Shrewd Move On Palin's Part
Maybe she really couldn't do the business of the state anymore, but regardless, she's got plenty of time now to prep for 2012 and, while doing it, to earn up writing a book and seizing other opportunities.
I think this will help, not hurt, her. Nobody can really contest her claim -- that she was a lame duck, no longer effective -- and she looks like a maverick for making it. And actually is one. She consistently says and does stuff that breaks the political mold -- and a few others, too. And I say that as somebody who didn't want her for vice-president, but would've voted for her for governor of Alaska.
No, I don't like all her policies -- or all of anyone's. But, it seems she was good for Alaska while it lasted.
Loved the fish joke, too, that only dead fish go with the flow. The Independent's David Usborne writes:
Some will take it as the move of a woman fed up by attacks on her character that, if anything, have picked up again eight months after her doomed partnership with the 2008 Republican nominee John McCain. The pairing of her and McCain has widely been judged a disaster. "I have never believed that I or anyone else... need a title to make a difference," she said, in a long and often disjointed address that appeared to be off the cuff. "I am not going to put Alaskans through having a lame-duck governor in office."She added that she would not be running for re-election either. "Only dead fish go with the flow," the Governor continued in an effort to explain to reporters why she was quitting. Her move means that the office of the governor will pass automatically to the state's Lieutenant Governor, Sean Parnell.
"It is my duty to always protect our great state," Ms Palin said in a separate, pre-prepared statement released by her office.
"With that in mind, my family and I determined that it is best to make a difference this summer, and I am willing to change things, so that this administration, with its positive agenda, its accomplishments, and its successful road to an incredible future, can continue without interruption and with great administrative and legislative success."
She told watching Americans that she is ready to campaign alongside other Republicans seeking office in the months ahead, hinting that she is not prepared to leave the political arena for good.
No kidding.
It's important to understand this: Lefties hate her. It's not an intellectual response. We knew this in the earliest hours of her national fame, when she acquired the nickname "Shooty McBitchface". It got personal real fast. This hatred from people on the Left is far more interesting and instructive than any affection she generates from the Right.
So when you ask them why they hate her so much, their eyes just roll around in their head and their lips twitch for words that never come. When they do find words, they'll say she never meant anything to anyone anyway. (I remember one Dem friend who said, just after the election and with a voice of thinly disguised fear, that she'd sunk McCain's campaign — when in fact she'd provided its greatest bouyancy.) But then at the end they'll add some extra little dig of unexplained sarcasm.... So, then, you'll ask them again why they hate her so much, and the loop resumes.
If you like to annoy lefties (and who doesn't?), let me recommend these talking points which can propel the cycle described above:
• Democrats are right to be afraid of her.
• She's a finer exemplar of feminist achievement than anyone on the left, including Hillary and Pelosi.
We should all keep a list like this. We're going to need it.
commentcrid@gmail.com at July 3, 2009 10:25 PM
Shrewd move? She announced on a Friday before a National Holiday that will push her announcement off the front pages.
My guess is with the folks betting she has a corruption indictment coming down the pike.
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7280
We'll see what happens....
jerry at July 3, 2009 11:08 PM
SEE WHAT I MEAN? That's exactly what I was talking about! Some people are never, ever going to give Palin a break!...
(I prefer to think she's having an affair with a busty Argentinian, m'self.)
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 3, 2009 11:28 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/07/03/shrewd_move_on.html#comment-1656953">comment from Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com]It's all lesbo porn to you!
Amy Alkon at July 3, 2009 11:38 PM
It's just a Republican thing.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 3, 2009 11:51 PM
Really? It doesn't seem like a sign of instability to abruptly quit the elected office you campaigned to fulfill halfway through it? This makes her a stronger national candidate in your eyes?
Not that it matters much -- I think those who are expecting this as the prelude to the announcement of a larger scandal are on the money:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7280
But to tell the truth, I hope she does come through this as the standard-bearer for the Republican party. If they can't see that she's not actually very smart or good at, say, governing -- then they deserve her.
franko at July 4, 2009 2:12 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/07/03/shrewd_move_on.html#comment-1656959">comment from frankoOkay, objectively, how has she been good or bad for Alaska?
Amy Alkon at July 4, 2009 2:22 AM
Just how good for Alaska is the storm of commentary following her every move?
And for comparison, consider how two-faced some are. Lautenburg is allowed to run in NJ, even though election law literally prohibits it. Michelle Obama is allowed to be attractive because she has no power and no way to get it. Bill Clinton is "the fist black President" without having anyone of the sort in his Cabinet.
And the media can't even get the details of cut/dried cases correct, but people actually think they know everything about an issue anyway.
You want to see a "lame" anything, look to the current Secretary of State. Is there any foreign leader who believes anything she says?
Sarah just cannot be allowed to exist. She has a rifle! The horror!
Radwaste at July 4, 2009 3:00 AM
Following the surprise Palin announcement, website supporters are gathering across the nation to support Sarah Palin for President in 2012 can be found online at www.palin4pres2012.com
Our the website is in danger of crashing due to the flood of readers and supporters signing up to show their interest in a Palin Candidacy. The GOP establishment had better watch out, Sarah Palin and Ron Paul combined with the power of the internet will remove the stranglehold of GOP special interests and the elites who have brought the party to its knees in defeat in the 2008 elections.
Ron at July 4, 2009 3:04 AM
We can debate Palin until the cows come home. She does have her faults. And I have no idea whether she's been net good or bad for Alaska.
But of a couple of things I am certain. Unlike Obama, Biden, Pelosi, or most of our elites, she has actually run something -- both a business and a state government. And, had Obama been subjected to half the scrutiny Palin was during the campaign instead of being worshipped by the adoring media, things might have turned out differently. In fact, had Obama and his family been subjected to the name-calling and smears that she and her family were, every race hustler out there would have had a total coniption, and it would have gotten real ugly real fast.
cpabroker at July 4, 2009 5:53 AM
Am I allowed to make a remark that not based on any type of intelligent argument? I just cannot stand Sarah Palin. Actually my skin crawls every single time she is in the news. I have the same reaction to her that many people had towards Hillary. It is just a skin crawling feeling of disgust that does not allow me to form any reasonable opinion based on fact. I just cannot stand her and I hope she now disappears into the tundra!
Kristen at July 4, 2009 6:39 AM
Kristen, I applaud your honesty, although I can't say I understand it.
On the subject of Hillary, let me admit that I dislike the woman, solely due to her lack of principles. She's a corrupt authoritarian, witness her attempt to deny Nixon counsel at the Watergate hearings through the calculated pardons of the Puerto Rican separatists by her husband.
In other words, I distrust her because of what she's done, not who she is.
MarkD at July 4, 2009 6:49 AM
"Really? It doesn't seem like a sign of instability to abruptly quit the elected office you campaigned to fulfill halfway through it? "
Actually, considering the cesspool of those that swarm around the very mention of her name (aptly illustrated above) it seems like a sign of sanity and good sense.
It also seems, and will as time unfolds be seen more as, a shrewd move in terms of any political ambitions she may have.
In a lot of ways, it is a no-lose decision. You get your life back. You get a chance to earn more and be with your family more. You can step to the side of the "Thirsting for Death Republican Party" and support and campaign for those that you chose.
vanderleun at July 4, 2009 9:16 AM
I'm pretty liberal, and I don't hate Sarah Palin at all; I think she's absolutely fascinating and I love reading about her. (The recent Vanity Fair piece is very good: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/08/sarah-palin200908) She represents a political archetype that is relatively new to democracies - that of the female leader who is both powerful and sexually attractive. I find many if not all of her positions absolutely terrifying, but she's a very interesting character and one has to accord her at least grudging respect for what she's accomplished (using the term in its loosest and most Machiavellan sense).
CB at July 4, 2009 9:25 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/07/03/shrewd_move_on.html#comment-1656994">comment from CBthe female leader who is both powerful and sexually attractive
I find her totally hot. If I were a lesbian I'd do her (although if I really were a lesbian, I would go for the butchies).
Amy Alkon at July 4, 2009 9:40 AM
I think it's a bad decision, though I like her well enough.
She didn't finish what she started.
It doesn't matter if you are a lame duck, would she bail on the presidency in year 6, because she was a lame duck? Being lame comes with the territory sometimes, and her responsibility to the people of Alaska doesn't cease for a trivial reason... I'd be sad to figure out what a good one would be. :shrug: It's her life, hope she made a good choice.
As for people with a visceral hatred, you really, REALLY need to find an articulation of your issues. Have you hated any other politician like this? In all the presidential candidates along the way, I have reasons to not like them and so forth, but those all have to do with some fact or other, that they have done or failed to do. It kills the conversation if you are trying to persuade somebody about your POV, when you say "I don't know why, I just hate her..." There is no point of departure for that.
SwissArmyD at July 4, 2009 10:51 AM
Listen, SwissD, you are absolutely correct. She troubles me in many ways and I apologize for not articulating them. I can separate a difference in politics but I cannot separate other things that maybe are none of my business in her personal life. She preaches abstinence. She opposes abortion which is her right. But I always felt that her daughter became a sacrificial lamb. Was abortion ever an option for her daughter? It should have been her choice, not one that was dictated by politics and the fact that her mother was running for VP. Her daughter was entered into a quickie engagement for appearance sake. Look at how well that turned out. Abstinence sounds great but when you rule out any other conversation or choice then I have a problem. I could care less if she hunts or says stupid things, but I always felt that her political career came before what was best for her young daughter.
