The issue is split loyalty

I really don't think it is. Presumably you wouldn't be thinking you were "petty and jealous" if he was doing the exact same things with his aunt, for instance, even though he'd be focusing just as much on her and away from you. It does have something to do with the fact that he was married to this woman. You even admit that you're bothered by how much they're still in contact, even though you're friends with your ex. You just have standards for how friendly one should be with one's ex.

Assuming you're right in that they're not romantic, you should have no problem calmly talking to your boyfriend about how you feel. Take Amy's advice and do not attack.

You say they're not romantic and the contact you describe is all errand-type stuff and hey-how-are-you-doing talk, so how do you know the ex would love to see your relationship fail? Has she said or implied that (recently, not due to mid-split anger)? Because this letter seems to be from a woman who has a niggling little doubt that the man who left his wife will leave her, too.

NumberSix, I think you are right, but I will go you one further...she is nervous bc she was dabbling with this guy while he was still with his wife. She is insecure bc she is cheater and she helped to ruin this woman's marriage.

LW, deal with it. You wanted a cheater and now you got one. Congrats. Enjoy the sleepless nights worrying about what he is up to behind YOUR back. Just so you know, he probably is still sleeping with her too. I know a woman who was in this exact situation only she was the dumped wife. Stupid or not, she still hooked up with her ex regularly. Reap what you sow.

she is nervous bc she was dabbling with this guy while he was still with his wife

I actually wrote that first and edited when I reread the letter, as it's not explicitly stated. But it would definitely go far in explaining her insecurity. Not that she was secure before this. At the very least, she was with the guy a half second after he was with his wife, which just screams "I'm afraid to be in a real relationship, so I choose unavailable men and then don't know what to when I have him to myself, therefore I pick both physically and emotionally unavailable men to be on the safe side" to me.

"The issue is split loyalty -- all the effort he's putting into remaining 'loving friends' with a woman who'd love to see our relationship fail. Am I being petty and jealous? It feels like she's clinging hard -- and so is he."

Seems like she's not the only one who could be saying that. Split loyalty? That was kind of a prerequisite to getting the guy in the first place.

This could be written by my ex's girlfriend, except for the part about him leaving me for her. Still, my ex tends to say the same things about me to the women he gets involved with - how he still loves me and what great friends we are - and I always think this would bother the hell out of me if I were them.

Just as in our marriage, he doesn't seem to understand proper boundaries, so I have to draw them. The marriage is over, so while it's nice to occassionally run an errand or speak on the phone, visiting so frequently and basically acting like a husband is inappropriate.

And I say this as someone who had to dial these things back out of respect for my new marriage. We used to do the family dinner thing with the kids too, which was kind of nice for them as teens, and when I wasn't remarried, but once we'd both moved into other relationships, it needed to end.

I agree LW might be feeling especially insecure if she cheated with him, or inspired the breakup, but it's also likely she'd feel the same regardless. I wouldn't tolerate my husband picking up his ex's drycleaning or dropping by her house on a regular basis.

NumberSix is right on as usual. Then there's this:

"... and I know their relationship isn't romantic."

I have a similar relationship with my ex-wife. Guess what, LW? I bang her every time I'm in town. Why the hell not? We have a long history together and that lends itself to intimacy.

Twenty-two years and raising a family together? You can't compete with that kind of intimacy.

Neither of us have been in a serious relationship since the divorce so I'm not a cheater or anything -- but your man is. I would imagine someone who has cracked the seal on the cheating thing wouldn't think a thing of it to tap his ex-wife. It would seem like "cheating lite". And for your further piece of mind and comfort, when a woman has been having sex with a man regularly for over twenty years, literally several thousands of times, she knows how to push the right buttons.

On the upside, who gives a shit? You're the one who helped him crack the seal and open up the idea that you can have sex with someone else sand still love and honor the first one. As Sheepmommy said, enjoy your fate. So what that he still has a glaze on his dick from his ex while he's banging you. Take the same enlightened European attitude about it that you had back when you were sending him back to his family after an amorous afternoon in a motel.

lol. Whistledick..."glaze on his dick"? Ewwww!

We don't know for sure they were cheating, as in sneaking off to motels. He left his wife for her, so it's a good bet they had sex beforehand, though it may be that feelings developed while working together or something similar. An emotional affair at the least.

My ex BIL left his wife for a client. They both swear there was nothing sexual going on before he dumped his wife, but there was sure a lot of flirting.

