It's The Fathers, Stupid
CNN published a piece with the title "Black and married: No, marriage isn't just for white people," probably in hopes of inflaming their way to some traffic. Camille Felton, a CNN copy editor, writes:
I'm an African-American woman who's married to an African-American man.Some people might consider me to be a rare find. I don't feel like an anomaly, but statistically, I am. According to U.S. Census records, I'm one of about 30% of black women who are married. My husband and I will be celebrating our 17th wedding anniversary in August. We live in a suburb of Atlanta, with our two kids and a dog, in a house with a picket fence.
Just the other day we were having a discussion about relationships with a group of married and single friends. Someone asked us if we had any advice to give. I really don't. I don't think I have any special secret. I certainly can't tell anyone how or where to find a husband. We were kids when we met in church, and we started dating years later when I was in college. We may have a solid marriage because we're following the examples we grew up with, just as people say single parents are emulating the example of their single parents. My husband's parents have been married for more than 40 years. My parents are no longer together, but they didn't split until I was grown and had a family.
Here's the comment I left below Felton's piece. The more I think about it, the more I suspect it's the case:
The notion that marriage is just for whites is just a headline getter, and all the people remarking with ire at it are missing the point: Probably the reason for many of the problems in the black community is the lack of intact families and the lack of a father in the home. Fathers are very, very essential, despite what selfish "single-by-choice" mothers will tell you, whether they are 16-year-old black high school students or older, upper-class white women.
Disturbingly, there are now self-help books to tell women how to go about this:
Knock Yourself Up: No Man? No Problem: A Tell-All Guide to Becoming a Single Mom.
I became a single mom "by choice" only because my daughters' father refuses to grow up and be a father! I thank the gods every day for my parents, for supporting me and helping me as much as they have. And BF is much more of a father figure in emotional, financial and every other kind of support than the girls' father has ever been. That's a sad statement for a woman of any color to have to make, but I'm one of the (few) lucky ones, and I thank the gods every day for that, too. o_O
Flynne at July 29, 2008 8:53 AM
I'm not sure that I would have chosen to be a single mom, but I don't regret being one. When I found out what a piece of garbage I married I really didn't see that I had any other choice. And, like Flynne's, my BF is more of a father to my girls than theirs ever was. Flynne, do you ever have people ask you "If you could go back, would you do it again?"
Sandy at July 29, 2008 9:27 AM
Oh, and I think it's scary that there's a "how to" book on being a single mom. O_o
Sandy at July 29, 2008 9:29 AM
Flynne, do you ever have people ask you "If you could go back, would you do it again?"
Oh gods, Sandy, all the time! And I say yes, because I love my daughters just the way they are. Well, maybe I woudn't have married their father, but I wouldn't change who my girls are, not for the world - the both of them are just awesome in so many ways.
Oh, and I think it's scary that there's a "how to" book on being a single mom.
Yeah, I'm with you on this too. I wonder if the woman who wrote it is a single mom. (Somehow I doubt it.) I would never encourage anyone to become a single parent; it's just too much responsibility. I had a friend in high school who had a t-shirt that said (paraphrasing here, because I don't remember it all, and I don't have it in front of me, but this is close) "There is no responsibility more demanding, no undertaking more awesome, than that of being a mother." - Richard Milhouse Nixon
And under that it said "Thanks a lot, Dick." - Francis Vincent Zappa
o_O
Flynne at July 29, 2008 9:51 AM
I completely agree that fathers are very important, despite the fact that I'm also in the "single-mom" demographic. Yes, I smacked my forehead at the stupidity of a book telling someone how to have kids alone - send them my way and I'll explain just how hard it is to be both mom and dad with no break ever. But someone also needs to remind the fathers that they are important.
