That's FRON-ken-shteen.

I don't hate you because you're Mexican. I hate you because you're an asshole.

Yeah, if there's one thing that drives me nuts these days, it's racial hypocrites who wear their race on their sleeves, and then complain when people judge them based on race. As for the visceral reaction to the word "Mexican" in America, it's the same thing that happens when you say the word "Somolian" in England. They don't react to the word "Mexican" in the UK because Mexico isn't their problem; it's our problem.

I've spent some time in El Paso recently. El Paso is right on the border and has a large Mexican immigrant population. I've talked to some of them. Universally, every one I've talked to thinks Mexico is every bit as screwed up as we think it is.

As for Sotomeyer, she has as much as said that she will rule based on what is best for her race and gender; Amy had the quote in a previous post. Way to build that post-racial society, Judge!

I don't mind the names. I think people get to choose their preferred pronunciation for their name. And I do think that most reporters and pundits are paid enough for the crappy way they do their job that they can spend the time to figure out how to pronounce someone's name. (The last name I was born with was picked by some immigration official and that person didn't do such a great job of it.)

On the other hand, I would ask Gaby Wood, what her beef with how people treat Mexican has anything whatsoever to do with Sotomayor, who, as we know, is Puerto Rican and not Mexican.

I think that's a relevant question because last week we discovered from *other* hispanics how racist this cartoon was (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/03/sotomayor-cartoon-in-ithe_n_211114.html) that made the same generalization that Gaby Wood just made.

In other words, the problem with listening and responding to Gaby Wood on her pet issue is how easily it leads one to offend someone else on the exact same issue.

I often think that the *modern* feminist position often comes down to women are equal to men except when women are different (because they are better).

Sotomayor represents hispanics except when she should only represent Puerto Ricans except when she needs to represent all hispanics again and indeed, any immigrant to the US except of course when it's important to point out that she is not an immigrant because she is a natural born citizen.

Too many demands that we all walk on eggs.

I need to correct this:

"I think that's a relevant question because last week we discovered from *other* hispanics how racist this cartoon was (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/03/sotomayor-cartoon-in-ithe_n_211114.html) that made the same generalization that Gaby Wood just made."

I actually heard about this not from "hispanics" but from "identity politickers" who love to point out and hype up any such issue showing what a horrible, terrible, incredibly oppressive, repressive, and racist society this is. (Usually while sipping their lattes on their way to campus.)

"Press one to read this message in Spanish. Press two to ask people who read this message in Spanish to learn English like my poor-as-fuck European peasant ancestors did, and pronto, so they could join our economy and become American.

Haha, Amy, that is good; you ought to set it as your voice-mail message!

I'm willing to cut people some slack on the language.

In Japan, US Military personnel didn't have to take the written test for driving in Japanese, and I was always given some assistance when I stopped by the bank to pay the electric bill for my apartment. When it comes to forms, I recognize name, address, and telephone number in Kanji, then I'm done...

However, you have to draw the line somewhere. You have to be a citizen to vote legally, and being a citizen requires understanding English. Ballots should be English only.

heh, La Raza would eat her for breakfast. Is she denying that it means "The Race"?

Oi! oh, wait can I say that?

MarkD, my experience in Germany was the same as yours in Japan, and for two very good reasoss. One was that I was temporarily stationed there rather than attempting to become a permanent resident. The other was that most people of a certain age were damned glad they had been allowed to retain German as their language, and were hardly going to get snarky with an American on the langugae issue.

That's not the case with Mexican immigrants, and they know it. No body pays any atention to asshats like the MECha or La Raza, they know it, and that's why they are so strident.

Back about ten years ago I covered a high school ESL class for a semester. I was amazed 1) at how much Englsih the Mexican kids already new, brand new to the country, and 2) how rabid they were on learning more. They had basically no use for Spanish (note: nmost were Indians from the southern states,a nd they had a lot of unhappy hisotry with the Spanish and the Spanish-speaking landlord class, so no pride there). People like this are not any kind of constituency for the Spanish-mongers in academia. It was parents of kids like this who voted down the bilingual ed intiative in California.

This litle Gaby twit is writing in the Guardian, so consider the source on that. besides, she is a foreigner in this country and necesarily has a superficial experience of the country. That whining about the Latina label shows that - stoooooopid ditz clearly doesn't know who started it.

"Oh, and I do hate, hate, hate when newscasters pronounce their names with a Spanish accent. And Hispanic/Latino newscasters are the only ones I hear doing it."

It's pretentious horseshit.

