum like this that has grown-ups) pastime of insulting strangers on online forums? I'd gladly enter into any kind of intellectual contest with you anytime - I promise you I will win hands down - I am extremely intelligent (top 0.1%), and can pretty much guarantee that I am far more intelligent than you. So just let me know when you feel like demonstrating your intellectual superiority.

"does NOT mean he gets to chug beers and play video games and get fat"

You're making some pretty wild assumptions here. When the man claims "I have a strong preference for a certain body type", I tend to read into that that he feels capable of attracting a certain quality of mate. And if that's how he feels, then he should go forth and do that. (OK, that was presuming no kids involved.) I still think it's pretty much borderline fraud though for anyone to let themselves go the moment the ring's on the finger. I keep in shape, and very much enjoy the company of women who like to keep in shape too.

PS momof3, excuse me if I miss the odd little thing, but it's not because I'm stupid, I'm just tired from a long day running my software business and it's 3 a.m. here.

i'm fairly sure touting your intellectual prowess is antithetical to your goal, davidj, but go for it.

this is off the general topic of weight and diets, but i have to take task with amy's comments about feminism, and the perception of such i sometimes see around here. most feminists (at least those not using "feminism" as a crutch to do what they want, or those not misconstrued by biassed media) do not say that men should not care about a woman's physical appearance. do they criticise the valuation of a woman solely based on her looks? sure. women should be taught to develop a personality and an intelligence beyond grooming. and feminism criticises the way our society now values only a slim definition of beauty - especially when it’s a beauty that needs to be bought. but everyone values attractiveness, and everyone likes to feel good about their looks. it's ridiculous (and incredibly simplistic) to suggest that either sex or gender should not care about that basic physical attraction.

most feminists ... do not say that men should not care about a woman's physical appearance.

CC any person who still calls themselves a Feminist is an inveterate bigot. Feminism is a Hate ideology pure and simple.

You may have some private definition of Feminism, but it doesn't seem to be in line with what contemporary Feminists actually promote.

I've been quite heavy my entire adult life. I'm 48 and am finally on the path to health and fitness. I can't tell you what finally triggered the change in me...I just seemed to hit a tipping point and I've been exercising regularly for 10 months. I was six months into it before it really took hold as a habit, and now I'm absolutely loving it!

No amount of begging, pleading, loving reminders about my health, social pressures, embarassment, sexual needs, positive/negative comments from friends/loved ones or distain from strangers could have made me do it before I did. When a person is ready, however that comes about, they will do it...for themselves, not for anyone else.

That does not change the fact that while we are overweight we are risking losing the affection of our partner, because attraction is very important. I spent a lot of years wishing this were not so, which was a waste of time and emotional energy.

I agree with Amy and with commoncaite

I'm a feminist. I expect a man I date to care about how I look cos I sure as hell care about how he looks. I expect wives to keep nice for their husband (and vice versa) and I really strongly believe that if women don't wanna have sex with their husbands, they should do a Dan Savage and let them have affairs.

But I don't want someone to be promoted over me in work because they're prettier than me.And I don't want my boss to lech over me or exclude me from office trips to the golf course. I also don't want to earn less than a man for the same job. Now none of those things are currently happening to me and I think it's because of the strides that feminists made before me.

Robert writes: "The one thing I think she left out of her answer, which I believe is a must have inclusion: How does he convey his needs to his wife in such a way that she will make the effort to meet them?"

This is an issue I've been struggling with for some time now. Direct criticism is not going to motivate one's partner, and weight loss requires motivation. But indirection tends to fall on deaf ears.

Two books that have helped me in this area are _The Five Love Languages_ by Gary Chapman and _Love and Respect_ by Emerson Eggerichs. The first claims that five kinds of needs are present to different degrees in everyone: "words of affirmation, quality time, receiving gifts, acts of service, or physical touch." The second simplifies that (in ways that made me critical of it at first) to "wives want love, husbands want respect." They're both Christian books, but I think you can safely ignore the religious parts if you're so inclined.

If you focus on meeting your partner's needs, they will be better able to meet your needs. There's no guarantee but it's more likely to work than if you hold out on being nice to them until they're nice to you first.

"I am extremely intelligent (top 0.1%)" So am here is a cookie for how much I give a shit. Standardized test be they from MENSA or SAT/GRE don't means shit and that would be where you got that 0.1% number.

"long day running my software business" Oh wow your a god for running a software business. Yeah I do that this on the side as an iPhone developer plus I have a real job in medical devices during the day.

"and can pretty much guarantee that I am far more intelligent than you" Oh come on being smarter than warm rice wouldn't be an intellectual yard stick I would tout.

Letterwriter,

Let me help you state your circumstances more directly (clear throat):

You say: "...she said I should be attracted to her no matter what, then said, 'I'm happy with my weight, and don't intend to change it.'"

Translation: She doesn't give a shit.

For people interested in maintaining a vibrant sexual relationship with someone else, the heart stops when that someone says, "Um, I'm not into this weight you packed on..." If she does not have that heart-stop moment, and then act on it, she doesn't give *ENOUGH* of a shit about maintaining your interest to put down that cupcake. Bad sign.

You said: "This sent me into a panic."

Translation: You got pissed. Rightly so. You told her your feeeeeeelings, just like you are supposed to. (Head slap!) Silly man! Don't you know that your feeeeeelings are only supposed to be supportive affirmations of how she wants things to be?

You said: "I'm somewhat and sometimes attracted to her at her current weight,but I would be greatly and frequently attracted if she lost the extra pounds."

Translation: I eventually get horny enough to block out how she looks, but for chrissakes, that belly-roll, muffin-top flab sluicing over her stretch pants grosses me out.

You: I want her to understand that being attracted to her is a basic need, and almost all of my crankiness stems from it not being met.

Tranlsation: She is going to pot by choice and tells me to lump it. I'm pissed.

You said: I've been willing to sacrifice a lot -- like working long hours to support our kids while she pursues a career she loves that generates almost no income.

Translation: I bust my ass. She sits on hers, and there is more ass on her every day. WTF?!

You: I have a strong preference for a certain body type -- the one she used to have

Translation: I don't like having sex with overweight women. She is overweight.

You: I'm willing to do virtually anything, and pay any amount of money, to see it again.

Translation: Maybe I should go to strip bars...or spend money on a girlfriend...or hire an escort?

You: The only thing I'm not willing to do is make her miserable.

Translation: I want to tell her to @$^% off and divorce her indifferent, expanding ass. I will let the kids get a little older, and then I'm done with her. Of course, I'm the asshole for walking out on her at that point, but whatever.

For what it is worth, letterwriter, I don't blame you. It is pretty much the same thing as when a guy quit his job and sits around in sweat pants all day watching NASCAR. Women first reach out, hoping to encourage some ambition. Later they get resentful and withdrawn. Finally, they grow cold and leave. Generally speaking, fat women=no income men.

"When the man claims "I have a strong preference for a certain body type", I tend to read into that that he feels capable of attracting a certain quality of mate."

Not to jump on the DavidJ-bashing bandwagon, but this is a fallacious assumption. The majority of men are hard-wired to prefer a certain body-type, and statistical outliers are just that-- outliers. There are plenty of overweight men out there who are "only attracted" to teh hawt chixx0rz, and sadly, their expectations of finding happiness with one are not realistic. Such men need to work on making themselves hot enough to keep an attractive mate, lest they find themselves being used for their money. I've got a good friend who falls into this pattern time and time again-- I cringe at how much money he has spent on these women, all of whom have used him and left him.

Also, I'm pretty sure a large percentage of the commenters here are in the top 0.1% of IQ, and score-waving is just as unattractive a conversational strategy as dick-waving.

"So am here is a cookie for how much I give a shit." I fall into that category and I can't even type. The number is meaningless, especially after having a conversation with an "average" person.

