I've always liked Sheriff Joe's approach..

Love Arpaio. Love the whining and gnashing of teeth of his opponents even more.

You can buy some of the infamous pink underwear at www.Pinkunderwear.com

This guy ROCKS! I've loved him since Dh brought him to my attention years ago.

Well, the son of a bitch needs to cover that $42 million somehow.

Not that this makes a whole lot of sense anyways, seeing as all it will really do is keep folks from putting cash in prisoner accounts. While the mark-up isn't huge, I doubt that the loss in commissary revenue will be covered by people actually putting money in their accounts to cover it.

And if you think this is new, it's not really, just a new twist. I am not aware of a jail in the country that doesn't charge prisoners a fee per day of incarceration. Usually between $35 and $60 per. The people who can't afford it and won't pay, aren't likely to pay this one. The ones who are concerned about their credit and make the money, already pay surcharges which are substantially more than this paltry sum.

This bungled raid is the first time this fucking moron was brought to my attention.

Because everybody knows that you really need a bunch of morons playing soldier, to make a misdemeanor arrest for traffic infractions.

And rights, you don't deserve no stinking rights in Joe's world. At least not if you have the audacity to criticize him.

Go ahead and love him if you want. In fact, if you love him that much, why not help the tax-payers in his county cover the costs of having him as sheriff.

Any ideas on how to work towards making marijuana legal?

DuWayne, thanks for the enlightening links. Makes me glad I left AZ while the gettin' was good.

Oh boo-hoo. This heartless vile bitch cares not a damn about lawbreakers. Don't like the law, work to change it. Breaking it gets you jail and ajil's not fun. This is not a new concept. I'm not sure why dumbasses aren't getting it yet.

Given that the taxpayers in his county voted him in and continue to do so, I think they are a-ok with paying his costs themselves. Democracy at work. You know, when people get to vote in the person the majority like? You are familiar with that?

Cry me a river over the lawsuits, those against Joe are nothing new. I have a family member who works in corrections in Connecticut; inmates sue over anything they can think of because 1) they can, 2)they're bored, 3)it's on the taxpayer's dollar, and 4)they're malicious.

http://www.flashreport.org/featured-columns-library0b.php?faID=2008090402471827

Yes, he has a disproportionate amount of lawsuits pending against him. I think it's called rocking the boat.

Ok, so I talked to a K-zoo county deputy I went to school with and he told me that in the commissary here, the jail makes sixty cents on the dollar. He seemed to think this is pretty standard, at least in MI. From a purely economic perspective, this just doesn't make a lot of sense.

momof3 -

Honestly, I could care less about the comfort of prisoners either. But Maracopa county has exceptionally high rates of prisoners deaths per capita. And many of his grand ideas have been shot down by courts as cruel and unusual punishment. This is not a particularly high bar to make, when the courts say what you're doing in your jail is fucked up, it's fucked up.

But his treatment of prisoners aside, the man's a fucking menace. Did you click the link in my second comment? Read it and see just what a great department he runs. In short, they botched a raid beyond belief. Burned down the house. Terrorized the neighborhood. If they actually believed the weapons they claimed to be looking for were there, they endangered everyone in the neighborhood, by not only failing to notify municipal police, but also failing to clear the surrounding houses. They forced the resident's dog back into the burning house, where it screamed until it was overcome by the fire - then left the corpse to rot. All that and much more.

Or read the third link, where Arpaio arrested the editor of the local alt weekly, because he happens to be very critical of Arpaio. He also tried to get the ISP records, to find out who was reading the alt weekly online.

Pink underwear? Great idea and I'm all for it. Making prisoners work - sounds good to me. Cramming them into tent cities in a hundred degree plus temperatures and lacking essential sanitary facilities - not ok. Denying prisoners essential medical care - not ok. Beating prisoners to death - not ok. Sending in untrained, unprofessional SWAT wannabes - not ok. Sending same unprofessional band of goons to raid Mesa municipal buildings to arrest a few illegal immigrants, without informing Mesa PD (who were already investigating the cleaning contractor) and endangering the lives of everyone on those sites - including U.S. citizens and legally documented workers - not ok.

Amy -

I don't have a problem with making prisoners pay, I just think this one will be a net financial loser. Cut the amount of money that goes into those accounts (and I have little doubt that this will) and not only do you not get much coming in from this, but you lose the revenue from commissary.

A much better plan is to get more prisoners actually working. Push trustee jobs on the shorter term prisoners and get longer term prisoners doing laundry, running metal presses, running printing equipment and take the low risk folks and get them working in the community. Don't make it optional - make sure they will work off what they are actually getting charged and have some money for when they are released. Most importantly, make them really work - something a lot of deputies really could care less about when supervising laboring trustees.

Julianna -

The lawsuits in that article are from the families of prisoners who died in custody. Some of them for lack of essential medical care, including a diabetic who was refused the insulin his wife brought in for him.

If you don't see a problem with that, there is something seriously wrong with you.

Oi, I should note that I meant the article I linked, not yours.

