Permit me please, to introduce to the endearment 'kiddo'. It's a nice non-offensive generic form of address that elevates the one addressed to slightly above the status "eh, and you're whom?" but not quite to the status of "my beloved".
And at my age I can get away with it nicely.
But on a side note: I saw a promising military career crashed (in the wake of Tail Hook) when an up and coming Navy Petty Officer was railroaded and discharged for calling a civilian secretary "sweetie" (never mind the he and she were cohabitating and later wed).
Gunner Retired

My favorite is when I call my friend Claudia, who is Swiss-Italian, very glamorous, and reminds me of Sophia Loren. She sees it's me on Caller-ID, and answers "Hello, Beautiful!" with her sexy Italian accent.

(Hmmm...then again, maybe she doesn't have Caller-ID, and says that to everyone, including the postman.)

Anyway, I prefer to call people and talk to people who call me "Beautiful" or "Sweetie" instead "Bitch," "Ma'am" (Ma'am is my mother), or "Hey, Dumbshit!" I mean, what's to complain about: Go to Italy and the guy beyind the counter says, "Good morning, Beautiful. Can I help you?" This is a problem?

How 'bout this: Be insulted if he speeds by you on a Vespa and yells whatever "FATASS!" is in Italian.

I just find it weird. Obama is our age Amy, (a year or two younger than I, a year or two older than you) and I don't know anyone our age that uses "sweetie" at all! I am curious where he picked that up, I find it really bizarre.

I don't usually use these terms at all, but when I do, "lady" works quite well. "Where d'you want this box, lady?"

It's meant to be slightly humorous, but I suppose it will be intolerable abuse to some.

Jesus, Give the guy a break. Was he making kissie lips and winking his eyes at her, I seriously doubt it. He said he uses this term with a lot of people, give him the benefit of the doubt.

This to me is just another way for someone to bring another person down, also known as "Modern Entertainment". Why are they doing this to people, do they not have anything better to do. Was it a slow news day in the world, I mean its not like we ran out of duct tape; right.

All that was required was done, He apologized for the comment. Let the man be and maybe we can get on with our lives with a minimum of these kinds of smear attacks against decent people.

I'm younger than you both and I call people "dearie" all the time. My mom's version is "hun". It's meaningless.

I just find it weird. Obama is our age Amy, (a year or two younger than I, a year or two older than you) and I don't know anyone our age that uses "sweetie" at all! I am curious where he picked that up, I find it really bizarre.

I'm the same age group jerry, and I use sweetie without even thinking about it, generally with people younger than about 30. My mom called people 'hon' and 'sweetie', and as I age I've found I use them too. I've not noticeably offended anyone yet.

I really think the number of people offended by such terms is considerably smaller than the number of people waiting to be offended by anything.

"Do you think that Obama will fix the fact that a woman gets paid 25-30% less than a man, with the exact same qualifications and experience, simply because she's a woman?"

As I understand it, this is nonsense. There are two kinds of studies out there:

Studies of "equivalent" work compare female-dominated professions with male-dominated professions, and show that women earn a lot less. Of course, the definition of "equivalent" has to be looked at very closely, but rarely is.

Studies of women in truly identical jobs, with identical qualifications and experience. The one study I am aware of, in engineering, found vanishingly small differences. To quote:

"The study showed that the salary gap is primarily explained by the fact that female engineers, on average, have fewer years of experience since their first baccalaureate degree than males; salaries of female and male engineers with similar years of experience are virtually the same."

Enough, already. How about guys start bitching if someone calls them bub instead of sir? Geeze.

For a cute grandkid story and to lighten the mood, my grandson, in a way, insists on being called sweetie. It's a game we play. I don't know how but with him (and his mother before him when she was little) I fell into the habit of calling them boopy (don't ask, I've no idea where it came from). He's taken lately to protesting, "I'm not boopy, I'm T----!" I say, "Okay, sweetie," and he protests, "I'm not sweetie," to which I laugh and say "Yes, you are. You are so sweet I have to call you sweetie." He just grins and grins and now takes every opportunity of a slipped boopy to get a sweetie.

LOL! To the next woman who takes offense at sweetie, maybe we should reply in a variation of this and say, "Sorry. My mistake. I mistook you for sweet."

I actually call Gregg sweetie as of late (probably for around a year). No idea where I picked it up or why.

My favorite was the black female fast-food worker in Detroit who called him "Booboo."

You want to know why women earn 70 cents on the dollar in comparison to men?

Its because they figure in the non existant salaries of stay at home wives.

When you figure in the women who earn nothing it will obviously pull down the average.

Another bullshit tactic employed by feminists is to compare doctors.

Female doctor earns less then a male doctor they whine.

Never mind the fact that the female doctor opens a pediatric practice works 40 hours a week and the male specalized and spends 60 hours a week in surgery and additional 30 hours doing rounds and paperwork

I seriously doubt that if the guy were working fewer hours at a lower paying job that feminists would demand he be paid the same as a woman who works twice as long in a harder feild

Feminist like to sell the bullshit notion that women can have it all - career, familly, and a personal life.

But let me ask you this, if such a thing really were possible why didnt men already have it? After all we have the patriarchy helping us out so why didnt men have it all?

That was my point with the "working seven days a week" bit above. And still, I'm a writer, not an physicist or an engineer.

Dang, I'm so politically incorrect it's not funny! I call everyone "sweetie", "hun", "honey", "baby", "chickie", "cutie", whatever, sometimes with their names first, even, like, "Tommy, sweetie, would you...?" or "Diane, hun, can you find...?" and I don't think anyone has ever taken offense. If they have, they've never said anything! My daughters are my chickalinas, when they're not being crankalinas, and I just never thought about it, I guess. Even people I don't know, like the mechanic last week when I got the oil changed and so on; he had tested the battery and told me I needed a new one, and since the car's under warranty and I have had all my service done where I bought it, I got a free one. I was all, "oh, thanks, hun, I really appreciate it" and he gave me a huge smile and was all, "oh, no problem at all!" It was a very nice exchange, and it's too bad so many people are so offended by someone just being nice.