Ironic-Men marry hoping the woman will not change. Women marry hoping the man will.
Women do typically change for the worst. The man typically does not change much to the dismay of the woman.
What way does the woman change? She goes from girlfriend to... unhappy shrew?
Clarification- When I was dating my ex-wife- I was important and a priority in her life as she was in mine. After marraige her priorities became in order of importance. Her house being clean, our dog, her emotions (how she was feeling at any given time) her family, her job, her friends, planning her next vacation, planning her next purchase of clothes, furniture etc, and me.
What I have seen other men experience- Woman acts like boyfriend is important in her life and she presents herself in an attractive and friendly manner. After marraige- She cuts her hair, stops fixing herself up, has to have children then becomes frustrated with said children because she is clueless as a parent. Wants, wants, wants any number of things. Any desire or expectation not met is assumed to be husbands fault. Finds innumerable faults with husband from the way he chews his food to the way he brushes his teeth. ring a bell to anyone???

Also, I'm pretty sure a large percentage of the commenters here are in the top 0.1% of IQ, and score-waving is just as unattractive a conversational strategy as dick-waving.

Posted by: Melissa G

Plus swinging all that weight around is exausting

Also any negative behavior in a female comes with a litany of excuses that society demands be accepted for said behavior. Examples- I'm depressed, I'm stressed, I'm a single mother, I have so much going on, no one helps me, I have children, etc...

Funny how in our imaginary equal society that none of these excuses are available for men.

"Also, I'm pretty sure a large percentage of the commenters here are in the top 0.1% of IQ"

Doubtful. I hesitate to think about distribution curves after so many years away, but I believe top 0.1% is 1 per 1000 people. That translates into an IQ of upper 140s. At that level, you often find strong correlations with multiple college degrees, consistently superior academic performance, high incomes, and various other markers of achievement.

Even if Ms. Alkon draws her readership from only the top decile of IQ distribution (possible), that would still be, what, one top .1% reader for every 100 readers? If readership is drawn from only the top 5% of IQ, that is still only 1 in 50.

Think about it in terms of height: how many 7 footers are there in a group, even if the crowd is a basketball team? Still not that many, because there are just relatively very few to begin with.

"I am extremely intelligent (top 0.1%), and can pretty much guarantee that I am far more intelligent than you." BTW your vast intellectualness your sparing partner has claimed similar intellectual standings, with the pedigree of Harvard to add to the mix.

I, for one, am not in the "top .1%," but my reading comprehension appears to be a bit more developed than our genius friend.
"You're still not smart enough to keep from making an ass of yourself by saying that." Hee, hee.
I have a theory that the stupidest people in the world are typically convinced that they are the smartest.

"with the pedigree of Harvard to add to the mix."

Not really arguing anything, just saying...

IIRC, the average Harvard undergraduate matriculant had an IQ that translated into 1 in 300 as against the general human population. That is, one half of Harvard College students would be above that line and one half below. So even there, a person who is in the top .1% would still be rare, but not as rare as in a random population. I am too lazy to Google it and see if my memory regarding that Harvard stat is correct, though. You could compare SAT score to distribution tables to see if I am remembering it correctly.

Just saying...

"...she said I should be attracted to her no matter what, then said, 'I'm happy with my weight, and don't intend to change it.'"

Woman meets man. Woman admires man's clean shaven face and tells him often. Tells him how she dislikes beards. They marry and after a few years, man decides that shaving is too much work. He stops shaving and grows a beard. Woman comments that she would be more attracted to him if he was clean shaven as he was when they got married. His reply:

"...he said she should be attracted to him no matter what, then said, 'I'm happy with my beard, and don't intend to change it.'"

I think you're absolutely right, as long as the husband has also kept himself in great shape. If he's also let himself go, he's got no room to complain.

"I am extremely intelligent (top 0.1%), and can pretty much guarantee that I am far more intelligent than you."

Wow, I didn't think I'd ever actually hear or read someone stating that they're one of the most intelligent people in the world. My guess is that this wasn't part of Albert Einstein's schtick.

Perhaps we can all chip in to buy this fella a T-shirt. On the front it would say: "Top Point One Percenter - I'm Smarter Than You"

And on the back it would say: "I'm also an insecure moron who never learned how to talk to girls at parties."

This diet that diet, good calories, bad calories. All very dubious. Only clinical evidence counts. All else is stamp collecting. The fact is that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. No matter what the medical advice, physics rules, and CANNOT be dismissed. The conservation of energy must hold. You get fat when you eat more calories than you burn. Period. Whether protein diets or whatever cause or don't cause harm is a secondary effect.

Calories In - Calories Out = Calories Stored.

Please read the Physics Diet:
http://muller.lbl.gov/TRessays/22-ThePhysicsDiet.htm

Davidj,

I've known intelligent people. I've known world class martial artists. None of them has ever bragged. None. Ever.

So everyone is going to just ignore my oversized penis joke then?

I know that my fiance loves me - but it's pretty clear that we both enjoy each other's physiques. If I completely let myself go not only would it affect how attracted he is, but he'd be mentally put off. To start consuming everything in sight and stop working out would be a fundamental change from the person I am right now - someone who cares about health, her body and enjoys being in shape.

He leads a similar lifestyle. If he suddenly let himself go I know I'd be less attracted and lose respect for him (barring physical illness). It's just not the way we both live, so if one of us changed drastically in this way it would change the person. So yes - gaining a bunch of weight is a good reason to stop being sexually AND mentally into someone.

The husband may be being overly critical (20lbs. over 7 years...could be worse) but the wife sounds selfish. Not only does she not care about her body but she doesn't care about her husband and their marriage. What if he made a fundamental change to his lifestyle - like what if he got a girlfriend and said "you gotta love me anyway"? He didn't marry a supermodel and he doesn't claim to want one now, he just wants back the same women he committed himself to (however: maybe she never cared in the first place and time/gravity is finally catching up?).

I'm not ignoring it, I'm just trying to come up with an oversized vagina joke.

Lujlp, when you're not on Amy's site, are you actually playing the role of "Sal" on Dennis Miller's show?! :-)

You do keep us all smiling, perhaps even the 0.001% intelligence folks too!

"(20lbs. over 7 years...could be worse)"

The problem is that 20lbs. over 7 years turns into 40lbs. over 14 years turns into 60lbs. over 21 years.

My wife gained 10-15 pounds over the last couple of years. I think she still looks great, but she is concerned that it is a slippery slope, so she joined a gym. BTW, she is 54 and losing that 10-15 pounds will bring her back to 125.

She has also said that if she gained a lot of weight, it would show that she doesn't respect our relationship.

Yes, I know how lucky I am.

No Looj, we're not ignoring your joke. Some of us are still reeling from discovering that you're 6 foot 3.

And simultaneously laughing and shuddering from the "thankles" reference. Euh.

Actually, I pointed out during an Obama thread that I was accepted at Harvard, and that's it's not hard to do. I wasn't bragging. I'm smart in some ways and stupid in others, although I like to think I learn from my mistakes.

I like being here, and one big reason is learning debate from people rather good at it. A few people here are quite good at it. It inspires me, and helps a little with the mommy brain.

And just to toss my piss-mark out there, I've never met a standardized test that didn't like me :) and I never saw a college rejection letter either. Or a failing grade. So what? Doesn't matter. Reading the post before commenting is probably a good idea, whether you think you're smart or not. Getting the facts right, you know.

My point on a man getting fat while playing video games was in response to another poster saying her man had earned that right by working, not talking about the LW, who may be in fine shape, although I doubt it.

In any event, he can't make her change. He can accept it or leave, really. Those are the things he controls.

Most of the people here think, which puts them ahead of the general population, even if they aren't "1%-ers".

Maybe they could work out together. I think the act alone of exercising together is supposed to boost attraction.

No Looj, we're not ignoring your joke. Some of us are still reeling from discovering that you're 6 foot 3.