Kristen at July 4, 2009 11:15 AM
Whether she's prepping or just got sick of her family and self being a target for the deranged leftists, I don't know. I still like her.
momof4 at July 4, 2009 11:30 AM
I'm LOL at Kristen's vitriolic hatred toward Sarah Palin. It's reminiscent of a British chap I once debated about Palin. He presented a number of charges about the Governor to me and I refuted, not one, not a few, but ALL of them!
For example, he said, "How could you possibly support a woman who thinks that Africa is a country?"
I did a Google search (time: less than 10 seconds) and discovered the truth about that: The accusation was made by a McCain campaign worker ... except that this person DOES NOT EXIST!!! He was invented to show precisely how false rumors can be so easily spread by small minded people who prefer to focus on their hatred and never let facts in the get way.
So even though every single one of the "bad things" about Palin were proven false, the Brit didn't relent, didn't back down, didn't apologize for making phony arguments with me.
Rock on Kristen and Happy July 4th!
Robert W. at July 4, 2009 11:41 AM
The more I think about this, the more I think this was a brilliant move on Palin's part.
She couldn’t do anything but campaign as Alaskan governor. Now she doesn’t have to campaign. She CAN however, organize and energize the political group necessary to whip the Left.
The Left is going to spin this as that she is a "quitter" "couldn't handle it" and "admitted defeat". That's bollocks, complete and total bullshit. She is one tough cookie with true grit. She took the wind out of their sales by removing the ammo, her from the Gov. office. Fuck ya!
They have no idea now that she is a free agent what she is able to do. The tide will turn. It is never some big decisive smoking gun. She is uncaged, and has the ability to set in motion a long term chain of events that destroys the Left.
All the Left has is cash (Soros and Co.) and zero virtue. Palin (despite some people's disagreements with some of her policies) has a hell of a lot of virtue, and heart and didn't sell her soul to the devil.
Just like the British crown against the colonies had more money and control, they didn't have the unbridled desire of the American colonists, Freedom. Freedom from the laws, taxes and repression of a butch of old wig wearing pastey shitheads who didn't have any busniess running their lives and taking their money.
She could destroy the Left in the Senate. And I believe that people would get to know her and see she is the real deal (not some character she conveniently puts up to make speeches, shake hands and kiss babies). And that this media assassination of her and her family was really, really, really, fucked up!
This is going to be a fun ride and I am looking forward to watching her work her magic. You betcha!
Happy Independence Day, Amy and all!!!
Feebie at July 4, 2009 11:46 AM
wind out of their SAILS.
(I got a little exicted)
Feebie at July 4, 2009 11:48 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/07/03/shrewd_move_on.html#comment-1657010">comment from Robert W.I'm LOL at Kristen's vitriolic hatred toward Sarah Palin.
I'm on deadline and working with my assistant on my column - my excuse, anyway - so I have to work all day on people's love problems. But, if anyone's interested in doing this, I'd love it if somebody would objectively lay out what she's done, good and bad. Accomplishments and negatives.
Amy Alkon at July 4, 2009 11:59 AM
> Am I allowed to make a remark
> that not based on any type of
> intelligent argument?
Goddammit, NO!! You are not allowed!
> I just cannot stand Sarah Palin.
> Actually my skin crawls every
> single time
See? See? It's all emotions, it's all visceral.
These people need to be encouraged to either [A} articulate or [B] surrender their dislike of this woman. This encouragement can be provided by electing Palin to higher office, so that they have to think about her every goddamn day.
If this hatred represented something honorable in their hearts, they'd be much better about putting it into words. It would be about policy, and not crawling skin. I don't want to trust someone else's crawling skin as the source of our policy. They're asking my to trust their gut, just like a religious believer who's just certain that God exists, and expects to be trusted without evidence.
Democracy is not supposed to be whimsical. Consider Markd's approach to Hillary:
> I distrust her because of what
> she's done, not who she is.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 4, 2009 12:07 PM
> She troubles me in many ways and I
> apologize for not articulating them
Well don't do that.
> Was abortion ever an option for her
> daughter? It should have been her
> choice, not one that was dictated
> by politics and the fact that her
> mother was running for VP.
How would we know? What makes you think that baby was about the candidacy at all, or that her options had been in any way narrowed by the family circumstances.
Listen, ever since high school, I've hated it when people do cheesy teenage applications of Freudian principle: But you are doing a LOT of projection.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 4, 2009 12:24 PM
excellent Kristen, now we have a point of departure...
So, how do you draw a conclusion about Palin's abilities on National office from her reactions in private life. Especially, does she separate her personal belief from Public Policy? This is something we could test.
second? Would you ask those same questions of a man, would you have the same reactions?
FWIW I have had a number of conversations with women about both Palin and Hilly, and they have been the harshest critics of personal family choices of both, and used that as a basis for their like or dislike. I don't think we will have a Woman Prez or VP until they are held to the same standard as the guys they run against. And NOT one whit more.
SwissArmyD at July 4, 2009 12:49 PM
Kristen she doesn't promote a policy of abstinence-only. One of the key concerns of the McCain campaign at the time of her selection was that she's on the record endorsing the availability of contraception and even the inclusion of contraceptives education as an element in public school sex-ed. Her position was more 'liberal' than McCain's.
Personally I thought that Palin's selection was a mixed bag for the Republican campaign. She seems too green to me, though I have nothing against her as a person.
Jack at July 4, 2009 1:00 PM
Aaack, Kristen you are going on a talking point that has been thoroughly refuted by actual facts. She's not abstinence-only. Not in her professional life and one assumes not in her private one. The kids admitted they used condoms intermittantly-which no one can think actually works but interestingly enough is how they are almost always used according to condom company research.
Given her age, Bristol could have had an abortion, parental approval not needed. Why do all people who hate Palin assume Bristol would have had one if only her mommy let her? Many teens respect life, all on their own.
You want to hate her, fine, but don't make up reasons.
And Bristol is hardly the first or only teen to think "Oh, I love him! I'm going to marry him!" and then change her mind.
momof4 at July 4, 2009 1:30 PM
RE: separating belief from public policy...
She is NOT for creationism being taught in place of or in addition to evolution in public schools (even though she is religious)...
Also, she does not support policies which discriminate against home schooling (where the option of creationism can be taught).
I think that's pretty fair minded.
Feebie at July 4, 2009 1:37 PM
RE: separating belief from public policy...
She is NOT for creationism being taught in place of or in addition to evolution in public schools (even though she is religious)...
Also, she does not support policies which discriminate against home schooling (where the option of creationism can be taught).
I think that's pretty fair minded.
Feebie at July 4, 2009 1:37 PM
le ops. mea culpa on the double post.
Feebie at July 4, 2009 1:38 PM
> She is NOT for creationism being
> taught...
Feebs, that's what's weird about this. There was no reason to think she was, any more than she was anti-science or anything else.
There's something about Palin that compels liberals to attach all their unpleasant daydreams to their perceptions of her. Abortions, science, whatever....
The workings of this psychological mechanism have not been explained.
I think it's her beauty (which, let's face it, will be diminishing at a rapid clip very soon).
This is sexual dementia until proven otherwise!
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 4, 2009 1:54 PM
Offtopic.
Dear Universal Health Care Zombies, especially you Canadia-obsessed ninnies:
Why should I pay for your fucking ass? Why should I pay for your fucking ass? Why should I pay for your fucking ass?
As Cosh so thoughtfully put it: "It's not like Canadian medicare is related to the risk-averseness, deference to authority, and cultural grayness that makes all the funny creative people leave, right?"
I love that boy.
Allright, fuckit, calm-down, calm down... Time to buy a bottle of wine and head up to Neverland (or Hayvenhurst, or Staples) to settle in until the Tuesday services.
See you there! Remember the handshake!
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 4, 2009 2:42 PM
Ok, Ok. I get it. Everyone here always uses completely rational arguments based only in well-researched facts. I apologized up front when I posted and said my argument would not be very articulate or based on any facts. She makes my skin crawl and there's nothing anyone could say or do to make me feel any differently about her. I also said that the things that bothered me were about her personal life which are really not my business, but they did cross over into her campaign. So I accept the slams and possibly deserve a few. Its not something I care to argue. I just do not like her.
Kristen at July 4, 2009 4:35 PM
> I apologized up front
No fair apologizing and then committing the crime. Interested blog browsers want to know: Why does this woman cause this reaction?
> and there's nothing anyone could
> say or do to make me feel any
> differently about her.
Ah, then don't bother to respond. Once you've confessed to closed-mindedness, there's no reason for anyone else to care.
> about her personal life which
> are really not my business
Huh? What the fuck do you know about her personal life? Have you two been going out for coffee on Thursdays?
> I just do not like her.
I don't believe that. I think the reason you dislike her isn't happenstance, but something very logical and sane and predictable... And probably –on your part– shameful. So I'm gonna do my gol-darndest to make sure she's in your face every day until you put it into words with a traceable accusation.
Today, Kristen, you stand for many essentially-admirable women in my life who've dropped the ball on this one. Nicely done! Do be in touch!
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 4, 2009 6:59 PM
PS- I had a crush on a Kristen once.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 4, 2009 7:02 PM
Kristen, it's not my purpose to go over this with a backhoe... it's just the question of what's it going to take? What woman WOULD you vote for? And Why. That's all.
SwissArmyD at July 4, 2009 9:00 PM
Backhoe! Backhoe!
