Don't Call Me, I Won't Call You
How about if I make my business costs cheaper by making you pay some of them -- whether you like it or not?
That's what Ryan Kincer is in the business of, as a member of "The Executive Team" of a telephone surveying company called Datascension. Three times in a row last night, I got called by a bunch of jerks at Datascension, asking me to take some movie-watching survey.
Now, I write odd hours, and steal naps in between. They're integral to my writing process. The last thing I need, especially when I have a book due and every moment counts, is to be awakened by some low-wage boiler room worker buying Ryan and his Executive Team Members bigger houses.
How would Ryan and friends like it, I wondered -- being interrupted by a person who doesn't know them and who has no personal interest in them whatsoever, save for, well, turning them into a blog item?
I scanned the exec list, did some phone number lookups. I wasn't quite sure which number belonged to the prez, so I went for the guy with the same last name. I found Chief Technical Officer Ryan Kincer's home phone number pronto in public records -- 951-736-3939 -- and gave him a call.
I informed Ryan that his company had hijacked my time and a phone line I pay for (and not for Datascension's benefit, believe it or not), and demanded to know why he thought it was okay to bother people at home so Datascension could make their marketing costs cheaper.
"We do not think it's okay to bother anybody," Ryan said, perhaps momentarily delusional about the business he's in. He then volunteered that they called me with an electronic dialer that generated a random sample of telephone numbers, apparently dialing until they hit a gooder. Just warms the cockles of your heart, doesn't it?
Why, Ryan, I asked, don't you do the polite, ethical and civilized thing, and write me a letter and ask whether I'd like to participate before you invade my home? Write me and ask whether I'm willing to donate my time and the use of my telephone equipment to a "Premier Data Solutions Company."
"People who hire us don't hire us to do that ... they just hire us to make these calls," Ryan explained -- as if that makes it all okay, treating my time and yours like it belongs to them.
So, Ryan...you're only as "ethical" as you're paid to be? Nice!
He bragged that Hollywood companies and other big companies use them -- as if that makes okay. Then he said they employ lots of people. Yeah? So do drug dealers with a booming business at the local elementary school.
And then, the best of all: Ryan claimed that "some people" want to be called by telemarketers. Yeah? Any of you feel that way? Even one of you? And let's see how well it worked out for this little old man.
I'm tired of people doing business by abuse, and I refuse to take it, if I can help it (in other words, if I can find the abuser's phone number without hiring a private detective). I suggest those of you who feel the same way follow my lead.
I have to say that the do not call list worked as advertised for me.
Which is to say I still got automated calls about politicians and a few unautomated wrong numbers, but all the other unwanted calls stopped.
I look forward to the day when we are all using competitive carriers to make calls over the Internet. Imagine what it would be like to actually be treated like a customer by a phone company.
Shawn at July 29, 2008 2:32 AM
I hate it when the articles you link to are behind the NYT's firewall.
Cheap Newspaper Co.
Their bankruptcy will not come a moment too soon.
Darwin at July 29, 2008 4:36 AM
Did the subject of your participation in the U.S. "do not call" program come up? If so how did he explain his violation of the law? (I'm assuming you're signed up.)
Rojak at July 29, 2008 5:02 AM
I read about one business owner who turned incoming telemarketing calls around and tried to sell something to the caller. I keep meaning to try that myself and offer my services as an after-dinner speaker at the company's next banquet, but I always forget and just wind up saying "Sorry, not interested."
Axman at July 29, 2008 6:13 AM
There's only one way to handle this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un_PjRXV5l8
Gog_Magog_Carpet_Reclaimers at July 29, 2008 6:14 AM
I have to say that the do not call list worked as advertised for me.
As it did here. These jerks are telephone surveyers, doing market research. This is permitted under the Do Not Call law. It's not, however, permitted under what I think is ethical and right. You cannot bother me at home, take my time as if it belongs to you, on a phone line I pay for, and get away with it. The guy's lucky I didn't call him at 3 a.m. Believe me, I was tempted.
And as for the NYT "firewall" -- passwords are available at bugmenot.com
Amy Alkon at July 29, 2008 6:21 AM
I don't usually prank the telemarketing employee -- they're just low-wagers in a bad job. If you want to give proper payback to these unethical jerks who are behind the telemarketing, you find the number of somebody running the company and call them at home and chew them out.