And now she works in his office and watches him like a hawk. As the saying goes, if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you. I wouldn't want to be in LW's shoes.

As the saying goes, if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you. I wouldn't want to be in LW's shoes.

Or, put another way, the man who leaves his wife for his mistress has just created a job opening.

OTOH, you can look at it as a healthy sign that the man has split amicably with his wife and has maintained a civil relationship with his family. Things could be much worse.

"On the bright side, you're with a guy who isn't one to drop-kick his obligations the moment some husband-stealing hussy comes along."
HA ha ha!

Sleep with one eye open, LW. Even if he's not banging his ex wife, she'll always be important to him- he's displaying this through his actions right now. Yeah, you should be jealous, and yes, you should keep it to yourself. What a prize you've won. You totally deserve it.

Yep. No sympathy from me. LW wanted a cheater and got one. Congratulations.

Sounds like LW got a two-for-one deal.

"Two years ago, my man left his 22-year marriage to be with me..."

That beeper beside the bed that keeps going off? That means you're a doctor's wife. Get used to it.

all the effort he's putting into remaining "loving friends" with a woman who'd love to see our relationship fail

If that's really true, we have a big problem here. Why do you say that LW? Does she want him back (you did say she has a new partner)? Or do you think it's revenge? Do you know this or just assume it because you pinched her husband?

I would apply one simple test - do you get invited to these family dinners? If so, you've got nothing to worry about. If not, well... I'm friends with my exes too, and have no problem with them meeting each other. Ok, sometimes I've had to restrict that for personality clashes - but never jealousy. Nothing says I'm not carrying on behind your back like inviting you to join them.

Of course, in a situation like this that might take quite a while - several years. I hope you knew you were signing on for the long haul. In the meantime, what Amy says is about right. Telling someone calmly and rationally how you feel is ok. To answer your original question, no you're not being petty and jealous. Saying "you can't see her" would be. Saying "it's bothering me" is not.

That's what you get for being a homewrecker... the knowledge your new home is wreckable.

A woman can't "steal" a husband nor can she "wreck" a home. The husband didn't want to be with his wife anymore so he found another woman so he could leave. It's called passive-aggressive. The home was wrecked before LW came along...by a guy who was sticking around because it was easier than leaving.

"If that's really true, we have a big problem here. Why do you say that LW? Does she want him back (you did say she has a new partner)? Or do you think it's revenge? Do you know this or just assume it because you pinched her husband?"

It's safe to assume that his ex wife wants the marriage to fail. Not because she wants her ex to be unhappy but because she doesn't want him to be happy with this immoral little homewrecker. It would be a rare ex who could be a fan of the person who broke up their relationship.

"A woman can't "steal" a husband nor can she "wreck" a home."

A woman CAN wreck a long-term marriage and wreck a home. Most middle-aged men are going to be susceptible to attention from a younger, more attractive woman. That doesn't mean he ever would've cheated or left his wife if said flirty younger woman hadn't given him that attention.

All long-term marriages get boring at times, and have issues, so waving something shiny and new and seemingly problem-free in front of one partner can be extremely tempting. Many people get carried away with the ego stroking and temporary excitement and later regret ditching their long-term marriages.

Women (and men) who excuse cheating under the guise of "the relationship was over anyway" are usually cheaters themselves. And they'll have karma to pay back when it's their marriage that's on the block.

All women should show enough respect for their fellow women to stay the hell away from married men. If you wouldn't want it done with YOUR husband, then don't do it with theirs....no matter what he tells you ("I'm misunderstood"..."She's frigid and we never have sex"..."We have an open relationship",etc)

Not saying this applies to everyone who strays, but some people do want to leave, yet need something to snap them out of inertia or provide an excuse, or need somebody waiting in the wings before they can bolt. k is correct about that. It's not noble or courageous, but it's human. For many the prospect of ending up alone is more terrifying than a miserable marriage or a cheating spouse.

I'm not high on this "respect for their fellow women" we-girls-must-stick-together philosophy. It's important to respect your fellow human beings.

I think the point that k misses and I that bugged me, is how proud LW is of her little "accomplishment". She doesn't seem the last little bit remorseful for the loss of this marriage and is gloating about how great she is. If this guy were totally done with his ex he wouldn't be over there so much. My guess is LW pushed the issue and forced him to leave a wife he really wasn't wanting to leave. Just bc he wanted some strange on the side doesn't necessarily mean he didn't want to keep his wife.