My ex considers himself a just fine dad, despite the fact that he hasn't had any contact at all with his children in over a year, and not once in the 8 years we've been apart has he called them (I used to make them call him, but after a few years I decided that if it wasn't that important to him, why should I keep fighting the battle?). On the other hand, I have friends who are divorced but still talk to their kids every day, make all school/sports/misc events and are all around ideal parents while holding down demanding jobs. It's not about staying in a marriage - it's about realizing that you have to be a good parent and making your children the top of your priority list. In fact, sometimes staying in the marriage can be a bad thing since you may be so busy avoiding a spouse you can't stand that the kids get caught in the crossfire (or so I would imagine...). For a "ho-hum" marriage, you should work on it, but for a really bad marriage, get out so that your children can have two adults who can be happy and give them the love and attention they deserve.
Kristyle at July 29, 2008 10:16 AM
Here's a sad story...
A couple years ago, I was a teacher in an inner-city school for girls. Our school social worker would have workshops about relationships with them. She related this story.
One day, she was talking about what makes a healthy relationship. Obvious things came up... respects you, doesn't hit you, etc. One girl , about 10 years old, responded with, "Yeah right, like that's realistic!"
The social worker said, "Well, I'm married, and my husband respects me and doesn't hit me."
"That's different," said the girl, "You're white."
Depressing, isn't it?
Also depressing was a lunch discussion I had with some coworkers, who weren't white. We were talking about men, and one woman was mentioning this one guy who she didn't want to date because his forehead was odd. I said I thought that was a bit superficial. So they asked me what my criteria were (this was before I was married). I mentioned education and intelligence in my wishlist. They looked at me like I was crazy.
"Wow, you're picky!" one said, "I'm just happy if he has a job and hasn't been to jail."
The point I am trying to make is that, anecdotally at least, it seems to me that relationship expectations are so low in the community, that it's no wonder they aren't finding good lovers/husbands. There's a cultural problem. At least, I see it as a problem. Low expectations is a problem.
I'm not going to go out and say the Oprah-endorsed Secret book is the be-all and end-all of life, but I think there is something to be said for having high expectations. As in "Of course I'll go to college/have a job/find someone great/ etc." Even if one doesn't end up with ALL of what one wants, one will still end up with much of it, if that makes sense.
NicoleK at July 29, 2008 10:32 AM
This makes me wonder where I could find statistics about how many black guys are in jail, and how much of that can be attributed to the drug war. Because I hate the drug war and would love to blame it for more problems than I already can. Just think - if we could get the Republifundies on our side because the drug war compromises The Famblee, maybe we could make some progress.
Pirate Jo at July 29, 2008 10:47 AM
From one of the reviews:
To her credit, Sloan shares plenty of her story about being a single lesbian, fresh from a breakup, going through the insemination process solo in order to have her son, Scott, both the highs (taking her son to swing dance class!) and lows (dealing with hemorraghing at the hospital alone, for one). But having the perspectives of so many other women, including their horror and success stories, is what makes this book so valuable. The interviewees talk about everything from the intersection of race, stereotypes, and single parenthood, to how they're perceived by potential dates, neighbors, and peers, the positives of being on their own as well as the loneliness and pitfalls.
'K, so she is a mom. o_O
Flynne at July 29, 2008 10:57 AM
'K, so she is a mom.
It doesn't make it any less scary.
Sandy at July 29, 2008 11:51 AM
"My ex considers himself a just fine dad, despite the fact that he hasn't had any contact at all with his children in over a year"
I'm guessing he must not have had much of a relationship with his own father? It's a shame to see him passing this along to yet another generation.
Pirate Jo at July 29, 2008 12:11 PM
I hate single motherhood. Hate it. Hate it.
Great post, Amy
Crid [cridcridatgmail] at July 29, 2008 12:25 PM
"When I found out what a piece of garbage I married..."
And there you have a major reason Amy's employed. You're lucky - because you didn't know - that you don't have a horrible disease, or that he didn't decide to put you in the ground one fine day. Lots of people get married for no damned reason to people they don't know. Question: are you habitually better at evaluating people now?
"This makes me wonder where I could find statistics about how many black guys are in jail, and how much of that can be attributed to the drug war."
Well, don't be naive and commit the investigative fallacy of seeking a predetermined result - but you can start here. Everybody needs to know what arrest/criminal trends are doing in America, so that they don't get lied to by the latest blowhard.
