Best of luck with the book, but you've already got some competition for the shelf space.

in my view, if a woman who does not enjoy/like/having sex, gets involved with a man who does enjoy/like/having sex, she should not hold herself out as one who has the same level of libido. I've found in my dealings with older women of the opposite sex that they had acted one way during the courting process, and then acted another way post-marriage. And why would they do it? the stigmatization to find the right guy, and get hitched, at whatever cost. If that's such a situation, I think Amy is probably right. She should intelligently gauge which she values more; sex or her marriage. Hopefully this does not happen as often as I think it does.

I think I take a different approach than what's been expressed above; I've got a rule with the significant other that IF one of us is not in the mood, that person shouldn't be required to 'give it up'. We decided this on the basis that we think just going through the emotions is more damaging to the relationship than the quick fix of sexual gratification. But it's also been agreed that if this lack of libido continues on for a long time, such an agreement would need to be changed to something more in line with what Amy is suggesting.

I think if there is one thing women should know, at least from my perspective, is that we men are not dumb, blithering idiots who demand sex, or that we can be bought off with sex. That is to say, our happiness isn't solely contingent on sex alone. I understand that this may not address what Amy is looking for because it comes from the very opposite end of this issue. Stated another way; think outside the box -- offering sex can get boring sometimes. Think of it like currency. the more there is of it, the less value it has.

Shouldn't the title of this post be "What Women Need To Know About NOT HAVING Sex With Men".

It's funny how relationships between men and women in the modern age of easy sexual access is NO SEX between people in committed relationships. It's very sick and it is really about women's psychologically need to control men.

I have Lupus and Fybro, so there are times when I REALLY don't feel like it, but I do it anyway.

I used to think that our sex life was great then I started listening to what Amy was saying. I realized that I could do more for my husband. So I did and he is very. very happy. Our marriage is so much better now. (And it wasn't bad to begin with.)

Now, when he is in the mood, I don't turn him down. If I am not capable of having intercourse, I'll do something else. Even if it's just giving him something to look at while he "helps" himself.

I don't, in anyway, feel forced or pressured into this. I do it because I LOVE him and want him to be happy. He does so much for me everyday.

It's really no big deal to toss out a quickie or to dress up in a silk something for him. It's not even a big deal to blow him. Hell, I've found that I enjoy it and I've even searched for new tricks to do. Some work, some don't, and it's FUN trying them out.

It's not a one sided effort either. Since I started this, he's doing it as well. There are times he's not in the mood and I am; He'll pleasure me anyway. He constantly strives to perform better and I'm enjoying the benefits of it.

We've become closer than ever before. I like to think we've become better people as well. I know that our entire relationship has reached a level of compatibility and intimacy I thought wasn't possible before.

What Amy is saying applies to so much more than sex too. For example, making dinner when one doesn't really feel like it, or running errands to give the other a break. There a million and one little things that can be done to make the S/O happy. :)

Thank you.

Geez, the Number One thing to know should be that if you're faking your interest now, life can be hell for you later, lady, once your spots show. No, the guy won't hit you, but you won't be looked at with any sort of admiration, nobody will do anything special for you, if you have kids your role will be nastier and the family your raise will be poisoned. I can show you all two examples of this in Brevard County, FL court records that I know personally; Mr. Right was actually Mr. Right Now in both cases.

Biologists and your own family doctor will tell you that you are a complete living organism with needs, and the extent of those needs had best be communicated or you're going to be miserable. If not now, soon.

For you are a team with your sig. other, and both of you have to perform no matter what the game is called.

What do you do if you're married with young children and your wife tells you that she doesn't like sex and will never have sex with you ever again?

It's my impression that a lot of women genuinely lose interest in sex once they're settled, and especially after having kids. It's not that they've deliberately misled their husbands, they just change.

Read the rest of the column at the link -- I've written about this before, and sometimes it's actually just a misconception (a vastly held one) about the nature of female sexual desire in a relationship.

Also, I think people who have low sexual desire (or very high-powered partners who have an easy time getting a variety of sex partners) often have arrangements or tacit deals with their partners...a sort of don't look/don't ask/don't tell thing. It's my personal belief, just based on my opinion, that that's how it probably worked with Bill and Hillary. I could be wrong, just guessing here.

I think Jack's on to something. I've been pregnant, BFing or losing the weight for 6 years now. I have little kids with very immediate demands constantly. I get yanked and pulled on physically all day. Sometimes the last thing I want on EARTH is something else poked at me. I need my body to myself sometimes. I don't WANT a man yanking at my boobs, I've got a baby that does that more than enough.

That said, it can't be forever. Although the way some men act I can understand their wives making it that long.

Best of luck with the book, but you've already got some competition for the shelf space.

Prager wrote that long after I wrote the column linked above. Read the whole thing at the link in red at the top that says "column."

Women who shut off the sex spigot are idiots. I don't care what you have to do to have sex. And come on, if you tell the husband, we need to hire a babysitter so I can give you a blowjob in peace, do you think he's going to waver for even a millisecond?

Oh, and how you're going to continue to have sex with the husband should be part of your decision-making process when you're thinking (and I'm hoping people who comment here are the sort who actually THINK about having children, instead of just fucking them out and saying "Now what?")...when you're thinking about having a second, third, or whatever child.

And thanks guys, for this, and anything more you can post. The good thing is, I've got all this covered in my outline (and past columns), but please keep it coming. It's an interesting discussion.

Thanks Amy!

Sex was great until we got married, and then it practically stopped afterwards.

She is very conservative. I can't imagine her agreeing to let me have sex elsewhere.

If he isn't hound dogging -- notice what he is looking at when out in public, and try to bring it home. Is it heels and hose, the ultra-mini, the skimpy bathing suit?

And if you run around all the time wearing sweats, a scarf in the hair, and no make up -- he'll probably drop his interest level over time.

Also -- don't constantly ask the dammed if you do/don't questions:

• Does this make me look fat?
  
• Do you like my mother?
  
• Are my tits too small?
  
• What shirt should I wear

It puts the guy in an awkward area: lie, phrase it nicely, or try and get out of it.

Some of it is insecurity and some of it we just don't give a crap.

To Not gettin' any:

Your first qu: "What do you do if you're married with young children and your wife tells you that she doesn't like sex and will never have sex with you ever again?"

Your update: "Sex was great until we got married, and then it practically stopped afterwards.

She is very conservative. I can't imagine her agreeing to let me have sex elsewhere."

How long did you date? Just wondering. And has she been tested by a doctor? What are the specifics of her not liking sex? Did you ask her if she felt the same way when you were dating? Need more information here. Let's do this by e-mail rather than here in this forum. Please e-mail me the details -- as much detail as you can, in addition to that I've asked for - and I'll respond.

"What do you do if you're married with young children and your wife tells you that she doesn't like sex and will never have sex with you ever again?"

Simple. You tell her "put out, or get out." She don't make with the sexy, kick her out and change the locks.

For the most part I'm willing to do something if he's in the mood and I'm not, and even go so far to say that I don't have to ring the bell this time. The two circumstances that are absolutely no, no, never: 1. When I'm on my period, don't even bother asking (just thank your lucky stars, sweetie that I'm one of those who has short, light periods!) and 2. when either one of us are sick with a cold or flu or step throat or anything gastrointestinal.

Other than that, I have to say I'm willing to talk about and try to compromise on most things (although I will admit sometimes it's easier to discuss it on paper--one writes it down and goes away, the other writes a response)

Biggest misconception people hit me with all the time:

The idea that because I occasionally phrase my desires in crude, basic language somehow means that the act is any less significant, intimate, or meaningful to me than to the woman who uses much more flowery language and euphemisms.

I can say as a woman that there have been men where I have turned sex down (years into the relationship-and yes, I did think they were attractive) and other men I have dated for awhile, I'd never even dream of turning down (and in some cases, they were less attractive then the former). And they weren’t “jerks” they were gentlemen…but knew what they wanted and weren’t going to pretend they didn’t.