I missed the part where she gloated about how great she is. She didn't express remorse either, but part of her discomfort with the continued contact with the former wife might be indicative of some nagging guilt. We're seldom comfortable in close proximity to those we've wronged; unless we're sociopaths.

As usual, all the good points have already been made. I go with Amy's advice, but I don't mind adding she was nicer to LW than I would have been. Oh, so you broke up a marriage, and now you're feeling insecure because he has a working relationship with his ex-wife due to their joint interests, like children and property?

You should have thought about that before you set your sites on a married man, Anne Boleyn.

@Lizzie,

I just finished "The Sociopath Next Door," by Martha Stout, and that is actually the one time a sociopath feels uncomfortable. They go out of their way to bully and gaslight the ones that they've wronged in order to make them feel crazy.

Considering she admits that she stole the woman's husband, I think him lending his ex the car is the least she can do.

What gets me is she apparantley feels no guilt.

Also, she goes on to admit that he is also "clinging pretty hard" to her.

Sounds to me like SHE is the fling, and in a couple years Mr. and Mrs. Smith will be back together with LW complaining to Amy how fickle men are.

I find it ironic that she chose a man that had entanglements and is now complaining how entangled he is. Well, duh.

Real Women do not mess with married men. Period.

All women have ample opportunity to mess with married men because SOME married men like to have something or many things on the side at all times.

So you messed with a married man and either she kicked him out or he left and you got the leftovers. You now think you should be having the appetizer, a glass of wine, the main course, the salad, and the dessert. You forgot this man still has entanglements with his ex wife. Unlike some divorced couples who rid themselves of all entanglements like property. It seems like they did not want to be entanglement free. Your man - I notice you did not say husband, could it be he is unsure of marrying someone who would involve herself with a married man? Frankly it does not sound like "your man" had completely left that marriage no matter what the divorce papers say.

I have an idea, give this a little push, tell him this is bothering you and you need him to spend less time with his ex. Take a look at his reaction because honey I bet you are not going to like it. He never left his ex. He may be with you, but he has not left her in his mind where it counts. If you are very lucky he has left her bed, but it is likely that he is now having a fling with his ex. It is very common and their sex life could be better than ever.

Face it you went after someone who was married, who had obligations, who you had no business going after. Now that you have him you are whining that he spends tike with his ex?

No matter how this all came to pass, I would not like to live this way. I would not live this way. He is showing you he is completely entangled with his ex. Now you have some decisions to make.

It's just wrong for her to have gone after a married man, and now she's reaping what she sowed.

All else aside, it seems that the ex-wife is taking advantage of her ex-husband. I'm biased since that's the situation I face now. My ex asks me to do things but there is zero emotion affection behind it. It's not even my ex trying to feed her ego; it's simply because she's too damn lazy to either do it herself or find someone else to do it. She knows I'm a very nice person who has a hard time saying no in the face of real need (even if inconsequential, like changing a light bulb.)

She stated "... two years ago my man left his 22 year marriage to be with me..."
Marriages are complicated and a 22 year marriage today is like a 50 year marriage a couple decades ago. No one is required to stay married anymore and other than tears and possible hatefful ex in laws, there is no public censure if someone leaves.
So with that said what made him stay in the relationship so long? To raise the kids? Doubtful. My guess is his marriage while problematic was a typical long term marriage that grows into a phase of comfort as one ages. There is a friendship, this woman gave him his children but this new gal I am guessing made him feel young and important, she hasnt gone through a 1000 times of asking him to take out the trash or his young immature years of his life like his first wife did. He is now more mature which makes me wonder about her maturity level.

So lets use a food anaology here:
Sometimes after a great meal a dessert comes along that is an impressive looking, sweet thing that will temorarily please but it will always be the slowcooked roast, with potatoes, carrots and gravy a man will pine for.
He wants to come back for seconds but the roast is gone.

See Mel Gibson's marriage for a reference.

My second wife had a problem with my being on friendly terms with my ex, even though there were two small kids involved. Then, after we married, it became "You should have NO contact with her except through a lawyer" and other such bullshit. There was no romantic anything with the ex, just staying on good terms, but it drove the 2nd up the wall. Enough so that it became so miserable that I finally walked out.

And, of course, she accused me of leaving so I could remarry the ex.