And simultaneously laughing and shuddering from the "thankles" reference. Euh.

Posted by: Juliana

Yea the thackles thing just popped into my head, I saw the feet cancles first and the realised there was no definition between the thighs and calfs either.

But why would my being six foot e have you reeling?

Let me throw something out there, if I might. Assuming that their kids were born after they were married, and that they don't have any paid help with the kids (nannies/daycare), she's wrangling three young children essentially on her own, which can be pretty overwhelming. Maybe she sees this request to get back in shape (regardless of whether it's justified) as just another demand on her when she's already juggling all she can. My suggestion to the husband would be to offer to watch the kids a few hours a week so she can get to the gym, workout with friends, attend a Weight Watchers meeting, whatever. Losing weight is a BIG project and not an easy one to undertake when there's already a lot on your plate.

This guy isn't selling me on the "my wife is the problem" thing. He sounds like a real douche. He hasn't shown any sensitivity towards his wife at all. All he says is that SHE is fat and LAZY yet he has made all of the sacrifices in the relationship by...going to work (wow - big man it's called be a grown up you twit). There is usually more than just sloth and overeating behind excess weight gain: There’s insecurity, loneliness, a dozen other reasons… including low self-esteem, that sometimes comes from having a partner who’s never fully accepting of you as you are. Perhaps the husband should be addressing those issues rather than accusing her of being fat and lazy. Also - I would be very upset if my husband blamed HIS asshole (oops - he called it "cranky") behaviour was blamed on me. Take responsibility for your own emotions jerkoff - maybe you are "cranky" because of YOU and not her overweight butt.

Sure - I am all for looking good and staying in shape...I just think that there is more going on here than the "fat, lazy" wife is destroying the marriage. I think hubby needs to realize that his attitude is probably contributing to the problem.

I actually wish my husband cared about my weight because it would be a great motivation. If he does care, it doesn't seem to show. I've gone down 30 or 40 pounds from dieting before, and while I enjoyed sex far more being thin, my husband did not seem more any more attracted to me then than now.

I am a few chapters into "Good Calories Bad Calories." It's not an easy book to breeze through. I've started by cutting out sweets even though there is a shitload of Easter candy in the house. It's been surprisingly easy - after a day or two without it, my desire is gone.

Still not one sensible rebuttal!

"Also, I'm pretty sure a large percentage of the commenters here are in the top 0.1% of IQ, and score-waving is just as unattractive a conversational strategy as dick-waving."

Except that everybody completely misread the statement, that wasn't what I was doing - I was merely responding to momof3's peurile "stupid" insult, and I maintain that is valid, there is absolutely no virtue in calling someone "stupid" on an online forum. I suppose everybody here agrees then that it's fine to call people "stupid" on online forums, but not fine to defend against such an insult. That says a lot, and not about me. If this forum is so wonderful, why do the commenters overtly support calling people "stupid" on it? That's really logical.

"What are you, 14?"

No, "14" is making comments like momof3's, sorry you can't tell the difference.

Still not one sensible rebuttal!

I'm sorry, what was the sensible point that deserved rebuttal, again?

Hey DavidJ, making comments before reading the letter is a stupid thing to do, ok? The fact that the couple had children was not an easy thing to miss. Can't you just admit that you made a mistake?

The LW is screwed. Now that he is married with kids his leverage over her behavior is enormously reduced.

Realistically speaking, if he had the skills to get his wife to change he probably would have qualified for a better wife to begin with.

Thats how us guys with game do it...no need to buy a fixer upper when u can get a good one....FOR THE SAME PRICE.

Hint: getting his wife to change will require occasional strategic moments of "making her miserable." It is a bad sign that he wont consider this...it suggests he is at a novice level when it comes to people skills.

His best hope now is to work on self improvement ... both personally and professionally.

This will enable him to choose a better future wife/gf/lover and/or give him the skills to deal successfully with his current situation.

And yeah: personal improvement is not JUST working out...its also about developing your people skills. Hard to do when ur married with kids but he doesnt have any easy choices at this juncture.

Other Lily - Lol

Other Lily - I meant to type, good question

Hi Amy,

Thanks, I do check your blog every day, even if I don't comment. I've purchased some Anthelios through Amy's Mall too.

Okay... I am not defending this woman, especially if she gained the weight on purpose, BUT before he married her did he make it absolutely clear that her failure to remain a hot piece of ass would seriously affect his feelings for her.... OR did he just hope that she would never change... In my mind, he is just as responsible for this situation as she is... he at any point BEFORE getting married could have been honest with her and said this is a deal breaker for me... if he didn't that was his fault...

Seems to me that most of relationship questions that Amy answers come down to a lack of honesty between the people involved... nobody wants to risk looking small about stuff like this so they just cross their fingers and hope like hell that all of their needs will be met without having to discuss it....and that's why the divorce rate is 50%

Now, if they did have that conversation and she knew his feelings going into it... well then, I guess she is telling you what she thinks of you LW.... it sounds like your relationship, if not your marriage (you do have 3 kiddos), is effectively at an end... find a way to fix the relationship or get used to a lot of lonely nights until the kids leave home...

Honesty is WAAAAAY overrated.

This is because what people say and what people do usually have ZERO correlation.

Having said this...it is important to be honest with others because no one trust a liar.

You are not REQUIRED to answer other people's questions however. There are social situations where the act of answering is the losing play..because it shows weakness and low status. Everyone should take a day or two where they don't answer any question they are asked...they should practice deflection, misdirection and the outright ignore. This is a good exercise.

If the extent of your people persuasion skills extends to asking them to be "honest" and then expecting them to live up to their words...well then you can expect a life of continual disappointment.

There is nowhere in life this is more true than in romance, courtship and marriage.

The real way to get what you want out of life and other people is to practice your persuasion and people skills.

There are books on this stuff...but reading them is about 2% of the work involved. To get any good you have to go out and PRACTICE. With real people.

To apply this little lecture to above situation:

The man with moderate experience is clear about his needs and desires before marriage...this provides no defense to a woman who either lies or honestly changes her mind. You're married with kids. Sucker. She was playing hardball and you WERENT.

So much for honesty.

A man with advanced experience is clear about his needs and desires beforehand...but this is the smallest part of his relationship happiness strategy.

His real defense is he understands people so well he chooses a woman who IS that sort of person he desires...and he encourages her continual good behavior with his highly developed people skills.

Honesty is nearly irrelevant...he knows how the world/people works and he picked his partner and his behavior accordingly.

ROFLOL @ lujip's "dick-waving!" Who knew it was a lethal weapon? ;)

I do agree with everything Amy said, but I'm not sure how helpful it is for the LW. If the wife had written in, telling her all that stuff about women would have been a helpful reality check. Telling the guy is not going to help much... what's he supposed to do, go to his wife and say "This advice columnist said you should lose weight... see! I told you so!" I don't think that is going to help.

So LW... here's a list.

* Don't bring junk food into the house. Ever. If she doesn't buy it, don't sabotage her by bringing it in.
* I assume she does the cooking... ask specifically for low-fat foods, ie, "Remember that chili you made the other night? That was so good! Can we have it again?"
* If she's experimenting with cooking light, don't complain if you don't like it... she might have to figure it out
* If you cook, cook low-fat
* When you go out, chose options like sushi
* Go do fun stuff every weekend that involves exercise, if you can. Hiking, walks on the beach, hell, even a walk to town would be better than nothing.
* If she begins an effort, however timidly, support her and help her, and ask what you can do to help
* If you can, do the grocery shopping and buy low-fat things. It sounds like you're very busy so it might not be an option.

Gaining 20 pounds after having three kids isn't passive-aggressiveness, laziness, or an indicator of psychological issues; it's baby weight. Caused by the fact that-duh-this woman is having babies, which causes weight gain, and not just 20 pounds-generally more like 40 pounds per kid. So the fact that the LW's wife isn't 100 pounds overweight is a sign that she wants to lose the weight, has made some effort to do so, and is probably just stuck on those last 20 pounds.

