Freedom Of Speech In Canada And Western Europe?
If you want it, you'd better be Muslim. Otherwise, you're sure to be accused, and even brought up on charges and prosecuted for, a "hate crime" (in other words, a thought crime, as if anybody can know what you're thinking).
Muslim students in Canada are suing Maclean's for a supposed human rights violation over a book excerpt they published by Mark Steyn. Sorry, but do Muslims in Western society have a right to go about their business uncriticized? Does anyone?
Now, from the Belfast Telegraph, Brigitte Bardot's latest conviction for "racial hatred." (Newsflash: Muslims aren't a race. In fact, they're recruiting from all races.)
Former French film star Brigitte Bardot has been convicted of provoking discrimination and racial hatred by writing that Muslims were destroying France.In a letter to the then Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy in December 2006, she claimed that France was "tired of being led by the nose by this population that is destroying our country by imposing its acts."
The letter was also published on Bardot's official website.
Bardot, who is an animal rights activist, was criticising a Muslim festival, Eid al-Adha, which is celebrated by slaughtering sheep.
As for Muslim values, sorry, but are we supposed to love and support totalitarianism masquerading as religion, with a book that commands its followers to deny women rights and kill or convert the "infidel"? (Pssst. That would be us. On both counts -- being a woman and an "infidel" in my case.)
To Brigitte: Keep up the great work!
Oh please - that's just the french! Believe me - they think americans and anglos a ruining their culture as well!! Trust me - I live in a place where businesses are not allowed to put up signs in English. The french words must be larger and more prominent than any other words in their advertising. There is even the "language police" that roam about town, measuring letters on signs and fining people!
frencie at June 4, 2008 8:45 AM
He's being sued in Canada, not just in Quebec.
Amy Alkon at June 4, 2008 9:10 AM
The Dissident Frogman ("French by birth. Pro-american by nature.") has something to say about Brigitte Bardot that may tame your enthusiasm for her:
http://www.thedissidentfrogman.com/blog/link/the-problem-with-brigitte-bardot/
Donkeyrock at June 4, 2008 9:55 AM
I'm for anybody who exercises their freedom of speech, and especially those who use it to speak up against Islam. P.S. Jewish and Muslim forms of ritual animal slaughter are barbaric. It's just that the Jews aren't running around advocating the slaughter of other people.
Amy Alkon at June 4, 2008 10:11 AM
Ok...so let me see if I get this...
You don't like Muslims. We all get that loud and clear. It's true, there are fewer Jews and Christians running around advocating the slaughter of other people. These religions have recently chosen to ignore those parts of the bible (Torah). Those passages still exist, "an eye for an eye"...stoning adulterers to death, etc...it's just that they are interpreted differently, flat out ignored or they are quietly preached to the minority fundamentalists.
Ok - so back to your strange hatred of muslims. Now - I have seen you blog your praise of christians...who when they have a beef with someone...they go out and protest like good little civilized people. Those horrible Muslims go and blow people up. Yet in this blog you are upset that these muslims are...using the courts to settle a dispute. Um. How barbaric. I don't get it - they are doing exactly what you want them to do but you are still upset. This is progress, no?
Can you accept this as a possibility...or do you feel the need to "justify it even more tenaciously. Recognizing that you have this tendency is the best way to avoid succumbing to it -- along with forcing yourself to be ruthlessly honest about what you're doing and why you're doing it"
frenchie at June 4, 2008 11:24 AM
Does anyone actually see women walking around wearing the full black tent? Just curious if it is prevalent anywhere in the US.
Chrissy at June 4, 2008 11:25 AM
I've seen a couple, Chrissy, in New York, but I haven't seen any anywhere else. So, no, I don't think it's prevalent. Not right now, anyway. Gods forbid it becomes so, at least here in the USA. I'll take up arms myself before I see anyone in this country have to succumb to Sharia law.
Flynne at June 4, 2008 11:43 AM
Frenchie, not only are you a murky writer in your own right, but you link to other murky writers to support your murk.
One can hate Islam for writing rules for the entire society and still dislike it for trying to work the courts as well: There's no inconsistency.
(PS- Jewish rules about animal slaughter are all about diminishing barbarism, especially for people... And that's where the action is.)
Crid at June 4, 2008 12:14 PM
Ahh Bridget. Always pissing people off. I remember her pissing off the Koreans about two years ago. Koreans like to eat dog and before killing the dog torture it to get better tasting meat. Bet Amy would not like that either.