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 4, 2009 9:04 PM
A lot of what I heard when she was running for vice president was that she didn't have enough experience IF she had to become president. Now she hasn't even finished her term and is going to (maybe) run for president? It doesn't seem sound to me.
To be completely honest, I dislike her. I feel that she overdoes the folksy charm and I dislike her husband's political activities. I do think that she could, with training, be a very formidable opponent against the Dems. I've heard a rumor about her going Independent (nothing to back it up though).
I don't like Hillary either though, I hate how she changes with each group she's with, I feel like I've never actually seen what she is for real.
Stacy at July 4, 2009 9:32 PM
Hey Crid, you're being a bully here, in a way that's over the top, even for you. You're bullying Kristen, and you're guilt of gross over generalizations of so called liberal behavior or what the people who comment here regularly state.
If you don't think so, then please find any post anywhere where I haven't been supportive of Palin, and criticized modern feminists for their need to dismiss her. (There could very well be some, but I doubt it.)
I think her move yesterday was anything but shrewd. Obama was criticized for not finishing out his term as Senator and only have two years experience. What sitting governor has ever resigned from office this far ahead of the election (without immediately announcing they are running.)? I think this will be held up, legitimately to mark her as a quitter, and as a pol with no experience running a substantially sized state.
And that's assuming there is no indictment coming down the pike.
jerry at July 4, 2009 9:44 PM
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-palin5-2009jul05,0,7018263.story
FBI says there is no indictment coming down the pike.
jerry at July 4, 2009 10:25 PM
The bullying comes naturally, but patience with generalizations has come through reflection: Some truths are general, and we needn't be afraid of them.
Furthermore, I think I've made it clear (in these comments or the other thread that I hijacked) that this is something seen from a variety of otherwise respectable leftazoid personalities. I truly believe this:
• They hate Palin
• They don't want to say why
• But they want to say freaky, barbed things about her without having to explain themselves, and
• They expect everybody else to be cool with that... If we don't actually agree, we're expected to pretend their behavior is normal or rhetorically compelling.
Now, can I tell you something about those barbs? I think they're really aggressive, and not aligned with the usual lefty posture of compassion and tranquil intent. They're condescending and presumptuous, as if the rest of us are supposed to accept these unexplicated reports from the gutbucket as trustworthy examples of political principle.
If you ask me or any of the nearby Hillary-haters on this blog why we hate her, we could each give you a full list of cites in short order. (This, which actually came across pretty late [1997], would be on my list.) We wouldn't say 'I just don't like that woman', as if it were a matter of taste. It's more important to us than that.
It's unlikely that K-girl is gonna weep salty tears over challenges from an anonymous stranger in such a modestly attended (sorry Amy, no offense intended) forum. People complain that internet commentary is a cesspool of bitterness and irresponsibility... But I've noticed that the people who complain most loudly are (A) media pros who're losing their precious stations as communication gatekeepers and/or (B) timid thinkers whose brittle systems of belief rely far too much upon the kindness of strangers.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 4, 2009 10:54 PM
Whatever Palin decides to do, since she's leaving politics, I hope she's a tremendous success and deleriously happy, just to spite the liberals' monomaniacal hatred of her. This is very strange to me. She's not vice-president, she never will be president, she's been soundly trounced in the political arena, but they can't stop talking about her.
Patrick at July 4, 2009 11:31 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/07/03/shrewd_move_on.html#comment-1657072">comment from Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com]modestly attended
Actually, word from my server company is that there was quite the crowd here today...actually slowed my server (or however you say that in technical terms). Not that I'm touchy about that sort of thing!
PS If anybody needs a GREAT server company, Nexcess.net, in Ann Arbor. They're wonderful, smart, fix things right away, and they're good ole Americans -- none of that Calcutta-pretending-to-be-Jason business and not quite getting what you're saying.
Amy Alkon at July 5, 2009 1:07 AM
Yeah, I had trouble posting here yesterday-kept getting the server busy message. Go Amy!
momof4 at July 5, 2009 7:18 AM
Thank you, Jerry, but I don't feel bullied. I do not have tea with Sarah Palin on weekends but when I say her personal life I mean what goes on with her daughter. It shouldn't be anyone's business, but her daughter was put out there as proof of the Palin's good Christian values. She not only was not going to have an abortion, she was going to marry the father of her child. And yes, at 17, the kid probably was in her own little happily ever fantasy, but what responsible parent would encourage it and gain from it. I could be wrong, but it is my opinion that Bristol's options were very limited due to her mother's position. I will admit that I have not researched Palin enough to know what she has done or not done as governor. I did not like her answers when she was interviewed by Couric. I did not like her repsonse to that interview. I thought her appearance on SNL was a move that was made to gain popularity but instead backfired and made her look more ridiculous. So Crid...I'll leave out the apology this time and you can say I dropped the ball, but she makes my skin crawl for reasons that I cannot put into an intelligent argument. And, Crid, now that you put me in my place so well, I have a crush on you!
Kristen at July 5, 2009 7:52 AM
Fuck! I defend you and you have a crush on Crid?
Crid, I see the people from the left and the right have equally stupid talking points, equally able to give cites, and equally able to bully. I often, but not always, see you as too smart for that trap.
Regardless, as I said, I doubt I've ever dismissed Palin in these forums and yet you eagerly went all gizmo ca ca.
(Linking to Lileks won't help you, I actually got Lileks to admit in a FARK forum that his behavior toward Salam Pax was egregious bullshit. Of course, it took thousands of Iraqi and American war dead for that asshole to figure out maybe he should've been able to listen to others.)
jerry at July 5, 2009 9:12 AM
Kristen, try it this way:
Palin's family story publicly challenged many of the most fundamental "conservative" and "Christian" values - and she not only got away with it, she got embraced.
Which shows either that left-winger have won the moral battle in America - or that Christians and conservatives have a broader, more forgiving view of human nature than you/liberals may be willing to admit.
You're talking as if a pregnant unwed teenager was some sort of banner of triumph in the fundie-Christian world, that Palin brandished at the convention to great approval. Could you please explain exactly when that change happened - ya know, from packing "fallen" girls away to hospices and putting the kids up for adoption?
The fact is that it's still a shameful result. But one palliated by Christian charity.
Palin is accepted and applauded by Christians and conservatives because of the how she's handling it - like a real person, with an emphasis on personal responsibility. Whether or not they marry, it's clear the Palins expect both young mom AND pop to take responsibility for their actions.
Rather than, say, the US taxpayer.
Or do you really think Christian right-to-lifers applaud ANY pregnancy, in any circumstance?
Ben-David at July 5, 2009 9:34 AM
> I have a crush
Don't toy with me.
> I defend you and you have a crush
Jer, she's jus' fuckin' wit us.
> I doubt I've ever dismissed Palin
Who said you had?
> I actually got Lileks to admit
> in a FARK forum that his behavior
> toward Salam Pax was egregious
> bullshit
It would be a surprise if that were true, but irrelevant anyway. I think it's OK to say some things in general words without listing every imaginable exception each time. What do you think?
———
I tried to present a psychographic insight about the Palin grandchild here. I didn't say it very well, but I said the same thing at least twice, so therefore it should be at least a little more convincing. Because that's how it works, y'know.
––
• Palin-haters should say why
• Palin-haters should say why
• Palin-haters should say why
• Palin-haters should say why
• Palin-haters should say why
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 5, 2009 2:09 PM
I'd really like both sides to list the actual REASONS they like or dislike her, based on what she has or hasn't done.
Amy Alkon at July 5, 2009 2:17 PM
Fair enough, but when we tried last autumn, you weren't listening. And (have I said this enough times?), the goofy psychic energy's coming from the left— They hate her more than the right loves her. I don't understand why, and I want to be able to put it in a sentence. So for now, our task is to summon as much of that irrational resentment as possible... Get it out in the open, where it can ruin cocktail parties, test friendships, and strain marriages... No disinfectant like sunshine, y'know?
Maybe the death of Michael Jackson left a cosmo-karmic Gap of Celestial Weirdness on our planet, and Palin's resignation is her promise to fill that void.
Even if the rumors of indictment are wrong, consider these letters to the editor. Maybe she seems strange to people because without a teleprompter, she comes off like an actual human being, and people don't know how to deal. They're used to pandering by Obamazoid anchorman-robot types.
Anyway, it's gonna get weirder.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 5, 2009 2:52 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/07/03/shrewd_move_on.html#comment-1657121">comment from Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com]Fair enough, but when we tried last autumn, you weren't listening.
Sure I was, and I saw her as good governor material then, but not VP material. And I likewise felt that about Obama and the presidency.
Tell me why she is/was good for Alaska and how she wasn't.
Tell me what's great about her and what's not.
Leave the emotion out of it.
And yes, she seems like the most real person in politics these days.
Amy Alkon at July 5, 2009 3:09 PM
OK - why I like Sarah Palin (factual, in no particular order):
1. She's a non-politician, a citizen who had a very nice life of her own, but stood up and got involved in public affairs.
2. She largely achieved what she promised, and has looked after the interests of the Alaska.
3. Her ability to clean up Alaskan oil politics while simultaneously pursuing related projects and perks from Washington indicates that she's a pragmatic, flexible leader rather than a rigid, doctrinaire idealist.
4. Her executive decisions - especially those cited above on science and sex education - show her to be pragmatic and a grown-up who realizes the limits, checks, and balances that are part of America and guarantee freedom to individual Americans.