As I was reading this post, (great post by the way) I was trying to recollect what the difference was. As far as women not "putting out", there is just something about those "real man" types for me, as oppose to the girly-types (you usually see these men holding their girlfriend's or wife's purses while sitting captive on some fluffy pink chair in Victoria's Secret). Ummm, ladies, that is what girlfriends are for, not lovers.

The men who I could never resist were the ones who would make every outing so secretly seductive (whispers of detailed events which would transpire back home that made my neck hairs stand on end) that I could think of nothing else but climbing him like a tree while frantically looking for the quickest way back to the car.

Once that gets programmed in for me, sex becomes about the most effortless task of the day... In fact, it was all I thought about when I saw them or heard their voice. With other men who just wanted to be your "girlfriend" or hold your purse - it was almost as if I was withholding just to spite them (not saying this was the right thing to do – it’s just some honest self observation on my part) - where's the RAW MALE ENERGY DAMMIT! !?

Our society seems to have a heavy push on emasculating men these days.

Just look at TV sitcoms these days where most of the "Dads" are a bunch of pansies - begging for sex from the fickle wife and made to look like some doofus by the kids - no wonder men aren’t getting any - look at the messages we are sending families and society these days!. Men need to be able to be MEN. Rhett certainly didn't take no for an answer with Scarlett (one of the best movie scenes ever-now that was a MAN! (and Scarlett wanted Ashley??? (Blech! ...Ashley was definitely a purse holder).

Maybe it’s just primal nature run awry for me...

Life is all about sex! Women, need to be sure chemistry is in place and when it is for GAWD SAKES JUST PUT OUT (or leave him and find a purse holder).

I'd rather have someone who discretely slides his hand up my leg in a low lit movie theater and whispers something naughty into my ear than a bunch of roses any day of the week! That’s all I need to know about sex with men…that there is chemistry and they want it, and aren’t afraid to act on it!

LYT - Agreed!

For what it's worth . . .

"Putting out" says it all. It was a lot of fun with a lot of women for a long time. Then I learned that women were mostly "putting out" because I could make them laugh, or to even the score with a husband, or because they didn't want to miss anything, or because they hoped to trade sex for affection, or because they wanted to see if they could control the situation, or to escape vanishing altogether into the details and obligations of their lives. Then it stopped being nearly as much fun.

On the other hand, when both of us are going at it just because we really like it and for no other reason . . . I could live on one of those for weeks.

Not gettin' any

I'd tell her, "Honey, I love you, but I plan on having a lot more sex than I am right now, and I hope you're there when I do."

Bottom line, sex is a need like any other. We can't all meet each other's needs all the time in every way...but there is a fine line between the one time "God this headache is killing me" and the "I'm never having sex again."

The blatant statement that she will never have sex shows either a total misunderstanding of male nature (perhaps correctable with a little counseling) or a total disinterest in your needs and desires. If its the latter of the two possibilities, you have no reason not to get your needs met elsewhere.

She can be conservative all she wants, hell on many issues I'm conservative. But there is a difference between calling one's self conservative, and not giving a damn about your partner, which it looks as though she doesn't.

Wow, where to begin?

First with congrats on your book coming out! I like where John placed your other book in the store too :)

Jim P.,

Beloved and I do these as jokes. I think he started it too:

Does this make me look fat?

"Yea, did it come with a forklift? You are a total 110 pound elephant." (I weigh a little more than that. He likes to knock the weight guesses down to make it funnier ;)

Do you like my mother?

"Oh yea! Think you can hookup me with her when you are on your business trip next week?"

Are my tits too small?

"Too small for who? I like ya the way I found ya. Don't go messin' with those." (actually, I found him, but no biggie ;)

What shirt should I wear

"The skin-tight black one with a zipper in front that you still won't wear in daylight."

You left off "what are you thinkin' about?"

"Your front end."

"Yea?" (big smile)

"The steering on your truck is a little sloppy. I keep forgetting to look at it."

Saw some other stuff up there, but I don't want to make a big word wall here either, so just my .02.

Find out how your partner likes to be awakened. It is a scene John put in his book too. Whoever wakes first wakes up the other the way they like. We did not start doing that right away, but a friend triggered a memory about it, so I asked. Now, whoever wakes first wakes the other how they like. I prefer soft kisses and licks across my lips. Beloved boyfriend likes kisses too and a little more (not oral, but I am not telling what it is here), so I wake him like that.

Make sure your partner knows where to touch you to arouse you. I am not always in the mood, but I made sure he knew that the small of my back and that crease where the back of my thigh meets my butt get me going when he touches me there. If he is really in the mood and I need a little help, he uses that. If he is just sort of in the mood he might not if I would rather wait.

I know how to get him ready if I am the frisky one and he isn't. We talk about these things from time to time and we still discover new things that please each other.

Amy, I am pretty sure you have mentioned a time or two ;) that all communication is not verbal or written. Communication is lots of things and couples need to pay attention to what each other is trying to convey.

Flowers! I am not really into them, but beloved was getting them for me all the time when we first started dating, not just hanging out. I finally talked to him about it and it was because he saw some in my apartment and thought I liked them. They were actually from another guy I never went out with who was going overboard and I could not just throw them out! Did not even notice they were on the table the first time I had him over. So I finally asked and we got that sorted out. I do like them sometimes and he does surprise me with them on occasion. Just right.

Um, on the having kids thing. Neither of us wants any but we like taking care of our friend's kids, our nieces and nephews, etc. and they always behave so well with us. Not sure what it is and we don't spoil them either. Boys always behave around beloved and girls always have fun with me.

If i think of anything else I will stop in and spout ;)

Yuck! I made a word wall anyway :( sorry.

Women can and do much of the time control the emotional tone in the house.

Much of the time they do this through nagging, bitching, and complaining. Women have the misconception that this is how to get what they want. Being in a bitching nagging, complaining state does not put one in a sexual state of mind.

Truly smart women use kindness, sweetness and appreciation to get what they want. This is also the right state of mind that is conducive to good sex.

Many men are also pushed away from their significant others by this frequent nagging, bitching and complaining. Having displayed the above characteristics, these women are shocked when their men are pushed into the arms of someone who treats them kindly and actually gives a shit about what they think and their feelings.

I heard a female national radio host ask a female caller one time "would you want to come home to you?" The female caller was flabbergasted. You could tell she had never even considered that.

I know, I know "blow you" dept.

It would not bother me never to get blown again. (Maybe I haven't met the right person?)

Men only want one thing dept. I think there are several truths in this. The most obvious one is that for obvious Darwinian reasons, males who concentrate on doing whatever it takes to impregnate females will propagate, so males have evolved just that behaviour.

But there's a little more to it, I think. I find that when sexual chemistry is in the air, it is very hard to think about anything else, to the extent that it sometimes becomes hard to string a coherent sentence together. (This will be right brain taking over, or something.) Only after this desire has been satisfied, do I return to being capable of ordinary human interaction. So for a time, sex is really what I am thinking of, even when I am apparently listening to whatever your pretty little head is burbling on about and grunting at all the right places.

It's not that men just want sex. It's that at certain times, in certain circumstances, men just want sex. Once satisfied, they can get back to being full human beings, and they are happy to do so. Sexual desire can be a bit of a monkey on your back - though it's one most people enjoy.

As always, sample size = 1. Good luck with the book.

I have rarely said no. I think it's counter-productive in a relationship. It's the best form of stress relief there is so I'm not sure why anyone would deny themselves or their partner. I'm a follower of the "fake it til you make it" philosophy. By the way, I don't think having small children in the house is a valid excuse for saying no. Especially if there is more than one child in the house because you obviously found time to make more. It's a slippery slope that once women start down it's difficult to climb back up. Sex isn't the most important element in a relationship but it creates the bonds of intimacy that can hold things together in rocky times.