I agree, DuWayne. Withholding life-saving medical care (like aforementioned insulin)is aggregious. On the other hand, holding someone accountable for your health care after you've overdosed on smuggled meth while in their prison is a head-scratcher (Charles Agster and Scott Norberg). Ambria Spencer is suing him for losing her baby in prison for lack of medical care. Why is she in prison? For DUI. While pregnant. Again, a head scratcher. Some of them just don't add up. How can you legally neglect yourself, but once someone else doesn't take care of you, they're accountable? Some people are just plain self-destructive, but hey, if you can make a buck out of your rationale, drag others down in the process, go for it! This country's made an industry out of it.

Very well said, DuWayne.

Sheriff Joe Arpaio is slicker than snot on a doorknob marketing himself & his regime to the "proud to be non-PC" crowd.

But when you look closely, he's one nasty little shit.

The courts have said not allowing prisoners TV is cruel and unusual and a violation of their rights. So you're right, the bar is low-as to what's a violation. Doesn't mean a certain idea is fucked up. Tent cities? Why not? Plenty of poor have no AC. Whatever happened to chain gangs?

I agree they should have to work. For no pay. At least, none that they receive. Medical care? Plenty on the outside don't have it and can't afford it. Why should we foot the tax bill for jailbirds to get it?

If jail were less appealing-3 squares a day, healthcare, climate control, tv, etc, -maybe fewer would choose to go there and might decide to work instead.

Having sppent exactly one night in jail-a shitty, horrible, terribly uncomfortable and scary night-I will not be doing anything that could get me sent back. I was there because I was a dumbass. Put yourself in that situation, I don't think you get to bitch.

With the very high rate of gang affiliation, and general violent criminal mindset, in jail and prison, cops and guards have targets on them. They get attacked. So I'm rather a doubting thomas on an inmates' claims that he was randomly beat by guards. More likely, it was either made up, or defending against an attack from that prisoner.

A quick note to clarify a couple of things.

First, I was not criticizing Arpaio in response to Amy's blog post, but in response to his fan club.

Second, I am all for tougher sheriffs and think Arpaio has some great ideas, including the pink underwear. Which is my problem with Arpaio - he makes sheriffs who want to be tougher and who have equally good ideas, look bad. Makes it harder to get measures that look anything like Arpaio's example harder to push through in a lot of jurisdictions. There was a guy who ran in Multnomah county who didn't even come close, because his opponents painted him with the same brush that Arpaio deserves.

Finally, I want to clarify the problems with the sheriff's departments not notifying municipal police when they act in their jurisdictions. In almost every jurisdiction I am aware of, this is illegal - it is against state law in MI.

This creates a very dangerous situation for local law enforcement, especially in drug/gang related cases where locals might have undercover officers in play. Even when there aren't undercover officers involved in a case, local PDs might mistake the actions of outside law enforcement for criminal actions and respond accordingly - indeed in the case linked in my second comment, local police were not aware and neighbors called them as the deputies were using unmarked cars and unmarked SWAT gear.

Momof3, I'm shocked. Jail? You?!?!?

Actually, not so much. I avoided the same thing on a technicality- since my "dumbass" infraction was on school grounds, it became an administrative issue. Luck favors the dumbass rather than the prepared, sometimes.

Why yes momof3, dead people are always lying about getting beaten to death by deputies. And withholding the insulin the guy's wife brought in (or not allowing him to get care on his insurance company's dime) was perfectly reasonable.

Being so dead against abortion, one would think you'd at least be up in arms about refusing care to a pregnant women who ultimately lost her fetus because she was refused. Twasn't the fetus's fault she was in jail.

I note your silence about the non-jail problems with this fucking lunatic. What? Can't think of any justifications for his insanity?

A hypothetical comes to mind, that might drive this home to you, momof3.

Lets assume for the moment, that one of your three, soon to be four children has the misfortune of becoming a diabetic (it's not just a fat person disease). Now I'm going to assume that most, if not all your children will go to college, so we'll fast forward to the diabetic's college years.

One night, he decides to join some friends in some drinking (even good kids, raised in good households can fall prey to this) and ends up getting himself arrested for drunken disorderly - he's drunk and the diabetes makes it worse, because of all the sugar. But he still has the clarity of mind to realize that he really needs his diabetes medicine.

He tells the arresting officer, but he's ignored. He gets booked and throughout this process he's getting more and more out of it, because he's going into shock. He finally gets to the part where he can make a phone call and is barely lucid enough, but calls you, his mom, in the hopes that you can help get him the medicine he needs.

You're upset, but also realize that he really needs to get his meds, or he could slip into a diabetic coma (which would appear to the guards like he passed out finally) and die. You call the jail and tell them he desperately needs his medication or he could die. You tell them you are on the way over with it. They tell you not to bother, that they'll take to the ER in the morning. You explain that that might be too late - they respond that they'll try to get him in tonight.

They don't. He dies.

Are you willing to tell me that's an acceptable outcome to you? If it isn't for your child, why is it for anyone else's?