I'm a Hayek-reading capitalist. I'm not against making money; far from it. But, taking my time without paying me, and invading my house (when my friends know better than to call me, and use e-mail) and using equipment I pay for to do it is not capitalism; it is theft. And although it is legal theft, under the laws made by the scummy sell-outs we elect, it's theft in my book, and I'll make the person who engages in it pay in an appropriate manner. (An eye for an eye -- meaning I don't run over your dog because you called me at home and stole my time; I call you at home, freaking you out a little, and annoyingly take yours.)
I bet this is the first time this guy has ever been called by one of his victims. That's because most people are more willing victims than I am.
Amy Alkon at July 29, 2008 6:34 AM
"I bet this is the first time this guy has ever been called by one of his victims."
Betcha it's not. But if it was, I bet it won't be the last. Figure Mr. Kincer to change his phone number really soon, if he hasn't already.
old rpm daddy at July 29, 2008 6:58 AM
I'm wondering if anyone reading here called him.
Amy Alkon at July 29, 2008 6:59 AM
I love my callerID. It's the single greatest sanity saver in my home. If I don't recognize the number, it goes straight to voicemail.
MonicaP at July 29, 2008 7:05 AM
Shawn at July 29, 2008 7:31 AM
Thanks, Shawn. And regarding Caller ID, I've been getting calls lately from the cops. They read California 213...etc. I also sometimes get business calls at home...about my actual business...stuff that would benefit me. Also, I don't believe in letting these creeps get away with it. I'll track them down when I can.
And I haven't blogged about this since it's going in my book, and I need to have fresh, non-blogged material in it, too, but since you guys are my loyal blog posse, I'll tell you:
This past spring, I sued a telemarketer in Santa Monica Small Claims court. A big, international company, also doing "surveying." They thought they'd wipe the floor with me. They even sent their arrogant New York coporate counsel, who figured he'd wipe the floor with me. I was really nervous, but when we went out to exchange documents and he smugly dismissed what I was doing (suing them) with a comment about how I should contact my congressperson if I didn't like being called, I thought I might have a shot.
And sure enough, I stayed up late the night before and I did my homework, and prepared an indexed packet for the judge, complete with the loopholes in California business law that I used to trip the guy and the company up. I beat his ass, and I can't tell you how pleased that makes me. More in my book, which McGraw-Hill told my agent is slated to be one of their top releases for fall...which is super-groovy...as is the fact that I have a dream editor. Now all I have to do is get the damn thing in in time for them to print it! (No thanks to Bank of America -- a company that will be covered in my book as well.)
Again, I am a capitalist, but I am a Pigouvian capitalist. Pigou was a 20th Century Brit economist who said that costs must be factored into profits. So, if you're Exxon, you pay for the damage you did to the fishermen and the ocean. And if you're a telemarketer, you ask by mail for my permission before you call me at home, and perhaps offer me money as an incentive to take your survey.
Amy Alkon at July 29, 2008 7:50 AM
When telemarketers called me when I had a land line, I would spend all my time focusing on them. Man, some of these people spill their lives stories like a fish thats been gutted! At the end of the call, I'd thank them for their session with me and inform them that if I ever heard from them again, I would scream obsenities into the phone until they hung up (no one has ever called back for me to try, how disapointing!!).
However, now that I live with only my cell phone ad no land line and I will kill the person who wastes my minutes.
Tina at July 29, 2008 8:37 AM
Amy,
This is proof-positive of why so many of us absolutely adore you! You have the balls to do what so many of us do not ... but desperately want to!!
Rest assured that when your book comes out, I'll be buying several copies as Xmas presents to give out to friends & family ... even if I have to go down to Washington State to get them!
Robert
Robert W. at July 29, 2008 10:24 AM
If I remember I pull one of Seinfeld's ploys with them, such as just saying hello over and over again. He had a stock of them that he used as a running gag on his show but the hello thing was he easiest to remember. Or, like Tina, I did when I had a landline.
Now I use only a cell and one that's pay before you use (no bills! yay!) at that and don't allow them to waste my time. I'm on the don't call list and mostly don't get them but have had to report one company (several times before they quit calling like daily). That said, apparently it is worth the effort to fill out the complaint form and have the gov go back to them and say have you called this number and justify doing so since they did quit, apparently after the complaint caught up with them.
It really, really, really pisses me off that politicians and supposed researchers are exempted from this rule. Why should they be? And exempted or not, I will still make out the complaint. Let them be bothered by the gov and have to say we're such and such each and every time they bother me even if the gov then gets to reply to me that it was an exemption.
T's Grammy at July 29, 2008 11:23 AM
A few times I've said, "Hang on, I'll get her ... " and then just put the receiver on the table and wandered away for 15 minutes or so.