And yes you will see Hijab clad women in USA, Canada, and Australia. You have to be in the right place. Remember for most Muslim women who are in portable tents they will likely be in areas of their culture or with a male family memeber (can't have those women going off to the mall to talk). They would likely keep close to home aka places with High Islam people ratio. And those places are where most normal people (slurpee gulping, Ipod tottin people, Jeans wearin folk) DO NOT GO.
As to the suing of Mark Steyn is the hypocrisy. You get some white guy makes logical arguments about one culture or race and he gets sue and railroaded to shut up. The flip side is you can then get some local Inam saying Jews are filthy pigs and Christens are evil. And he gets a tsk tsk of the tongue.
John Paulson at June 4, 2008 12:29 PM
>Does anyone actually see women walking around wearing the full black tent? Just curious if it is prevalent anywhere in the US.
I've seen them a few times at a mall in San Diego, but it was pre-9/11.
Kimberly at June 4, 2008 12:39 PM
Islam is exploiting an asymmetry: non-Muslims (including atheists) can't proselytize in Muslim cultures, but the West falls all over itself to encourage proselytizing on their soil. So it is just a matter of time. The Canadian Human Rights Commission is just another brick in the wall.
doombuggy at June 4, 2008 1:00 PM
Crid -
I am linking to Amy herself - sorry that you find her so murky. Please refer to her latest Advice Goddess blog called "Slug Burns" for more on what I have quoted.
And it is inconsistant to me.
As for the hijab - it seems like most women here in Quebec cover their hair only. I have seen a few who actually cover their face and I have never seen the complete "tent" with only the screen for eyes. There are also plenty of muslim women who do not cover at all, although I have no official statistics.
The government of Quebec has done a study on the hijab and has ruled that it does not pose a threat to Quebec and it's culture. The same government would slap a fine on you if you have a business card in english only, or answering your business phone in english.
Frenchie at June 4, 2008 1:51 PM
Inconsistent? What's inconsistent about it?
They are using the court system to impose their perverted worldview. I'll yield to no man in my hatred for Islam. If I had my way, Islam would join Communism on the ash heap of history, no longer to be spoken of in respectful tones.
But quite simply, what is happening here is a group of people is suing to tell someone to shut up and stop offending them.
When the Christians protested "The Last Temptation of Christ", they were laughed at. The reason the Muslims aren't laughed at is the unspoken threat that if they don't get their way in court, they'll start blowing shit up.
Kinda like that gallery they trashed (in Paris, I think) because they were "offended" by the artwork. How many windows were broken at the gallery in Brooklyn when the "painting" of the Virgin Mary in Elephant Shit was on display? Answer: None. It was moved from the taxpayer-funded gallery where it started to a private one, but that's reasonable as no tax money ought ever be used to finance art.
Islam is a totalitarian ideology that simply must be put down. I can tell you that when they come for my neck, motherfuckers will die.
brian at June 4, 2008 2:47 PM
Just what belief gets a pass anyway?
There are people who say nasty religious fighting can't hurt America, but people in Germany in the 1930's couldn't imagine the hell coming for them either.
Read your Orwell, and see what you recognize: "He was already dead, he reflected. It seemed to him that it was only now, when he had begun to be able to formulate his thoughts, that he had taken the decisive step. The consequences of every act are included in the act itself. He wrote:
Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime IS death."
Radwaste at June 4, 2008 4:51 PM
f-rench-ie writes: The government of Quebec has done a study on the hijab and has ruled that it does not pose a threat to Quebec and it's culture.
This gives me ab-so-freakin'-lootly no comfort.
doombuggy at June 4, 2008 5:59 PM
Folks, I live in Vancouver and have been closely following the Kangaroo Court ongoing just a few miles from me all of this week. The travesty of justice is worse than you could ever imagine!
I strongly encourage you to read the real-time blogs of Andrew Coyne from Maclean's magazine.
Would you be shocked to learn that truth is no defense and facts are no defense? If you think I'm kidding you'd be incorrect.
I believe this case goes well beyond a Muslim vs. non-Muslim issue. It has more to do with a tiny group of ultra-left activists who have seized control of a quasi-judicial body, but one that has teeth.
After Maclean's and Mark Steyn are found guilty (there's been a 100% conviction rate to date) then they will use this as precedent in very part of my [once great] country.