"Oh, and how you're going to continue to have sex with the husband should be part of your decision-making process when you're thinking (and I'm hoping people who comment here are the sort who actually THINK about having children, instead of just fucking them out and saying "Now what?")...when you're thinking about having a second, third, or whatever child"

Oh, and how you're going to continue to keep your wife sane and feeling appreciated and not overwhelmed, with enough time for herself to get in the mood while you watch the kids, should be part of your decision-making process when you're thinking (...) about having a second or third or whatever child.

Just sayin' I can see where wives come from. I didn't say I hold out permanently. My DH understands that there is going to be a dry spell during and post-pregnancy. There's a biological evolutionary reason for that in protecting the moms health, just like there is for men wanting lots of sex. Can't fight nature. We do get back to normal over time. A man not understanding that probably accounts for a lot of the problems couples have. Would you want someone shoving a broomstick up your ass if you'd just pushed a cantaloupe out it? Don't think so. ANd that doesn't factor in the flat fact that hormones bottom out, making you literally have no desire at all, and you're all dry down there. It's not all women's attitudes. There are reasons.

"What do you do if you're married with young children and your wife tells you that she doesn't like sex and will never have sex with you ever again?"

Depends on how bad she will make the divorce. If you are pretty sure she will be fair and reasonable, seek a divorce where you get joint custody. Stay friends and work in partnership to raise your kids.

Assuming she will not, and you don't wish to risk losing access to your kids, have a few genuine, honest, no-recriminations conversations about it with her. Then try counseling with a non-radical therapist who understands that most healthy guys need to get laid--and frequently.

If those fail to change things--and they likely will fail--then in a few months, find a secret sex partner who will not ask you to leave your spouse. Never tell your spouse, wear condoms, don't be stupid about it, and keep your sh-t together for the next 10-15 years until the kids are old enough to handle the divorce.

"I've been pregnant, BFing or losing the weight for 6 years now. I have little kids with very immediate demands constantly. I get yanked and pulled on physically all day. Sometimes the last thing I want on EARTH is something else poked at me. I need my body to myself sometimes. I don't WANT a man yanking at my boobs, I've got a baby that does that more than enough."

If making sure your SO is sexually satisfied is not a priority right now, is it okay if your SO seeks that non-priority activity with someone else, at least until your put it back on the priority list?

My guess is no. You are not okay with that.

Too many people, especially women with young kids, often seem to want the benefits of monogamy (only me, me, me!) without providing to their partners the implicit promise of monogamy (sexual release with me, *FREQUENTLY*!). If someone doesn't provide the "with me, FREQUENTLY" part, why should they expect the "only" part?

Small point: sex is not a need. If it were, we'd die without it.

We can live without limbs, eyesight, ability to reason, or any other number of things pretty essential to a full life.

Needs?

I'm not advocating chastity, but some people seem to manage it, and would probably argue that the monastic life is a fuller life than the one the rest of us seek.

The point is, it's a many-valued scale, not just a two-valued scale, and sex seems to be somewhere close to chocolate. Is chocolate a need?

Norman,

Small point: sex is not a need. If it were, we'd die without it.

Speak for yourself!

Without sex we die as a species, even though some of us are not procreating anyway.

Now, excuse me while I debate with myself about pouncing on beloved boyfriend when he gets here, or plot to get him to pounce on me.

Air, water, food - these are physiological needs. How long can you survive without them? A few seconds without air, a few days without water, a few weeks without food. How long can you survive without sex?

I'm a wife and I'll admit I had a hard time with sex when I first got married. I was raised Catholic and really absorbed the message that desiring sex is bad, especially for women. It took me a long time to overcome viewing and experiencing sex as shameful, and I still hesitate to initiate sex. I do actually enjoy it now, though, rather than just feeling guilty about the whole thing.

I also know that my body is imperfect and that affects a man's enjoyment of sex. (Full disclosure - I am 5'5" and weigh 145 lbs - 10 lbs less than when we married, for what that's worth) I'm working on losing more weight, but sometimes I feel like we can't have really good sex until I've lost another 20 lbs.

On the purely medical side, I switched from birth control pills to an IUD after our son was born and that really helped my libido.

"sex seems to be somewhere close to chocolate"

Hmm. I don't recall a multi-year physiological process that evolution perfected over hundres of millions of years whereby my body underwent seeming extraordinary (but very ordinary, really) changes to prepare me for finding and eating chocolate.

I can get what Momof3 is saying! I felt the same way when I was pregnant and after I had my daughter.

Those last few months of pregnancy are killer. I was in so much pain, swollen, and cranky; Sex was the LAST thing on my mind.

My husband got frustrated. He went from having sex multiple times a day to ZERO! He finally just asked me to "help" him out a little and I did. @ the time, he just asked me to put on something pretty for him and sit there.

It didn't hurt me physically and what he was asking me to do didn't "gross" me out in anyway. We still do this if I'm not capable. Giving a visual aid is fun and does promote closeness. Imagine- He's coming to me for his visual needs and not some porn site. :) :) :)

The feeling that gives me, and I imagine it would give other women, is wonderful.

I don't understand these women who don't want to please their partner but expect their partner to please them 100% of the time. WTF is wrong them and WTF gives them the right to treat people that way?

Sex isn't about that. It's about give and take. You give me pleasure, I'm going to give you pleasure.

I've had lovers in the past that just used me and it hurt in more ways than one. Women, think back to that one BF who was an ass, who only used you to get off, and treated you like shit.(And we've all had them!)

Now think how you treat your S/O now. Do you see the similarities? Is this nice? Remember how it felt when it happened to you. Make changes now, because I guarantee your s/o is feeling the same way you did.

Suki and Feebie have it right. My husband and I have our own language it seems. We can talk about sex in polite company and no one is the wiser. Of course, we get a kick out of it and I LOVE it when he talks dirty to me in French. Every couple should try to find their unique thing like that.

And being a MAN and not a pansy or a complete asshole is such a turn on.
*sigh*

My husband is going to be very happy tonight. Very happy..

I also know that my body is imperfect

It pains me to hear anyone say this. What standard of perfection do you use, where did you get it, and why did you adopt it?

dear Anon 8:59...

Most husbands don't see weight changes that small in a bad way. He loves you, your body is not "imperfect". Finding a weight that you desire to have is OK, but don't punish him for it, I doubt he sees you as anything except the beautiful woman he married. If you gain 100# it's probably a different story...

Sex and chocolate - try googling for it.

The question 'Is chocolate better than sex?' shouldn't be asked unless the questions 'Who am I to have sex with?' and 'How much chocolate?' have already been answered.

- from http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A177059

OK, I'm not being *entirely* serious. But not *entirely* flippant either.

Feebie .. I liked your posting. But does your attitude carry over into a marriage? How does that type of masculinity coexist with the minutiae of everyday living?

"I have little kids with very immediate demands constantly. I get yanked and pulled on physically all day."

How did we get to this situation that parents are expected to be parents 100% of the time? In other cultures grans/aunts etc. play a much bigger role in helping raise kids. We often used to sometimes go visit gran / aunt etc. for a week or so. Can't you drop them off at the grandparents or aunts and uncles sometime? Find or make friends who also have kids, and have an arrangement where you sometimes drop off the kids at the other's places? Get a babysitter sometimes?

It's not just about sex per se, so whether or not your husband "really needs" sex is not always even the point; really, the state of your sex life is often a kind of 'proxy measure' for the state of the relationship in general. Bad sex life in many cases implies a lack of intimacy or close connection or friendship in general. Therefore a lack of making effort in that regard, is also in effect a lack of making effort at improving the quality of the 'intimate friendship' in general.