A few times I've asked the caller a whole bunch of questions, aimed at "making sure you're who you say you are". Once I got the guy to hang up on me.
But in the end that's all time-consuming, so I just stopped answering all calls where I didn't recognize the number. Auto-dialers are used for cold calls and e-mails. I figure if I don't open a e-mail message I don't recognize why would I answer a phone call?
catspajamas at July 29, 2008 3:20 PM
From the Datascension website:
"Datascension is a market research company and is excluded from the "Do Not Call" list. However, we do not wish to harass in any way and we will remove your number from the research project for which you were contacted. You may send an email to dnc@datascension.com"
Since nobody knows in advance which research project we're going to be tapped for perhaps we should all - and everyone we know - email these folks in advance, several times, to avoid the annoyance of a call?
catspajamas at July 29, 2008 3:35 PM
Isn't it ridiculous what the average person has had to come up with just to get even a fraction of the peace and quiet they deserve? No matter what method one comes up with for dealing with the problem, it still means that one has to waste time dealing with it-- and that's on a good day!
I like the idea of written permission for telephone contact, but at the same time note that I've been dealing with junk mail for years as well. (It's not so bad to just toss it, but the waste of paper really moves my cheese.) For that, I've been 'cross-pollinating' mail: Taking return envelopes and stuffing them with the contents of other junk mail. I've also put in those envelopes formal letters of complaint and request to not be contacted again; phone calls are the most successful for catalog companies. Some, though (like AT&T— we've told them through mail and over the phone we do not want any more than they are giving us and are not interested in future offers), just don't get it.
I did tele-surveying work, and I'll say this: There's a difference in being in it for the money and being in it for the paycheck. If I could have handed out the head office/big guy's personal phone number, I would have just so s/he could have had a dose of the crap I went through to get money for college textbooks because they don't have a better policy than random dialing. (Heck, if the building hadn't been closed years ago, I might have figured out what their numbers were and posted them somewhere just out of spite.)
JMoczy at July 29, 2008 5:42 PM
It really, really, really pisses me off that politicians and supposed researchers are exempted from this rule.
Anybody who appears on one of those recorded messages...if I can find your number, watch the fuck out, because I'll call you and make my displeasure plain...at say, 3 a.m.
Amy Alkon at July 29, 2008 8:07 PM
Thanks for the Bugmenot info.
I calmly ask the caller if he(or she) knows how to get blood stains and paint (from the pentagram) out of the carpet. And if they know of a good place to dispose of a Goat's head.
That usually does the trick.
My Aunt will put her 3 yr old on, with instructions to "Talk to the nice man, until he hangs up"
That works too.
BTW, if you are bothered with religious folks at the door, invite them in for a Beer and a Joint. Only had one Morman take me up on it.
The rest leave.
Darwin
Darwin at July 29, 2008 8:59 PM
You have to be careful with that, catspajamas. Sometimes those kind of invites are nothing more than a ruse to ascertain if it's a legitimate number. (You get the same thing with junk faxes, I have two I get at work regularly and just have to toss.) If you give them your number, the opposite will happen. You will inundated.
Darwin, I never open my door to strangers but I got so bothered by them when I lived in Denver (for some reason they rarely knock on doors in New York, maybe because we are too paranoid to open to strangers) I posted a nice little atheistic sign stating that if you were there to peddle fairy tales, take your god and shove him you know where. It was rather amusing to watch them run as if they'd almost mistakenly knocked on the gates of hell itself. I also got some nontracts (the opposite of the Christian tracts, putting forth arguments to disbelieve) from the Freedom From Religion Foundation and every time someone with a phony grin would offer me a tract, I'd say "I'll read yours if you read mine." Thinking they'd found a fellow nut, they'd swap, look at the title and start reading, glance from nontract to me a time or two then run for their life from the devil's handmaiden. It really was quite hilarious.
T's Grammy at July 30, 2008 6:34 AM
There are so many errors in this blog, but there is one MAJOR error. She refers to Datascension as a telemarketer. That could not be further from the truth. Datascension is a Marketing Research company, no sales at all, period end of story. They are the same company that people like to watch reports on broadcasted by CNN, political polls and such. In Everyone who watches CNN and alike sees these news casts that mention X out of X people say they will do this or that and such. How do you think they get those answers by calling only the people they want to, no they call randomly to make is unbiased as possible, to get people’s opinions. To be honest, Market Research does not have to comply with any Do Not Call List. Our government made these Do Not Call laws, but they will not ban Market Research because it helps them. However, if a person asks to be taken off a list those people that called will do so, but that persons number is still out there for other people to call it randomly. It is so important to get facts straight before flying off the handle. Next time you get crummy service, just remember you’re the one that did not want to speak up when they called for a customer satisfaction survey.