I'm gonna interrupt and insert myself where you've addressed Momof3. Terribly rude of me, and I do apologize to the both of you.

Ask any cop on the beat what the number one method for getting out of an arrest or disrupting any portion of the criminal process is. They'll tell you, declare a medical emergency, fake a seizure, an insulin reaction, chest pains, or passing out. Then get lost at the hospital where the cop doesn't have the time to babysit you in the ER for 14 hours. Logically, people have cried wolf often enough that law enforcement have become desensitized and consider it an evasion tactic not worthy of real medical attention. Paramedics are of the same mind. They'll simply arrive on the scene, perform a sternal rub (HOLY @#$% that HURTS!!!) Who's to blame? The criminals for crying wolf too many times, or the cops/jailers/paramedics etc for getting burned out/fed up with their time being wasted or otherwise manipulated?

A botched raid is always a disaster, and a massive breach of one's constitutional right "To be secure in one's person, house, papers, vehicle, and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures.".... but they do happen outside of Arpaio's jurisdiction: Minneapolis, MN to the tune of a $600,00 settlement, Prince George, MD, at the Mayor's house with two dead dogs, a 92-yr. old lady in Atlanta back in Nov. 2006, the list goes on and on. Not a justification, just an indication that other law enforcement professionals f*** up very badly.

A prostitution sting where the cops crossed the legal line while trying to maintain their "cover". Eeeeeeew, I don't want to go here....

Harassment of journalists? I'm a bit cynical and probably inappropriate on this one; modern journalists who take liberties with their protections, expect the First Amendment to grant them carte blanche but scream like banshees when someone gives it back to them?

Thanks Juliana. I've no doubt my kid drinking and being stupid at college is a possibility, given that's how I spent my night at the county B&B. Not excusing any one act that I don't have all the facts on. I'm saying I'll take him over pansy-ass criminal-coddlers any day.

I am from a law enforcement family, and while I see some things that aren't perfect, on the whole, I see what the people charged with keeping order but stripped of any real power or authority go through on a daily basis. I side with them in any gray area. Sometimes, they fuck up. They're human.

My brother had to scrape up, literally, a man off of about 1/2 mile of freeway one night after a hit and run. The things these people see do desensitize them. Do you want to fill their shoes? I don't. Much like the slaughterhouse, some necessaries I'd just as soon happen outside my vision and daily life.

Some think we need to save society's resources by not helping/birthing the disabled. I say save them by not spending on criminals.

This story leads to a natural segue about society as a whole. I don't know how precisely welfare works in the U.S. but here in Canada and even more so in the UK it has become apparent that if someone doesn't want to work then they can get money from the government.

Some have suggested that able-bodied welfare recipient should have to do something to claim their welfare, as little as 4 hours per day, 5 days per week. Of course, whenever this is suggested then the bleeding hearts of the Radical Left scream "human rights violation"!

I've had a few proverbial kicks in my ass in my life. They're aka "interventions" by friends & family. They did me a lot of good. I think the same would be the case for welfare recipients.

I have to question the assumption that a huge percentage of our total prison population consists of people convicted solely of drug possession. I personally am in favor of decriminalization, but I harbor no delusions that it will reduce our prison population significantly. The stereotype of the young guy doing 3-5 years for having an ounce of pot on him was an artifact of the 1960s-70s, if it ever was true at all. Most police jurisdictions don't waste much time on pot these days; they are far too busy going after meth cookers and guys who hold up pharmacies for Oxycontin.

Juliana -

I'm well aware of the shit deputies and EMTs have to put up with. I've been to jail more than once and have friends who are or have been deputies, both in the jails and on the streets. I'm sympathetic and even understanding of the predicament they are in when it comes to dealing with arrestee's who pretend they have medical problems they don't.

But that does not mean that they should ignore them. And the problem with people escaping while in the hospital, is not a big one. Most people - even when they're fucked up, realize that this is really fucking stupid. If they escape custody, they are facing federal felony charges that will land them in prison for a minimum of five years, IIRC - at least two. And they will still be liable for whatever they were facing in county.

The problem here, is in the assumption that all, or even most of the people in county jails are criminals. Many of them are people who did something stupid, but are otherwise reasonable citizens. Are you honestly going to say that someone deserves to die, simply because they got mildly out of hand when drunk? Or because they forgot to go to court for a ticket? Sure, these are irresponsible actions and deserve to be dealt with - preferably in a manner that will make sure that person is more responsible in the future, but death?

So let me throw the hypothetical at you - is that an acceptable outcome if it's your child or a different loved one?

(I will interject now, that being hired as, basically, a hatchetman/manager has it's downside. My supervisors and their crews are off until the new year. Nominally so am I, except that I'm the one all our subs who are still working call if there's a problem. So I get to head to a job tomorrow and deal with one of my supervisor's fuck-ups - probably soon to be former supervisor.)

As for the widespread problem of paramilitary raids gone wrong, yup, there are problems with a lot of law enforcement agencies on all levels. This doesn't excuse Arpaio, it just means there are a lot of departments that really need to make serious changes.