Radwaste at July 29, 2008 12:37 PM
"Question: are you habitually better at evaluating people now?"
That's hard to answer. I would have said before he came along that I was a good judge of character, but he was better at hiding his true self. I'm less trusting than I used to be, that's for sure. I "knew" him for five years before we got married, so I thought I really knew him. And I know I'm lucky, even though he never would have put me in the ground. His is a different kind of garbage.
Sandy at July 29, 2008 12:44 PM
I'm guessing he must not have had much of a relationship with his own father? It's a shame to see him passing this along to yet another generation.
No, but I don't consider that to be an excuse. My parents were far worse than his (I have court records showing how bad my parents were!) and I've just used that as an example of how NOT to be a parent. We all make choices regarding how we behave and the fact that I had it bad growing up doesn't give me the right to make my kids suffer through the same things. For my son, I try to give him a wide variety of male role models so that he will know how to be a good father when his time comes.
Kristyle at July 29, 2008 1:11 PM
I agree Kristyle - I wasn't saying it was an excuse either. Both of my parents came from what I would call rather screwed-up families, but they both did a better job themselves.
I do wonder how a guy, after having a loving and close relationship with his own father, could opt to abandon his own kids. I think men who abandon their kids are either obsessed with getting even with the children's mother, or they never wanted to be parents in the first place. Maybe there are other reasons - I can't think of what they might be.
Pirate Jo at July 29, 2008 1:48 PM
When I was six, my father moved our family from Massachussetts to Georgia in pursuit of one of his life-long dreams. His wife and children had to wait three months before we could join him. My father left my mother the second night after we arrived in Georgia. He had already found another family. He found a nice southern belle ten years his junior, plus her extended family to replace the one he made with my mom. I guess that's a pretty sad story, but the truth is that he did a better job at parenting than either one of his parents did for him. Abandonment wasn't exactly a stranger to his childhood. I didn't really think this affected me much as a child. I didn't really know him well or like him much even at going on seven.
I have been called detatched and cold by some people I have dated. My friends think I am uncompromising when it comes to men. And maybe I am a little of these things, but here's the part of the story that always got to me:
My mother, who is one of the kindest, honest, fair, practical people you will ever know waited more than ten years for a man that was never worth it to come back to her. I used to watch her lean her sadness on her elbow and stare out of an open window. He would drunk dial her in moments of clarity, and she would live off of the hope of that call for a year. As a parent, I have inherited her patience and love; but, as a partner, I think I have moved beyond what she was capable of in relationships; neither scenario is easy or great. My mom is now married to a Christian pastor who is the biggest asshole I have ever known.
It takes a near miracle to be much different from your parents. I guess most people change or grow or however you want to say it, but I don't think it's a very substantial change. Of course there are exceptions, but for the most part......
kg at July 29, 2008 1:50 PM
This makes me wonder where I could find statistics about how many black guys are in jail, and how much of that can be attributed to the drug war. Because I hate the drug war and would love to blame it for more problems than I already can. Just think - if we could get the Republifundies on our side because the drug war compromises The Famblee, maybe we could make some progress.
Posted by: Pirate Jo at July 29, 2008 10:47 AM
Yeah Jo, those dang Republifundies. 'Cause the Democrats ya know, they've been sooooooooooooo principled in their opposition to the drug war. Yep. Gonna take that one on just as soon as the Democrats pull us out of Iraq when we get a Democratic Congress in Novem... Oh...wait... nevermind.
Wolfmanmac at July 29, 2008 2:49 PM
on the upside about the book... if you actually only want a kid and NOT a partner, then please, don't involve a partner... we might be deluded into believeing that as a parent, we have a responsibility too, take it seriously and such. You know that will be no end of grief when you intend to let the kids do anything they want, and we intend to make them into responsible adults. oh, wait, I sound bitter.
So Pirate Jo, I'm guessin' the father issue predates the drugwar... by a lot. It may be stupid, but I don't think we can blame that. Perhaps LBJ's great society could shoulder some of the blame, and the fact that in 40 years we haven't gotten things turned around... or even identified which problem should be tackled first.