5. She doesn't use a teleprompter - one of a host of personal traits/habits that underscore how much of a real person she is compared to career politicians. And she has brought this real person perspective and character in her executive conduct and decision-making process.
6. Her church, political, and social affiliations are mainstream, and devoid of such grotesques as "Reverend" Wright and the "community organizers".
7. She is a freethinker - neither raised in nor co-opted by the academic, east-coast intellectual elites.
I still remember her struggling to make her point that we should look at the *evidence* for global warming, while that uffish, stuck-up journalist dismissed her as a hayseed for not accepting the prevailing PC doctrine.
Ben-David at July 5, 2009 3:15 PM
Adding to BD's list:
8. She's a working-class woman whose opportunities didn't come from marrying wealth (Pelosi) or power (Hillary). She the best example of feminism in political life. She and her husband achieved it all through work... Genuine small business, not wordsmithery (see #7) or arbitrage.
9. More later. Nice list, BD
9a. She's a stone fox... She can run in pantyhose if she wants to... I'll catch up anyway.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 5, 2009 4:18 PM
1. She gave up her personal chef, and sold AK Gov's private plane. She put her money where her mouth was. She is SO not pretentious...I just love that.
2. When she became Gov of AK she took $260+ million off the budget in waste spending.
3. She is for small government, lowering taxes (She was a small business owner before becoming mayor of Wasilla). So, she GETS us.
4. Did I say Pipeline? http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=329698559684271
5. And because she wants to fight for "us"... http://www.gov.state.ak.us/pdf/GovPalin_Happy4tAK-Letter.pdf
I just don't get why people hate her (disagree with her, ya, but hate her...HER? WHY?).
I have a friend (or maybe had, I’m still horrified since I last spoke to her about Palin) who absolutely detested Sarah. I ask her why? She was literally stammering through her clinched jaw "Bbeecaaauuseee...she fucking bugs me so bad, with that folksy bullshit talk of hers and she is a such a dumb bitch...I can't fucking stand her...every time I see her I want to rip off her fucking face".
Seriously. It was creepy. And the thing was, if Sarah had been her next door neighbor…My friend would have NOTHING but wonderful things to say about her. I’ve known this gal since I was two years old…and I was SHOCKED as shit with her response. Gave me the huzzz.
Feebie at July 5, 2009 8:04 PM
As Mayor of Wasilla and Governor of Alaska, she kept her promises. She cut property taxes, improved roads, increased funding for the police department,and stayed in touch with her constituents. There's also that touchy little issue that came up regarding her trying to get her former brother-in-law fired, but I don't know the end result of that. She is not polished like many of the politicians and much of her appeal is that she is real which is very refreshing. I believe she entered politics with honorable intentions for her state. There are many male politicians that I disagree with yet they do not evoke the same reaction or feelings from me which is why I stated from the beginning that I have trouble articulating this one. I think that it does come down to my perception of what happened with her daughter. She should be a positive role model. She seemed to have struck a good balance of having a career and remaining an involved parent. I felt that she dropped the ball with Bristol and I cannot separate my emotion on that one. I admit its an unfair standard because most men have their careers and their parenting is not scrutinized in the same way, but as a woman, my kids always come first. There is no way that my daughter at 17 would be getting pushed into a marriage because she was pregnant because it would benefit my career. And nobody will ever convince me that those kids were not pressured to get married or that had McCain won the election that they would be married right now instead of going on competing talk shows with stories of their break-up. So real? Yes. I don't expect my elected officials to be perfect or not have real issues. Out of fairness, her daughter deserved more privacy and protection from the media glare, but that is an unfortunate price of politics. I will give Sarah Palin the benefit of the doubt because she is not polished and say that maybe she was naive to not realize the scrutiny she would be under by becoming the first female candidate for VP for the Republican Party. Maybe she never had a chance.
Kristen at July 5, 2009 8:18 PM
Kristen: Never say never. (Grinz)
And this is a nice piece from the WAPost:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/06/liberal-media-trio-tears-down-worthy-palin/?feat=home_headlines
Feebie at July 5, 2009 8:22 PM
"There's also that touchy little issue that came up regarding her trying to get her former brother-in-law fired, but I don't know the end result of that."
Nada. She was cleared. Dude drank on the job, threatened to kill some of Palin's family members, filed a bogus workers' comp claim and tazed his 9 year old son. I don't think it's a stretch to assume all things being equal, he would should have been fired long before he actually was -- no ethics violations.
Feebie at July 5, 2009 8:33 PM
"There is no way that my daughter at 17 would be getting pushed into a marriage because she was pregnant because it would benefit my career. And nobody will ever convince me that those kids were not pressured to get married or that had McCain won the election that they would be married right now instead of going on competing talk shows with stories of their break-up. "
Pushed into abortion A-OK though? It really seems to irk you that she had her kid, and considered marrying the father. Perhaps, IF they were pushed to marry, it was maybe because 2-parent homes are so, so ,so much better for kids? Maybe, once one has made life, then what's best for THAT life needs to come before what's "best" for yours? I know, I know, the cult of personal fulfillment at all costs leftists can't really grasp that.
momof4 at July 5, 2009 8:47 PM
Feebie:
They hate because they fear.
The one thing the political class can not have is someone who seeks to disempower them. Sarah Palin is a threat because she intends precisely that.
Because she threatens to upturn the gravy train, she must be destroyed.
It really is just that simple. This pattern has repeated itself numerous times. Remember Newt? After he left, he got wise, and stopped trying to shrink government. He went native. And he's no longer any value to anyone. Bonior and Gephardt won.
Right now, the left thinks they won. They got her out of power with the same tactic of repeatedly filing frivolous ethics complaints.
The joke's on them though, because Citizen Palin has one legal remedy that Governor Palin did not. She can now legally be the victim of slander and libel.
Watch the left become even more unhinged as she throws down the gloves.
brian at July 5, 2009 9:47 PM
Aw goddamit, Kristen! You did it again!
> no way that my daughter at 17
> would be getting pushed into a
> marriage because she was
> pregnant because it would
> benefit my career.
Is there any any any reason to believe that that's how it went down?... Other than that it answers your own very personal need for comprehensible narrative?
I seriously need to know: Does your very specific scenario of what happened so privately in that family –supported by no reporting (or even gossip) that I've heard of– perhaps echo some tragedy in your own life and/or family? How did you come up with that, the part about Palin pushing her daughter into marriage after precipitating the crisis by ignoring her?
You've essentially scripted the family dinners where the bad news came down and was responded to. How? How did you do that?
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 5, 2009 9:51 PM
Yes, I am being an asshole... But that doesn't mean I'm wrong!
Let's put it this way. If someone had told you, in about June of 1997, that the reason Bill Clinton was such a horndog/predator was because his wife was a cold, withholding, sexless policy-bot with a heart beating only for ambition, you'd have said that was stupid talk, right? It's a silly theory. It's simplistic and cartoonish and it blames the wrong member of the family for things that went wrong.
This is like that.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 2:02 AM
Oh, Crid. There was no tragedy. Like many other people I grew up in a dysfunctional family. Sex was not discussed other than to be told that good girls didn't have it. We put a good face on everything and appeared to be the perfect family with the white picket fence when we were anything but. So maybe that does have something to do with the conclusions I draw. I have come a long, healthy, way from that upbringing but can still recognize similiarities when I see it. And again, I can be completely wrong, but I don't think that I am. For the record, I don't think you're an asshole and I appreciate the eggshell dance you are making me do for this argument. I usually can separate my emotion from fact, but have a great deal of trouble in this instance. So now that you have begun to analyze me, what did my Sarah Palin dreams mean last night? And how much do you charge by the hour?
Kristen at July 6, 2009 6:40 AM
Democrats should be afraid of Palin, as she could very well tap into the economic and class resentments of the working class in flyover country if the economy is still stuggling in 2012 (this is a real possibility). Palin does have charisma; I'm surprised that even some educated people find her appealing.
I think that this would be absolutely terrible for the country, because by all accounts, Palin has a real problem with taking everything personally. She has used the power of the governorship to punish people for personal reasons, and spent state resources to transport her kids.
She also only trusts a small cadre of Alaskan insiders. Todd Palin may be a great dude but he'd be out of his depth advising a president on how to manage problems Af-Pak or similar. Her parochialism would be a grave problem in dealing with other nations.
Personally, I've seen nothing from her that indicates she is really interested in learning about the world. Her ignorance of basic issues as displayed in her trainwreck with Couric was mind-boggling. Heck, even Jonah Goldberg recently acknowledged that she can only spout bumper sticker platitudes on any issues other than those she learned in Alaska.
Palin has a real problem with lying, even when she doesn't need to and about trivial issues. Sullivan has documented this extensively.
Palin also appears to be poor parent. As far as I know, neither of her two older children graduated high school. Her son was reputed to have drug problems. Her daughter had a child at 17. Neither is college bound any time soon. This suggests to me that she and Todd were not on the ball in taking care of their kids.
Still, anyone who can move a crowd like she does is a force, and her conspicuous fundamentalism and tendency to say F-U to the elitists both in her party is going to appeal to a lot of Republican primary voters. Whether she could ever cross over and be credible with the moderates she'd need to win the election is a different question. I think it's unlikely right now. But who knows how things will look in 2012.
Cheezburg at July 6, 2009 8:01 AM
> no way that my daughter at 17
> would be getting pushed into a
> marriage because she was
> pregnant because it would
> benefit my career.
Crid: Is there any any any reason to believe that that's how it went down?...