Nitpicking: It would actually be pronounced "Goldschtine" in German, though the whole name may be an Ellis-Islanded Americanization. Just as my grandfather's name was changed from Jozef Marto'n (accent mark over the 'o') to Joseph Martin. He also was forbidden by his parents from speaking Hungarian, in the home or out of it. That's a bit of a shame, as bilingual kids eventually end up benefiting from knowing two languages, but a monolingual family that doesn't speak the language of their adopted homeland isn't doing anyone any favors.

A Liberal Judge
(Via Ed Whelan at National review.)

Sotomayor was an assistant district attorney in 1983. She described herself as liberal when quoted in a New York Times article.

I had more problems during my first year in the office with the low-grade crimes such as shoplifting, prostitution, and minor assault cases. In large measure, in those cases you were dealing with socio-economic crimes, crimes that could be the product of the environment and of poverty.

Once I started doing felonies, it became less hard. No matter how liberal I am, I’m still outraged by crimes of violence. Regardless of whether I can sympathize with the causes that lead these individuals to do these crimes, the effects are outrageous.

At the above link, Whelan offers a directory of links to review her statements and opinions.

Ha. I am just terribly amused by the whole issue of 'England' - she doesn't experience racism because everyone's too busying getting stroppy over the Polish, who are coming into the country to perform jobs on the level of Mexicans in America. Not so much about the race/color of the skin, more about the general ill will towards foreigners lacking the language / xenophobia.

Honestly, I saw firsthand more outright racism and prejudice in the year I spent in a northern English city than I've seen in a lifetime of Southeastern America. It's just not against the same groups of people.

If you don't put a stress on the last syllable where does one put it?

I'd say it "so-to-my-OR" - that's just how it looks to me...and it can still be said without trilling the r at the end, so it still sounds Americanized.

"I'd say it "so-to-my-OR" - that's just how it looks to me...and it can still be said without trilling the r at the end, so it still sounds Americanized."

And count her blessings - you could just as well pronounce it "Sodameyer" and make her sound German.

Andrew, what's your point? That she's liberal?

If anyone thinks we should get rid of "press one for English", they're crazy. If people can't oprima número dos para espanol, call center wait times would suck much worse than they do now.

"Southeastern America"???

WTF? It's the South, dude. Capital S You ain't from around here, are ya?

To Sam,
Liberal is a catch-all which needs definition in each case. Sotomayor is a Liberal in the overall sense, and the link I gave goes to a collection of specifics that define exactly what Liberal means to her.

She has described herself as a Liberal, but has also rebuffed questions by saying that she didn't know what a Liberal was. That can be true in a very picky, philosophical way, but it avoids an answer.

The public definition of Sotomayor includes:
- The belief that "shoplifting and minor assault cases" are caused by socioeconomic status and poverty. Not very comforting to the person assaulted or the storekeeper robbed.
- That her personal racial history tells her how to interpret the law.
- That the law should be political, rewarding some groups at the expense of others.
- That "disparate impact" should be applied to invalidate any outcome that doesn't result in promotion for all groups in their proportion to "whites".

That is a bad start, and the information at the link is not flattering either.

A Liberal Judge
(Via Ed Whelan at National review.)

We had a initiative last fall in my state for stricter English requirements/proficiency rates in ESL programs. It wasn't written well and IIRC didn't pass but all the usual "its racist!" lines came out during the election.

What gets me the most though on the language issue is the hypocrisy of the PC/multiculturalism crowd in learning English for Spanish speakers. Its "very hard to learn the language for kids and could harm their overall education if pushed too hard" via immersion programs. Having grown up in California and Oregon, I spent most of my time studying Spanish as my foreign language. What did all my professors tell me? Best way to learn, is practice practice practice. What did my college prof tell me if I wanted to become truly fluent? IMMERSION IN THE LANGUAGE and CULTURE by living in a native spanish speaking country for a semester or two. Hmm, making them learn English? OPPRESSION! CULTURE MURDER! English native speaker wants to learn a new language? Go force yourself to learn by cutting off opportunities to rely on English to get by aka immersion in the language.

Sorry Amy,I always find your comments thought provoking and you have changed my mind on various subjects. Most of you comments about the whinny victim class are right on. You did say one thing that I must disagree with. The pronunciation of a person's name is their decision not anyone else's. Your name is your own personal identifier. To suggest that some one should pronounce it the way you want seems to be the height of arrogance and self absorption. I'm surprised you feel that way. Or did I misread your intentions?

I think she was refering to news casters who say everything(including their first name) in perfectly enunciated english but use an accent for their last name.

> The pronunciation of a person's
> name is their decision not
> anyone else's. Your name is
> your own personal identifier.