I'm a grinch, so I'll say that if the problem isn't tolerated, it doesn't propagate... and it's odd how that happens. If you don't allow worthless good for nuttin's a free ride in the community, you weed them out. I'm not talking people who turn out to be worthless. I'm talking about people waiting for something big to happen, while doing nothing. "I'm gonna be big someday, but for now, I have to get a job somewhere else..." Is an attitude about having to work to live that takes you lots of places. It may also make you move. If you have a place to live given to you, if you scrape by getting food with a minimal job, or on handouts, and if you can have your fun with various women who are waiting for you to change... then you won't change. There isn't a point to it. If you get dumped on your ear in the street, get laughed at by any girl you even glance at, and have to head to uncle joes place in the country, because he needs a hired hand, and nobody else will help you... guess where you go?
These qualities are something that cannot be forced on the community from outside, IMHO. Having to work hard to get anywhere, or having to go somewhere to work hard, is a trait you are raised with. If you can stay in place and do nothing, you will do that. If no-one forces you to be responsible, you won't be. Personal responsibility actually isn't personal. It is a someting you take as an individual, and something you demand as a society. The minute somebody whipes your nose for you, you will stop doing so.
There is a difference between helping somebody up who is having a rough time, and helping somebody all the time. IMHO anyway... these guys won't BE fathers if you don't let 'em, and in a few generations this particlar problem stops. Hopefully not to be replaced by something else.
SwissArmyD at July 29, 2008 3:11 PM
Hey, I'll have you all know the Democrats irritate me just as much as the Republifundies. AND the drug war.
Pirate Jo at July 29, 2008 3:48 PM
Well, I go two ways about this.
Some fathers are worse than no father and if I had it to do all over again, I'd never ever tell my daughter's father she existed. But I'd have to concur with the other single moms that being a single mom is so difficult that it boggles the mind that anyone would choose to be one. If I actually had it to do all over again, she probably just wouldn't exist.
That said, I support my grandson's father if he should seek custody (he's decided not to for now with everyone saying the court would go along with the mommyhood bit) and most fathers aren't such extreme nightmares that they shouldn't be a part of their children's lives no matter what's gone down between their mother and them.
Still, I'm skeptical when some dude says she won't let me see my children and have to call bullshit on it. There are probably exceptions where the mother can pull this off but, while it may be tough for dad to get custody, without proven violence or something else extreme, no court is gonna deny visitation. Hell, if you hit their mom but not them, you get visitation. If you molest them, you don't get denied unless she has 100% proof. Then you'd probably still get supervised visitation. It's unbelievable what it takes to get visitation denied.
They too have rights as a biological parent. If they insist on seeing their child, the court's gonna grant them visitation. I don't buy the arugument "she's making it too difficult to keep fighting." Bull pucky. You're being too lazy to fight for/see your kid. It's work you're not willing to do.
Kristyl, I hear you. I too broke the cycle of abuse. Both my parents hit (though they got away with it, even when my father broke my brother's collarbone) but I never beat my child. I too would use them as an example of what not to do. It is much harder to be close to others as an adult when you were abused as a child. Just for starters, trust is very difficult. Even when you do, it's so tentatively, at least at first, and people who haven't been there don't understand why you won't trust them.
T's Grammy at July 30, 2008 7:23 AM
"If they insist on seeing their child, the court's gonna grant them visitation." T's Grammy
This is very true, but...
A] you have to go to court, get the lawyer and such and schedule the date. This can take months, easy. Last I enquired in CO [due to my ex pulling something] the date was 6 months out. Now I can no longer afford it.
B] who enforces this exactly? How much are you willing to get the sherrifs called to force your ex to give you the kids for the weekend? What ramification does that have for the kids? What retaliation will your ex take? How often is the ex mysteriously not there to let you have the kids? How often are they not feeling well enough to go to your house? Remember the old saw about possession being 9/10 of the law? How are you going to make her open her front door if she doesn't want to?