This isn't the case of someone bankrolling a flower-arranging trophy wife who has nothing better to do than get her ass to the gym for 3 hours a day. Or a golddigger who decides to gain 50 pounds once the ring is on her finger. LW's wife is taking care of 3 kids under age 7, which IMO qualifies as a full-time job, equivalent to the LW's fulltime job of providing for the family.

That being said, losing weight takes motivation sure, but it also takes time and resources. That's why you see celebrities bounce back to their prebaby weights within months-because they have personal trainers, personal chefs, nutritionists, home gyms, and nannies to watch their kids while they're getting back into shape. Obviously this isn't practical for the average family, but LW could still make an effort to support his wife. Do the grocery shopping to make sure that only healthy foods come into the house (better for the kids too!) Offer to watch the kids or hire a sitter on a regular basis so wife can exercise/go to WW meetings/whatever. Purchase an exercise equipment or Wii fit. Focus on family activities that involve exercise. Make the focus on the family getting healthier, rather than "Honey you need to lose 20 pounds." Sure, you can TELL your wife this until you're blue in the face, but providing the tools and support for her to lose weight will be much more effective.

My point on a man getting fat while playing video games was in response to another poster saying her man had earned that right by working, not talking about the LW, who may be in fine shape, although I doubt it.

It isn't the video games that made me fat. It's the crackers and cookies and chips and soda that made me fat.

Amy - I somehow doubt your "energy of a 17 year old" remark and will take it to mean "I feel great". I feel great too and certainly do not claim to have that kind of energy. Every week I play up to 6 games of ball hockey, run 30-40km and throw in a few hours of badminton here and there (maybe every 2 weeks). Now that is a lot of energy and I still won't compare it to a 17 year old!!

By the way - that kind of exercise absolutely requires carb intake. As a matter of fact - this kind of lifestyle allows me to eat pretty much anything I want. I will have to be careful the day that I am no longer able to keep it up though (I am 37 and probably won't be able to keep up the same pace forever!)

As long as you burn more calories than you consume, you will lose weight.

Amy, the only criticism of your plan that I have is that eating like you do doesn't work for people with portion-control problems, because being hungry has nothing to do with it.

I was always a bit chunky growing up because I was raised by Depression-era parents who insisted I cleaned my plate. As an adult, I had no idea when I was full, so I would just keep eating until it was gone, whether it was bacon and eggs or low-fat cookies. The only thing that helped was counting calories and measuring out portions so I could learn what a reasonable amount of food was.

I'm now 31 and weigh about 15 pounds less than I did in high school, and that would not have been possible without completely reteaching myself how to eat.

"Gaining 20 pounds after having three kids isn't passive-aggressiveness, laziness, or an indicator of psychological issues; it's baby weight." Horse shit. 1-2 lbs I can see but 20, no. Outside the US this shit does not happen and we are not genetically different enough from the rest of the world to explain this. Too much food and being lazy accounts for the weight. You can do one or the other but not both.

"equivalent to the LW's fulltime job of providing for the family." Right and yet he stays in great shape as per Amy. So the full time mom excuse is bullshit again.

I get no sense that the wife wants to lose the weight. If he said anything about her trying I'd buy the no time for the gym idea. She's got him by the balls with three kids, she knows this and so does he. The women is a harpy and a shrew. My advice to the LW (since he did the lead by example thing) get a tub of KY and a porn subscription.

"His real defense is he understands people so well he chooses a woman who IS that sort of person he desires...and he encourages her continual good behavior with his highly developed people skills." Ha your hilarious if you think this shit works on all but the most damaged adult women, they tend to be better at this shit. Now you can slowly grind her down using basic psych and mold her into a compliant servant. However this leads to one of those people that can not make decisions for themselves. I have seen this done to both men and women and the results are not pretty. If that's what you are into cool someone has to take the damaged goods created by real life. I would get fairly bored with that after a while, door mats are fun for a few days at best.

"Or, if you're never not hungry, it's possible you have a medical problem and should see your doctor." I was raised by revolutionary war era Russian grand parents. You get smacked for not cleaning the plate. So it's more than emotional hunger vs physical hunger. There is a whole load of physiology associated with eating patterns like this.

On low carb diets you still have to practice portion control but you can eat more and still lose the weight without exercise for some. However if you practice portion control on all culinary lifestyle choices (diets have a double meaning) you tend to get good results. If you don't practice portion control your screwed on any path. It's just a lot harder to do so with high sugar and refined carb diets.

"you feel sick in a way you don't by eating a whole bunch of cookies." No Amy YOU feel sick when you do that. I can comfortably suck down a 3+ lb steak with not ill effects beyond feeling unpleasantly full, and I'm not the only one. I can eat more if the meat is good quality and the rarer the better.

"Women in France who are mothers are not fat." BTW the french diet is neither low carb or low fat (BECHAMEL SAUCE is like liquefied buttered bread) but it's portion controlled to a draconian level by American standards. That's why much french food is so feared by dietitians. The stuff is high in just about everything and if you eat a Mega meal size portion your in deep shit nutritionally.

I'm going to get Taubes book now. I've gained and lost and gained the same 60 pounds so many times now it's making me dizzy.

Oddly enough, though, my experience with Europe is that they eat a ton of carbs, particularly in the form of bread and potatos. I've never seen a breakfast table there that didn't involve tartines and/or croissants. Yet I always lose weight there. Must be the exercise. I walk more.

I did lose a bunch of weight when I went vegan, without even trying to lose weight. I think this actually backs up Amy's point... I wasn't eating refined flours and sugars because of the bone filter thing, and I was paying extra attention to labels to make sure I was getting my nutrients. So I think I was accidently following the very diet she is talking about.

They are not as thin as they were in their 20s, surely, but they take care of themselves.

Glad you qualified this, as I was going to mention that while you don't see the levels of obesity in France that you do in the US, not all the women are très mince. Many are what I would classify as "normal," not model thin or Amy thin. But it's true that they do take care of themselves, and you don't see women shlepping around in baggy sweats or velour tracksuits and flip-flops.

"and you don't see women shlepping around in baggy sweats or velour tracksuits and flip-flops." With "Juicy" in big pink letters across the back, in sized more appropriate for hippos.

By the way, Amy, I didn't mean to imply that you are in any way "abnormal," just that you are very slender.

Amy - I mentioned MY daily expenditure of energy absolutley required carbs in order to be able to keep going. So how can I say that? Quite simply - here - I will say it again:

MY lifestyle REQUIRES carb intake in order to continue.

QUOTING AMY:

"Don't have time to dispute now. But here: Eat what I do for lunch today -- a hamburger made of 27 percent fat, with melted cheese on top. You won't be hungry in 20 minutes like you will if you eat a low-fat, high-carb lunch. The insulin description in this column is correct."

"P.S. I weigh less than I did in high school eating like this, I don't get hungry, and I don't need to exercise at all to maintain it -- just don't want a saggy ass and inactive lungs."

"I eat bacon and eggs and hamburgers, vegetables in olive oil, and cheese and salami. I'm not hungry, and I'm thin, and if I never exercised, I'd still be thin from eating this way. I also have the energy of a 17-year-old."

REPLY:

Amy, first let me say, I'm glad that your ass is not in danger of sagging! :)
And I don't dispute the thing about not being as hungry. I was just referring to the physics of dieting and weight loss in my earlier message. Basically it doesn't matter (for weight) where your calories come from.
Meats and fats take longer to digest so you don't get hungry as fast. However, diets like Atkins work primarily because they are low calorie.
If you don't want to have that hungry feeling when your meals have carbs in them (carbs get digested and calories absorbed quite quickly) you have to include fibre. Fibre is zero calories by definition because it is not absorbed by the body and provides bulk to give that 'full' feeling and it's good for your digestive system.
Also, the brain can only use glucose/glycogen as a fuel source and that comes from carbs. Proteins can be converted to glycogen by the body, but that is a round about way.
And finally you need to exercise to maintain muscle tone and aerobic/cardio fitness. Nothing worse than a skinny person with floppy muscles. :)
I recommend Covert Bailey's "Fit or Fat". He's a biochemist gone diet-dude.
Useful link: http://www.ehow.com/about_4601012_why-does-body-need-glycogen.html

I picked up the Taubes book today and started reading it.