But google Arpaio and throw some other search words with it, such as lawsuits, SWAT or raids. These aren't isolated incidents by a long shot. Time and again his deputies have acted with wanton disregard for public safety and interdepartment cooperation. He truly believes that he is a law unto himself, a very dangerous attitude that has repeatedly endangered the lives of his own deputies, members of other departments and the public he is supposed to be protecting.

He gets away with it, in part because he is also notoriously close fisted with public information. He refuses to turn over records that the public is legally entitled to, so that it doesn't get published.

And this brings us to the journalists he's harassed. It's not that Arpaio just said nasty things about Michael Lacey and Jim Larkin, he arrested them.

Look, I am not a soft on crime and criminals kind of guy. I'm all for getting rid of the fucking tee vees and other comforts of home. Let them read or write if they want to entertain themselves - beyond that fuck 'em.

Dealing with violent criminals? Hit them and hit them hard. Don't risk the lives of officers, any more than necessary.

Dealing with bullshit offenders? Shouldn't be as harsh as you are on actual criminals, but make sure they really don't want to reoffend - make sure they want to go out of their way to avoid ever seeing the inside of a jail again. I'm all for it.

But this son of a bitch has gone far beyond that. He is dangerous to everybody, not just criminals, not just bullshit offenders - he's also a danger to the public at large and other law enforcement officers.

Hey cousin Dave, feel free to educate yourself.

Aside from the people in prison for non-violent drug offenses, there is a host of crime that would be substantially reduced if we legalized drugs and other vice crimes. The vast majority of street crime is a direct result of illegal drug sales, prostitution and gambling that takes place outside the state and native American monopolies. I am not naive enough to assume or claim this would eliminate crime, but it would eliminate the incentive for the vast majority of it.

And just in case you don't make it that far down the list, here is a link to the U.S. Department of Justice. Go down a screen or two for information about who exactly gets busted.

Julianna wrote - For DUI. While pregnant. Again, a head scratcher.

Got pregnat after arrest but before trial.

Incedentally the food that inmantes will have to pay for they dont even eat - if fails dept of health inspections most buy food from vending machines, a little side business owned by the arpios(odd how thwy go the contract) and the refuse to report thier earnings

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/arpaio

there you will find all sorts of nuggets of truth like

40,000 unserved felony warrants
That guy whos house was burned by the SWAT team was being served for missing TRAFFIC court, and the armored vehicle crushed a couple of cars down the block
He wanted the names and addreseof everyone who had looked at the New Times website in the last few years
He accused a political rival of raping his stepmother
He spends more time rounding up ilegal food sellers than policing outling county areas
He raided city government buildings to arrest 3 janitors(before verifing they were illegal) - didnt inform the city police before hand
Replaced SWAT members and leaders of political reasons leading to serious injurys
Arreseted journalists for showing up a news conferences and copying press releases
Refused to inform a local community about a child molester to avenge a slight by their local paper - as a result another child was attacked but managed to escape
Has held american citizens under fraudulent application of immigration law

As for a list of the dead I'll post the link and the part of article in the next post

And as for the people who elected him - its the fucking retirees who dont bother to do anything other than vote a straight republican ticket

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/content/printVersion/649709

• On March 26, 1996, Jose Rodriquez, 39, died in a pool of his own vomit on a jail floor. His cries for help went ignored by Arpaio's jail employees. Rodriquez's dehydration, fever and twitching ultimately led to his death, even while inmates shouted for help.

• On June 1, 1996, Scott Norberg, 35, suffocated in one of Arpaio's restraint chairs. Detention officers wrestled Norberg into the chair and bound his mouth with a towel. They continued to beat and Taser him after he was handcuffed, surveillance video and court documents show. His family later won an $8.25 million settlement against Arpaio.
(Interesting thing about this case, the familly's lawyer was able to show county officals had falsified and destroyed medical records about his injuries and subsequent death)

• Mentally retarded Charles Agster III, 33, was arrested for trespassing on August 6, 2001. Detention officers pulled a hood over his head and slammed him into a restraint chair. Agster was asphyxiated to the point that he became brain dead. He was pronounced legally dead three days later. In 2006, a federal court awarded $9 million to his family.

• In 2003, Phillip Wilson was serving two months in Tent City for a nonviolent offense. Wilson was attacked by the Aryan Brotherhood prison gang and bludgeoned into a coma. He never recovered.

• Deborah Braillard, 46, was documented as a diabetic in the jail's health records. Her cellmates say a nurse did not give Braillard insulin, and then detention officers ignored her when she went into diabetic shock. Braillard died on January 23, 2005, ultimately from lack of insulin.

• Legally blind and serving a short sentence in Tent City for shoplifting, Brian Crenshaw, 40, was transferred to solitary confinement after a tussle with Arpaio's detention officers. Six days later, he was found comatose in his solitary cell with a broken neck, ruptured intestines, broken toes, and severe internal injuries. Arpaio maintains Crenshaw sustained the injuries when he fell off his four-foot bed. Crenshaw died on March 14, 2005.