Jerry,

People 'round these parts use sweetie all the time. Uh...get out much?

You know what? The only time I get insulted is when another woman I work with calls me baby. She calls everyone baby, but it crawls all over me. She says it the same way people in the south say, "Bless your heart.." when what they really mean is, "Ha ha ha fuckwad."

The way I combat this is I call her fool. I say, "Mornin' fool! Sleep well?" Or during lunch, "Aye, fool, where ya going for lunch." She hates it. I am waiting for her to complain.

"You want to know why women earn 70 cents on the dollar in comparison to men?

Its because they figure in the non existant salaries of stay at home wives.

When you figure in the women who earn nothing it will obviously pull down the average.

Another bullshit tactic employed by feminists is to compare doctors."

There are many bullshit tactics used in stats. Anyone with an agenda can prove anything they want. That said...and allow me to insert some age-apprope lingo, dude that just isn't an accurate statement.

Stay at home moms' "lost wages" aren't calculated into a REAL statistical model. Anyone who does NOT have an agenda (my stats prof) will be fair in evaluation. We do a little thing called "holding all else constant." The "70 cents on a dollar" isn't based on AVERAGES which include NON WORKING people. That would be retarded.

You figure a whole shitload of factors that affect wages then add in a dummy variable for sex. It's a qualitative variable so this is how you measure it's effect. Again, you hold all factors constant(location, education, parents' educ, ethnicity, age, the job itself, etc.). Then you run each with the only difference being the 0, 1 dummy. In almost all fair regressions the y-intercept is higher for dudes than chicks. (I forget what the slope was in the one we studied.) This means there was a pay gap.

WHY this happens is another topic completely. But let's just not jump to conclusions about stuff that we don't know enough about...I'm the first to tell people how easily you can manipulate stats but the only way to learn how to do this successfully is to understand the actual process. I learned this actual process and spent months executing models and I can say there is a gap based on what I learned in my non-agenda'ed class.

I just love how black women who are kinda "street" speak. They can call a man "baby" like nobody can. Men they're dating and men they aren't.

In slang, "My boo" means my boyfriend.

Flynne, meant to mention this the other day -- when I first saw you use "crankalina"...love that term.

I have no general problem with being called sweetie by someone with at least a little history to me. Here though, to me, knowing nothing about it but what I read above, it sounds like he's using it dismissively towards women who are doing their job. I don't like Obama, so there ya go. Maybe it's my feelings about him making it seem that way. But I would've taken offense in a mild way had I been one of those reporters. Does he call male reporters by terms of endearment when dismissing them? I doubt it. It's different than saying it to someone you open a door for. These women were working and should've been treated professionally.

I haven't read any studies on the lesser pay issue. But I do believe women should recieve equal pay for equal work. Not equal pay for taking off maternity leave and staying home 5 years. But if they do the same work, should make the same pay. And shouldn't have to work 7 days a week to do it.

I read some article from some female CEO of a fairly big company, and she was talking about how she didn't try to hide being a mom like it was a liability. When she left early for a kids function, she went right out the front door and didn't apologize. And she was equally open about tooting her own accomplishments. Of course, there aren't a lot of female CEO's yet, so I dno't know how applicable that is.

I also think women should be drafted, and put into combat, and any number of other "equalities" as well. IF they can perform the same physical tests required of the men. Which a lot of women could do. The physical tests for the basic military are not that hard. I've done them. I'm sure the Navy Seal requirements and other special units are tougher. But there are no doubt some women that could do them too.

"Never mind the fact that the female doctor opens a pediatric practice works 40 hours a week and the male specalized and spends 60 hours a week in surgery and additional 30 hours doing rounds and paperwork

I seriously doubt that if the guy were working fewer hours at a lower paying job that feminists would demand he be paid the same as a woman who works twice as long in a harder feild"

Sorry to keep rambling but this is just a very misguided view. I am sure there are people who manipulate numbers. But you're talking about an apples to...shit, hamburger, comparison. In other words it's not even close and cannot even be considered real statistics. If you don't work as hard, as long, as well then no, you don't get paid more. I am sure some women automatically think if they get paid less there is a gender game at work. But, when you look at all the factors there is a reason she gets paid less (she works 30 hours a week than the guys she's comparing herself to, say.) When that's the case it's not an accurate or appropriate model to base anything on. It's apples to burgers again.

If you see my previous post you'll get the methedology implemented to come up with the ACTUAL, VALID numbers which DO in fact expose a discrepancy. The female doc w/ a pediatric practice working fewer hours? She isn't going to net the same income as the guy. But if she does exactly what the guys does, same hours, same educ, same age/experience, same probability of leaving work to attend to a sick child, same **EVERYTHING** and still gets paid less then there might be something worth inspecting. THAT is what the numbers are!

When the company I used to work for moved, they flew down the new workers so they could learn how we did things. Though initially taken aback by how often the new shipping manager gave us nicknames (I was "Tallulah" and "Sunshine"; the old shipping manager was "Junior"), I started listening to how the new people talked to each other and realized that that was just normal for them. After they'd flown back, we discussed the matter and eventually came to, "Maybe it's just a northern thing?" It only seemed odd because none of us had addressed each other by names like that.

But, in any event, it was a non-issue, just like it should have been for Obama up there. Honestly, people should not make focus on such meaningless shit as that.

As a child of the South, raised by parents who were both from the South, it is almost always "Yes, Ma'am, No, Sir". You'd figure that's a pretty inoffensive approach. You'd figure wrong. I try had to be polite to customers, but they don't always make it easy. If I don't know your name, how else should I refer to you?