Sure there is, Crid. It makes perfect, humdrum sense, that's why.
I agree Palin is a force to be reckoned with, as Cheezburg says. I can see she has enormous emotive appeal.
On the other hand, I've tried hard to think like a Republican, to understand why anyone could honestly interpret her sudden resignation as smart, honorable, good for that state or anything BUT a (wretchedly and) personally self-serving move. I have failed.
Jody Tresidder at July 6, 2009 8:39 AM
Cheezburg:
How about offering up "specifics"?
Not one specific. Typical. Her son had drug "problems"? Can you site your sources? Where did you hear that? Bristol IS going to community college... Where are you getting your information from?
Couric to Palin: "Quick, name 5 court opinions that cited Lucy v. Ziemer in the last twenty years....ready set go...." Couric to Obama: "What does it feel like to be You"?
You should read Paglia's take on Couric by the way. Couric is "By far the stupidest..."
Sullivan, wasn't that the guy who kept on and on with Trig being Bristol's baby? Even when it was proven to be impossible, he kept on like a deranged Hyena? Sullivan had then posted an analysis of hand positioning in a picture with Bristol holding Trig – I am still unclear to this day what the point of that was? Kooky, really, really, kooky.
But gosh darnit, Cheez. You tried.
Feebie at July 6, 2009 8:45 AM
I'll provide links later. Working now. I might be wrong about Bristol, though being a 17 year old mom and community college student is hardly auspicious circmstances for a governor's daughter. But you can verify most of what I wrote quickly and easily if you're feeling impatient and can work the Googles.
Cheezburg at July 6, 2009 9:33 AM
Brian - Interesting thought on Palin's ability to now sue for libel/slander; but I suggest that Governor or not, she is now inalterably a "public figure" and therefore still fair game.
Mr. Teflon at July 6, 2009 11:51 AM
First comes this:
> There was no tragedy.
Then comes this:
> [A whole bunch of stuff about
> how yes, there was a trajedy,
> after which wholly private events
> in the lives of distant personalities
> –unseen by others– were thereby made
> plainly distinguishable by you.]
You just know! You just do... This isn't an opinion, its an afternoon soap opera with no sponsors! You're sharing an opinion based on nuthin'. Nada. Nada Contata. Nadia Comaneci. It isn't a political appraisal... It's not even a personal appraisal. It is, for you and you alone, an irresistibly fulfilling dramatic narrative.
On "As the World Turns", that manipulative Queen Bitch Nikki is carrying Dr. Rex Dexler's love child. But it was just a clumsy flirtation at the New Years' party! Everyone knows that, OK??? He doesn't love her! He doesn't. It was just that they'd just happened to pass each other in the foyer a few minutes before midnight... He'd had a few drinks, so his lantern jaw was swinging around a little bit more than usual. And she had her hair up and she was wearing that dress, the one cut down the middle where you can kinda see her labia majora. So when the power went out because of the snowstorm....
(I know all about this stuff from having worked on ABC's Hollwood Prospect lot years ago. On breaks, I used sneak onto the General Hospital stage and steal hors d'oeuvres from their craft service table. Those people were shooting that shit 17 hours a day. I had manly feelings for Emma Samms and her rack... This was the early nineties, and the mullet was mostly gone by that point.)
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 12:17 PM
> she could very well tap into the
> economic and class resentments
> of the working class in flyover
> country if the economy is still
> stuggling in 2012
You make it sound like -
• that's a bad thing
• like "economic and class resentments" could be distinguished in a time of such universal government incompetence
• like there's some reason to think the working class might not be a respectable pool of wisdom for our nation to follow
• like 'fly-over country' is a worthwhile figure of speech for anyone but a coked-out sitcom star in the 1970's
> I'm surprised that even some
> educated people find her
> appealing.
Christ, you're a sniggering little fuck. You are so certain that brains are where the action is on this planet, and that you're the one who has them when other people don't; evidence for both propositions. The transparency of your fearful distance-making from common people is nonetheless irrelevent: Rest assured, they want nothing to do with you anyway. You are just not a very nice man.
> by all accounts, Palin has a
> real problem with taking
> everything personally.
All accounts? All of 'em? Naw.
> It makes perfect, humdrum
> sense, that's why.
In other words, published author, you can't put it into words, either.
Hmmmm... Why do you suppose that is?
It's not emotional appeal, it's demonstrative, principled appeal.
> and community college student is
> hardly auspicious circumstances
There he goes again! He edjumication will protect him!
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 12:22 PM
Whoops...
Scant evidence...
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 12:23 PM
Crid,
Simmer down!
There's no projection here.
'Crazy in love kids jumping the gun with baby making & settling down together to make the best new life together by planning marriage' was the public spin on the situation. That idealistic spin served Palin well at the time.
That's all, really!
Jody Tresidder at July 6, 2009 1:04 PM
grrr... grumble....
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 1:25 PM
Crid,
Genuinely curious - this "demonstrative, principled appeal" of which you speak.
Was it delectably detectable to your ears during Palin's responses during the infamous prank radio show call? (I've checked best I can whether this prank was itself a hoax - but it seems not.)
The transcript is at: http://tinyurl.com/lw8ndt
Jody Tresidder at July 6, 2009 1:41 PM
"Delectably detectable"? During a morning drive radio prank?
Well, to me, it's very similar to that moment where Bill Clinton was being blown by a profoundly subordinate woman (not his wife; half his age) while on the phone with Congress to discuss sending troops to fight in Europe.
See what I mean? No?
I guess the point is, we can judge these people by whatever moment we like. If you wanna assess this woman's appeal by way of Booger and the Nudge's Morning Zoo on Hot FM 106.7, have at it.
I'd bet most people didn't form their opinions in that moment, and that those who did had pretty much set their minds to taking her down a peg or two (or ten thousand) anyway.
You are, essentially, begging the question. No, I didn't follow the link. Was it funny?
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 2:13 PM
>>I guess the point is, we can judge these people by whatever moment we like. If you wanna assess this woman's appeal by way of Booger and the Nudge's Morning Zoo on Hot FM 106.7, have at it.
Fair or not, Crid, we had remarkably fewer than usual "whatever moments we like" to even observe candidate Palin - once the party gag was hastily imposed following the Couric debacle!
So this - the prank call, and her regrettable extended skits on SNL became more significant, perhaps, than they might have.
Yeah, the link was a hoot!
Jody Tresidder at July 6, 2009 2:28 PM
Very mature, Crid. I simply responded to your assertion that some tragedy from my past propelled me to such an "emotional" response. No tragedy and certainly no soap opera. I admitted that my opinion wasn't based on pure fact and offered up an explanation from real life experience which we all have. I was engaging in a spirited discussion and respected the fact that you wanted an answer that was more thought out. I even made some positive comments regarding Palin and explained once again why I felt the way that I did. This was an internet discussion not my college thesis and one I entered with a respect for different perspectives. I'm sorry to disappoint you with my soap opera tactics. And since you want such accurate facts, there's no Nikki or Dr. Rexler on GH.
Kristen at July 6, 2009 2:46 PM
> we had remarkably fewer than
> usual "whatever moments we like"
You may live to be ten thousand years old, Jody... But you will never, ever convince me that you jus' can't get enough o' that Sarah Palin.
And again, though I worded it horribly, I think most Dems and other irrational Palin-haters picked their path around her at first whiff. That anyone new to public life would have some stumbles is irrelevant... They already hated her and were going to continue to hate her.
And I think they ARE going to continue to hate her, and I hope they have that opportunity to hate her for a very long time. Well, seventy five messages into this thread and ten months into her fame, it's apparent that no one has the awareness to go that extra mile and present a meaningful insight about what Palin means to people... Or at least, it's apparent that those who could put it into a sentence don't care enough to type it out for a blog like this.
But, like, wutevar. Displays like Cheezie's are, for all their wretchedness, amusing psychological exposés. She bugs the people who ought to be bugged, and stings them in the ego, so that's plenty good enough. I'm on the hook for a grand with no regret.
> Very mature, Crid.
Nobody said I was mature, I'm just getting old.
> there's no Nikki or Dr. Rexler on GH.
But Samms' breasts are real! Guys used to tell their best jokes, hoping she'd heave with laughter.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 2:59 PM
Thanks for taking my "flyover country" bait, Crid. You're predictably trollable about some things.
Yep, I think education is very important, particularly in the U.S., where the economy is increasingly based upon the ability to move bits of information. Not going to apologize about that. While getting a good education does not guarantee success or happiness in life by any means, it certainly raises the odds that one will be able to earn a good living. Alternatively, I think that becoming a skilled tradesman - carpenter, plumber, electrician, mechanic - is a great route. All of those jobs pay well and are really hard to outsource. But you can't be dumb and be good at any of those things, either. Brains aren't the only thing, but they're a big help (honesty and discipline are the other two key pieces).
I have nothing against those who aren't college educated; but I think that people who aspire to high levels of our government need to have some real knowledge of the law, history, economics and strong analytical abilities. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to be a successful politician. In fact a lot of the brightest tend to get themselves into trouble (see Clinton and Gingrich). Know-nothings like Palin have no business getting anywhere near national office.
I'm also not going to apologize about my contempt for Sarah Palin. What I've read suggests she's a prima donna, vindictive, dishonest and a failure as a parent. She's also a nutty fundamentalist from a church where people speak in tongues. She accepted the VP nomination totally unprepared for the job, knowing next to nothing outside of what happens in Alaska (which basically is a law unto itself). I have no idea if she's dumb or not (I lean toward dumb because of her tendency to degenerate into word salad when she's stumped).