• In December 2005, Clint Yarbrough suffocated in a jail restraint chair. On April 18, 2007, the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors approved an undisclosed settlement payout to Yarbrough's family in excess of $1 million.

• Months before Thomas Bruce Cooley, 44, was found hanging by the bed sheets in his jail cell, a federal inspector had warned Arpaio that the jail psych ward was a suicide waiting to happen. A 1996 Department of Justice report specifically cautioned that inmates could use "overhanging structures" to hang themselves.

• Three more inmates died in the same way as Thomas Cooley while in Arpaio's custody: Kevin Holschlag, Michael Sanderson, and Juan Vasquez.

The problem with this guy is he corrals violent sociopaths with non violent offenders.

Joe is narcissistic, case in point he raided a junk yard for hiring illegals and weapons trafficing - got to wonder why the press was informed before hand if they were raiding a weapons ring but I digress.

Fact was there were no illegals and the "weapons" were one old peice of WW2 artillery that nearly crushed the owners father or grandfather - been in that yard scince it was brought over after the war - but that was never reported on by the local networks or the main papers because Joe political enimes have a nasty habit of winding up with their lives destroyed

This guy was jailed for "impersonating a law enforcment offical"

blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/Halloween_4.jpg
Then there was the time they "confiscated" all of the computers owned by a graphic artist working for a rival of Joes because one ad had a picture showing a MCSO sticker in a car window in the background

Oh, I almost forgot Richard Post, a paraplegic who "demanded" a catheder to urinate and was "restrained" to the point his neck was broken - but how cares if a parapalegic winds up as a quad am I right jules? momof3?

Oh wow, I didn't know all that. Thanks for the information. To hear the locals, he's a god send and I do like most of his ideas. (I own property in his county and travel there about once a year for business.) BUT I am not for people dieing and abuse of power...

The ocals who think hes a godsend live in a section of town overpopulated with speed bumbs and people who cant drive the speed limit making violent crime and fast getaways nearly impossible.

Plus thers all the onld guys who join the "posse" and help with crime prevention.

Though I really dont see how acctually fucking the hookers prevents crime as it invalidates the investigation.

But then again you can see why they would vote for the guy who got their cranks yanked.

Heres the latest getting arrested for applauding and criminal tresspass durring a public comments section of a public meeting held on public property

Wonder why all the people applauding werent arrested?

Dont know what happened to the link

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2008/12/four_mcsaacorn_members_free_on.php

You know, I was just talking to my dad about this and read him lujlp's post - after which he posed an interesting question;

Why would you spend time reading about and following this kind of horrible crap?

I think that question is as important as talking about Joe Arpaio, for a number of reasons. The first being, it implies that I shouldn't care, because it's not my problem. The problem with that mentality being that when it is my problem, I'm less likely to notice, if I subscribe to that notion. I am reasonably sure that that kind of corruption and wanton disregard isn't a problem where I live - but you can be damned sure that I'm pretty motivated to make sure of that.

And the thing is, it was my problem in Portland and Multnomah county Oregon. The stories considerably different there, but it comes down to citizens not paying nearly enough attention to what's going on. Just to scratch the surface, we built a fifty-six million dollar jail, without securing the funds to actually run the fucking thing. That story alone is rife with corruption. And there is plenty of ugly writhing below the shiny veneer that is Portland, OR - a city, in a county that I love quite dearly. And it is the fact that I love the home I was forced to leave for a while that raises the importance of paying attention to what writhes and squelches beneath.

But there is more that makes the story of Joe's corruption, incompetence and wanton disregard so important. All too many of us believe that this just isn't possible in this day and age. Yes, we need to be tougher, leaner and meaner. But the very people that move towards this ideal, are the ones that need to closest scrutiny - Joe is absolute proof of this. It's all too easy to excite ourselves at the notion that we have someone who's putting a dent in crime and doing things the way they should be done, that it makes it easy it ignore what lies underneath it all.

Don't look at the man behind the curtain.

This is exactly the phenom that got truly insane levels of corruption entrenched so thoroughly in Chicago in the fifties and has kept it alive there clear to today. Every so often a "reformer" comes along, cleans house and becomes the darling savior. Meanwhile he's setting up his own little fife of corruption that hides in plain site, because people are so relieved that they will go out of their way to ignore the problems with the new savior.

It's not a right or left, democrat or republican problem - it's a problem with human nature that some people are driven to take advantage of. Others try to fight it and either get destroyed or are corrupted themselves. A very few indeed can come through it unscathed. Why? Because of us, the wee little sheeples that lap up the bullshit, put our saviors on pedestals and pretend they shit gold. Then we look the other way while they fuck the righteous, destroying or corrupting.

And they always find ways to distract us, misdirect our attention. Doing just enough that's good, to keep us enamored, keep us from seeing the rot underneath. Thus how Kwame Kilpatrick could get re-elected, how Marion Barry could get re-elected, how King John Engler could get re-elected. It just goes on and on because we are just to fucking stupid to object. The goings are good for this moment, in this place for me. That makes it all right.