Question for you, The One: would you rather he talked about how much he hated the guts of the ex, and couldn't let it go? Decide, before you let this ruin what you have.

"The issue is split loyalty"

As long as he has children with her, adult or not, there will always be loyalty to those children, and therefore, by default, to her.

Seems there is a lot of favor-asking, conversations, sharing and family dinners going on and LW doesn't like it. And, it also seems, LW is not married to "her man". I think it's very telling that he hasn't married LW... and she thinks the former spouses are clinging hard to each other.

Get used to it, honey. As Wanda so aptly put it, you are dessert. Many people don't want dessert after a hearty meal (I don't) but if they DO have dessert, it's a small portion... and it doesn't last long. So, if he's still in such close contact with the ex, he may end up going back to the ex after he's finished his dessert.

I'm on my third marriage—25 years. She is the most honest and fair woman I have ever known—not just married but ever known. She has never tried to steal any money from me or urged me to do things illegal or inappropriate. She's good in bed too. I'm happy with her.

You'd have to know My first two ex-wives to understand that comment.

Maybe you have heard of this idea, " What's mine is mine, what's your's is ours." That's the way many wives think.

"Real Women do not mess with married men."

Statements about what makes one a "Real Man" or "Real Woman" (always capitalized as though these are proper nouns) absolutely floor me.

There's only one thing that makes me a real woman, and it's between my legs.

Anyone take a good look at Clinton's mother? Lewinsky looked like Clinton's mother who I think passed away just shortly before that affair began.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/17/former-first-grannies-sli_n_144416.html

This link will take you to a picture.

Wow! Some of these comments are practically hysterical in their Puritan flavor. They reek of sour girly writ large! It's as though the Enlightenment only happened to other people.

Amy's advice was excellent. Talking things through with my partner and the help of an objective mediator has made all the difference to this situation.

A couple of points for anyone who is interested:

My man hung in with the marriage after his ex-wife had an affair which kind of broke him. He had a revenge affair (not with me), but that ended their sex life for 7 years. With teenagers and property on the line, he mistakenly thought he was doing the right thing by hanging in, which only eroded his self-esteem actually, as he came to see for himself.

He has not visited the ex at all in the last two months. She complained about this to him and he replied that as long as I am not welcome, he will never visit again.

There is still a lot of contact with mutual investments and property, but that is ok with me - has to be tended to until it can all be sold. There is no romantic connection of any sort between them, I've never feared that.

I know she wants our relationship to fail because she told a family member who passed that info on. (The ex puts on an act for him because she knows if he saw her bitterness on the subject, he would take issue with her as to own her own part in the failure of their marriage. She doesn't want to hear that, truth stings too intensely.)

One more thing... for those of you who have bitched that I feel no remorse, that is absolutely true. I don't feel a single pang of guilt, remorse or sorrow. If the ex-wife wanted to keep her "marriage" in tact, she should've treated her husband with more care. Married or not, the door is always open to leave, and once he fell in love with someone far more compatible who actually loved him back, that is exactly what happened. Tough titties for a wife who witholds affection, sex and kindness as manipulative tools to get her own way all the time. It worked for a fair few years, but couldn't work forever. She deserved to be left and of course, I am glad that he did so. And herein lies her bitterness - we are happy together and are forging a new future.

I trust him, for I know him to be trustworthy and loyal to a fault. Of course she's never going to want a friendship with me, I wouldn't expect her to and she is not my type of woman anyway. I like women who love their men passionately and treat them well. They win my respect. They also make the world a more benevolent place. Well-loved men tend to be decent men.

The ex-wife didn't want him, she only wanted him once she heard that another woman REALLY wanted him, just like a 4 year old suddenly wants a discarded toy. I'm fine with second-hand goods that others discard by the way side, especially if they are good quality.

Listen up! If another female wants to get her hands on the man I love, she is more than welcome to try her best. It won't work though, because she'd have to contend with me. When it comes to making a man feel good in my company from day to day, I'm a master at it. If I neglect him, constantly belittle him, or manipulate him by witholding the things I know make him feel good - she may stand a chance at winning him to her side, but whose fault would that be but my own?

"Wives clubs" are revolting to the very core. It's as if the marriage certificate is a license to bind a man to them for life, no matter how disrespectful the treatment they dish out can be. Very few men will ever leave a woman who treats them well. Simple.

This link will take you to a picture.

Now Ronald Reagan's mother is a woman I would've loved to have met.