'Making more effort at the relationship' and 'making more effort at the sex life' thus go hand in hand, it's just about wanting to build a better relationship with and for your partner. If you want to do that, you'll just 'naturally' do what you can to improve the sex life anyway. If you (deep down) only really want your husband as (in effect) a wallet and handyman (or sperm donor) but not as a genuine, intimate friend / partner, then that's not a real relationship, it's an "arrangement" where you're just using him (not speaking about you specifically, but in general, i.e. you'll often find this is really the case with women who 'aren't putting out', they're often just not really interested in a *relationship* anymore, per se, just the material benefits thereof).

Thus I wonder if not doing something as simple as hiring a babysitter or dropping the kids off at the grandparents for a week, might not really just be an unconscious excuse to avoid having to confront having to make an effort for your partner.

"Men only want one thing dept. I think there are several truths in this. The most obvious one is that for obvious Darwinian reasons, males who concentrate on doing whatever it takes to impregnate females will propagate, so males have evolved just that behaviour."

True, though there is also a reasonable Darwinian argument to be made that men raised by men may be more likely to survive and propagate too, allowing also for some level of natural, evolved desire (though not as strong) to actually 'have a relationship' and 'be a parent' ... I won't go so far as to say that men just put up with those things as unnecessary evils in order to get sex.

"But there's a little more to it, I think. I find that when sexual chemistry is in the air, it is very hard to think about anything else, to the extent that it sometimes becomes hard to string a coherent sentence together."

Yup!

"(This will be right brain taking over, or something.)"

More like 'little head taking over'.

"Only after this desire has been satisfied, do I return to being capable of ordinary human interaction."

Ditto.

"So for a time, sex is really what I am thinking of"

Ditto.

"It's not that men just want sex. It's that at certain times, in certain circumstances, men just want sex. Once satisfied, they can get back to being full human beings, and they are happy to do so."

And ditto. I don't know if it's the same for females, but once the cannon is fired up and loaded, it's practically 'just gotta' be fired, barring catastrophe.

"I also know that my body is imperfect and that affects a man's enjoyment of sex. (Full disclosure - I am 5'5" and weigh 145 lbs - 10 lbs less than when we married, for what that's worth)"

Not necessarily, anon. After all, Baby Got Back.

Momof3 is making a good point, especially because she immediately defined her state as temporary with a big T.

And someone else upthread made a point that people can change as the years roll on. Yes, they can, but do we really have to be the same person all the time? Isn't it nice if your SO pulls you out of your daily self and helps you get nice and wanton now and then? You can even go out on dates again.

As for sex negative attitudes being somehow conservative, that notion would have amused my grandmother no end. It's true that when she had her first child, she was surprised to find his eyes were already open - no one talked about babies, much less preganacy in her level of society. But sex on the other hand was talked about a lot, usually in an arch, worldly-wise kind of way. So it's a question of what you are calling conservative. The lesson is you either have to be culturally comaptible with your spouse or else be ready to shift cultures, either one or both of you.

for not-gettin'-any...

you say your wife is conservative, but I doubt that is the case. Do a little experiment. Pull out the trusty family Bible, and start going through with her all the places where a wife is supposed to submit to her husband, and then ask if she thinks that applies to her. She'll be caught then. If you think in these terms, it is likely that her interest in you was to provide her with children and a living, who you are as a man is of secondary nature to that. That being said, it mightn't be a deal killer to you, but you have to look at this realistically: it will only get worse.

Ask yourself, are you the affectionate one? Does she ever kiss you for no reason, or hold your hand? When you are the affectionate one it is easy to miss when somebody is just taking those feelings from you without ever returning them. If over time you notice that she is just getting nastier this isn't going to stop... unless.

One of the posters above mentioned the difference between manly men and purse holders, and it is a trap easy to fall into. Sometimes when you give somebody everything, it is never enough. So you have to tell them no sometimes. And then put on some armor, because the firestorm will soon begin. They can make your life hell sometimes. Still it is worth it to stand on your own. You might find that suddenly she is interested again. Have you become a different guy than when she met you? There are many woman who see men as potential rather than whole in themselves. And then.. when you change to what they want, well, they don't want you anymore. So? Change only what you think is good to change, and then challenge with the rest. Sometimes you have to keep the spark alive, by not bending. THIS IS COUNTER-INTUITIVE.

On a different note, I am curious from all the women with lower interest... does it hurt or something? I understand momof3's points on this, and I don't see where that should be a problem for guys. Especially because time IS required for healing.

But after several years and the kid is in pre-school?

This is my question about "Puttin' Out"... is it that onerous? There is no pleasure involved? I can understand that a lot of guys don't know from foreplay, but they may be willing to be taught. I also can understand being tired, after all when I get home after a 12 hour day, I'm not ready to run a race either. But when it stretches out, and a week goes by and it never gets better, what exactly does that mean?

For the half of the species who is supposedly better at dealing with feeling and emotion, the lack of interest in the feelings of guys is pretty astonishing. We're not supposed to feel rejection when something is ALWAYS wrong? Do women realize that it is WORSE than being lonely when you come home to a person who won't even look up from her romance novel to notice you are home. It's worse because she represents something that you can't even dream about. With her or anyone else.

I wonder how often this is JUST about puttin' out, versus how often there just generally isn't much affection. One leads to the other. After he's been asking for a few days, and you just roll over and say "fine." that isn't going to help much either.

Acquiescence is not the same as acceptance, and it is acceptance he is looking for, IMHO. Women accept with their bodies. Men request with theirs.

To the guy whose wife won't do him... what time of day are you trying to fool around? Sometimes when I go to bed too late I'm not really in the mood, because I want to sleep. If I were you, I would make the move as soon as the kids are in bed.

Maybe she needs to be wooed. Maybe you should go on a vacation... drop the kids off somewhere for a week and relax.

To Amy... it is awesome advice, and so true... BUT... Dr. Laura already wrote this advice in a book of her own, so think about how yours will be different.

Anon, that's really silly. I'm very short and fat, and have tons of great sex, which my husband seems to enjoy a lot. Sex is fun. If you're self-concious, do it in candlelight. Everyone looks good in candlelight.

BUT... Dr. Laura already wrote this advice in a book of her own, so think about how yours will be different.

Thanks, but sex is only a part of this book, and I've been saying this stuff for years. It's sensible.

Moreover, re: kids yanking, etc., the nuclear family arrangement is part of the problem. I'm not for dropping kids off in daycare, but I think other parents are a different story. I'm for three to five families banding together and having the kids go to a different family's house every day. Kids are socialized by their peer group interaction (Judith Rich Harris's work) and if there's a parent and a helper present (assuming you'd need this for three to five families). And maybe another parent whose day it isn't stays over at the other parent's house, but this allows stay-at-home parents private time. Kids, throughout human history, have been socialized this way, and Peter Gray (Boston College) has found evidence mixed-age play is particularly good for both the younger and older child. For example, the younger child throws wildly and the older child can catch the younger child's wild throws, but throw gently enough for the younger child -- and learn that that's necessary.

I think your original request was advice from dudes to dudettes, wasn't it?
1. Enthusiasm. If you don't have it, fake it. If he's not the best lover in the world, pretend like he is. And later, tell him how to be even better.
2. Let him appreciate your body. Little slows down my love train like a woman expressing insecurity about a part I'm intent on enjoying.
3. Make some noise (also related to #1). If your not in a dorm or your parent's basement, silence is off-putting.

You really want to mess with a 'conservitive' woman - get them to justify not having sex when God OK'ed an orgy in the bible

"If making sure your SO is sexually satisfied is not a priority right now, is it okay if your SO seeks that non-priority activity with someone else, at least until your put it back on the priority list?"

I assume it would not be a priority with me were I in the hospital for chemo either. Doesn't mean he can go elsewhere. There's times in one's life that your DH's dick is not your first priority. I think I've made the temporary thing clear. Temporary can mean different things to different people, and as long as there's communication I see no problem.