But really, which of the two current viable candidates for president is worse for women:

Obama: Sometimes calls women "Sweetie."

McCain: Will probably appoint an anti-abortion Supreme Court justice.

Tough call...

McCain wont end abortion.

Republicans biggest finacial hook is promising to end abortion, if they ever acctually did they'd lose too much money

And given this story
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080701/ap_on_el_pr/obama_faith

Are you really so sure Obama wont try to over turn it?

"McCain: Will probably appoint an anti-abortion Supreme Court justice.

Tough call..."

Nothing is going to end abortion. If Roe is overturned, it will just go back to being a state-by-state decision like it was pre-Roe. States like California will still allow it because voters there want it, states like Utah and texas probably won't because the majority of voters there don't want it.

Let's stop worrying about abortion so damn much, and start worrying about programs that will end the need for it, like proper sex-ed, and subsidized birth control, and not allowing churches to buy up every hospital in the country.

I don't care if some guy on a vespa whistles at my ass, or if a guy in an Italian deli calls me "Beautiful." My friends and boyfriend can call me sweetie if they like.
But in a corporate boardroom, the senior vice president had damn sure better not call me sweetie, and I don't want to see presidential candidates calling a reporter sweetie. It was inappropriate, and yes, I did find it quite dismissive and rather offensive.

There are appropriate times, places and people for everything. Grab your wife's ass, but not at a wake. A friend might get away with asking a personal question that would be offensive from a stranger. My boyfriend can put his hand on my knee in the subway, but when some creep does it, it sucks. Catcalls from construction workers roll off me, but if my male colleagues said the same things to me when I walked in the office, I'd have a big problem with it.

More than anyone else, the President needs to be careful with his words and aware of proper protocol. Things shouldn't just be "slipping out" when he's in the public eye.

Gail,

You should have spoken with Bush at some point.

I prefer a few "sweeties" over some of the mindless shit Bush has spewed throughout the years. I always feel kinda sorry for the translators, don't you?

"In other words it's not even close and cannot even be considered real statistics."

Way to miss the point, Gretchen. His point is that the loudmouths aren't doing real statistics. His point is that they are lying. That is his point. In the service of their ideology. That is his point.

When you deal with hundreds of people (whose names you don't know) every day, whether you're a cocktail waitress, a ticket taker, or a politician, you've got to call them something. I agree with Kimberly: "I really think the number of people offended by such terms is considerably smaller than the number of people waiting to be offended by anything."
When you CHOOSE to be offended by these things, you get to make it ABOUT YOU, don't you?

As for the ABC commenter:"Aren't you tired of being dismissed as "sweetie"? As "hon, can you go get me some coffee"? Having to sit on the OUTSIDE of most boardrooms because the infamous glass ceiling still exists..." Um, yes, I'm going to march right into our conference room right now and demand a raise and a promotion, because I'm a WOMAN and I deserve it and I'm being oppressed! Jesus, I've been out of college for 4 years now, I should be running this firm! Nevermind that I was hired as an executive assistant and what I get paid to do is make coffee and answer the phone... these men are holding me back!

"Way to miss the point, Gretchen. His point is that the loudmouths aren't doing real statistics. His point is that they are lying. That is his point. In the service of their ideology. That is his point."

Woah relax, Jim. Definitely got YOUR point. Five times.

He said:"You want to know why women earn 70 cents on the dollar in comparison to men?
Its because they figure in the non existant salaries of stay at home wives.
When you figure in the women who earn nothing it will obviously pull down the average.
Another bullshit tactic employed by feminists is to compare doctors."

First - how can I not "get" that he's implying the 70 cents on the dollar figure is made up and skewed? He says it. I'm saying that isn't.

My interpretation of what he said is that the 70 cents on the dollar is crap b/c the math used to find it is biased. The math used to find that figure is NOT calculated by biased "wymyn." The number is valid. This stuff is more complicated than whiney people who calculate averages with half-assed data which is what he seemed to imply the entire 70 cents on a dollar was based upon (and it's not true). That was MY POINT. I agreed w/ him that there are crybabies who make stuff up...but his overall POINT seemed to confuse the two concepts: the real math and the whiners who make stuff up. Whiney people exist but they're not the ones who came up w/ that number b/c they're too busy...whining.

I've gotta agree with Gail. My friends--male and female call me sweetie all the time--doesn't bother me a bit. But if my boss did--whether or not he meant anything by it, well, I'd feel a bit creeped out.

But let's not forget the fact that McCain prefers to call women--especially his wife--a cunt. Yes, that's right feminists, a President who like to refer to the ladies as "sweetie" is much worse than the one who calls them cunts--because at least he didn't beat Hillary fair and square.

If a man I had never met called me "Sweetie" in a professional situation, I would be shocked. Really, that is just too bizarre. I think that some of you are confusing when and where something like that should be used, as Gail made clear.

Now, I used to work as a bartender, and that kind of talk is okay in that situation, because a bartender is really like a stripper that doesn't take off her clothes for money (I think Amy coined that expression). But in the professional world, it is totally inappropriate, and yes, demeaning.

I'm afraid that some of you are so pissed off at some of the obvious excesses of feminism that you have become blind to run of the mill sexism. I am with the feminist quoted above. If it is alright for Obama to call me sweetie, then I guess I can call him "boy", not that it would even fricking occur to me.

Anyway, perhaps I am clouding things like momof2, in that I don't like Obama either. I think that he is skeevy. And bringing up Bush is a false dichotomy. Sure he cocked things up and good, but that doesn't mean I approve of the President getting blowjobs in the Oval Office either, which is what this "sweetie" business recalls to me.

