Drinking In Europe
A New York Times comments section on the blog item "Why (and How) I Drink," by Paul Clarke, had some European perspective. Vive la difference, at least in the alcohol consumption arena. The Europeans who commented were raised as I was -- offered "tastes" of alcohol by parents, with alcohol seen as no big deal; a part of life. Here are a few of their remarks:
Growing up in Italy, where the stigma on alcohol is (or was) non-existent and where drinking age kicks in just after breast feeding stops, I remember many high-school parties which ended with bottles of booze (gasp!) still sealed and untouched on the tables. There was simply no need to guzzle it up since we all came from families where alcohol was an available, normal and unremarkable part of daily life. True responsibility comes from knowledge and familiarity, and this applies to pretty much anything.
-- Paolo
Here's Ted:
I live in Europe, and it is clear that children are much better socialized with alcohol here than I was when growing up in the US. Wine is seen as an accessary to a meal, not as a means to dull one's pains or loossen one's lips. Alchohol is not the forbidden fruit that in the US drives 14 and 15 year olds to binge drink, attempting to accelerate their ascension to adulthood. Kids can legally drink beer and wine in bars from 16, and most slip in when they are as young as 14. Rarely have I come across a drunk teenager. Of course, in Switzerland, kids can't drive until they are 21, and its costs an arm and a league to get a license (that's one way to avoid the lethal mix of alcohol and cars so prevalent in the US).I often notice with envy the couple at the next table in a restaurant who order an expensive bottle of wine, drink half and leave the rest on the table when they depart the restaurant. Unfortunately, if its me, I paid for it and I'm going to get my money's worth whether I need the extra 2 glasses or not!
I think on this score, the Europeans have the Americans beat-to avoid making alcohol the forbidden fruit, available only to "adults", and letting kids sip diluted wine with meals with the family seems to work much better than prohibition (either the 1920′'s variety or the modern version) which is the guiding principle in most US households
-- Ted
Here's Carol:
I, too, grew up in Europe (Spain.) There is one aspect of the Spanish attitude on alcohol that no one else has mentioned in their descriptions of European moderation.In Spain -- at least the Spain of 1960-1975 -- there were no liquor laws. Children were taught to drink wine at the family table. If you had the money, you could buy the alcohol, regardless of age.
However, anyone boorish enough to actually get drunk was ostracized. Seriously ostracized by the society. At one of the many parties my father's job required my mother to organize, one gentleman became inebriated. He was taken home by a fellow party member. Everyone else offered profuse apologies to my mother. Everyone was ashamed that such a breach of common decency had occurred. The next day, gifts of apology came pouring in to my mother -- flowers, candies, household items.
On the other hand, abstention was accepted without comment. The flip side of the code was that those who could not "hold" their liquor should abstain. There was no shame in it.
More than any laws, social pressure changes behavior. It is not enough that we applaud the moderation approach to teaching children to drink. We must also underscore our disapproval of immoderate drinking. Not just parents, but all of us.
-- Carol
And then there's the USA:
I remember being a Protestant at a Catholic High School in a Mormon State (Utah), and it seemed the kids who at parties were on a mission to get blitzed fastest were the Mormon kids. I think it was because, as the author pointed out, they didn't have proper drinking skills modeled for them. While the rest of us just saw it as a drink, not a drug or form of rebellion. -- Dave







Which Europe is this writer talking about? I've been throughout Europe and everywhere I went the place was full of drunks. Octoberfests, soccer hooligans, rugby tournaments, the pubs, the alleys.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2213124.ece
Eric at February 8, 2009 8:15 AM
Note that in the Anglo Saxon countries, being blotto is not frowned upon. It's the Latin countries that do it right. I'm not so apprised about the Scandinavian countries.
Amy Alkon at February 8, 2009 8:31 AM
Interestingly, there have been notices going up in supermarkets in France that you must be 18 to buy "alcohol". I suppose that also includes beer. Previously, you had to be 16 to order beers in a bar or restaurant, and I am not sure if that has changed. It seems that there are problems with binge drinking in France. For example, the convenience stores around the Champs d'Elysée now must close at a certain hour to discourage public drunkenness.
Oh, and in Scandinavia, most alcohol is sold through state stores that close around 8 pm, and it is pretty much too expensive to get drunk. I will never forget the recriminations I received when I showed up in Norway without duty free. Seriously, a bottle of Jack costs (used to cost?) the equivalent of 70 bucks in Norway. Norway makes Utah look like a party zone.
I agree with your general comments, however.
liz at February 8, 2009 8:44 AM
Eric beat me to it. Obviously you left out the UK in this discussion on moderation in European alcohol consumption.
When my kids were in boarding school in Switzerland...there was plenty of drinking going on...and I don't mean the at the table with your parents sipping wine kind of drinking.
Belle at February 8, 2009 9:52 AM
I think people on either side see what they want to see. I've known plenty of spaniards that liked to drink, a lot. Maybe because everyone over there drinks, no one notices the inebriated? Hard to tell a smoker when you smoke, after all.
I also know plenty of americans who don't drink, either at all or very lightly socially. Personally I think teens are stupid enough without alcohol aiding them. Stupid, convinced of one's immortality, and drunk are a very, very bad mix.
momof3 at February 8, 2009 12:44 PM
"I'm not so apprised about the Scandinavian countries."
For two centuries at least in Scandinavia alcohol has been the BIG SIN. Matronly types tsk tsk about it, old men sneaak nips, young thugs get drunk and lie around in corners. Scandinavians have a genetic predisposition to hypoglycemia, diabetes and alchoholism, which hardly helps. Even wheat, in any form, is not the healthiest diet for them, much less alcohol.
In France the term "l'alcool" doesn't really refer to wine or beer, which are gorceries. "Alcool" refers to distilled spirits.
Jim at February 9, 2009 10:13 AM
Boarding school in Switzerland doesn't count, most Swiss kids don't go to them.
Of my family in Switzerland, I would say, by and large, none of the cousins were crazy alcoholics as teenagers. We just drank socially, a little. I don't care for it myself, but will drink when offered. (I'm a vegetarian, so I don't want to offend my hosts by not taking the meat AND not taking the drinks!)
NicoleK at February 9, 2009 11:30 AM
Leave a comment