Really, really, really never fake an orgasm. Even with a one-nighter, because sometimes they become more! And that's not a conversation you want to have with a mate, believe me!

Be willing to experiment.

Sometimes be the aggressor.

Don't expect him too pick up all the clues -- especially after a long day.

If he isn't doing it for you -- suggest something. There is a toy store somewhere near you, take him along. If not, you can get some toys from Amy's Mall that you can use together.

Sometimes its the subtle stuff.

I've never understood women who turn down sex regularly. I have a girlfriend who admitted she'd been doing that. She says she can't have sex if she's upset at him for any little thing, which seems to be all the time. So, I warned her she was playing with fire, but she didn't take it seriously. Then, she caught her husband on "AshleyMadison.com" - the cheating site - and I said, "Well, what did you really expect?" Men will go elsewhere if they're not getting it, especially highly sexed men.

However, the confusing part is that highly sexed men will sometimes go elsewhere anyway, just for novelty, even if you try everything to please them, but you're certainly risking an affair, if not the collapse of your entire relationship, by denying them sex.

I'm not always in the mood, but I can find other ways, like blowing him, or just tell him he doesn't have to try to get me off that night. A quickie is really no big deal.

Sex is a great stress relief, which may help prevent heart attacks, strokes, or even prostate cancer. I think if you truly love a man, you need to care as much about his sexual health as his physical health, nutrition, etc. You wouldn't refuse to give him food or water, so why sex?

That said, the best thing is to try to get genuinely in the mood more often. I know that's easier said than done when you're in momof3's situation.

Have any women here tried testerone creams or medications? Do they really help the libido?

Richard, thanks.

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but in my opinion, letting a man be himself (I happen to like a Man's man) and not ask him suppress his natural sexual instincts would only enhance a marriage - but that is a preference I hold.

Sex should be separate from the stereotypical "she does this and I the man do that". I'm not talking about that. I am talking about sex.

In my experience, men who were not afraid of having their needs met sexually were the least controlling in all other aspects of the relationship (which made me want more of it) - I found them to be more respectful, affectionate and exuded far less bravado than the men who were not.

I was engaged and broke it off because it became obvious our needs weren’t being met in the bedroom and those problems were spilling over into other areas of the relationship. He is a nice man but quixotic to a fault ("those things are not to be done with girls you marry") which made me resentful. I also noticed that other areas of the relationship became inequitable. I experienced more of the unwelcome male dominance behaviors in other areas than I cared for "I make the decisions because I am the man of the house" type BS. I'd rather show him the bedroom and keep the rest of the relationship in balance...and also because it is what is enjoyable to me. Unfortunately, that was not an option in this case.

It's a matter of perspective. I can just tell you how it is for me.

As a long– and happily–divorced guy, I have no pony in this race. But I think it's charming that there are all these media figures who are reviving the old saw –if not the heartfelt folk wisdom– that wives ought to fuck their husbands.

And the three cited here (having only glanced at the comments, I'll read 'em all closely tonight) are Jewish, and cover most of the spectrum of faith. Prager is very religious. Schlessinger used to believe a lot, and has backed off somewhat. And Amy never cared for it.

The best way to boost your libido is just to think about sex all the time. Like if you're at a meeting, and you bored, imagine what it would be like to have sex with each individual around the table. Things like that. Whenever you are bored, think about sex to entertain yourself.

Also, do sensual things like messily eat very ripe mangos naked. Or look up other aphrodisiac foods and prepare them. Even when you're alone.

Then you'll be horny, and voila, problem solved.

I have other techniques for female libido boosting but they might be a little too hippy/crunchy for this crowd.

Norman - Air, water, food - these are physiological needs. How long can you survive without them? A few seconds without air, a few days without water, a few weeks without food. How long can you survive without sex?

2 days, 3 hours, 18 seconds. My wife and I timed it. Seriously.

I suppose you could survive indefinitely. Let's ask Richard Simmons. We know he hasn't been laid.

Let's ask Richard Simmons. We know he hasn't been laid.

His boyfriend might disagree with you. ;-)

I experienced more of the unwelcome male dominance behaviors in other areas than I cared for "I make the decisions because I am the man of the house" type BS. I'd rather show him the bedroom and keep the rest of the relationship in balance...

This is precisely what I was asking you about...

But there is a paradox/contradiction here that you aren't addressing. If you want him to be a sensitive new age guy, cook and do the dishes, consult with you on finances etc. you will not be able to regard him as a "Man's Man" anymore ..

Feebie - this is what I mean: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38827

Okay somethings women should now about sex that men like. Including me.

1) Make the effort to look good.
This is not another rant that woman who are fat should loose weight. That is hard itself. We mean do the easy things. This means doing the things that make you look pretty or sexy. Use makeup, put on stockings, shave your body, get a quick hair style, slip on some sexy lingerie. Now at times we men will not notice but if we get down to the deed we will notice the absence. Sandpaper legs and racoon eyes can be a mild to major turn off. Yes it is unfair that woman have to do all these things when all men have to do is shave, slap on some deodorant, and sometimes wear a tie.

2) Initiate!. A someone else commented we men like sometimes when the woman is aggressor in sex. Make the first move. Be the gal who jumped his bones.

3) Tell Us. If we are doing something good tell us! If you want something done tell us! We can not read minds or read subtle body language moves! Also, If you are interested in sex but not quite warmed up - tell us. Heck if you want the dishes done first - TELL US!

4) We are quick to please! Use that to your advantage - a quick blow, tug, strip tease while we handle ourselves all will keep us happy. Thru at times we men do want more time to play. Also we are quick to please but once that pleasing is done we do have the tendency to turn the TV back on, drop asleep, or remember to clean out the gutters. So if you give us a quick release and you want your cookies too, you might not get them. So please do not be unhappy with us.

5) A Change once in a while!. Every sex advice book will give a thousand different variations of a change. A change just means do something different! A new sex position, role playing, place, partner(?), time, etc. The usual is nice but throwing that little change in once in a while makes for life so much better. The change may backfire at times but it is the thought that counts. We do love the Wednesday night DATE but playing hookey from work one afternoon and going to a seedy hotel for some sinning might give your man good memories for a week or two.

6) Surprise us! See number 2. Not only initiate surprise us. Call the man into the bedroom and give him a quickie. Show up to his work with a problem (you need loving). Interrupt his dinner with a blow job. This for men will be the only time in our life that we can have a porno situation.

7) Upgraded to HDTV. This means improve on the picture and sound. My GF used to be quite during sex and moved only a little during sex. it was good and fine but times has change as has she. She moans more now! And I am loving it! So start to try making sounds. I do not mean just start shouting out OH MY GOD or I AM CUMMING. We mean get into groove. If it feels good make a sound a squeek, a moan, a big gasp. This can include dirty talking. Try and make the effort. It may work it may not. But we men life it. Not only make sounds - move - squeeze, thrash, scratch, slap, . Sex is like dancing when you get into the mood and groove you dance. You may look silly but your sure as hell will look better then doing a little dance shuffle.

I hope this helps. I am no expert - wish I was!

Those are great tips, John.

And NicoleK too - yours were funny, but they probably work best if you're around hot executives. Running a trailer park, I'm surrounded mostly by toothless, shirtless old men, wrinkled by the FL sun. I think fantasizing about having sex with them all day would have the opposite effect. :)

I've found building anticipation works really well with men. I sometimes send my boyfriend a text mid-afternoon, while he's still at work, telling him how badly I want him later. That really gets him excited because he's anticipating it the rest of the day.

But I'll admit that I still feel awkward about sound - not in making any, but what to say?

Other than the "Oh My God"s or "Oh Baby!s" are there any particular phrases that have worked well with you guys? It would be helpful if we had some new ones to throw out there.