To put a finer point on Gail's comment... The upshot of this to me, is that he should KNOW better. The guy is a politician, he should know how this plays on the national stage. What works in Chicago, doesn't work in NYC, or Baton Rouge. When you are under a microscope the size of the hubble, you can't screw up like this.

As a side thing, what is curious to me is the range of usage. I would never address anyone I didn't know well with such a familiar usage. [Though I wouldn't use sweetie, anyway.] I call my friends toots, missy, little-miss-can't-be-wrong, and others, but they are friends. You always address a stranger with basic respect, but often there is no reason to use such terms as Sir, or Ma'am anyway. Once you make eye contact with a person, and are talking to them, they know.

So that puts these terms as 'endearment' or a 'familiar' far as I know...

But then people using them as a generalization confuse me, because they don't know me. :shrug: maybe it's meaningless...

Here's the deal:

In the south, you get called sweetie, baby, dear, hon, all that shit. You hear it from your boss and from colleagues and friends blah, blah, blah. If you don't have the skills to recognize that one person's "sweetie" is different than another person's "SWEETIE," then that's your problem. Yours. I can't stand for people to whine and cry and be victimized by benign words. If the words are malignant, challenge the cancer using wit and words, not sobs. And no the Bush reference is not a false dichotomy. What with all the lucky displaced negrohhs from New Owleans....They were just singing in the stadium, I believe. The whole time. Happy...oooohh woooohhh!

And I don't approve or disapprove who's getting head in the oval office cuz I don't give a shit. Some people look up to him for it; some look down. And one opened wide and kept the stain for later.

I never understood why the English term "baby" describes totally two different objects.

Depending on the situation, one means G rated , the other, R rated or higher.

English is a tough language to learn.

"People 'round these parts use sweetie all the time. Uh...get out much?"

Sadly, I am too rarely around the parts I would call sweetie. Or tangy. What's your email?

KG said: "In the south, you get called sweetie, baby, dear, hon, all that shit. You hear it from your boss and from colleagues and friends blah, blah, blah. If you don't have the skills to recognize that one person's "sweetie" is different than another person's "SWEETIE," then that's your problem. Yours. I can't stand for people to whine and cry and be victimized by benign words. "

With all due respect, hon, you are full of it. I have lived in the "South" for 10 years, okay? I not so long ago worked in Texas for a notoriously sexist boss. I still go to conferences and people ask me how I could survived his "sexism". But there is no chance that he would ever call me "sweetie", even though we became great friends. Sure, he would compliment me when I was looking well dressed and en forme from time to time, but always with respect. But then again, I was working for an extremely educated gentleman and not a short order cook.

If that strikes you as whining, so be it. The majority of your comment strikes me as total derangement...sugar britches.

Anyway, this South informality stuff is total BS. People still usually call strangers "Sir" or "Ma'am" under the Mason Dixon line.

Just like they do similarily in France. Unfortunately, I have noticed my metamorphosis from a "mademoselle" to a "madame". Oh well, c'est la vie.

Methinks there may be more than just one disagreeable old bitch on this thread!

Obama can call me "sweetie" any ol' time.

KG is right. I live in Texas. I work for a lobbying firm across the street from the state Capitol, and I hear "hon" and "sweetie" on a daily basis from State Representatives and Senators, capitol staffers, lobbyists (male and female), and the kids at Starbucks. It's not demeaning and it's not meant to offend you; people are trying to be nice.
I guess if you look for a reason to be pissed off about something, you'll find it.

This issue is horribly overblown in the media, but I do think the 'sweetie' comment is condescending. I do NOT think it's sexist though. I just think it's a symptom of Obama seeing himself as the alpha male and therefore as above everyone (i.e. above males and females) around him. I guarantee you Obama looks down on both men and women.

As Katie demonstrates, the offense taken in cases like these is not usually the comment, but who is saying the comment (in most cases) - if he looks like an ugly loser vs if he is somebody of high status.

Clinky, that is cherrypicking at its finest. An Obama worst-case scenario next to a McCain best-case scenario would look equally distorted and ridiculous. Obama is trouble, he is a smooth slimy slippery manipulative liar, he campaigns like a televangelist. I'm amazed that people can't see it. Pity the Republicans don't have a stronger candidate though.

I laughed when the media went after Obama a few months ago for this and I'm laughing even more now. Its PC baloney through and through. I do find it fitting that its Obama thats getting the flack though given the political party he represents. Those women need to pull the stick out. In my experience those are the same types who get all bent out of shape if you call them madam/lady (as in I can't determine fast enough if miss or mrs or maam is the most appropriate). Or they (men and women) get bent out of shape if you don't use their title all the time. Doctor this and Doctor that. God forbid I call them professor by accident.

Sweetie etc. can be complimenting/term of endearment or affection or it can be demeaning/derogatory. It goes by inflection of the speaker and the interpretation of the listener.

I've had plenty of women call me sweetie, most in a friendly manner (esp. when I was a young boy). I've had a few women (and men) use it in a demeaning manner. I've also had a few times where I wasn't sure what their meaning behind it was. I didn't complain though, I filed it away in the brain as proof the person was a jackass or proof they weren't in later interations with them.

Really, Ms. Alkon is reaching. With that old, discredited "victim feminism" rhetoric, no less. (Isn't it the right wing playing the victim card these days?) So a commenter on ABC News objected to the term "sweetie." A COMMENTER? Is that the best she can do? I don't see any feminists are abandoning Obama because he called someone "sweetie," regardless of whether they thought of it. It's preferable to McCain using the "c" word in reference to his wife.

Would you rather have "sweetie" or "trollop-faced c*nt?"
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/17/12366/6474/673/537314

What I want to know is why "Anne Onymous" can't put a name on her comment?

And there are plenty of people who get upset at Sweetie. Use Google, chickenshit.