I may give it a go... since my cholesteral and blood pressure are low, then if it turns out he's wrong, and I end up raising them a bit I'll still be ok. And if he turns out NOT to be wrong, then hooray!

You guys sound like a bunch of shallow brats. I am never getting married if that is what guys are like after you give them your body and go through screaming pain to have a baby for them. I want to stay a VIRGIN FOREVER!

Peter,

You sound like a pleasant person to be around. I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you are either single, or have a doormat girlfriend. Do you even have the capacity to have a normal relationship, or are you constantly trying to manipulate any situation to your advantage? I feel sorry for you. Honestly.

" I am never getting married if that is what guys are like after you give them your body and go through screaming pain to have a baby for them."

Unfortunately, there are plenty of women who "give up their bodies and go through screaming pain" to have a baby FOR THEMSELVES.

And, at the beginning of the thread, I didn't say that my husband was "getting fat while playing video games" and that he "had earned that right by working." What I DID say was, "my husband works his ass off and affords me a lifestyle that I really enjoy. If he'd rather blow off steam drinking a few beers or playing video games than working out, I think he's earned that." He's not fat at all, and I don't have to do much around the house. (That's part of the "lifestyle I really enjoy" part.)

"you give them your body and go through screaming pain to have a baby for them." If you have no desire to be a mom well shit then don't. Otherwise remember you wanted the kid too. I can't fucking stand when any women pulls this card. It's his baby when it's bad or you want break. It's your baby that he has to pay for when support issues come up. Funny how that works out.

The only reason your body goes to seed after having kids is that you let it.

Yes, and for some lifestyles and activities, carbs are absolutely necessary.

http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/Seminar_Fluid_Energy.pdf

I'm 50, I'm 5'10" and I weigh 134. I do weight training once a week and go to yoga once a week. I walk alot, and only eat real food. I don't diet, and the most I've ever weighed is 148. I just wanted to add my bit here, that it is possible to have a hot body and not be a movie star with a personal trainer & plastic surgeon.

BTW, I agree that the woman has no interest in sex and is hiding behind the fat. No amount of talking is going to make her lose the weight. She's probably hoping he'll stick around without sex.

I have no idea what these kinds of women think that men are. "I want unconditional love and acceptance from you, and for you to love me for what's inside" I guess they should be married to an angel or Santa Claus. Men have needs, and so do women, so grow up!

...Because I'm sure this guy looks exactly the same as he did 7 years ago, and is slaving away at the gym and making appointments with the hair club for men to make sure he retains his lustrous hair and pert ass.

Hrmph.

And as others have said, 20 pounds in seven years after a couple of kids isn't the end of the world.

Better than bitching at her would probably be taking up some active hobbies WITH her and the kids. Go for walks. Go hiking on weekends. Do something to get your collective heart rates up instead of saying "Your hotness is a basic need for me," because you know what? It's not.

Basic needs are food, water, and shelter. It may be a basic WANT for him, and that's fine, but it's not a need. People in third world countries aren't pining away for hot wives instead of dinner. I sense a little drama queen in this guy.

Also, what's he going to do when his wife gets wrinkles, start sagging in places that have nothing to do with fat, goes grey? "I'm sorry, your hotness is a basic need for me. I'm going to have to put you on an ice floe now."

Eh?

Maybe this has less to do with his wife's ass and more to do with his midlife crisis. Clearly, if she's getting less attractive, so is he, therefore he is no longer the Fun Young Carefree Guy he used to be, therefore he is mortal, OH MY GOD, but if he can just nag his wife into shape, everything will be okay, right? RIGHT?

Dude. Buy a sports car.

seacalmed:HA! You made me think "Me Too!", but then I remembered that it's umpteen partners and a couple of kids too late for me to STAY a virgin ;)

Am I the only obese person who reads Amy's column regularly? It seems to me that nearly everyone who comments is very pro fitness.Good for you guys[and gals].But I love it whenever there's a sensible "men care about looks" observation from Amy, and then it degrades into a "Fat chicks don't have a chance in hell of being loved and desired by a decent man." bitch fest.
Especially the assumptions that fat women date men who make less money than the men whom thin women date.
My last three boyfriends were a corporate attorney, a firefighter, and an environmental electrical systems engineer-in that order.Most of my friends are fat as well-and they were fat when they met their husbands.They all have combined household incomes of near or over $150,000 a year.
I don't have low self esteem, I'm not lazy,and I wear clothing that isn't made out of lycra or spandex. I think Amy's gorgeous. But if she and I were sitting in the same room, none of the men whom I've dated would be attracted to her-she doesn't have a big fat ass! likewise, none of the men who've dated her would be interested in me. But if we averaged the salaries of all of our past loves between us, I'm pretty certain that they'd come out even.

Good point, dizedd, but you're sort of confirming a lot of what's being said here. People like what they like. LW likes a thin lady. Men who date you like a plump lady. This guy is attracted to a certain body type, and his wife isn't interested in being attrative to him.

ahw-true, but if I wrote Amy telling her that my husband was complaining because I'd lost 50 lbs,I doubt that she'd publish it, or that the commenters would all think I was reneging on my marital partnership because I "just didn't care enough" to keep myself FAT :)

I agree with afurrica, he needs to stop working so hard and only earn enough money to pay for the house, water and basic food, MRE's are cheap when you buy a gross at a time.

He can spend all his free time indulging his obbies and reconnecting with his kids.

And if the couch potatpo wants cake and ice cream she can get a job and pay for it herself

Good call afurrica

@vlad

Please. My advice hews to the highest ethical standard. "Molding a compliant servant" by undermining their self esteem and isolating them is NOT what im suggesting. Ick.

In any case I don't see how anyone could argue with
1) exercising your character judgment in picking a partner
2) managing your own behavior in a relationship so as to encourage your partner treating you well.

Whats YOUR strategy? Pick a partner at random? Behave however you will with no ear for what messages you're sending your partner?

And when it all goes to crap you shrug your shoulders and say..."i guess it was fate!"

@renee

Actually I'm VERY charming.

Although im not being charming right now...so bear with me :)

However...I had to WORK at being charming...instead of being born with it or developing it naturally.

I'm sure you like charming people. Thats a definition of charming btw.

You are aware that charming people get their way more often right? They are naturally persuasive and the other sex flocks to them.
But thats okay with you. I know it is because its okay with everyone. Its human nature.

With the exception of when I'M persuasive. Evidently its not okay with you then...cause I'm being "manipulative"

But wait...why is it okay when the other charming guys are persuasive...but not me? :(

Evidently its the fact that I had to WORK at being charming...instead of being born with it.

Wow. Is that really how you view self-improvement? Because thats ALL we are talking about here. SELF IMPROVEMENT.

Its unfortunate that all these GREAT people qualities...like charming, persuasive, charismatic...when dissected and analyzed turn out to be applications of some very crude and basic human psychology.

If you tell people you're learning to be charismatic...people will applaud.

Tell people you're learning how to capture their hearts by playing on their fears, hopes and dreams...and they think your a baaaad person.

My only crime here is talking about this stuff. Out loud. Yet....how can you teach this without talking about it.. clinically, scientifically and analytically. You can't.

Getting back to the LW: He wants to improve his situation. Hes tried all the tools in his toolbox. Nothing works.

Conclusion: He needs new tools. Of a very particular sort. Enter stage left---self improvement.