I'm not entirely convinced that America is immune from such an injustice, no matter your apparent free speech laws. I thought we had them too.
Robert W. at June 4, 2008 10:21 PM
I also encourage you to read this editorial:
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=7a0f1fad-ef43-4045-8a5f-461ff39cb6cd
Robert W. at June 4, 2008 10:31 PM
Frenchie, Muslims should sue the infidels in courts instead of bombing them to oblivion. Believe me, the rate they claim their virgins in Iraq has made quite a dent to the supply. Non-Iraqi jihadists should cool it for a while and let Iraqi jihadists do their job first. Jihadists outside of Iraq should sue. If suing infidels can keep jihadists from exploding, by all means, sue.
The problem is with the courts that actually side with the jihadists and convict the defendants. On the other hand, if the courts don't side with the jihadists, they may become impatient and ...
ic at June 4, 2008 11:16 PM
> I am linking to Amy herself
Oh, sorry... I went to the frogman guy thing (linked by someone else), which was impenetrable. You're comments are just wrong, which is more convenient.
> And it is inconsistant to me.
In our own private hearts, we may have many precious but indefensible judgments that get us through the day, but we shouldn't expect others to care about them.
From here, your opinion seems like a salute to the Klan for only doing cross burnings during low fire-risk seasons.
Crid at June 5, 2008 12:43 AM
Before reading this blog I never swapped your you're or scrambled there their they're
rilly!
Crid at June 5, 2008 1:34 AM
Hello Frencie:
You sure do know how to malign and broadstroke an entire Canadian provincial population. As a polyglot - that's somebody who speaks more than threee languages, Frencie - I note that statistically no national English-speaking population is as incapable or unwilling to learn another language (ANY other language, Frencie).
Sounds to me like you are one of the millions of English-only speaking Canadians who bitches and whines because they hear other languages spoken. Life is so HARD when one clings to the concept that everything should be like it is within a 50-mile radius of one's birth, Frencie.
Frencie, spread your wings and learn something new. Maybe start small - like a new ENGLISH word every day - until you can take on larger chunks, like history, logic, philosophy, linguistics or another language.
Just thin, Frencie. Soo you could travel to other countries without that tiresome whispering behind your back all the time. You were right, btw. The "hick" word is used a LOT about people like you.
Frencie, your word for today is FINITE. As in: "Even the extraordinarily high level of ignorance of people like Frencie is FINITE because people die eventually."
Have a nice day, muffin.
Simoh Fleischmann at June 5, 2008 3:21 AM
I am continually amazed at how we as a people and as a society are required to pay homage to one belief system or the other. In the USA the Religious Right is trying to push there beliefs on the entire country, where as in Europe we have the Islamic communtiy up in arms anytime someone dares to say anything against them.
Is it just me that is becoming very concerned about the fundamentalist movement our society is undergoing? I keep getting the feeling that we are slipping into a hole of ignorance and distain for anything not with a religious base.
Personally, I have nothing against people with a strong religious belief. But, I am strongly opposed to people who push there beliefs on me all in the name of trying to save me. Save me from what? My own selfawareness, my own beliefs and values. I find it a bit patronizing that someone can say their beliefs are right and everyone else is therfore wrong. Who picks who is right and who is wrong?
I think most its time for the Religious Right, Islamic Fundamentalists and everyone using religion as a reason to supress someone else to "Have a coke, a smile and to shut the fuck up".
MTuttle at June 5, 2008 4:01 AM
Chrissy asks "Does anyone actually see women walking around wearing the full black tent? Just curious if it is prevalent anywhere in the US."
Sure, all the time. Every day. I live in a neighborhood in New York City with a substantial Middle Eastern immigrant population. I see the full tent every day. In the supermarket, on the street, dropping the kids off at school. I also see variations on the theme. Headscarf only, headscarf and veil, and so on.
It's a nice neighborhood. Everyone gets along pretty well. You can walk no more than four or five blocks and pass a Catholic church, an Orthodox church, a mosque or two, and a holy-rolling evangelical church. No problems at all.
LMM at June 5, 2008 6:32 AM
John Paulson says:
"And yes you will see Hijab clad women in USA, Canada, and Australia. You have to be in the right place. Remember for most Muslim women who are in portable tents they will likely be in areas of their culture or with a male family memeber (can't have those women going off to the mall to talk). They would likely keep close to home aka places with High Islam people ratio. And those places are where most normal people (slurpee gulping, Ipod tottin people, Jeans wearin folk) DO NOT GO."