But hey, if the Republicans like her, they should nominate her. Then double down on the Veep slot with batshit crazy Michelle Bachman. The rallies will be great! Know-nothings rise again.
Cheezburg at July 6, 2009 3:59 PM
> my "flyover country" bait
Yeah, people here have been doing that a lot lately. "Just kidding!...."
> a prima donna, vindictive, dishonest
> and a failure as a parent
Well, mmmeeeeee-yow! That hatred is so tart, so personal, and so strong that we're back to where we started: It's all about the interior lives of the haters. And they're not really talking... But we're expected to care anyway.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 4:08 PM
Kristen - Your response is Exhibit A in my case for the repeal of the 19th Amendment. The vast majority of women can be counted upon to vote against their best interests if an emotional appeal can be properly waged.
Cheezburg - Your response is pretty much the same for the repeal of Universal Franchise. That you based your decision on falsehoods and continue to justify your hatred of Sarah Palin on said falsehoods proves that you are not nearly the intellectual heavyweight you imagine yourself to be.
Several people I know said they could not vote for McCain because of Palin. I asked them why. Among the responses I got were:
The first two of those were outright falsehoods perpetuated by her political enemies.
The last one was a false attribution of a line used by a comedian satirizing Palin in a sketch.
When I told these people (and proved to them) that they had made their decision based upon lies, they adamantly refused to change their position, falling back on "she just rubs me the wrong way."
Which is code for "A hot chick has no business being intelligent."
brian at July 6, 2009 4:31 PM
Of course, Reynolds is doing a better job of this today, linking Douthat:
| In this sense, she really is the perfect
| foil for Barack Obama. Our president
| represents the meritocratic ideal — that
| anyone, from any background, can grow up
| to attend Columbia and Harvard Law School
| and become a great American success story.
| But Sarah Palin represents the democratic
| ideal — that anyone can grow up to be a
| great success story without graduating from
| Columbia and Harvard. . . .
Cheezy adores that word, "meritocratic", because he gets to imagine that it means he was righteously awarded the goods. "Hey guys, it's not my fault that I sit at the center of God's creation... It's just merit!"
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 4:51 PM
It's all about the interior lives of the haters.
Huh? My disdain is about her being low class, poorly educated, and doing nothing to solve those deficiencies.
Your response is pretty much the same for the repeal of Universal Franchise.
huh?
That you based your decision on falsehoods and continue to justify your hatred of Sarah Palin on said falsehoods proves that you are not nearly the intellectual heavyweight you imagine yourself to be.
Data will be forthcoming, fear not. I gotta actually, you know, work some here, too.
Cheezburg at July 6, 2009 4:55 PM
> being low class
Class! Like an old Sinatra movie! "She's a real classy broad..."
Class! I love that. Have you met Jody? She's fascinated with class as well....
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 5:16 PM
So, Cheez, because I didn't go to an Ivy League school and my parents are solidly blue-collar, am I low class too?
I can tell you that my grade and high-school peers certainly thought my parentage made me so.
It's such a shame that I've outdone every one of them.
brian at July 6, 2009 5:20 PM
Whoops. Sorry. Here: Jody talks class.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 5:24 PM
>>Whoops. Sorry. Here: Jody talks class.
Man, that thread was fun.
Thanks, Crid.
Jody Tresidder at July 6, 2009 5:49 PM
Don't be patient, it fucks up my concentration
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 7:59 PM
For the record, Brian, I know many hot chicks that also happen to be very intelligent. In fact, the majority of hot women I know are smart cookies as well. Sarah Palin is a hot chick and I never said she was stupid. And as much as I've enjoyed this conversation, I feel I have nothing left to contribute. I've said what I've needed to say and thanks to Crid, I've reflected on why I feel the way that I do, and overall, I'm satisfied with myself. Nitey nite!
Kristen at July 6, 2009 8:17 PM
Big ol' post here cause now I has links.
Class! Like an old Sinatra movie! "She's a real classy broad...",
Yep, class. You know behaving with honor, decency, dignity. Like, when a donor offers to help you improve your wardrobe for an election, you don't run off on an eye-poppingly large shopping spree, not just for you, but for your entire family. Apparently the donor was appalled.
Link (to avoid spam filter, links modified so you'll need to do some find&replace to make work):
www|talkingpointsmemo|com/archives/243121|php
Class. Like not taking calendar photos of yourself wrapped in the flag (a flag handling no-no)...Like not using your Down Syndrome baby as a political prop... Like not airing your dispute with the father of your grandchild in public... like not having your grown up husband call himself the "First Dude".
So, Cheez, because I didn't go to an Ivy League school and my parents are solidly blue-collar, am I low class too?
Nope, in the U.S., class is much more about how you act and carry yourself than who your parents were.
__
OK, Crid claims all of this is personal. It's not entirely untrue; I do have an instinctive dislike for this woman. I disliked her the moment I first heard her speak. But everybody has people who just annoy them from the get go (others who fall into that list for me - George W Bush, Sean Hannity, Tom Cruise, Garrison Keillor, Sasha Vujacic...). Palin goes beyond that, but she had to earn it.
Since then, lots of what I have learned about her makes me feel she is unfit for office.
Crazy religious people are bad, m'kay.
She is a fundamentalist from a particularly crazy fundamentalist church. Fundamentalists are too rigid in their thinking, too certain they are right, and too caught up in thinking about the "end times". Don't trust them with the button. They speak in tongues. They did a ritual on her to protect her from witchcraft. Are you kidding me?
www.dailymotion|com/video/x702oi_sarah-palin-exorcism-ritual_shortfilms
She lies, stupidly
Palin's disregard for the truth is pretty legendary. She lies all the time, even when there's no great motivation to do so.
Andrew Sullivan does hate her, but lots of the articles linked here support his claims:
andrewsullivan|theatlantic|com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/the-twelve-odd|html
She doesn't do her homework.
The incredible shallowness of her knowledge on the campaign trail, especially in that Couric interview staggered me. How can any serious candidate for national office be unable to come up with any Supreme Court case other than Roe? She sure sounded like her news consumption was limited to Alaska papers.
Probably every regular commentator here gets their news from lots of sources, and could explain where. You guys would all probably be able to pull pretty good responses to any of the questions that stumped Palin.
www|youtube|com/watch?v=Cn9WduykYpA
She'd been on the campaign trail for a while. She should have been able to at least fake that interview. It's not like Couric is a tough interview. It's not like she had Chris Matthews getting all in her face. Couric's a softie.
Now, I could be wrong, but that interview clearly indicated the Palin neither made a habit of reading the news or had been busting her ass catching up.
She abused her power
Troopergate, where she was found to have abused her power.
democrats|com/pinocchio-palin-lies-about-troopergate-ethics-violations
Prima donna
Pushing, against McCain's wishes for a speaking spot in the concession speech (Veep candidates don't talk there)
www|vanityfair|com/politics/features/2009/08/sarah-palin200908?currentPage=3
Please note, I was being selective. There is so much more on any of these or a bunch of other points.
___
Ya'll can think this is all a liberal media conspiracy. But the evidence is really clear. This woman, charismatic though she may be, has real problems; her life and her behavior reveal weird character problems. It's not all irrational, weird anti-Republican-flavor-of-the-month madness.
Cheezburg at July 6, 2009 8:34 PM
Cheez - you are wrong on so many things, but I think I know why.
First, you take the media seriously. You don't know whether or not the Couric interview was edited to make Palin look bad. Nobody knows.
You cannot use a gynophobic fabulist (that would be Sullivan) as a source and be considered reasonable.
Palin was NOT found to have abused her authority in "Troopergate".
And if she's got such a legendary disregard for truth, how come nobody but the Democrats know about it? Projection isn't a river in Egypt.
Look, I said I know why you have the problems you do. Other than Sasha (whom I have never heard, nor heard of), all the people you can't stand have one thing in common - they speak with a midwestern twang. Which pegs you as the most disgusting form of coastal elitist.
And mental faculties you have flow through that filter first. But, being an intellectual, you need to find justifications for your hatred. And here comes Andrew Sullivan and the Democrats with pre-packaged talking points for you to valiantly spew.
Well, let me tell you something, friend. The reason that Palin is resigning is the same as the reason Newt had to resign. It's not that the ethics charges have merit -- they don't. It's not that she's unethical -- she isn't.
It's that the Democrats and their megalomaniacal pursuit of power must destroy anyone who threatens to dismantle their rent-seeking, influence-peddling, and freedom-crushing agenda.
And because of the extended tantrums of the Democratic leadership in Alaska, she is spending all of her time (and a bunch of money, her's and the taxpayers') defending herself from these false accusations. The end result being that she cannot do the job she was elected to do.
By resigning and passing control to her lieutenant (who shares her values), she buys some time to get something positive done for Alaska while the Democrats scramble to find a new attack vector.
The unfortunate result of the Newt debacle is that the Republicans learned not to try to dismantle the fascist state if they wanted to remain politically viable. Bonior and Gephardt should have spent the remainder of their lives in prison for the 73 fraudulent ethics investigations they foisted on this nation, and the millions of dollars they wasted in their single-minded pursuit of raw power.
If this country is to have any hope at all of returning to its founding principles, the Democratic Party MUST be destroyed.