Wow. Hurling scatological epithets at people who dare come to your blog and disagree? What is the Internet coming to?

There are plenty of reasons people might wish to keep themselves un-Googlable when posting comments to frequently NSFW-ish blogs. As an example: I'm sure you haven't had to apply for a J-O-B in some time, Ms. Alkon (sweetie), but the first thing I do when interviewing someone is Google their name. Participating in a foul-languaged p*ssing match on your blog might not incline me toward hiring them.

Ahem. I don't really have to point this out, but Amy has a J-O-B. Sweetie.

I'm surprised nobody remembered this - although I'm paraphrasing, and I can't remember where I saw it:

"Hey, I heard you have new son. I wonder if you mind if I ask a question - it's been bothering me."

"Sure, go ahead."

"Okay. Things are changing so much. When he grows up, do you think he'd prefer being called 'black', 'colored', or 'African-American'?"

(pause)

"I'm pretty sure he'd prefer 'your honor', 'Senator', or 'Mr. President'. But that's going to be up to him."

I think folks have misunderstood my point. It was not "If McCain is elected all abortions will immediately be illegal" (lujlp and momof3). It is also not "Obama is in every way better than McCain" (David J).

I was just trying to point out, that on most of the issues that seem to be important to those who would object to the use of "sweetie," I would imagine that Obama is much closer to their positions than McCain.

Huh. I must admit, it does feel condescending when another dude calls you "sweetie." Also, kinda gay.

Obvs Amy has a job -- which is why she wouldn't have had to apply for one recently.

And you should get that cough checked out, Rad. Could be contagious. Have you recently started coughing up blood or bloody sputum?

Either way, you are so not kissing me.

> Amy has a J-O-B. Sweetie.

Props to Raddy.

Busy day here. But hopefully someone has made the point that the (aging, bitter, white) women most eager for Hillary to defeat Obama --women like Miss Quindlan-- are the ones most likely to be upset about the Sweetie talk.

Someone's already said that, right? Good.

(That Quindlan article is worth reading for its good points as well as its bad ones. But admit it: It's fun to think of men at a Hillary rally shout "Iron my shirts!")

"Busy day here. But hopefully someone has made the point that the (aging, bitter, white) women most eager for Hillary to defeat Obama --women like Miss Quindlan-- are the ones most likely to be upset about the Sweetie talk.

Someone's already said that, right? Good."

You don't have to be old, bitter, or white to be upset at someone treating you condescendingly while you're working, solely because of your gender. The only people who aren't upset at the thought of that are people who are so young they still wait tables for a living and get condescended to constantly. Or people who aren't young but still wait tables, which is a whole other can of worms.

"but the first thing I do when interviewing someone is Google their name."

That's pretty classless if you ask me.

How do you verify the person you're reading about that spent that week in jail is actually the person you interviewed.

Just what sort of jobs do you hire for that require some sort of private eye background investigation?

Why isn't a simple interview where they can demonstrate their knowledge in the field enough?

> The only people who aren't
> upset at the thought of that
> are people who are so young

I strongly disagree.

It turns out I linked the wrong Quindlen column. Read this one:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/120049

Hillary's people, like Quindlan and far too many feminist-era women in my life, are far too eager to take offense in matters like this. It's as if the fantasy machines of the popular mind --in show biz and elsewhere-- never addressed what happened in their lives. By the time women younger than these had been playing soccer and learning how competition in adult realms actually works, the Hillary voters had grown too old to change their perspective from resentment by collapse of Disneyland fantasy. So no matter what stimulus they receive, they're going to do Psych-101 Freudian projection, and assume that Obama (or whoever defeated their Gal) made it suceeded because of old-boy's-club politics. It's the only scenario their brains can imagine. When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail.

Wanna see this in action? Consider this passage from the link above:

| Consider the guys who yelled "Iron
| my shirts!" at a Clinton event in
| New Hampshire... If someone at
| an Obama rally had called out a
| similar remark based on racial
| bigotry—"Shine my shoes,"
| perhaps—not only would it have
| been a story, it would have
| run on page one.

The problem is that the remarks aren't similar. The shoeshine one speaks for a time when black men had no options but menial labor. But there are women in my aquaintance even today who iron their husband's shirts and do it graciously, because they know their husbands are busy with unpleasant chores as well. At its best, feminism is supposed to give women a choice about that.

But the message most young women get from feminism is that you have to take the most macho and petulent positions on these things, or you've let down the team. Sure, you have a choice, but if you're smart and courageous you'll do it our way. Young women who know they can do what they want aren't interested in being identified with that kind of bitterness, and therefore won't identify as proud feminists.

Yet to a certain extent, these pissy women are right. It may well turn out that identity politics is what made Obama so successful. But that's the only thing Hillary voters had going for them, either. I say, you live by the sword, you die by the sword... Their mutual bitterness (and Bill Clinton's flowering dementia) is going to make for a snotty and amusing Democratic convention.

But, if being pissed off makes you feel better, here's another good Quindlen:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/141491

I just googled my name and found out I was burned at the stake for my faith in 1500's England, and later elected mayor of Dublin in the 1700's.

I'm not quite sure how I forgot I was nearly 500 yrs old and impervious to harm, but should any of my employeeres ever discover my secret I'll probably have to kill them.

Hopefully franco never hires me

Obvs Amy has a job -- which is why she wouldn't have had to apply for one recently.

Actually, I have a job because I created one for myself, but there are plenty of editors, locally, especially, who refuse to run my work, and I sometimes get fired for writing controversial things that upset people. Usually feminists, socialists, and other wildly irrational types.

Free speech is one of the foundations of a democracy, and I value it enormously, and intend to keep using my right to it to the end.

I may be old, white, and bitter, but calling a stranger "sweetie" shows a lack of manners and ill breeding.