And momof3, it's not ultimately a lawenforcement problem. I recognize that, I really do. It's political.

I spent a lot of time talking to the cops in my neighborhood in Portland. I went to the community meetings, where we would meet with the police who patrolled our neighborhood and their bosses. I became as friendly as anyone with a few of our cops.

They become jaded because they have too many stupid laws to enforce, that too many people wanted to take advantage of. They could care less if someone wants to get completely wasted, as long as they don't hurt anyone while they're high (or sober for that matter). But that's not enough. They have to waste their time fucking with harmless drunks. They have to endanger themselves and try to keep everyone around them safe, while they bust people for selling powders that do this that and another thing. They have to fuck with people selling their sex on the streets where people are trying to live, because it's illegal for folks to set up a whorehouse, out of the way, where it won't bother anyone else.

Get rid of the war on vice and the cops can get back to dealing with people who are a little unruly, petty theft and the occasional crime of passion. It's easier not to get jaded, when you aren't so busy dealing with superfluous bullshit - all the fucking time. Its bad enough today, that a great many of the cops on the street don't really know what the law actually says about a lot of issues they're forced to deal with at a given moment.

One last thought, before I end my increasingly unhinged ranting for the day.

I use the words we and us for a very good reason. We're all complicit, all of us guilty of fostering this system that is so grievously broken - possibly inherently so. Like it or not, if they exist at all, the people who do not manage to ignore, willfully or not, the corruption in their own back yard, are exceedingly rare indeed. (sorry, eloguent English is not my forte when I get all manic)

We may well be hard wired to worship our hero's, put our saviors on pedestals - create ideals that no human could possibly achieve. We're talking about the same sort of psychology that goes into creating/accepting religions. We seem to need mythos in our lives and even those who can't accept blind faith in religion need to invest that part of their psyche into something.

It's moments like these, when bitter cold, stark reality strikes me, that I really feel the urge to "accidentally" wake up the six year old so he'll come snuggle next to me. (he likes to do that if he wakes up at night)

> Arpaio is slicker than snot on a doorknob

That just can't be an old British saying, not even Cockney... Jody's officially 'merican now.

(First assignment is to overeat, second is to express ingratitude. Good luck out there.)

DuWayne, thanks for the facts.

If you ever need a lift (spirit-wise), contact Kris Volcheck at Central Arizona Shelter Services. I met him when I had the privilege of working there, a million years ago in 1995-ish. He later started this program:

http://www.cass-az.org/dental.html

At the shelter, it was common to ask people (during the unofficial part of the intake interview) how old they were when they left home. The age given was overwhelmingly between the ages of 14-17 years old. So kids who had spent their first 14+ years being beaten/ sexually assaulted and/ or watching their mother being beaten would go on to "escape" to the streets. Having grown up observing criminal behavior, they often turned to criminal behavior to survive. Nothing like a live-in apprenticeship to set the trajectory for one's life-long learning. Many of the homeless shelter-users could only keep their low paying jobs in the hospitality industry as long as Immigration was in town. When Immigration left, they lost their jobs and returned to the homeless shelter. I think of this almost every time I go to a large hotel or a restaurant, and yet I still go. It's hard to participate in commerce here and *not* be complicit, in some way.

...I have digressed. If you contact Kris, tell him Michelle in Pittsburgh sent you. He introduced me to escargot, and was the first person in my life to so plainly, simply find himself on the planet and seek to be useful.

And thank you, again.

Honestly Michelle, I would much prefer my favorite old spiritual adviser, a Mr. J Beam this evening. I won't go there, but I am seriously questioning whether I can handle my new job.

It is pretty much a certainty that I am going to have to fire at least one guy - quite possibly another one or two of them. He deserves to be fired, he's incompetent and arrogant, convinced that he should be allowed to operate the way he always has - refusing to accept that I was hired to make things work better with the people I have, or replace them. My boss was ready to let him go before I started - I convinced him that the problem may have been the guy I replaced.

All that, and I still feel the shit for having to do it - worse for making the decision this time of year. But this is a very slow time of year and I need to have functional crews out by mid-spring, when things really get going. It's the best time to cut away the dead weight. I just have a temperament that makes it exceedingly difficult to fire people. In part because I hate causing others pain. But the real trouble is that I see it as a personal failure if I can't mold someone into the employee the company they work for needs them to be. (keeping in perspective, my first day in the office was Monday)

We'll see, he may decide to show up at the job tomorrow to explain himself. If he does he has a very slim chance. If he doesn't want to disrupt his vacation, he'll get his last paycheck on the first.

Thank you for all of the posts DuWayne and luljp.

To summarize, Arpaio is a corrupt, grandstanding asshole who also has a few good ideas.

This particular idea, while I like the theory of making prisoners accountable, may or may not be good in practice. I like the idea of making Joe accountable, too.