These things are not impossible, but you do have to make up your mind how the fight with the ex will effect the kids. None of it rises to the level of her moving to a different state and then challenging you to make her give you the kids [though that happens sometimes...]. If I thought my ex was a DANGER to my children, that would take precedence. But soft power is using the children as pawns to punish the ex. This obviously can happen on both sides...
As all such things do, it mostly effects the person acting in good faith, and the innocent children. No court can change that. I know a number of people that don't speak to one or the other of their parents now that they are adults, because the kid finally grew up and figured out what their parent was using them to do to the other parent.
SwissArmyD at July 30, 2008 1:19 PM
Pirate Jo,
In that case I apologize. You and I might be on the same side of things.
Wolfmanmac at July 31, 2008 5:24 AM
Swiss, to not fight to see the kid also sends a message -- that they aren't worth the trouble. Frankly, given that the kids aren't dragged into court with you, it's a cop-out.
If the mother is one to say daddy's dragging me to court and exaggerate why, what the hell do you think she's filling the kids' heads with anyway? It ain't good and you ain't countering it. In other words, she may not be neglecting, beating or molesting them, but, she is a danger to them.
You might want to rethink this. For your children's sake. If you want a relationship with your kids, you don't want to just hope they'll figure it all out when they grow up. Even if they do figure out she's a douche, they're gonna feel neglected by you and think the same of you (especially if she's been telling them what a prick you are).
I never went to family court in CO since I skipped state with my daughter and he only showed up once to freak me out and never bothered again but do you need a lawyer to file a complaint and, if you do, won't the court provide one? Yeah, a lawyer you pay money for is ideal but you can proceed with a court-appointed in most jurisdictions. Besides, what do you want, a relationship with your kids or the other shit the money would buy?
I know all about kids who have nothing to do with their parents as adults. I'm one of them and have known plenty of others. No matter what they think of Mom when they grow up, they ain't gonna think Dad's some kind of hero for not fighting to see them while they were growing up.
Also, it ain't like TV and the movies. Most of us who disown our parents as adults are not charmed when they come around now that we're grown and they no longer have to take care of us but are hoping we will them in their old age. Don't think so.
Oh, and both my parents are now dead. Also don't believe this bit from the movies. I am not sorry that I didn't make up with them before they died. I am only relieved that they're dead and I don't have to worry about them popping up in my life and possibly having to call the police to remove them from my doorstep (if they refuse to go when I tell them to get lost).
T's Grammy at July 31, 2008 9:39 AM
"I never went to family court in CO since I skipped state with my daughter" T's
This is one of the things that any ex can easily do, that the court can do little about, and I have been threatened with it.
But I didn't explain myself well with what my sitch is... I do have an excellent relationship with my kids, and the ex no longer threatens my relationship with them, at least not often. Those actions stopped when I asked pointedly if she was not going to keep her end of the decree, why I should. She gets 58% of my takehome pay, and that is a fairly powerful incentive for her.
It is a balancing act in any case... and fighting for the kids, and custody and so on can have unintended consequences. For several of my friends it resulted in their ex's skipping town and them never seeing the kid again. And/Or having a restraining order put out for them so that they can't get near the house at all. Generally a woman doesn't have to even prove a threat, she just has to say she feels threatened. [tangentially this has been quite a topic of discussion recently, because restraining orders only work against those people that are willing to abide by them. People who are really willing to do a criminal act, don't care.]
In some cases this is cut and dried and others, not so much.
AFAIK there is no court appointed representation for custody cases, perhaps unless you can show severe financial need...
SwissArmyD at July 31, 2008 11:19 AM
"Also, it ain't like TV and the movies. Most of us who disown our parents as adults are not charmed when they come around now that we're grown"
I couldn't agree with you more, T's Grammy. It was a relief to grow up and get enough sense not to care about the "relationship" with my dad. People still advise me (and I think it is exactly what you said...because of the movies) on how and why I should have a relationship with my dad. They are always shocked when I say that he is simply not worth my time. And he really, really isn't. Some of my siblings continually try to have him in their lives and 9 times out of 10, just talking with him brings more stress to the situation.