Tracy at July 30, 2008 7:56 AM
Tracy, clearly you're a shill for the company.
I do not refer to Datascension as a telemarketer.
Check above:
""The Executive Team" of a telephone surveying company called Datascension. "
"There are so many errors," you say? Such as?
You're libeling me by saying that. I don't make errors. I was careful to type the quotes of this guy when I spoke to him on the phone. I'm a reporter, and my job is to tell the truth, and I do it. How disgusting that you make me out to be a liar and a blogger whose work is filled with mistakes.
Give me your home number and I'll call you at home at dinner time and we'll talk about how nice it is to be interrupted from your work and life by strangers.
CNN polls are not accurate research or random samples if they call people like me at home who are furious about it, and who do not give their opinion. People likely to talk to telemarketers or telephone surveyers are lonely elderly people.
And FYI, I've read the entire Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991. I believe it's 164 or 165 pages. You?
How ludicrous that good customer service is based on bothering people in their homes. If you want to survey me, do it on your dime: Pay 42 cents to send me a letter.
Again, Tracy The Shill, what facts did I not get straight?
Amy Alkon at July 30, 2008 8:15 AM
And I'm serious: If you have no problem being bothered at home, put your phone number out here.
Amy Alkon at July 30, 2008 8:17 AM
Hilarious! Tracy's IP address is from Costa Rica.
Guess what company has telephone "facilities" there and in the Dominican Republic?
datascension.com/locations.html
I guess, when Ryan talked about all the people they're employing who are feeding their families, he didn't mean AMERICAN people.
So, Tracy, how come you didn't identify yourself as an employee of this company? I mean, you can't just be a random impartial Costa Rican commenter?
I'm going to call Ryan now at home and tell him to stop having shills post on my blog.
Amy Alkon at July 30, 2008 8:21 AM
Wait - I love it! Tracy is Tracy Sanders from Datascension!
Tracy, you really are a moron. As a journalist, truth is what you do. To say my blog is filled with errors is a really dumbshit thing to do.
You can have your company cut me a check so I don't sue your ass for libel. I'll take $100 right now, or I'll sue you for more when I get done with my book.
Boy, are you dumb.
Amy Alkon at July 30, 2008 8:24 AM
Okay, now this is getting hilarious. I just called Ryan and he's disconnected his number. I'm guessing he got a few calls from readers here. Whaddya know, the guy in the business of bothering people at home...doesn't like to be bothered at home!
Tracy, the address to send the check for $100 for libeling me, and in print on my own blog (geeeenius!):
Amy Alkon
171 Pier Ave #280
Santa Monica CA 90405
P.S. Don't make me take you to court. I will. And I'll sue you for more than $100. I beat GFK Custom Research in Santa Monica Small Claims court this spring. And they sent their New York Counsel, and I still wiped the floor with them. And I'm a love advice columnist not a lawyer!
Amy Alkon at July 30, 2008 8:27 AM
Here's the e-mail I just sent to Datascension, to Ryan@datascension.com and to information@datascension.com, an address off their website:
Amy Alkon at July 30, 2008 8:36 AM
OMG, Amy, that's hilarious! Tracy sure has a lot of nerve! I doubt if his post was company sanctioned, at least officially. They may try to wiggle out of paying using that excuse. Good luck! :D
Sandy at July 30, 2008 10:35 AM
God, I hate those calls. Japan does not yet have telemarketing laws, we have almost no recourse but to keep hanging up on them. We do have a service with the local phone company, that I have to pay about $10 a month for (grrr), to block calls. After a telemarketer's call, dial 144, then 2, and it blocks the previous call you just hung up from. Not very convenient, and it does not work for cell phones or pay phones. How I wish people over here would get fed up enough to propose legislation. They pretend to be work colleagues of my husband, or ask him by his first name and pretend to be friends calling, they really aggravate the hell out of me.
Amazing that this person was dumb enough to post here. Simply amazing. Go get 'em, Amy! You're inspiring.
Gog_Magog, thank you so much for the link to Tom Mabe, that made my morning. I'll have to come up with something for those condominium guys who call here 6-8 times a week...they use different phones to get around my 144 call blocker. I can't tell you how much I despise them and their intrusion into our life.
crella at July 30, 2008 6:30 PM
Tracy, in a word (or two), fuck you!