Another problem with Sheriff Arpaio is that he apparently treats pre-trial detainees the same way he treats convicted criminals. I know, we all love tough-on-crime policies, but is this right?

Actually LMM, that doesn't make him unique, nor is it really wrong. What else would you suggest the guards do? They have limited space, limited staff and a need to put them somewhere. They can't take the time and effort to coddle them, simply because they have yet to go to court.

You won't find a jail in the country, probably not the world where they deal with pretrial prisoners any differently.

On the subject of jails already charging people: This may just be Texas, but here, if you owe traffic tickets or hot checks or some other financial issue and have no money, you can choose to "work" your fine off in jail. One night equals so much money. If they are charging you, how could that ever happen? So I think they don't charge you here.

momof3 -

The way it worked for me in Ingham county (Lansing, MI), way back when, was fifteen dollars off my fines per day in jail. This didn't mean that I wasn't charged the forty dollars a day in holding fees, it just meant that I was free of the fine. The eventual cost when I was able to actually pay it, was six hundred dollars. So instead of just paying a two hundred thirty dollar fine, I spent two weeks in jail and paid close to three times the original fine when I wanted to get my credit straightened out.

So ultimately, it is far worse for the person who can't pay the fine. It looks better on paper, but that is only because the holding fees are completely separate from the fines and costs. And they can't arrest anyone for not paying them.

This is why I am a fan of the notion of making prisoners work. And not just the bullshit that they get away with calling work in most jurisdictions - I would like to see them earn it. I am also a fan of making them work enough that they leave jail with a little cash, so they don't have an excuse for breaking the law to get back on their feet.

Sorry Amy, there were Arpaio fans and I got a little (ok a lot) carried away.

On the upside, my guy not only showed up this morning, but I think he's starting to realize that things were going to change in a very big way before I walked into the office for the first time. Not sure yet he'll actually change, but he earned himself a reprieve.

DuWayne, I think being unpopular is the dentist's occupational hazard.

Best of luck at your new job. When you keep in mind all the people who are counting on you to make sure the job gets done, the necessity of those frank conversations gets clearer. May it get easier with practice.

I have to ask a question: What do you think a jail should be?

It's one of those basic things nobody seems to think about before they start talking about sentencing guidelines.

Prison is one of those unpleasant and dirty things people shrink from at all times. Eager to escape responsibility themselves and/or unable to imagine themselves imprisoned, people make up wild fantasies. That's why "life" doesn't always mean life in prison, why cowards routinely use the word, "detainee", why it's somehow nasty to think of shooting prisoners trying to jump the wall and why prisons have become big business.

The Florida National Guard built a tent city at NTC Orlando in eight hours. I know a fellow who spent a year in a Japanese prison, who tells an interesting story of being caned for misbehavior and a totally controlled population. These things both show that are better ways to do things than the status quo.

From Papillon: "We make no pretense at rehabilitation here. We make dangerous minds into harmless ones."

Really doing this is a tough job. How would you do it? What's your jail look like?

First my jail would pass state and federal guidelines which Arpios does not.

It would serve food that meets health and saftey standards(things like being mold free) which Arpios does not.

It would not be staffed by deputies who routinley beat, maim, and kill defendants before or after trail which Arpios does.

Dont get me wrong I have little sympathy for criminals.

But Arpio is a fucking nut job - have you read his book? He claims to have arrested Elvis and been the point man who cracked the french connection

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Connection

The man is litterally insane - I dont know how else to say it - it is not an exageration for literary effect, it is the cold hard frightening truth, the man is delusional.

He targets anyone he percives to be a threat, he attacked a federal judge at a holloween party for disagreeing with him. He set up a fake assasination atempt against himself.
Most recently he spent millions trying to solve another threat against his life involving a "consiracy" between the minuteman project leaders, a mexican drug cartel, and a local illegal immigriant activist.

I'll say it again, the man is insane. He is a danger to everyone around him and is responisble of dozens of deaths, hundereds of maimings, thousands of injuries, and HUNDEREDS of millions of dollars in damages. The 45 million already paid out is just the tip of the iceberg.

BEcause of this man maricopa county is almost uninsurable, out deductable under his reign of terror went from a few humdered thousand to FIVE MILLION.

Any case settled for less than that will no longer be covered by the governments insurance policy.

One last thing my jail wouldnt have exposed wiring and would at the very least have box fans in the 120 degree heat, the hundered bucks it would take to by ten of them would be cheaper than the wrongful death lawsuits brought on by relitives of the people who died of heat stroke

Hmm.

How do you stop inmate/inmate violence, and to what degree are you responsible for same?

How do you halt cell-phone smuggling?

What privileges, exactly, are a serial murderer entitled to?

(By the way, without water and a forced-water-intake regimen, box fans increase heat stress, not reduce it. Ask your volunteer Army.)

Justice. Hard to describe.

Yes Radwaste, there are serious problems with many jails and especially prisons. That doesn't mean that we allow some fucking lunatic to go to extremely cruel and unusual measures to remedy the problem.