If you want to support the continuing degradation of politeness in the US, than go for it.

Let's try out a new signature!

If I understand it correctly, the Supreme Court believes that free speech doesn't mean unaccountable speech. Being able to say what you want doesn't mean you should be protected from consequences.

I want some spam insulation, but anyone who writes by the email name below will receive a personal reply with the realdeal name.

> If you want to support the
> continuing degradation of
> politeness in the US, than
> go for it.

I do. We've got bigger problems than politeness

And I'm working on politeness, or at least bitchslapping rudeness, and making being rude less attractive, in the book I'm writing.

And you don't have the freedom to purposely incite violence with speech or yell "fire" in a crowded theatre. Also, you can't just go around libeling or slandering people. To name a few examples.

I posted a comment above and I think that this has degraded into one of those he said/she said things. The man apologized for making the comment, let it go.

We have real problems in this country and finger pointing at one another is not going to solve it. If him calling someone sweetie is the number one problem in your life, I feel sorry for you.

Solve the real problems and leave the "supposed" slights at home. Like I wrote above-

"was he making kissie lips and batting his eyes"

No!!!!! Yes, the comment was probably not called for; but who really cares. It is not anti-feminist to say that some women are over-sensitive to what they percieve as derogatory comments. But, some men are also over-sensitive. GET OVER IT!!!! Lets get on with the real issues in the election -

1. The Economy
2. The War in Iraq
3. Rising Gas Prices
4. Down Trend in World Standings (Respect)
5. Upward Tensions in The Middle East

These are just a few of the REAL problems we face, lets "Skip the simple shit" and get back to the real thing.

"I may be old, white, and bitter, but calling a stranger "sweetie" shows a lack of manners and ill breeding."

Liz,

I love how you casually mention your bitterness, like it's o.k. Maybe you feel being old is a valid excuse for it, even in polite society. Well, bless your heart, ma'am!

And what is ill breeding anyway? Sick people fucking?

I always hated that term.

You have a lovely day, dearie.

...but anyone who writes by the email name below will receive a personal reply with the realdeal name

Been there, done that, it's true! >_O
(And to prove I'm a good sport, I put mine below too. Just in case, ya know.)

And what is ill breeding anyway? Sick people fucking?

Geez, I must be a product of that then. Oh the misery!

I may be old and white, but bitter? Hell, no! Life's too damn short, and I'm having too much fun calling people names to be bitter!

By the way, I love all of you opinionated miscreants, even when you act like ignoranuses. 'Cause I can.

1. The Economy 2. The War in Iraq 3. Rising Gas Prices 4. Down Trend in World Standings (Respect) 5. Upward Tensions in The Middle East . These are just a few of the REAL problems we face, lets "Skip the simple shit" and get back to the real thing.

(highlight mine)
Are you really gonna make me address this shit again?

There has never been a time when the United States was respected. First, we were looked down upon as disloyal (first settlers) and then as mere providers of resources. Then we were reviled for daring to stand against the Crown. Then we were alternately hated and feared through the 18th and 19th centuries. Then came WWI, after which we were merely accepted as a member of the world community - which shortly after went right back to the standard set of fear, indifference, and hate. WWII made some small groups of people revere us, but they are mostly dead now. And it's right back to fear, indifference, and hate, with a side of envy.

Of course, I have to assume that the context in which you provided your lovely little list implies that you think Obama Christ is somehow able to effect such things.

I'd like to know how, given that he's not got clue one about how anything in this world even works.

Obama's "sweetie" comment gives us a glimpse into the fundamental unseriousness of the man. There is such a thing as playing to the audience. He hasn't figured that part out yet.

When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail.

By the way, Crid, I forgot to mention, I love this! May I quote you, darlin'? o_O

It's from this guy.

Sometimes, for example, life calls for incivil speech. The Supreme Court even said so, Cohen v. California 1971...something about one man's profanity being another man's lyric statement, and that sometimes the wrong words are precisely the right words to communicate a point.

I love the net! Thank you, and thank google!

I want another swing at Liz:

> "sweetie" shows a lack of
> manners and ill breeding.

Lack of manners may actually be something for us to feel bad about.

But "ill breeding"?

The miracle of the United States, and the reason that people from all over the globe are trying to get in, is that we don't care who your father is or what he did with this life, we care about you and what you'll make of your life. "Give us your poor, your tired, your huddled masses longing to be free," etc. Dear woman, your argument echoes from the reeking bowels of the 19th century. Maybe the 18th. Maybe the 20th before Christ.

Perhaps you were just kidding, or speaking loosely.

PS - To Hell with the Windsors, including that dreamboat Harry.

Turns out kg & Flynne already spanked your ass. Apologies for the redundancy. Carry on

Just my two cents, here, but I got HIRED because of my MySpace account.

I wanted a no-stress part time job and applied to be the web designer at a guitar amplifier company. The CEO googled my MySpace page, thought I'd be a good fit for the company, and hired me.

Not for everyone, but the whole "Edit everything you say on the internet- you never know who is reading"-BS is a little alarmist.

As for calling someone "sweetie," I often call people "honey" when I don't know their names. Especially if they happen to be girls between the ages of 3 and 17. :) It's better than saying "Hey you."

Sometimes people grow up in a certain area of the country, and don't realize that the colloquial speech and mannerisms vary depending on where you travel. Well, either they don't realize it or they have enough pride in where they come from to not care. Like the Harlem Gospel Choir.

Or my favorite, Jews that grew up on the east coast that don't understand that in the Pacific Northwest, we don't make Jew jokes. We don't laugh at Jew jokes. We find it uncomfortable when Jew jokes are made in our presence. You get the idea.

Crid said "The problem is that the remarks aren't similar. The shoeshine one speaks for a time when black men had no options but menial labor. But there are women in my aquaintance even today who iron their husband's shirts and do it graciously."