Wait...wait....he needs to learn how to be charming. Sorry. Evidently this is bad because it would make him more persuasive and thus he could ....GASP...manipulate people :(

Too bad he wasn't born charming or learned it early on then all the hypocrites (ahem..renee...ahem) would be ok with it.

My advice? Screw the hypocrites and learn how to be charming, charismatic and smooth. The more the better. I want so much smooth and charming dripping off my man Weighed-Down that when u wiki "man-tastic" you'll see his picture right there at the top.

And once you're charming everyone will love you! Even those people who get oh so offended by my advice...they will think you are funny,interesting and awesome to be around. Because you are.

Sure YOU had to work at it...but guess what...you can't tell that.

"You guys sound like a bunch of shallow brats. I am never getting married if that is what guys are like after you give them your body and go through screaming pain to have a baby for them. I want to stay a VIRGIN FOREVER!"

Hmm interesting. So after you have a baby, then it’s okay to let yourself go? This is the thing I find so funny about North America. We all know that if we do not give at least a passing effort in our jobs that we will be fired, that if we don’t maintain our houses and cars that they will fall apart, and if we do not regularly make the effort to follow our fav television shows then we will miss important plot points, if we don’t make the effort to contact our friends, the companionship dwindles away and dies. What am I saying? Simply that ALL THINGS WORTHWHILE TAKE EFFORT, there are far too many North Americans who figure that once the ring is on the finger (or you get a nice LTR) there is no more need to make one. If you don’t use it you will lose it, which is pretty ubiquitous yet, people wonder why they let their health go, or their relationship and their spouses are a little upset. Hmm, gee I wonder?

Sure this letter and this thread has been about attractiveness, but is there not something more? Am I mistaken, but don’t people find HEALTH attractive? Tell me, when is it NOT a good idea to steward one’s health? Here’s a newsflash, guess what the #1 disease which kills women in North America is. Breast Cancer, sorry, choose again. HEART DISEASE!! And what lifestyle situations contribute to Heart Disease? Inactivity, smoking, and a bad diet to name a few.

If more people just followed their Dr’s recommendations, I bet that there would be less people with image issues and less health issues as well. Life is a bucket of water with a hole in it. If you do not pour more water into the bucket, it will eventually run dry. If you don’t want to make an effort, don’t complain that you aren’t respected similar to the people who do.

Cholesterol. For people with high cholesterol and/or heart conditions
a high fat diet is not healthy. Why do people never suggest eating reasonably and exercising, instead of just changing diet? Exercise is helpful to extending life, improving mood, adding energy, strength, and preventing other disease and injury. Don't let a change of diet be your only contribution to health. And change your diet for the sake of a sexy slim body AND and healthy one.

"Gaining 20 pounds after having three kids isn't passive-aggressiveness, laziness, or an indicator of psychological issues; it's baby weight." Horse shit. 1-2 lbs I can s45ee but 20, no. Outside the US this shit does not happen and we are not genetically different enough from the rest of the world to explain this."

Guys, I'm not saying that having kids provides gives you a license to go through life 20 pounds overweight. And my response would be different if the kids were 15-you can't call it baby weight when the kids are out of diapers. But the fact that LWs wife has had 3 kids within 7 years points to a direct and logical reason why she's gained weight. Pregnancy causes weight gain-yes, even for the French. Ideally women would be able to recover back to their old shape, but if LWs wife has popped out 3 kids in 5-6 years then her body is probably still in the recovery process. Suggesting that she's gained weight to avoid sex or spite her husband seems pretty silly IMO.

For the record, I looked up statistics on obesity internationally. It's 30.6% for US-which is pretty damn horrible, but it's also 9.4% in France. So it's not like no one in France is fat-that's still 1 out of every 10 people.

Dizedd, you're not the only fat person who reads this column, I'm fat, too, and have had a lifelong (well, since I was 10 or so, so I guess a 22-year-long) struggle with food. I've been just about every dress size there is, several times. I've done all sorts of dieting... fasting, low-fat, low-calorie, high exercise, vomiting, etc. (I had some self-esteem issues in my youth which have been largely resolved, unfortunately some bad habits still remain)Obviously, none of these were stuck to, or I wouldn't be fat again. I have a basic pattern... gain weight for a few years, be fat for a few years, lose weight for a few years, be thin for a few years, repeat.

I've been loved at every size, and ignored at every size... I've found male attraction has more to do with my dress and behavior than whatever size I am.

The fact that I am fat and in a good relationship does not change the fact that my being fat is a flaw that should be worked on. The fact that I haven't solved my food issues doesn't mean that I should stop trying to solve them. My overeating IS a character flaw. My acknowledgement that it is one doesn't make me self-loathing. Acknowledgement of one's faults doesn't make you neurotic.

And yeah, there are chubby chasers out there. Guys who are into huge boobs will also give you have them. I've never lacked male attention, at any size. Does that mean I shouldn't keep trying to lose weight? Of course not. It's a struggle, but the answer to a struggle isn't go give up.

er it should read, "Will also give you slack if you have them", not "will also give you have them" which makes no sense

Whenever I feel like emotional eating, I try to eat an entire bunch of celery. That gets me over it pretty quickly! And even if I do down the whole bunch, well, it was celery!

DavidJ, I would be more convinced of your mindblowing smartitude if you could spell "puerile" right.

Jesus, but Amy makes me pee my pants laughing. Seriously though, she is so right about the carbs. My doctor told me a long time ago that he thinks the low fat thing is a conspiracy. If you look at the low fat dietary label, once they lower the fat, the carbs go up. Carbs are addicting as hell. Take it from a carb addict. Anyway....that isn't even LW's problem. His wife hates him and wants out. Watch how fast she loses that 20 when she decides its time to change her life and get out. I know because I was once in her shoes.

(have not read the comments, just the column!)

All nice and well, but nobody has ever nagged a pound off anyone (isn't that one of your sayings, Amy?) and making her feel like she has to do this thing for you is only going to make her resentful. Then she'll still be the same weight AND your relationship will detoriate.

A much better route would be to go do active things together - a dance class, fun cycle tours, get into rockclimbing or geocaching or whatever. Find a hobby or activity they both enjoy which involves being active. But he better keep his mouth shut about the 'losing weight' benefit or she'll just feel manipulated again.

You think it's going to help when he nags her? I notice that you ignore my suggestion and just react to the keeping his mouth shut.

I didn't say 'keeping his mouth shut' altogether. Just when introducing fun active things to do together, don't focus on "and it'll be good for you!" or "And you'll lose weight too!" but concentrate on the fact that it'll be a fun activity and a bonding time for them together.

If someone was pressuring me to lose weight, they could suggest something absolutely awesome to me, but if it came along with "And it'll make you lose weight!" I would be pretty likely to lose enthusiasm instead of weight.

If he brings it as "Honey, I've always wanted to learn jive dancing, let's take a class together" she is far more likely to go for it and enjoy herself. That way the goal is 'having fun learning to dance' and it becomes a self-motivating activity with side benefits, rather than yet another gym-like result-judged activity where she'll fail (and therefore get demotivated and stop) if she isn't losing weight.

I do also think that 10 kilo after multiple children is less the issue to him than her refusal to be unhappy about it. Unless she's still gaining, I think he's pretty damn demanding here by wanting her to lose all of it and 'become the person she was' (before she went through multiple pregnancies).

I rarely disagree with your advice, but I think you are not realistic here. You may be right, the guy might be right, but it's not what's going to lead to the desired result of the woman losing weight.

My idea may or may not lead to her losing weight, but it'll pretty definitely to them both becoming fitter and more closely bonded. I'm not seeing the downside there.
I can't believe you're declaring that exercise isn't important and even counter productive. Fit is more important from a health POV than thin. But I guess I haven't heard this guy about his wife's health, just about her weight..