I am all for making some significant and unpleasant changes. I've outlined several in this thread.

How do you stop inmate/inmate violence, and to what degree are you responsible for same?

You fucking well deal with it.

I was in jail for two weeks once, for forgetting all about a ticket. The fine and court costs were eliminated by fifteen dollars a day. I probably could have borrowed the money, but I wasn't about to ask my parents and no one else I knew could afford to loan it for as long as it would take me to pay it (though a couple of them would have anyways).

At the time I was actually becoming responsible for the first time in my life. I was building a business and had a decent future outlined. I was on the phone daily, sometimes twice a day with my partner. So in spite of keeping to myself, other than to play cards once in a while, it was known that I had a life to look forward to when my two weeks were up.

There were a lot of people in there who had nothing of the sort. For them, being out of jail wasn't much better than being in. One of those sorts really hated those of us who had something to look forward to. I was two days from getting out when he decided to try and start something with me.

I should note at this point, that if you hit someone in jail, you get another week - automatically. Doesn't matter if you're defending yourself, doesn't matter if you'll get beaten to a pulp if you don't. And there's only one guard outside the block - he isn't about to come in without backup. So if you don't defend yourself, chances are you're going to get beaten to a pulp before anyone comes in to stop it.

He decided that he was going to do whatever it took to get me to hit him. He called me names, he bumped into me repeatedly. Finally he shoved me against the wall and took a swing, while explaining he was going to beat on me until I hit him back. It was only because someone who really didn't have anything to lose came up and threw him on the floor that I didn't end up with an extra week.

It was irresponsible of me not to pay my ticket. It ended up costing me three time the cost of the initial ticket in holding fees and two weeks in jail. Guess what? I never had that problem or any other again. But are you honestly going to try and tell me that I deserved to get my ass kicked or spend an additional week in jail, along with the three hundred dollars more in holding costs? Because some tiny little person was jealous of the fact that I have a life?

Jail shouldn't be fun and the prisoners in jail should definitely be made to pay for their stay. I am all for it. Lets take away the fucking tee vees while we're at it. (actual prison, by the way, is much nicer than any county jail I've seen, and hitchhiking I saw a lot of them - albeit for a night or two mostly) Lets make sure that people that go, never want to go there again. That works for me.

But it should not be a fucking death trap. It should not be reasonable to expect people to get far worse than the sentence the judge handed down. Nor should we be putting psychotic criminals together with folks who just fucked up a little. (though honestly, the cat who saved my ass was waiting for big boy prison and I'm pretty sure it wasn't for jaywalking - he made it clear to the kid who was fucking with me that he wouldn't be terribly put out if he accidentally beat the kid to death) Make them work, make them miserable, but don't make it likely they will die or end up maimed.

I dont think you get it Radwaste the man is bat shit crazy.

He has people arrested for applauding

Guys, you're making things up about my position.

Regardless of the subject Sheriff's actions, jails have issues we have to admit exist in the first place, and then we must design the jail and public policy to deal with them.

I insist that public ignorance of this is why the Sheriff gets such a free hand, AND why building jails is an industry far more prominent and expensive in the US than it should be.

That is independent of any Arizona sheriff. He should not be a part of your answer.

Of course, if you want to talk about him, go ahead. He's apparently a good example of why granting police more power than necessary is a bad thing - something to keep in mind when considering the new President's proposed Federal police force.

Well jail, I can define. Prison, in my ideal world, would not exist. People who had fucked up to the point they needed to be put away that long would just be thinned from the herd. Why we spend so much as $1 keeping a child molester or murderer alive is beyond me.

Jail would be hot, or cold, depending on the weather outside. There would be no TV. You would work. Not a cushy "teach them a skill" job, but work. Made up work if needed (rock breaking served a purpose). Food would be rice and beans or the equivalent. You know, the sort of thing over 90% of the world lives on. There would be no commissary or ice cream night. And there'd be no sorting of people based on seriousness of crime. One reason jail made such an impression on me is I was stuck in a 5 by 10 cell with a crackhead who was very unhappily coming down. Every square inch would be video'd, to eliminate false accusations of beatings and to rightly punish people who started them. There would be no contact visits. How I'd keep guards from smuggling drugs, I don't know. That's a big problem. Make jail shitty enough, and the issue of immediately reoffending when released-needing money or no-would go away.

Time and time again I hear the same rant about 'being tough on crime.' and crap about 'bleeding hearts.'
Bullshit. A friend worked in prison and went to the shrink after the 'balloon went up' and he had fun and games that gave him PTSD.
Every institution there is is run by inmates, inhabitants, whatever. The staff are there on sufferance so that if they don't get too carried away with their authority they won't get hurt.
Or everything is on lockdown.
No in-between for shitheads.
Now take a look at this article outlining normal human reactions to being told to exercise power and authority - and with gusto !
http://www.naturalnews.com/025141.html
Anybody knowing what this article says and wanting to go ahead anyway enthusiastically isn't fit for the job. Worse, he's a danger to inmates and staff alike.