Sure a lot of women iron shirts, but actually, a lot of black men are still shining shoes. And there was a time, not so distant, when women had a hell of a hard time finding work more prestigious than ironing shirts, or at best, typing a letter.

Therefore, I think saying "shine my shoes!" to Obama would be pretty much equivalent to saying "iron my shirt" is to Hillary. Both taunts are offensive for the same reason -- because they imply that the only work fit for blacks or women is menial work. But as someone noted above, all hell would break lose if someone yelled "shine my shoes" at Obama.

A lot of black men are still shining shoes?

Where?

At the mall here in Lubbock, TX, currently, the men who shine shoes are indeed black, and the gentlemen in the same positions at Willowbrook Mall in Houston when I was growing up in the 80s and 90s were also without exception (as far as I witnessed) black.

> And there was a time,
> not so distant

But, understand, that's the second layer of removal from reality before any of this pays off as something to be concerned about. Maybe the third.

First, Quindlen asks us to imagine that someone did say "shine my shoes." (Nobody actually did.) Second, she invites is to imagine how the newspapers would have handled this compared to another offense. And then she demands affirmation of the antique pain of women who weren't able to achieve all they hoped to years ago because of (they claim) sexism. No specifics are presented for any of this. And Anna Quindlen was able to climb to the top of her profession anyway, and still lives in Manhattan. How much sympathy is she going to demand we deliver on behalf of third parties? (Especially when, as I contend, these concerns simply don't apply to modern, achievement-oriented women?)

This is a voting bloc that wants to get upset about stuff that you "just know" is true, because it can be imagined. To mock Democrats in this regard, Reagan once quoted H.L. Mencken: "Puritanism: the haunting fear that somebody, somewhere, might be having a good time."

The generation capable of this inane bitterness is aging; its voting bloc is shrinking, and it will not be missed.

Frickin' html.

Amy asked:

"A lot of black men are still shining shoes?

Where?"

Manhattan, for one. I saw one today, out on the sidewalk in Midtown. (Don't you have shoe-shine guys in L.A.?)

Fortunately, we also have black executives and presidential candidates today -- and female executives and female presidential candidates. And we've got white shoe shine guys. We've come a long way, baby. Anyway, my point was that the "iron my shirt" comment was stupid and offensive for exactly the same reason "shine my shoes" would be, and the fact that some women still iron shirts voluntarily is really irrelevant, just as it is irrelevant that some black men still shine the occasional shoe. No one is shouting "iron my shirt" or "shine my shoes" at McCain. If they did, it wouldn't carry the same implications -- which of course is why no one shouts it.

> the fact that some women still
> iron shirts voluntarily is
> really irrelevant

Again, feminist choices only count if you do them right....

"feminist choices only count if you do them right...."

and I really suck at ironing, so no chance I'll ever get it right. My feminist choice is to send anything requiring ironing to the dry cleaners.

OK by me. OK by everybody. Has been for forty years.

G: See also.

Brian -"Of course, I have to assume that the context in which you provided your lovely little list implies that you think Obama Christ is somehow able to effect such things."

Never once did I say I think that Mr. Obama can solve any of these problems. I said that we have more important things to worry about than what he said.

And to contradict your point of view, I live in Europe and I must say that the United States has almost always been seen as a trusted ally and friend. But, after the invasion of Iraq the trend turned to one of anger at how the world was seen by Bush and his partners in crime. Yes, there will always be people of differing opinions, but that is what Diplomacy is all about. Working thru the differences and coming to a mutually aggreeable solution. Not the heavy handed tactics used by the Bush administration.

I didn't want to start an arguement, merely show that we Americans have more to worry about than the grammatical errors that someone may make.

Yes, there will always be people of differing opinions, but that is what Diplomacy is all about. Working thru the differences and coming to a mutually aggreeable solution. Not the heavy handed tactics used by the Bush administration.

Of course. It's always better to "understand" the muslim position and ban piglet from the office building, and stop giving out piggy banks, and capitulate at every turn.

Where in Europe would that be? Because I seem to remember a certain M. Mitterand having something to say about France's relation to the US after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

How long do you play "diplomatic circle-jerk" with a bunch of retards in the desert before you just take them out?

And just to play your game - do you have any ideas on how to address the issues you think are so pressing? I do, but Obama's party is blocking the solutions at every turn. In fact, if you care about any of those things, you would by necessity have to be rooting for anybody BUT a Democrat.

Brian - Of course. It's always better to "understand" the muslim position and ban piglet from the office building, and stop giving out piggy banks, and capitulate at every turn.

Do you make this stuff up as you go or are you a really poor reader. I didn't say you should roll over and play dead to everyone with an agenda. I said it is always better to try to work out the problems first. That doesn't mean you need to bow to someone just because they think you should.

I live in Germany and have for the last 15 years. I also travel extensively in my profession and see much of the rest of the world as well.

As for the Berlin Wall, I was here when it happened and it was mostly due to Helmut Kohl that it fell. Herr Kohl was pushing for the unification of Germany to secure his legacy for the future. Yes, the US also wanted to unify Germany for there own selfish needs. But, it was mostly a German/European project, much like the highly problematic European Union.

I do have my own opinion as to how some of the problems I wrote about could be solved, but not all of them. I never claimed to have all the answers. I ONLY SAID we more important things to worry about!!! THATS IT, NOTHING MORE.

Try not to be offended by everything that people say that is other than your opinion, you'll make more friends that way.

Just for info, I served in the first Gulf War, Somalia and that wonderful little adventure in Haiti too. I know what a war is like, I would prefer not to have to do it again.

Matthew, I appreciate your distaste for war. However, your proposed solution of "try[ing] to work out the problems first" must have a limit somewhere, no? War is simply diplomacy by other means.