T's Grammy at July 31, 2008 8:06 AM
Oh, and this "a list those people that called will do so, but that persons number is still out there for other people to call it randomly" most likely means they sell lists of numbers. Verify that it's a legit number and don't be surprised if a lot of other people start calling. (This is why I just toss the junk faxes at work; I've been answering phones for a living one hell of a long time.) I'm telling you do not click on their too-convenient link to be please not be called again.
Note Tracy: I said "most likely" since I do not know it for a fact that your pathetic company does this. I merely know it's a common practice out there.
T's Grammy at July 31, 2008 8:15 AM
However...
I did find this on their website (under the privacy section about who they will or will not share your info with; this is one of two instances in which they will):
"To provide information to affiliates of the firm and nonaffiliated third parties who perform services or functions for us in conjunction with our services to you, but only if we have a contractual agreement with the other party which prohibits them from disclosing or using the information other than for the purposes for which it was disclosed."
Um, I'm thinking maybe Tracy's being defensive about my warning not to verify your phone number with them. Just maybe... ;)
T's Grammy at July 31, 2008 8:23 AM
T's Grammy, I suspect you're correct!
http://www.mra-net.org/chapters/socal/socal/November-2001.pdf
Market Research Association newsletter featuring a pic of:
Tracy Sanders - Membership Chair
Scientific Telephone Samples
(800) 944-4787
tsanders1@mediaone.net
God, I love the Net!
catspajamas at July 31, 2008 1:40 PM
And one more:
Joey Harmon - Parliamentarian
Datascension
(909) 826-8182
joseph.harmon@datascension.com
catspajamas at July 31, 2008 1:46 PM
I love you, cat'spjs...will try to remember to call when I'm home.
Amy Alkon at July 31, 2008 2:35 PM
God, he even looks like a shark!
T's Grammy at August 1, 2008 6:40 AM
I've gotten numerous calls from this company. I have caller ID, so I don't answer. Curious, I googled them and found this conversation on your blog.
This is from their website:
Datascension is a market research company and is excluded from the "Do Not Call" list. However, we do not wish to harass in any way and we will remove your number from the research project for which you were contacted. You may send an email to dnc@datascension.com
Call me a sucker, but I've just sent them an email asking them to remove my telephone number from their research. (Gosh, I hope I don't regret that) I did also tell them to not sell my phone number or email address either. We'll see.
Brassband at August 12, 2008 9:09 PM
Hi, I just wanted to update you. The Datascencion company are liars. After the email, I received two more call from them. Then the calls stopped for three weeks. Now they're calling again. I sent them another email. My next step will be to report them to the FCC. This company needs to go down!
Brassband at September 4, 2008 2:17 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2008/07/29/dont_call_me_i_1.html#comment-1587315">comment from BrassbandThe unfortunate truth is, the FCC pursues almost none of these cases. This is a subject I'm addressing in the book I'm writing (madly) now (due in less than a month). And this blog item will be in it, among others.
Amy Alkon at September 4, 2008 2:48 PM
Good evening you all harassed American citizens.
I am one Costa Rican "low-wager trapped in a bad job..." as someone commented before... and here is what I have to say:
My family used to have a decent way to survive in this savage globalized capitalist society, we used to be farmers... I bet you that us growing coffee back in the good old days didn't bother you up there in the US...
Well, let me tell you what screwed up our lives: Fucked up politics did! Free trade agreements and unfair international policies forced on us "poor countries" by the US...
Rather than encouraging fair competition, your country's policies and conditions simply make it easier for HUGE US corporations to come and clear any sign of small competitors out of their way... it happens in all fields! My family lost everything to a gigantic greedy US company and now I (as well as thousands) are forced to use whatever knowledge we posses (English in my case) and make SHITTY SALARIES to support our sons so that they can study and maybe one day be able to "not harass poor American citizens and their privacy"...
See my point??? With all respect people, you claim to be harassed on the phone... Well, how about your country's greed invasion of our countries, our economies, our land and imposing "opportunities"!!? The "opportunity" to what... annoy people overseas who live in a perfect bubble???
Let me tell something as truthful as the fact that no evil lasts forever... it is a hell of a lot more difficult to wake up and realize that your job annoys people, but that it is the only job that pays just as much to support your family... than to pick up the phone, on your free time and do a survey... or to politely reject it if busy...
I apologize for using forceful language on my post, but it hurts to see people so nicely fooled and blinded that cannot just have a glimpse of the reality of others... a reality that's been created by a greedy, selfish empire that is the US.
Sad but true...
I hope God bless you all.
X from "Datascensation" at April 8, 2010 7:52 PM
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