That may be true in some places. It isn't true where I live. Plenty of slurpee-gulping, iPod-toting people walking the same streets and shopping at the same stores as hijab-clad women. They seem to get along just fine with the "normal" people.
LMM at June 5, 2008 6:38 AM
Oh, hell, yes, I've seen them -- both here in Albany, NY and when I lived in Denver -- and I haven't lived in Denver in 12 years. They've been with us quite some while.
When my daughter was about 9 (she's now 25), we did our wash in a laundromat and a Muslim woman with several young ones was there at the same time, all done up in black with only her eyes showing. I wasn't too alarmed at the time but my daughter kept looking at her nervously and I wondered why because she sure hadn't heard much about Islam at the time. Once we were out and on the way home, I reminded her it was rude to stare. She said, Mom, is she Ninja?
But it was starting even that long ago. An acquaintance of mine through work (she was an investigator and we were neighbors and on a friendly basis) busted a ring that were funding themselves with unemployment fraud. I had no idea (of course) she was on something that huge until the story broke in the paper. But, frankly, I wish the Feds had some as competent.
Donna at June 5, 2008 11:07 AM
Oh, and Robert W, absolutely. I don't really think the US is far behind Canada is this kind of oppression. The ACLU is keeping them somewhat at bay now. Which is probably why they say card-carrying member of the ACLU (of which, I proudly am one) in the same tone that they once said card-carrying Communist. I do fear for this country's freedom and not by Muslims. The Religious Right and King George are a far more immediate threat. C'mon, is there anything more unpatriotic than the Patriot Act?
People think I'm crazy for saying this but I don't think W's gonna willingly step down when he's supposed to. They shake their heads at me and say but he has too. Yeah, supposedly, but in case no one's noticed, the bugger's crazy and gets off on power and killing. C'mon, he thinks God gave him the Presidency and the trouble with people who think God gave them something is they think it's their God-given right to hold forever and ever.
Donna at June 5, 2008 11:16 AM
People think I'm crazy for saying this but I don't think W's gonna willingly step down when he's supposed to. They shake their heads at me and say but he has too. Yeah, supposedly, but in case no one's noticed, the bugger's crazy and gets off on power and killing. C'mon, he thinks God gave him the Presidency and the trouble with people who think God gave them something is they think it's their God-given right to hold forever and ever.
Please turn in your internet at the nearest garbage can.
Clinton was crazy enough to try to pull something (like declaring the 22nd Amendment invalid) so he could run again - he was having too much fun as President. But he wasn't crazy enough to simply refuse to step down.
Bush? Crazy? Are you out of your gourd? The man can't wait to get the fuck out of that job - it's aged him 30 years. And the only one who has indicated lately that he was born to be President was Algore - and he only tried to pull shenanigans in Florida.
And if you think a President, no matter how popular, can pull off a coup, I've got two words for you: Secret Service.
brian at June 5, 2008 5:23 PM
Shit. Forgot to close the blockquote tag at the end of that first paragraph.
OK, no more internet for me tonight. I'm going to go turn the garden instead.
brian at June 5, 2008 5:24 PM
Simoh - peaches - you are incredibly obtuse. Is it deliberate?
Mange la merde, mon tabarnaque!!
frenchie at June 5, 2008 7:51 PM
Donna you must be one of those leftard morons. Bush will step down.
However McCain will win the Presidency.
Rico at June 5, 2008 9:51 PM
Well, I think it's time for us Yanks to shoulder our arms, breach that northern border, and kick some sense into those Canadian asses.
It's our fault anyway, for letting all those Tories head north 230 years ago. Damn, they were stupid from the get go.
Alternatively, we could all spread the word to those HRC workers that dangerous Internet transmissions are crossing into Canada, and it's IMPERATIVE that these workers don tin foil hats and form a human chain along the border and coastlines. No time for trials! Incoming! Incoming!
pam at June 5, 2008 10:04 PM
Anytime some little thing comes up about America taking over Canada. I also remember a little factoid.
The amount of Money the US spent of Vietnam war - could have bought Canada ( with all its resources). Not now a days thru. Inflation is a bitch.
John Paulson at June 6, 2008 1:51 PM
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