I apologize for the poor construction of my reply above - it was, in fact, in England that a government office banned all images of pigs because a muslim employee complained about being exposed to a mug that bore an image of Piglet (of Winnie the Pooh fame), and a bank in, I believe Denmark that decided that they would no longer give out piggy banks to children to "avoid giving offense".

Which is the point I was making about capitulation. How long do we allow people to emigrate to our respective nations and demand under threat of violence and mayhem that we change the way we live our daily lives?

And the particular immigrants at this time are raised and educated in an ideology that just happens to emanate from the middle east, driven mostly by Saudi and Iranian oil money. You've got, perhaps, a suggestion on how to curb this infestation? Talking isn't going to make it go away. Taking out a tin-pot dictatorship that just happens to share borders with both of the aforementioned, on the other hand, might send a message.

Then again, it might not. Iran might decide to make another bid for regional hegemony and pooch the entire world economy in the process.

Brian, First let me apologize also for the lag time in my responses. I am working with a 7-10 hr. difference from the US.

You asked first if I think that war could be considered a form of Diplomacy. Yes, but only as a last resort. I don't think it is a sign of weak character to try to talk your way thru a problem before you pull the gun out of the holster. But, when you do pull the gun out you have to be prepared to follow thru on your promise to use it. The resolve required for that is something that a lot of our politicians lack these days.

Immigration=Infestation. I must have missed that one. Am I concerned about the growing trend in Radical Muslim beliefs. Not just Yeah, but HELL YEAH. Anyone with an IQ over 10 has to be concerned, but we can't just lump all immigrants together. I work with several Muslim people and they are just as concerned about this downward trend as I am. We have talked about on many occasions and they don't have any real solutions either. I tend to believe that it is not the majority of the people that feel that way, but when the Radical Belief People are the only ones yelling at you; that is what you focus on. The neighborhood in which I live is very diversified there is a Korean Restuarant next to a Turkish Imbiss and there is a Iraqi running my favorite Pizza place around the corner. We all a very friendly with one another and we talk at least twice a week. This just shows that it is possilbe to live together, we just have to work at it.

As for the bowing down to every idiot with a complaint, I think that is without question the stupidest thing I have ever heard. How dare someone tell me what I can and can't do. Last time I checked it was still a free country, but we do also need to respect other peoples point of view. Not cater to there every whim, just respect there view.

In Germany there was an instance a few months ago where a artist drew a picture of Mohammad in a "Not very Polite Position". There was a huge outcry from the Muslim community about it, and frankly I agree. There was no need to purposelly aggrivate an already bad situation. He was just trying to stir the pot up and didn't think about showing a small amount of respect for there cultural beliefs. That having been said, I also think that some people are over doing it with the showing respect bit. Show respect, not take one in the a*$ for the team.

As for Iran, they are trying to develop Nuclear Power. Not Nuclaer weapons. Nuclear power, you know the thing that almost the entire plant says is the best way to go to help with the growing problems in the enviornment. In Germany alone the are talking about building 20 new Nuclear Power Plant in the next decade. Do we have any hard evidence that Iran is developing Nuclear weapons? If yes, show the world the evidence and lets work with are allies and come to a solution. If no, then Diplomacy and Trade are really good solutions to the growing tensions there. Iran doesn't need Nuclear weapons to attack Isreal, they have enough rockets to turn Jerusalem into a parking lot. That is the reality that we live in.

Roosevelt once said, "Speak softly and carry a big stick." We could if the desire was there, turn the entire Middle East into the worlds biggest piece to glass with our Nuclear arsenal. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to pass that kind of information on to the "BAD GUYS".

Just for Info, my distaste for war comes soully from my desire not to have to send my son into the hells I have seen. Killing a man is not fun and there is no glory in it. I earned my Purple Heart and Bronze Star, I don't want my son to have the same thing. I think we as a people can do better than that. But if called upon, I would do it again. I love my country and have bled for my country, no one can take that from me and I bow to no one!!!

Matthew:

The neighborhood in which I live is very diversified there is a Korean Restuarant next to a Turkish Imbiss and there is a Iraqi running my favorite Pizza place around the corner. We all a very friendly with one another and we talk at least twice a week. This just shows that it is possilbe to live together, we just have to work at it.

But that's just it - I shouldn't HAVE to work at it. I don't now. Primarily because nobody I come in contact with has expressed a desire to kill me for not believing as they do. I'm certain that there are muslims working for some of my customers. It isn't an issue precisely because, for the most part, we respect boundaries here. That doesn't seem to be the case for a fair number of the muslim immigrants in Canada and Europe. One of the things that the muslims are going to have to get used to is the idea that their beliefs and prophets are not going to be universally respected. You'll note that nobody threatened to kill Andres Serrano in 1989 (good God, was that twenty years ago already?).

As for Iran, they are trying to develop Nuclear Power. Not Nuclaer weapons.

I respectfully disagree. Their nation has as its policy the destruction of Israel -- flattening Jerusalem just won't do. Their president has waxed lyrical about how even if Israel were to retaliate and completely destroy Iran, they could not destroy the ummah, and so therefore islam would win. There's not a whole lot of room for nuance there. And given that Iran's best missile can hit Europe, I'd say that we have a vested interest in keeping them either nuke free or mullah free.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to pass that kind of information on to the "BAD GUYS".

No, but it takes a CREDIBLE threat of force. After we bugged out of Somalia, bin Laden determined that we weren't credible. If we bug out of Iraq like so many on the left here want us to, Iran will conclude that we are not credible. Our loss in Viet Nam probably added 10 years to the cold war - because of the loss of credibility.

For what it's worth, I don't want your son to have to wear the uniform to go kill people either. Which is why it's so important that we get this little problem with political islam nailed down.

Happy Independence Day. I'm gonna go feed my family.