"But there is a paradox/contradiction here that you aren't addressing. If you want him to be a sensitive new age guy, cook and do the dishes, consult with you on finances etc. you will not be able to regard him as a "Man's Man" anymore .."

I don't believe that's true. A man can be sensitive and do all those things and still be a "man's man." It's more in the way he carries himself, not whether he does the dishes. To me, a "man's man" is one who is confident enough not to have to always be in control. He know he's a man, so he doesn't have to prove it. He doesn't usually cry at the drop of a hat - that is unmanly - but he can be a good listener, caring, and helpful...and all that is really sexy! A man, in his boxers, doing dishes so you don't have to is HOT!

"Other than the "Oh My God"s or "Oh Baby!s" are there any particular phrases that have worked well with you guys? It would be helpful if we had some new ones to throw out there."

Pretty much anything other than "Is it in?" works for me.

This thread is just too fun! What? It has not gotten dissed yet from Jessica's crowd over at Feministing? I guess they are too busy NOT commenting on how Miss California is being totally destroyed by the male patriarchy over her comments....

After my son was born my wife (now ex) did not have sex with me for 6 months. Anyway, I know how all these folks feel. But, guys, let me tell you, if you want to enjoy life more find someone from a latino country! My new girlfriend never says no, and she is always ready to go! I told her about how most American women withold sex from their husbands and she told me they must be crazy. In her country not only do the women love sex, they also want to please their husbands/boyfriends or they would be out the door looking for some strange!

What's so bad about that....

Just saying...

There are 3 important factors for guys to know, even if they have small dicks.

1. You have to have a good stroke and change it up....if you can't dance and you don't have rhythm...it will be more difficult for you, but a constant short choppy stroke is a coma inducer.

2. Pay attention to the girl's body...if she is moving away a little, it probably hurts. Pay attention to the different moans and figure out what they mean.

3. Use your deep voice when your getting your dick sucked, and hold her hair back.

Lovelysoul,

Try this one: Damn that's deep.

lol, kg! Luckily, I can say that one with a straight face.

I agree - an unvaried, choppy stroke is boring. You have to be flexible and willing to change positions because sometimes the one you're in just isn't working.

They say most women orgasm easier on top. I don't know because that isn't true for me, so every woman is different and you need to find out which positions and strokes work best for her.

Manual stimulation is usually good too - always nice to lend a hand. But please don't flounder about down there aimlessly, or treat our nipples like radio dials.

For me(a man) going without is like being on a diet. Basically the longer I go without the cranker I get. Eventually I am going to eat something, even if its diet food, if its offered Ill eat it. if I dont get anything for long enough I may end up cheating. I hope I have more self control then that but if its on the magnitude of 5 years without I'm honestly not sure I could hold it together. The reason I am not sure is that due to religious reasons, I do not care to detail, my betrothed and I have agreed to abstain from intercourse for a 12 months till are wedding. Six months in and add on a real diet, and pay decrease(frigging auto Industry) and I am this close -> {----} to losing it. What keeps me sane is that for now at least my SO seems to understand that without helping things along or the now more then occasional BJ, that I am going to explode. Even with this understanding I still have to coax her into it. Girls honestly even if you just let him look at you naked it helps. It may not be cake but its still desert.

Sypresis, I would really question a woman who would make you wait 12 months, if you have previously been sexually involved and she's still giving you bjs. This whole "renewed virginity" thing is ridiculous and completely self-serving for women.

You should use these 12 months to really think carefully about who you are marrying because a woman who will do this once, for "religious" reasons, will impose the same restrictions again for any other excuse, probably after kids.

If I recall correctly (it's been awhile), sex is medically forbidden for 6 - 8 weeks after childbirth. We women bleed for quite some time afterward, and it's painful. Any man should be sympathetic and willing to abstain while a woman heals. But after that time, I don't think there's a valid excuse.

Tell her as long as you are being celebate until the wedding perhaps she should rely soley on her own finaces until then as well.

If you want some finacial scriputes let me know

The celibacy is more of result of talking to our priest and not wanting to lie to a priest. We gave our word and to be honest I didn't think it would be that hard. You may think we're silly(I do), but we have our faith and we told the priest we would stop having sex* till the wedding in good faith. I must stress the we part, I walked into this mess and I am trying to see it through with my word intact.

*I said we stopped having intercourse(Verbatim) I knew cold turkey was not going to happen.

"Small point: sex is not a need. If it were, we'd die without it."

I think that's "need" as in "a man in a relationship needs sex for the relationship to work, or the relationship will die", not "a man in a relationship needs sex or he will die". As in, your husband needs sex if you want him to stay your husband for much longer. It's still correct to use the word "need".

You knosw syepris, that whole no sex before marrige thing was written down at a time when weddings didnt take a year to plan, and preists werent even needed to preform a wedding - yoou just needed witnesses from both famillies and a commitment between the bride and groom

lujlp - Don't mess with weddings it's a losing battle even with the most grounded bride. Somewhere along the lines it became a right to have a big wedding. I ask her to elope almost daily, her response is usually, 'Okay but were still doing the wedding'.

"I ask her to elope almost daily, her response is usually, 'Okay but were still doing the wedding'."
Sypresis

Dude! ELOPE already. It'll make you both happier, nobody has to lie and it's all good. Although then sometimes the family freaks out... I know someone that did it that way in Japan, because apparently girls there assume that asking her to marry means you are ready to do so immediately. The big wedding thing is secondary, but they will want it later. So you have the chance to work out the logistics...

And? If she has been helping you along with her mouth? Remember that turn about is fair play.

The one thing that is advice from dude to dudettes, that it seems common sense but maybe isn't...

Don't lay there like a sack of grain. Act like you WANT to be involved. Otherwise you seem bored, and that doesn't make me want to make it last...

SwissArmyD- I know, I keep asking she keeps up with this whole were still doing the wedding thing. As a side note she gets it whenever she wants:)

That's what I was saying Sypresis, do both. You don't have to do one or the other, since eloping is cheap. It's OK that she gets what she wants if you make a decision about it that way. Save the times when you need to say "no" for when it matters... Hopefully she will do the same.

In my opinion, the biggest problem is not the amount of sex, it's the failure to properly manage expectations. If you've led your man to think that you are an insatiable minx who wrote the book on experimental, but the reality is that every other tuesday seems a bit over the top, then you are going to have problems in your relationship.

"lujlp - Don't mess with weddings it's a losing battle even with the most grounded bride. Somewhere along the lines it became a right to have a big wedding. I ask her to elope almost daily, her response is usually, 'Okay but were still doing the wedding'."

Don't mess with the big wedding. Save the money and get a prenup that sticks...

They don't need a prenup if they're both young and starting out with no real assets. A prenup won't matter if that's the case. In most states, whatever is earned during the marriage will still be marital property - prenup or not. A prenup usually only protects assets either of them have before the marriage.

nah, Lovelysoul, in that case the prenup is more about alimony, what happens with kids and stuff. If she decides after having kids to never work again, and then things go bad, you can have to pay her alimony for the length of time you were married, regardless of what happened or why... Better to control that expectation with an agreement...

Sypresis, what the fuck?

Seriously. You are a grown man. If she is all into holding out on you, get concerned, because people who want to have sex, have sex.

Let me say that again: people who want to have sex, have sex. If your healthy, grown woman is making you wait 12 months for more sex, well, I suggest there is a strong chance she doesn't really want to have sex. Otherwise she would have sex with your, and no priest would tell her otherwise.

Your life, your choice. But if some woman pulled that on me, I'd be out of there. Out. Cutting you off even before you get married is a HUUUUUUUUUUUGE flashing red light.

I do think it is wrong for a woman to pretend to like sex with her husband to get the marriage then cut him off after. Just as I would say it is wrong for a husband to quit courting his wife after the wedding.

Imagine this conversation on February 15...