Naw, it's a social tool. If you want to keep it to yourself, then it's personal, and the decision is entirely yours. For all we know, Eric, pronounces his name as "Zebbnel-Klorpshck". But in the waiting room of the dentist's office, the woman calls out: "Eric?"

> To suggest that some one should
> pronounce it the way you want
> seems to be the height of
> arrogance and self absorption.

I'd say that argument works against your point. If you wanna live on your own "personal" planet, no one else will trouble you.

OTOH I always admired this guy. There's a big, big difference between having fun and being a priss.

PS- Mel G nailed it in the first comment

I cant belive I missed a /young Frankenstein joke

"Is it pronounced Frod-drick?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8o2h2bMnko

Jay, the media lets us know where they stand on this sort of thing when they persist in adding diacritical marks to any names that they view as Hispanic, regardless of how the person who has that name spells it. ESPN has infuriated several baseball players by doing this after the player in question has specifically asked them not to.

+Eric, pronounces his name as "Zebbnel-Klorpshck"+

Northeastern WASP inflection or Oklahoma panhandle inflection?

Panhandle; the c in Klorpshck is silent.

As a first generation here on my Mother's side (Argentina) and second generation on Father's side Sicilian/Bavarian...we were only allowed to speak our languages in the privacy of our OWN HOME. It was forbidden in public or when English only speakers were at the home as guests. (Ok, I lied, when my Mother wanted to tell us she wanted to rip our arms off if we kept grabbing at candy in the grocery store...then, Spanish was growled in a creepy octive in public.)

Why? Because it was eff'g rude to come to this country and not participate and assimilate into the culutre of a country which was a bazillion times better than the places they left. A country that offered my family a better chance in life and didn't murder people for their opinions.

And all of them, I mean ALL of them, were so proud to be Americans. There were no hyphenations, no whining about how hard it was to learn a new language, no "poor me"...there was just "how can I provide for my family, work hard and be an American"...and this includes two of my relatives stuck in work camps (like the Japanese) during WWII - here in the Bay Area! Racially abused minority...(barf). How insulting!

Maybe it's old school, but my family upbrining was rich with my two cultures IN THE HOME.

These pissants need to shut up and figure out how to honor their heritage privately while ALSO doing what they can to assimilate into THIS society as productive American citizens. Ungrateful bastards.

I saw a poster above comment on the benefits of being bilingual. Eh, it goes both ways. I have bad writing habits from learning two/three languages at once (and an English as a third language parent helping me with homework)... but SLOWLY they are being tackled. Soooo, if it ever looks like I am typing sentences on a treadmill...its because THATS THE WAY I TALK!!!!

Ok I have a question thats been bothering my Feebie, why did you use this website as the link for your name?

I mean we're already on the site

That should be 'bothering me'

Indeed. If I moved to, say, Lisbon, I'd do my darndest to learn Portuguese.

"PS- Mel G nailed it in the first comment"

Listen up sugar tits?

Sorry, I've been waiting like, three years to use that word again.

So if you were to move to a country with different pronunciation rules, you'd have no problem being called, say "Amm-eye Ail-coon?" for the rest of your life, instead of asking people to make the extremely small effort to pronounce it correctly? I don't think it's a big deal to ask that people use your real name. I don't like Sotomayor for lots of reasons, but I don't think the correct pronunciation of her name takes brain surgery. (By the way, who is it that decides what the proper English pronunciation of a foreign name should be? English pronunciation is not exactly consistent, phonetically or otherwise, to begin with.

Are we going to ask those with unusually spelled names to spell their names differently? Those Russian and Polish names are way too hard to spell, right? Let's take out some x's and y's. And maybe we should start by asking all the Sindies to change their names to Cindy and the Caryns to change to Karen, so that it's ever so slightly easier for us all to spell them correctly. And let's tell all the women who keep their own last names to take their husbands', so that no one is confused when they attend parent-teacher conferences. After all, our cultural norm has always been for wives to take their husbands' name, and women should conform to it. Right?

I do think that that immigrants who want to live in America should learn to speak English and adopt to American culture -- all four of my immigrant grandparents did -- or at the very least, they should not expect tax dollars to be spent adopting street signs and schools so that they never need to learn English. But asking people to put the accent on the last syllable of your name instead of the first -- how hard is that?

Your argument is really ridiculous. Try harder next time.
Amy Alkon

I agree Gail, Again look at news casters. A woman grows up in midwest, goes to journaism school on the eastern seaboard, get a job in the Phoenix market and suddnely her last name is getting pronunced with a hispanic accent.

It be one thing if the local newscaster said everything with an accent, but why does the last name have such an inflection when everything else comming ot of her mouth makes it sound like she grew up in the hamtons with a 300 ft pole up her white protostant ass?