Exercise can add weight simply for the fact that muscle is more dense than fat or other tissues. So if you replace fat with muscle, you may actually weigh more as the result. It also tends to increase your metabolic rate - hence the hunger. But you can eat more if you're exercising, without becoming fat.

Unfortunately the types of exercise that are typically promoted nowadays are both humiliating and ineffectual. Waving your arms up and down a few times, or sitting on a ball, isn't going to do much. You have to do hours and hours of this sort of thing for it to have any effect.

"My idea may or may not lead to her losing weight, but it'll pretty definitely to them both becoming fitter and more closely bonded. I'm not seeing the downside there."

Which is good in theory. However, from a guy who has been there, I agree with Amy that your approach isn't nearly as effective in practice. Just like one needs to step into things slowly, a couch potato isn't going to suddenly agree to activities which are very taxing. In the past, my wife bought a bike and we rode (at her suggestion, not mine) together and the bike has been used about 5 times in the 2.5 years that it was purchased.

Why, she found it too much, which most likely lead to a feeling of dread anytime I ever suggested another bike ride. Dance can be fun, it may work, but if she feels like warmed over crap when she's done, once again, may not happen again.

As for keeping his mouth shut, I agree that nagging can have a detrimental effect on her self esteem and lead to her resenting him, however, why then does he be the one to bear the resentment? As I said I've been there and done that and I can tell you that although I would never dream of leaving my wife, it used to really upset me to catch her checking me out because she liked what she saw yet I couldn't do the same.

Like I said earlier, it boggles my mind that people stop making an effort in their marriages and wonder why things go to pot. Life takes effort, there are no free rides.

Amy, I've decided to go low-carb for a month and see what it does for my energy levels.

This is going to be hard in an Italian family, but I really want to test this for myself.

"Exercise causes people to be hungrier, in short, according to laws of energy conservation: "Now the same law of energy conservation that decrees that calories in equal calories out, tells us that any increase in energy expenditure will have to induce a compensatory increase in intake" Um no. I'm with Taubes on refined carbs but not this. First a fat ass has to carry more wight then a thin person. Yes muscle weighs more than fat at the same volume. Fat volume is much easier to build and many people just don't have a limits, muscle mass has a limit. Also the body has peak performance criteria not dissimilar from most mechanical systems. The calories burned by an athlete at low pace run is actually less than a fat person walking through the mall. This is part due to ke=1/2 mvsqr and part to to a more efficient metabolism. Every study done shows more weight loss with diet and excersise than just diet. Now if you jog 5 miles and then eat two domino's pizzas by yourself it won't work. The concept of discounting excersise is crap, eat more calories than you burn causes weight loses via conservation of energy.

I would like to try going low carb, too. Any suggestions on how far I need to go with it? For example, Amy, do you keep the bun on the cheeseburger, or do you throw it away? I just don't want every meal to be a huge challenge.

Yes, I'd like to know how far you take it, too. I eat mostly vegetarian, so cutting out fruit and some veggies might be difficult. I'll have to cut out my evening beer, but I can manage that without too much hardship. This morning's breakfast was plain homemade yogurt and strawberries, which seems a little high in carbs, but it doesn't seem in the same category as bread and pasta.

"I eat mostly vegetarian, so cutting out fruit and some veggies might be difficult."

I am very skeptical of a diet that requires one to reduce intake of fruit and vegetables. Is this really how it works?

Hear me out here. This may not be the only reason but it is A reason to consider.
Women often gain weight in a marriage to keep them in the marriage.
It is a form of making herself less attractive to OTHER men.
Women have the same urges men do except we are taught from a young age sleeping with multiple partners is unacceptable. We are hard wired to some degree to monogamy.
Except here is the BIG difference between men and women. A woman could have a sex partner anytime she wants, a man can not...Is this fair? No but I defy any man to disagree that at 12 noon anywhere, a woman whatever her weight, could go up to a man and ask him for sex and she would find a willing partner...men are hard-wired too just for something else.
Here is something else to consider women are hit on all the time and my dear men it is usually your friends.If you have a buddy who hates your girl, that usually means he has hit on her and she turned him down,now he is doing spin so if she ever tells you, you wont believe her.
So to this husband who is complaining to his wife about her weight. You want her to lose the weight? Make her feel SECURE and PROTECTED, take her on walks and really listen to her like she is another human being that you "Love, honor and cherish until death do you part" and after she loses the weight never leave her side at a party because I assure you one of your letch friends are going to hit on her and you know what? It will be the last guy you expect.
The weight gain was a compliment to you now thank her, make her feel like YOUR woman and I promise she will come to the conclusion she doesnt need her self made wall to protect herself because you are there to do it for her.

Going no-carb is hard for veggies, but going low-carb should be ok.

* Seitan. With satay sauce, make it yourself so you know it doesn't have sugar in it.
* Grilled tofu
* Beans
* Rennetless cheeses... Trader Joe has the list
* Fromage blanc by the Vermont company, it's low carb AND low fat AND low cal
* At Whole Foods, get the "Field Roast" brand sausages, they are seitan and have 26 grams of protein each and 240 calories. With a little mustard.
* There's that Icelandic strained yoghurt... skyr? sykr? Something like that.
* Amy herself says she eats veggies in olive oil.

Wanda, what color is the world you live in?

I defy any man to disagree that at 12 noon anywhere, a woman whatever her weight, could go up to a man and ask him for sex and she would find a willing partner

I hear this sort of thing from women a lot, but it isn't true - even for young and attractive women. It's an assumption that sets women up for a lot of disappointment as they get a little older.

Wanda, the flaw in your logic is this: By your own statement, every man desires every woman he comes across, no matter what. Therefore, the weight gain doesn't make any difference. If the goal is to eliminate other guys hitting on her, it fails to accomplish that. So making her feel more secure will not be an incentive to lose weight. In fact, it will do the opposite: since she can always get what she wants no matter what her weight, she may as well balloon out to 400 lbs. In your world, there's no reason not to.

And personally, if I had a wife who demanded that I stay right next to her 24/7, I'd regard that as a pain in the ass.

People gain weight as they age and gain weight from bearing & raising kids. I am THIRTY POUNDS HEAVIER than when I married 20 years ago. I am tall & was reed thin when I wed. That 30lbs. took me from a size 4 to a size 10, from willowy to curvy. My hubby still finds me hot, because what we have *together* is hot.
Wifey's weight is not the center of the problem. He needs to admit this.

dee, what do you think the problem is? I reject the notion that weight gain is inevitable as one ages; once you pass your early '20s, I can't think of any physiological reason why this should be so. Neither of my parents are any heavier then they were when I was a child.

"People gain weight as they age and gain weight from bearing & raising kids."

No, they gain weight because they eat more calories than they burn. This is true if they are three or ninety three.

"My hubby still finds me hot, because what we have *together* is hot."

"Wifey's weight is not the center of the problem. He needs to admit this."

You know because you have been a man with a man's sex drive how long?

The magic answer.

He: "I'm worried about you, darling. I keep thinking that you're depressed."

She: "No, I'm pretty happy."

He: "Well, I see you eating more than usual, and I worry that you're becoming depressed and self-medicating."

This isn't manipulation. You have to be sincere. If you've already convinced her that you are Mr. Superficial, then you have a lot of confidence building ahead of you, because you've convinced her that the only reason you hang around her is b/c of her figure. She has mentally filed you under "superficial jerk", and nobody goes hungry to please a superficial jerk. After all, the figure can change over the years, and what happens to her when she's no longer hot? Chicks can't all stay skinny hotness forever like Amy does.