Wife: Did you know yesterday was Valentine's Day

Husband: Yes.

Wife: You didn't get me anything.

Husband: I didn't feel like it.

Wife: But one of the things I loved about you was how you genuinely seemed to love to please me on Valentine's Day. You always did wonderful things and said you loved seeing my smile after.

Husband: I was trying to get you to marry me then.

Wife: So you never really enjoyed doing those special things for me?

Husband: Oh boo hoo, you can get flowers yourself. I'm not your floral slave. Cry me a river. Geesh, be a woman (or whatever a good converse of "man up" or "be a man" is).

-------------

The above would be cruel. But it isn't weighed as severely when a wife breaks it to her husband that sex was just a ploy to get him to marry her. And if he dumps her, she gets lots of money. No incentive to keep him happy.

@Spartee: "Your life, your choice. But if some woman pulled that on me, I'd be out of there. Out"
________

Yeah, you'd be out of the house, and out of a ton of money to pay for and a new boyfriend. The courts don't make it nearly as easy as you suggest.

Swiss, you cannot determine child support or alimony in a pre-nup. That is totally up to the family court. I know, it surprised me too, and my ex and I tried to do it, but you can't. All a prenup does is detail what will happen to your assets. And, in most states, any assets or earnings acquired during marriage are joint anyway.

IHMO, one of the biggest killers of sex is excess television. Whether it's the guy zoning out over a baseball game, or the woman who falls asleep watching "Grey's Anatomy", it's partners making themselves unavaialble to each other. The difference is, when men do it, it gets commented on, but hardly anyone mentions women doing it. Neither sex has a monopoly on compulsive television watching.

One other thing, Amy: you said "How long did you date? Just wondering. And has she been tested by a doctor?". In my experience, it is impossible to get a woman to do this, because women who experience very low sex drive seldom regard it as a problem.

"Don't lay there like a sack of grain. Act like you WANT to be involved. Otherwise you seem bored, and that doesn't make me want to make it last..."

If she's lying there like a sack of grain, she doesn't want it to last. And she probably is bored.

A LOT of couples do without during the engagement. The whole "make the wedding night special" routine. I don't think she's weird, and there's really nothing to complain about if you agreed. That she's giving you BJ's is a plus.

"A LOT of couples do without during the engagement. The whole "make the wedding night special" routine. I don't think she's weird" momof3

Or, this is an indication that, as you say, she's just not interested. After you have rings on, then whatch'a gonna do? You get an expensive room-mate instead of a wife.

Lovelysoul ? perhaps it depends on the state... but since you tried it, I give's you props on that. Me? Perhaps I'll skip ever doing that marriage thing again. I can't really think of any advantage to it.

Somebody want to remind me of one?

Sypresis : Why didn't you promise to give up chocolate until you are married? Or turning left? What exactly is going on here? You want to "make sex special?" But it already is pretty special. That's probably why you singled it out rather than chocolate or turning left. Priests have a thing about sex.

What worries me is that "make the wedding night special" looks awfully like messing with someone's head, and not much more. I'd be concerned about marrying someone who would want to mess with my head. I know you agreed, but you probably thought it was a deal breaker, or a beautiful act, or something.

Priests I've known have been interesting, educated, sympathetic types. I would be interested to talk with them and hear what they have to say. But I would not have any more qualms about lying to a priest than anyone else. I would not make stupid promises just to make the priest happy. And remember, they do have their own agenda.

It seems to me that you have not been fully honest with *yourself*, I suspect because you don't really *know* yourself yet. You made a promise to the priest with your fingers crossed; getting BJs but not penetrative sex is playing the Clinton card. Who do you think you are fooling? You are trying to satisfy two masters: your fiancee and the priest. But you don't have enough control of *yourself* to be able to do this. Ideally, you would have stood your ground at the start, and said "no," because that's what your actions are saying now. You are being dishonest. If you don't think so, then imagine going back to the priest and telling him about the BJs and how they were not included in the small print. You would feel ashamed or guilty - that shows that you feel dishonest.

Don't blow this up into a mountain of guilt. As I said above, I think you don't know yourself. You are just getting married => you are young => you make mistakes. Learn from this one. Don't be afraid to admit you made a mistake; don't feel that you have to keep going down a road just because you started down it. If you think you are headed in the wrong direction, the sooner you take steps to put it right, the better for all concerned. If you leave it, you just get an unpleasant journey and a big mess at the end.

@Jack: "It's my impression that a lot of women genuinely lose interest in sex once they're settled, and especially after having kids. It's not that they've deliberately misled their husbands, they just change."
_______

I don't think it's delibarately planned, but I know why it happens. Before marriage, she is motivated to make the relationship work, so she tends more to his needs. She doesn't want to risk losing him, so she will be nice and have sex with him often. Behaving this way makes her feel more connected, so it probably does make her in the mood more. After marriage, he can't dump her without a good lawyer ruining his life, so she has recourse. She no longer has to keep him happy to keep him (or the house, kids, and his money if he does leave), so she isn't as nice and quits having sex with him. She attributes it to a low sex drive (or worse, blames him) when what really changed was her motivation to keep him happy faded.

Not universally true, but truer than most women would care to admit.

Yes, but this happens in reverse, too. I think a lot of married women start to wonder where have all the flowers have gone? Where are the candlelit dinners, the sweet nothings whispered in our ears...the attentiveness.

Women still need to be seduced, but after marriage, some husbands seem to think they no longer need to do that. Worse, they act as if they're "entitled" to sex now, like it's the wife's job or duty. And that's the least sexy dynamic to a woman.

In the interest of helping more men get laid, I have a suggestion: Don't ask. Just go for it. I'm not talking about rape. I'm saying that she may not be in the mood just thinking about it, but getting a little tactile might change her mind.

At age 45, having been divorced for six years from the wife from hell, I perceive dating and sex much differently than I did as a younger man. The gal I see now is a little younger at 42, but is extremely sexual. We live 180 miles apart, which is a good thing, because otherwise she would wear me out completely. And I hate to admit it, but she's the one with the high pressure and high paying job as an aerospace engineer. And I am the university administrator single dad. In effect, the roles are somewhat reversed. She paged me from DFW last night, arriving home from three weeks in Paris/London working on jet engine problems at Airbus, explaining some things she will be doing this weekend when she comes to visit me and my son (will definitely need a sitter). And while she was in Paris/London, I had her car inspected, paid her bills, and kept her cats at my house. I also put money in her bank account when she went overboard shopping.

According to people on this blog, maybe that makes me a purse holder. But when she gets down here this weekend wearing nothing but her new Manolo's and a smile, it won't be her purse I'm holding.

I suppose people in relationships have unique stories for what makes the relationship work. And I don't mind being the 'house husband' and doing things for her that make me appear kind of girly or p whipped, as long as the p comes around. And although I can't drop what I am doing and go with her to Europe or wherever she has to travel, she sends me great pictures reminding me to think about her.

This is in stark contrast to my marriage, wherein I was traveling the world working for Microsoft, and my wife at the time, was busy stealing my money and fucking just about everybody but me. But karma prevailed, and she's in prison, you can read the story if you've a mind too. And as shitty as that whole thing was, I don't think my current relationship would be as strong as it is had I not gone thru the ringer for many years with my ex.

For me, the current relationship works very well. YMMV.

"I don't think she's weird,..."

People who avoid regular, satisfying sex with their mates for long periods of time are not weird, but they are likely lacking in libido. Other people with higher libidinous tendencies should avoid marrying such low libido people where monogamy is part of the deal.

"...and there's really nothing to complain about if you agreed."

Bullshit. Sexual relationships are not contracts forever fixed at a particular point in time unless the other party consents. He is a grown man with options in life. Complain away, dude!

If he wants to be constructive in his complaints, he can explain that the whole "renewed virginity" vibe is not working for him. If she won't hear that, and does the "but you *promised*!" foot stamp, it is yet more good reason to reconsider marrying her. Selfish, that.