I don't believe in soul mates, but if there is such a thing, my dad and my step monster are definitely soul mates. I've never seen two people so perfectly bring each other down quite so repugnantly low and in such equal harmony. They both are functioning alcoholics who will drink themselves into a loathing stupor. They only stop screaming at each other when they are so drunk the sounds coming out of their mouths are basically unitelligible. It's actually pretty funny to watch. I oughta try to video them and put it on youtube.
kg at July 31, 2008 4:28 PM
Yeah, I'm sorry, Swiss, I did misunderstand your post. I'm glad to hear you're in their lives.
And we'll share a hatred of those kind of vindictive bitches. They are exactly the reason it's so tough for women like me who actually need to protect their children to do so legally.
As for fighting for custody, I hear you. As I said, I'm facing that situation with my grandson, actually supporting his father in that. I do understand why he's hesitating and waiting until he has even a stronger case -- and that's knowing I'm willing to go to court and testify against my own daughter to support him in custody.
I am left wondering if she had some other debilitating illness other than mental illness, a physical illness that hindered her ability to care for her son, if they'd still cling to this PC crap of mother's right to mother; however, at this point, I wouldn't put it past them. Sigh.
Sadly, I'll be very surprised if he won't have to file for custody in the end. I just learned at group support last night that many mental patients have their crises at regular times each year and she's two for two with spring. At least, I now know to be extra alert next spring -- not that I can really prevent it.
T's Grammy at August 1, 2008 6:55 AM
AFAIK there is no court appointed representation for custody cases, perhaps unless you can show severe financial need...
Swiss - I'm not sure where you live, but I do know that in Texas they will give you court appointed representation if you ask for it. It will take FOREVER, though. Doesn't sound like it's worth the effort in your case, but there you go!
For what it's worth (which isn't much, I know!) I for one am glad to hear that you're staying in your children's lives. As T's Grammy said, your kids will remember it when they are adults and can make their own decisions. Even if it's just a phone call or a message on an answering machine they will know that you tried and they appreciate it!
Kristyle at August 1, 2008 10:48 AM
This is the Amy Alkon I love...to read. I'm still waiting on that cloning service.
Jeff at August 1, 2008 2:38 PM
Aww, thanks.
Amy Alkon at August 1, 2008 4:12 PM
I have two comments:
A woman who was married to the father of her child is not a single mother. She is a divorced mother. Her child has a legal father. Whether or not he's an asshole doesn't change the fact that he at least, at one time, made some commitment to the relationship and is legally responsible for his offspring.
A women who can't figure out how big of an asshole her husband is by the time she finishes spitting out one kid, and still goes on to have another kid is too stupid for words.
Jaynie59 at August 3, 2008 4:35 PM
Uh, Jaynie, biological daddy is a legal father married to baby mama or not and, as such, has legal rights. Sure, he may have to get a court-ordered paternity test to prove he is the kid's father if mom's denying it (how often is that versus the other way around, mom having to get one to prove he is) but he's got legal rights.
Frankly, the marriage-based thing should be done away with. Too many husbands who thought they were fathers were not and if your wife has a baby, it is presumed that hubby is daddy. Probably most often the case but not always and he might not always be aware he isn't.
Frankly, we run tests on newborns for other things. Why not add this now that we have such accurate technology for it? At least when daddy is named or husband is presumed. Sure this might bust up some marriages when hubby isn't the daddy he thought he was but, hell, when that's the case, I think it was kinda on the rocks anyway and certainly women shouldn't get away with cheating then passing kid resulting from affair off as hubby's anyway.
T's Grammy at August 4, 2008 11:05 AM
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has disowned their parents. I made my peace with them 5 years ago, and left them to each other. They are narcissistic alcoholics, and don't notice my absence, so they leave me alone. I'm very happy and emotionally healthy now, which is more than I can say for my siblings, who still try to have a relationship with them, and are extremely unhappy.
Chrissy at August 6, 2008 12:01 PM
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