There are some ideas that are just not acceptable in a free society. They must be ridiculed and shown to be without merit such that they are not seriously discussed in polite company.
brian at July 6, 2009 8:57 PM
> I do have an instinctive dislike
My fondest hope is to see your instincts mocked every single day. These sins are trivialities; comparing them to the corruption, bogus Catholicism and abject death surrounding a wealthy and beloved Democratic figure like Ted Kennedy betrays the rot of your instinct. This is not about Sarah Palin... It's all about you.
Liberals are like that.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 9:26 PM
beloved Democratic figure like Ted Kennedy betrays the rot of your instinct.
The fact that you think I give a damn about that dying, damned, faded echo of the exaggerated memories of his brothers makes it clear that you simply do not actually read what I write, but rather apply a single label, "liberal", and then apply your assumptions to what I must be saying.
It's all about you.
Nope. I made my points for why there are real problems with Palin that are not connected to my feelings. I used links, none of which any of you have offered any evidence to refute.
There are plenty of rational reasons, backed by data, to indicate why she has a problem. But here's the thing: I hope that the Republican party does run with this cipher. Go for it.
Cheezburg at July 6, 2009 9:54 PM
You cannot use a gynophobic fabulist (that would be Sullivan) as a source and be considered reasonable.
I think his crazy obsession about her recent pregnancy was ludicrous. But in this case I'm only using him for his links; he's got the best collection of her lies.
Cheezburg at July 6, 2009 10:04 PM
Palin was NOT found to have abused her authority in "Troopergate".
She most certainly was!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/palin-repimanded-over-abuse-of-power-as-alaska-governor-958120.html
Cheezburg at July 6, 2009 10:07 PM
First, you take the media seriously. You don't know whether or not the Couric interview was edited to make Palin look bad. Nobody knows.
Crid, you work in this biz. Any insights to share? Could editors create do that if she knew her shit?
Cheezburg at July 6, 2009 10:24 PM
Other than Sasha (whom I have never heard, nor heard of)
He plays for the Lakers. Wears this really girly headband thing. European player - good jump shot, falls down a lot.
they speak with a midwestern twang. Which pegs you as the most disgusting form of coastal elitist.
No, they all feel like phonies to me. Garrison Keillor would like everyone to think he's this nice charming ironic dude. But to me he sounds like a douche who always gets what he wants. Cruise really wants us to think he's straight - I have no idea whether he is or not - but he really seems to care.
etc.
Cheezburg at July 6, 2009 10:49 PM
Cheez. She was not, it was later dismissed.
Dude, did you read the document? I did. The entire thing...I didn't leave it up to some pimple faced little hack in the media to do it for me.
She was essentially accused of not controlling her husband when he was calling people in the department to check on Wooton's (the State Trooper's/Brother-in-law's) employment status was (his boss was acting unethically by not firing that asshole)...on account of Whooton threatening to KILL Palin's family members. How the fuck can you control someone else is beyond me.
Just think about this...If she were NOT Gov. and her husband or her was calling on the employment status of a deranged lunatic threatening to kill her family...would there be any question about this? The filing of this complaint is just about the most politically motivated pile of smelling cow dung I've seen in a LONG time. Your persecution of this woman is bordering on deranged.
What part of *all* 15 ethics complaints being filed and dismissed did you not understand?
When did she lie? Nothing you provided proved any lies on her part.
Seriously, you are about as unhinged as they come. And you think Andrew Sullivan was a crazy loon for the pregnancy conspiracy, yet you still cite him as your source?
Concession speech. Uh, didn't Edwards give his own five minute concession speech after Kerry after they lost the 2004?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/2004-11-03-kery-concedes_x.htm
"Introduced by Edwards, who made his own five-minute concession speech, ..."
You wanna bust her chops for not being able to cite some random court case besides Roe v. Wade, be my guest (which is completely absurd, AND YOU KNOW IT). BUT- BUT -BUT then you have to apply an equal argument to the knuckle dragger NOW serving as VP with HIS response to a Couric question:
"When the stock market crashed, Franklin Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the princes of greed," Biden told Couric. "He said, 'Look, here's what happened.'"
Got on the TV there, eh, Joe? (psst, Cheezers, no TV in 1932). And Couric, the Left's epitome of intelligence (chortle) didn't catch it either.
The wardrobe was purchased FOR her (you really think she had time for a fucking spree in the middle of a campaign?) by the RNC. That's not her bad, that was the RNC's bad, they didn't like the way she dressed. AND ALL THE FUCKING CLOTHES WERE RETURNED (unlike the silver the Clinton's boosted from the white house, ya Know!) Do you think the Obama's had their outfits purchased for them? Or was that just the small piece of their yard?
I guess what really sticks under my craw the MOST with this shit, is that you, Cheez, along with your fellow psychotic cohorts can point your skinny, ugly, finger out at Palin and NEVER EVER do the same for your own side. And that just SUCKS.
Biden is NO boy genius. I find it VERY hard to fathom a world (other than this one) where she would not be considered equally if not more competent than Joe The Dumber Biden.
Feebie at July 6, 2009 10:50 PM
Refute, with links. Thanks. Otherwise, I don't give a fuck.
Please understand. I am not a big Democrat, nor a big liberal. I would like to find someone to match the domestic priorities of Bill Clinton with the foreign policy of GHW Bush. I think Obama's team members have exhibited rank cowardice on nearly every important issues, and am not sure if I'd vote for them again in most circumstances.
But I do think Sarah Palin might actually be crazy. And I don't want that anywhere near the levers of real power. I'm fine with a Republican president. I just want a sane one.
Cheezburg at July 6, 2009 11:06 PM
Cheez. I included quotes with my links.
And I don't give a Fuck what party you align yourself with, it is not the point (another swing and a miss ladies and gentleman)!
It's your faulty reasoning, poor research, conceit and down right blatant disparities applied to your arguments! They are so ridiculously SUBPAR that I find it laughable you espouse excellence in education and people being polished speakers while producing such crap-ass posts.
Cheez, tell me YOU didn't go to HA-VHAD?
Feebie at July 6, 2009 11:17 PM
...(((pecker-head))))...
Feebie at July 6, 2009 11:18 PM
> plenty of rational reasons, backed by data,
Ooooooooh! You sounded just like Amy Alkon there for a minute! Gary Taubes with a waist-to-hip ratio! What does your dog look like? Where do you vacation?
> I made my points for why there
> are real problems with Palin that
> are not connected to my feelings
"Instinctive response" = "feelings". Your responses are suspiciously disproportionate. And even if you're right about those things or a few other sins you didn't bother to list (and you're not, we're being rhetorical here):
My complaint, as waged at the top o' this flapjack stack, is with the many reflexive, isolated, NPR-adoring lefty ninnies whose minds are so closed that they can't see and admire the many miracles apparent in this woman's life... Lefties who are so shallow in their thinking and solipsistic in their perception of political and social reality that they can imagine no shared culture with a person who differs with them on a political issue.
One of the oldest saws in politics is that liberals think conservatives are evil while conservatives think liberals are naive. So I may not be scratching any new insights with this, but it is certainly true that I think the Palin-haters under discussion are being childish. They're afraid of her because she's attractive. They're afraid of her because a working woman like that might change their minds about a few things... And if that happened, there'd be hell to pay!... They'd be exposed as not having thought things through completely the first time. It would be humbling.
That's why I want to aggravate the barbed-comment Palin-haters. (And that includes Hitchens; Paglia, bless her heart, recognizes at least some of Sarah's superpowers). Their small-mindedness dishonors the proud, challenging liberal tradition by which I have been a registered Democrat my whole life.
But I'm still going to do something with a thousand dollars for Sarah Palin.
> Could editors create do that
Editors can do miraculous things, and I've seen sophisticated men –viewers, not just interviewees– faked out of their shoes by the most basic technique.
But the Couric interview was indisputably one of the weakest moments in national political performance of this decade.
(And competition is fierce:
• Condit!
• Wide-stance boy in the airport!
• The Rather memos!
• Spitzer and all the other sex bunglers!
• That time the Vice President of the United States shot that man in the face.
This is off the top of my head. If I've forgotten some favorite atrocity, don't take it personally.)
Palin will be remembered for that interview, and perhaps she deserves to be. (Couric not so much, because the media side of an encounter like that is all about machinery and editors and producers etc.) Sarah was a big girl, and she should have been ready. If she wasn't, she should have hired people to protect her. (Does anyone remember the time Bush41 turned out Rather's lights during an interview?)
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 6, 2009 11:20 PM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/07/03/shrewd_move_on.html#comment-1657357">comment from Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com](Does anyone remember the time Bush41 turned out Rather's lights during an interview?)
Love that sort of thing. Marlon Brando kissed Larry King.
Amy Alkon at July 7, 2009 12:37 AM
>>it is certainly true that I think the Palin-haters under discussion are being childish. They're afraid of her because she's attractive. They're afraid of her because a working woman like that might change their minds about a few things... And if that happened, there'd be hell to pay!... They'd be exposed as not having thought things through completely the first time. It would be humbling.
Whoooosh!
And that, Crid, is the sound of every point you just made there flying right past me.
Not a single one of them even remotely applies.
It seems to me you're the one thrumming like an Aeolian harp to the mysterious force of Palin's persona.
She's got you, babe!
Jody Tresidder at July 7, 2009 5:51 AM
> Not a single one of them
> even remotely applies
Oh, Golly, Jody... You promise?
She just makes your skin crawl, right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight....
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 7, 2009 6:38 AM
Have I mentioned this tune yet? OK, fine. Reminds me of Michagan Ave, Chicago. Dunno why
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 7, 2009 6:48 AM
>>She just makes your skin crawl, right? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight....