I would be really concerned about a mate who, after regularly having sex during courtship, is willing to abstain for 12 months to make a wedding "special". (And if the sex was not regular during courtship, dude, GTFOOT!)

If a mate is putting such elaborate rules on sex based on some purely arbitrary date you just happen to be getting married, what happens when that date comes and goes? The mate is willing to make a sex life totally center on some silly ceremony for a few hours months hence? Well, that ceremony ends, and then you have 50 years--50 years!--or so of marriage, with no more arbitrary dates to hold out. So, how are you two going to "make it special" then? My guess is rationing *is* the way that the mate makes sex "special".

Translation: they simply don't want sex very often.

Also, sounds to me like someone is way more focused on Her Coronation (er, wedding, sorry) than the actual, you know, relationship. Way too many people are wedding-focused, not relationship-focused.

As a purely anecdotal data point, I knew a gal who did a similar thing with her now-ex husband. The marriage lasted less than two years. So in the 3.5 years they were together, they did not have sex for 1 year during that time. The short story is they figured out after the wedding, and about 18 months of declining sex, that they really were not compatible. Methinks they may have figured that out beforehand, had sex not been held out as some sort of reward for seeing the ceremony through.

I don't get the whole "make the wedding night special" thing either. How...by coming in 10 seconds?

Of course, he's young and can probably do it 5 more times, but still, what is the priest trying to accomplish here? Their virginity is already blown (so to speak).

If the ceremony was just a month away, I could perhaps understand holding off, just to have that eager anticipation on the wedding night, but 12 months seems like cruel and unusual punishment.

nah Sterling, you're good... because you didn't marry her. Sounds like you have a good gig, actually. If you were married to her, things might well be different. But at our age, being married may well NOT be the best thing. The definitions of you as individuals are better drawn, and you know better what you want.

Importantly, you do stuff for her because you WANT to. Not because you OWE her. I think this is where the institution itself has gotten sideways in our current society. This whole conversation just points that out. If you tell two people they owe each other things, well, they may do that. But not one jot more. Wherein lies the problem with the actual relationship. It's easy to be resentful when you are checking a box, rather than doing something with feeling.

So, when you give the woman advice "Make out with your husband once in a while..." how do you impart the idea that she needs to WANT to do that? If it's a DUTY to do so, she will evetually stop wanting to. Just like the guy, with the flowers. If you stop by the grocery to get flowers because she asked you why you never get her flowers... You aren't doing it because you just want to.

This is a feeling that comes FROM you towards them. Anyone can MAKE you do things, but that isn't the same as your intention to do them. That's why when a woman cuts you off, she is telling you a WHOLE lot of things non verbally. By the same token when a guy NEVER even tries to figure out her interests, even simple ones, what is he telling her?

That's not to say what things you do or try will be accepted, seems like that is a whole other thing...

"Don't blow this up into a mountain of guilt. As I said above, I think you don't know yourself. You are just getting married => you are young => you make mistakes. Learn from this one. Don't be afraid to admit you made a mistake"

You know, going without sex for 12 months is, in the long run and the 'grand scheme of things', not that big a deal *if* you are convinced the sex life is gonna be wonderful once you get married. I can understand (because I know some very religious people) how difficult it might be to 'stand up to your priest', especially if you've also even partially bought into the idea that maybe sex before marriage is wrong. Standing up to your priest is *not* a big, important issue in the long run. However, think long term - two or three years from now, you'll be married and the priest will be irrelevant - but what *is* a big, important issue in the long run, is the question of how satisfying your sex life is going to be for the next few decades of married life to come. If (A) your girlfriend just doesn't like sex that much, for whatever reason, she might just find this whole thing a convenient 'excuse' to avoid sleeping with you until the ring is on the finger. On the other hand, if (B) she's just as horny and frustrated as you, and loves sex at least half as much, and will make you very happy in bed once you're married, then this probably isn't such a big deal. The question is, do you *know* for sure it's (B), or is there reason to suspect otherwise. If so, then this could indeed be a huge mistake, since by the sound of it sex is going to be quite important to you.

Perhaps an equally important question is: Will you make HER happy in bed?

I think, for guys, it's more straightforward. You desire her physically, or you probably wouldn't be with her, much less considering marrying her, or abstaining from sex for a year beforehand.

Speaking honestly (and from experience) on the female side, women get married for a whole lot of OTHER reasons. We marry because you're a "good provider". We marry because you're "a nice guy"...or our friends all say you're a "nice guy" and guilt us into it. We marry because you're the first guy we ever slept with, and we feel guilty about that. We marry because we don't know how to hurt your feelings by breaking up. We marry because we want babies.

And, sadly, none of these reasons mean you are really rocking our boats in bed - or ever will, no matter how many Cosmo articles you read. The chemistry just isn't there, but eventually, we'll wake up and miss it.

Men, you need to carefully assess whether a woman is "really that into you" physically before marrying her. And that is what worries me about this situation - because there's no way I could keep my hands or my vagina away from the man I'm with right now for a whole year. I want him too much. If the chemistry is truly there - and it needs to be for a long-lasting, happy union - then that seems like a promise I wouldn't make.

So, this young man needs to assess whether she really loves and desires him, or whether she just loves and desires the idea of getting married.

Mouse - I am pretty sure its B. At 6 months in we are both showing strain. Mine is far more noticeable, but my libido has always been higher(7 Days a week or More if I could) too her (1 or 2 a week). Its more of a well he asked us to do it and we said we would an neither of us wants to lie to priest. At this point I just have to wait it out. I joked about eloping earlier but we both have close families and feelings would be hurt. The point of my post was not to complain about her, we both agreed to the 12 months of "torture". It was to describe how irritable I get when the facet is off.

Sypresis... I have a much bigger question. Don't you think God knows? The Priest isn't the one to judge, even if he may think he is. I think in this you are worrying about all the wrong things. Lying to a priest? How's he going to know? God already knows. I would say you need to get to the root of the question. If it's not all that important to get this right with the person you are praying to, what difference does the priest make?

Separate of that? If your future wife likes it once or twice a week, you can halve that after you are married. Your needs are VERY different in this regard and you better address that right now, unless you want her to be your future ex-wife, who has everything you ever owned and your kids too.

I cannot stress this enough. Talk about this NOW, because you can't imagine how much worse it could be. Seriously. This is where that whole promising thing can be a blindside boot to the nuts.
As Lovelysoul mentioned, Women marry for a lot of reasons, and Men do to. People in general do not actually examine or speak those reasons, even to themselves. But if you think your life in bed is going to get better, you are totally wrong. Accomedations may be made, but if she really isn't interested? She isn't suddenly going to be.

THAT'S OK. As long as YOU know that going in. You say you'd have it everyday if you could. Are you willing to only have it 2x a month for the rest of your life? That is the truth of it.

I can't say that I have any sexual experience, but I'd like to add this regarding looks (I at least have the fortune of living in a non-muslim society and can see women's bodies to some degree).

I find some amount of flab to be hot. Sometimes I have grossed myself out by the fact that I was turned on by it. I'm not talking morbid obesity, but some extra weight on the butt, thighs, or stomach...the fleshy soft look can really get to me, even if I wouldn't say it's "beautiful"

I know for myself there's an appreciation for beauty, and there's raw lust for female flesh. As gross and cannibalistic as that sounds.
I think women understand the first (wearing makeup and dressing up) but perhaps don't quite get the second.

There's a chance I'm really in the minority, but probably not too much. Take pornstars for example, they are usually not the skinny twigs that are used to model beauty products. A lot of them have bigger butts and jiggly stomachs.

I think a woman freaking out that she "looks fat" is not only being insecure (which is unsexy) but perhaps failing to see how it can be a good thing (to a degree).

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