If you convince her that the reason that you are concerned about her weight is because she is the light of your life and you truly give more of a damn about her than the average blowup doll, she may decide to lose the pounds for her own sake and please you a little into the bargain. Seriously, though, for 20lbs in 7 years, LW *is* Mr. Superficial Jerk. He should get a monogrammed hankie and learn to live with it, as he will never be able to pull off sincerity.

sorry -- I didn't read the other comments, so my calling him a superficial jerk was too harsh. I do think that people have unreasonable expectations for each other, and if the man in the relationship doesn't pay attention to what he's really saying, he may find himself saying something that has a substantially different effect than he thought. When you make people feel insecure, the act out in bizarre ways.

In life, a man doesn't have to understand his woman completely -- just get some kind of idea what pisses her off and steer clear of that.

Just wanted to say that Amy's absolutely right about Taubes' book. It's not a hysterical polemic in the least, but a very well researched, rational, persuasive work.

Amy, I though you might enjoy an 'alternate' point of view on this column! :)

http://scryberwitch.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/up-yours-amy-alkon/

People don't change unless they want to. Trade her in for a new model.

This female agrees with you Amy. Even after reading the "other side" on that "other blog" I still agree with you. I don't think it's shallow at all to want to be physically attracted to your mate, and the only way there is a gender discrimination issue would be if the LW himself was also 20 lbs heavier and also refusing to do something about it. There's no mention of that so I don't see how someone could base a whole riotous reply on an assumption.

Is the poster Kephren really the original letter writer "Weighed Down"?

(See above link: http://scryberwitch.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/up-yours-amy-alkon/ )

I notice you did reply to this blog several times, so I assume that Kephren is indeed "Weighed Down".

If Kephren is the original writer, I think it would provide some clarification to commentors on the situation. Many things were left out of the original letter, such as that they have two children together but that they are both ADOPTED.

He also says that she lost the weight like he asked her to, and her weight gain was just from eating too much sugary stuff, not any medical condition or from pregnancy.

I see both sides of the coin, however. It is hard to lose that baby weight. I've always heard "if it took x amount of time to put it on, it'll take the same amount of time to take it off". It didn't just grow there overnight. With my child, during pregnancy, she ripped apart my obliques (literally, the doctor told me they are ripped apart and only surgery can correct it) and she also broke a rib.

I was thin before I got pregnant and gained a lot. I lost it. I'm a small person, both in weight and height, but there is absolutely no fixing (without surgery) the distended muscles that make my belly pooch out, or the stretch marks, or the rib that didn't heal properly.

So, although I'm 110 lbs, pregnancy did alter my body and "just exercising and eating right" is not going to fix the stretch marks, odd bump on my stomach from broken rib or muscles that were ripped apart and won't regrow. I very much sacrificed my body for my child. If my husband were to complain about my altered physique and how he wants me to look how I did when I married him...well, tough shit. I'd rather have the body I had when I got married too, but I don't have the money to get it surgically repaired and restored and the bump cannot be fixed that way anyway. It's here to stay.

I'm just trying to say that while I agree on the point that while your core personality shouldn't change drastically and a spouse could reasonably expect you to stay around the same weight, its possible to stay EXACTLY the way you were. As life goes on, your grow in your personality and the metabolism slows down.

There's a difference between eating like crap and having a baby physically change you (I mean more than just some weight; weight CAN be altered, but you have to work at it).

I also don't like how so many people suggest that "as soon as she got that ring on her finger so gained 20 lbs"). Seven years later is not "right after she got the ring". Sometimes the weight sneaks up on you, and then you realize it and do something to get it back down. I also do not think that women deliberately get fat. Most women in American society DO NOT want to be fat. They want to be attractive for themselves, for their self esteem. I would NEVER deliberately get fat because I was pissed off at my husband. That's insane.

And since no one has addressed this: as a relationship goes on, people do tend to get a little lazy and forget to keep up their appearance as much. You get comfortable with your partner and that they are going to stick by you and you might pick up a few pounds. You don't work as hard as you did in the first months of dating to make sure you are physically appealing. With all the demands on us, we tend to get lazy in the area where we feel secure, but unless you realize it or our made aware of it, you tend to forget about it and continue to be lazy.

I am not a hardcore feminist, nor do I subscribe to the patriarch thing either, for the record. There can be a balance.

As for the diet thing...is Taubes similar to Atkins with the no carbs, just fat thing?

Sorry, typo. Its supposed to say "Its not possible to stay EXACTLY the way you were".

Amy is correct. This nonsense that all calories are the same is, um, nonsense for most people. There are people whose systems work differently, that is well known.

But, for most fat Americans, the problem is eating too many carbs and not enough fat. That is why the US is the fattest nation in the world, with Mexico close behind, and gaining as we speak.

Dr. Atkins had 60,000 patients for his reduced carb, higher fat diet. It is insulin produced by a high carb diet and its side effects that puts on the fat, and clogs veins; arteries; and the heart. It is a high carb diet which produces so much insulin that the body starts to reject it, which is called diabetes. He developed the diet not for weight loss, but to eliminate infarctions, which were rare before sugar factories were build in the US, and diabetes.

He said there are people eating 1800 - 2200 calories a day, of high fat, low carb, who lost weight at a good pace. It is inaccurate to say Atkins works because it is low calorie. In fact, it is correct to say it is pure nonsense to say Atkins works because it is low calorie. It works because it is high fat; low carb, period. You should not write about things you know nothing about.

I do not recommend the Atkins Diet, not because it doesn't work. But, because without trained help, the average low-discipline person can't make it work. It requires not only discipline, but the ability to adjust if your body has slightly different needs.

And, if people do what most people do, which is glance at the book, and do something, anything, that sort of seems like what he is talking about, they can hurt themselves in a variety of ways. Atkins, I am saying, is a technically complex diet.

Atkins is a system which helps reduce carbs, and replace the missing carbs which are not needed by the human body, with vitamins and supplements, which are not needed.

If Taube's diet is easy to implement, that sounds good to me. Atkins simply came up with a system of teaching low carb/replace supplements diet, and there are plenty of ways to do that.

Now, for the statement that one cannot lose weight by exercising. I have no idea what percentage of people this is true for.

But, when I was younger, (I am now 67 and other issues preclude my much loved jogging) when spring came, I would go out and start jogging. I would be hungry, totally famished, eating like a pig.

Then, after a week or so, one day the hunger would go away, I would naturally eat much less, and I would quickly lose five pounds. If I increased my distance, it happened all over again. I assume it is a matter of something causing a metabolic shift with continued running.

Other joggers/runners reported the same phenomenon, and this is why serious runners tend to be very thin. And, that is why thin runners laugh at morons who say it is impossible to lose weight by exercising.

I have more questions than answers about this phenomenon. Is this rare, and only those whose bodies react this way end up being dedicated runners? Is it common, but most people don't notice because for other reasons they are not serious runners? I don't know. I do know those who run or jog seriously over a period of time do lose weight.

>>with vitamins and supplements, which are not needed.

My typo, this should say the vitamins and supplements ARE needed by the body. Sorry.

Look, let's be honest here.

If you find yourself less attracted to your wife because she gained 20 lbs, you never loved her in the first place. Simple as.

If, as the LW says is the case with him, you must "have a strong preference for a certain body type -- the one she used to have -- and I'm willing to do virtually anything, and pay any amount of money, to see it again," then you should be getting sexual gratification from a prostitute, not expecting your wife to behave like one.

Amy,

Your comments are ludicrous. Where on earth in any biology textbook does it talk about love? I merely said he never loved her, he was simply attracted to her, now he isn't. The reason why the attraction is SO important is because he clearly has no love or respect for his wife personally and resents her for not working, therefore only appreciates her 'body type.'

Plus, you call yourself a writer? This doesn't even make sense...

"If you knew anything about biology, and the biology and psychology of attraction, you'd understand this. It's why I had a wonderful friend who was a great person but I never wanted to have sex with him."

My limited knowledge of "biology and the biology and psychology of attraction" is the reason why you never wanted to have sex with your ugly wonderful friend? Well, I will have to read up on the relevant subject matter and shoot him an email so he can have a night of passion with you.

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