Meanwhile, Crid, she makes your heart go...Boom Diddy, Boom Diddy, Boom Diddy, Boom Diddy, Boom Diddy, Boom Diddy, Boom Boom BOOM. Boom Diddy, Boom Diddy, Boom Diddy Boom...:)
Jody Tresidder at July 7, 2009 7:02 AM
Well, she's probably prettier in the morning than Barney Frank, if that's what you mean. A moderate beauty aging well: You wanna pretend the effect she has on people is all about Cherokee* cheekbones, go ahead. Let us know how that works out, too.
* Wuddever
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 7, 2009 7:11 AM
>>Well, she's probably prettier in the morning than Barney Frank, if that's what you mean.
You what, Crid?
The "boom diddy" refrain is from a Peter Sellers/Sophia Loren comedy duet:
"The song is a piece of non politically correct nonsense that does not even feature in the film it was intended to promote, yet 'Goodness Gracious Me', recorded by Peter Sellers and Sophia Loren at London's Abbey Road Studios in 1960, is still played and loved all over the world."
http://tinyurl.com/lc2fkr
Jody Tresidder at July 7, 2009 7:37 AM
Feebie, you're a bit too frothy and incoherent to respond to. Sorry.
Cheezburg at July 7, 2009 7:47 AM
They're afraid of her because she's attractive. They're afraid of her because a working woman like that might change their minds about a few things.
Miss! It's the whole charismatic demagogue thing that troubles me. There's incredible power in her ability to tap into people's anger and resentment; I think that she is far too ignorant, religious, and mendacious for things to go well if she gets it.
Cheezburg at July 7, 2009 7:52 AM
> Miss!
That's what Jody said, too. 'Who, moi?'
> There's incredible power in her
> ability to tap into people's anger
> and resentment;
Aside from being seventh-grader's psychology, this is just condescending frogwash. ("People's" Anger! "People's" resentment!) Again, you worry too much on behalf of the little folks, Cheesy. They can take care of themselves. All they ask of you is that you get your own perspective in order. This will help you stay out of their way.
> Peter Sellers/Sophia Loren
> comedy duet:
I hate musicals! Every heterosexual born after about 1955 should.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 7, 2009 8:15 AM
And let me just say this —
When I was a little kid and family seniors would put on records like Oklahoma! or Music Man, everything seemed so white. And so scripted. The Beatles made scripted movies too... But they were real live guys! We went to the movies to try to see what their real lives were like, not the other way 'round. And the Beatles were getting stuh-raaange... Rock n' roll was full of acts who were, in a nod to jazz (the only truely American art form), doing improvisatory stuff. Even when they did it badly , it was pretty cool. And then the Beatles got stranger. A lot of rock n roll was horribly stupid, but at least it was (for a few years there) sincere... Broadway was bogus from start to finish.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 7, 2009 8:49 AM
Amy Alkon
http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/2009/07/03/shrewd_move_on.html#comment-1657422">comment from Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com]family seniors would put on records like Oklahoma! or Music Man,
Julie Andrews does have very nice breasts. (See horrible movie S.O.B.'s. Apparently, Blake Edwards thought it would help rescue her from musicaldom.)
Amy Alkon at July 7, 2009 8:59 AM
No! No! We've covered this!
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 7, 2009 9:01 AM
Cheezburg:
No, you don't. You feel those things. Your inability to be swayed from those positions by truth (which is why I have not bothered linking to the many takedowns of the falsehoods you spew) proves it.
After all, one cannot be reasoned out of a position one was not reasoned in to.
brian at July 7, 2009 9:11 AM
>>When I was a little kid and family seniors would put on records like Oklahoma! or Music Man, everything seemed so white. And so scripted.
Seriously, Crid. I've never heard you say that before - that you were sensitive to skin color issues from a very young age. (I've read somewhere this awareness typically comes at around 7-8 years - which, from observation, I've found reasonably accurate).
Jody Tresidder at July 7, 2009 9:22 AM
Again, you worry too much on behalf of the little folks, Cheesy.
The point isn't to look out for the little people. It's to ensure that her brand is sufficiently damaged that she cannot appeal beyond her base of god-bothering know-nothings.
Why, besides the fact that she is cute, she appeals to you(neither a god botherer or a know-nothing) is beyond me, though.
No, you don't. You feel those things.
No dude. I've seen clips of her church services. I've watched her be unable to answer simple questions. Etc.
Cheezburg at July 7, 2009 9:23 AM
Now Sarah's looking forward to being in the White House where the "department of law" will protect her from ethics charges. (She was hit with a new one yesterday, for bilking the state of Alaska a per diem for staying in her own house.)
Crid, how much of a boner would you have for this dishonest, self-serving know-nothing if she were a Democrat?
franko at July 7, 2009 9:48 AM
I don't personally know any liberals who hate Sarah Palin -- she's too inconsequential to be anything more than political comic relief. Having quit halfway through her one term as governor, I doubt she'll ever hold another elected position outside of Alaska. But if Republicans want her to be the mascot for their party, be our guest.
I think Atrios sums it up well. We're not angry, we're laughing.
franko at July 7, 2009 9:59 AM
Actually, franko and Cheezburg, you (as a group, and probably as individuals) are retarded.
Every ethics charge brought against her has been found to be without merit. But due to the nature of the system, there is no disincentive against bringing false charges.
What I find amusing is how everything you claim disqualifies Sarah Palin from holding higher office (whether true or not) actually applies to The One.
Barack Obama is crooked, stupid, tied to people of questionable moral standing, tied to criminals, unable to answer questions, unable to tell the truth, unable to hold to any promise he makes, and engaged in the pursuit of unlimited power.
In short, the Democrats and Leftists (but I repeat myself) are committing the same exact projection they have been engaged in for the past decade.
brian at July 7, 2009 10:05 AM
>>Every ethics charge brought against her has been found to be without merit.
Brian,
Refute the following then.
(This is a comment from Metafilter, based on an Anchorage Daily News report, summarized on HuffPo).
"In February, Palin was required to pay back income taxes on thousands of dollars in expense money she received while living at her home overlooking Lake Lucille in Wasilla. Little more than two weeks ago she was forced to pay back the State of Alaska more than $8,100.00 for nine trips taken by her children that she had improperly charged as being part of official state business.
These two ethics violations were determined to be legitimate claims against her and not just frivolous ethics violation accusations. She was actually required to pay the money back. It now looks like she may have to pay back the per diems she got while working from home, as well. If so, that will be three separate ethics violations claims against her that have been found to have merit."
Source of metafilter quote: http://tinyurl.com/mq88r6
Jody Tresidder at July 7, 2009 10:28 AM
"report, summarized on HuffPo)"
The same HuffPost that sent a farewell post to Palin reading:
"Palin will Run in '12 on More Retardation Platform"....That HuffPost?
Oh, no, their summary couldn't be the slightest bit dodgy, Jody...
Did you know that the review of the back taxes was brought up by the Gov herself?
"These issues were raised during the national campaign and as result of the national campaign *the governor asked us to look into this*," Kreitzer said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29274669/
She asked them to look into this…ya, she’s such a complete criminal.
Just wondering how much the State saved not having Palin and her family take up formal residence in the Gov. Mansion? The Mansion came with extra staff I am sure, heating, cleaning…a chef.
Really, Really can't believe posters are using the HuffPost and Andrew Sullivan to "prove" Palin to be this unethical human.
Look, you don't like her, that's fine. It's okay. We won't cry. But these over zealous attempts to pin Palin as an unethical liar are so far removed from reality, it looks, well, kinda desperate.
Feebie at July 7, 2009 11:52 AM
"The point isn't to look out for the little people. It's to ensure that her brand is sufficiently damaged that she cannot appeal beyond her base of god-bothering know-nothings."
oh thank goodness! Cheez will save us ignorants from the evil, evil Sarah! We're too stupid to know as well as he, you know.
momof4 at July 7, 2009 12:17 PM
Momofwhatever, you clearly don't read carefully (a common problem). I'm not out to persuade the palin-loving god botherers like you. I am interested in making sure that sane people who haven't drunk the palinade know what an ignorant, low class, fundamentalist whack job she is.
Cheezburg at July 7, 2009 12:36 PM
> never heard you say that before -
> that you were sensitive to skin
> color issues
Not sensitive to skin color, sensitive to worthwhile entertainment. "Mother, why are these Disney movies so fucking dull? The Jackson 5 are on Sullivan tonight... Can we watch that instead?"
(The memory of exact wordings may not precisely reflect how this all went down... And it may have been some other silly pop group and not the Jacksons.)
(Two things to hate about Julie Andrews: How she looks, and how she sounds. Other than that, she's a brilliant entertainer....)
> her base of god-bothering
> know-nothings.
Ta-da! There is it again! I'd call it fascism, but it's really just a solipsistic faith in your own magnificent brainage, and a wholly unnecessary distance-making from people who will never trust your judgment anyway.
> Why, besides the fact that she
> is cute, she appeals to you
[A] We share many values, including the execution of human responsibilities (both familial and economic) which she's handled well and I've bungled. [B] (Again) There's no finer exemplar of feminist achievement in American political life.
> I've watched her be unable
> to answer simple questions.
Your awkward wording is ironic, since that's exactly the sin for which you'd belittle her.
> how much of a boner would you
> have for this dishonest, self-
> serving know-nothing if she were
> a Democrat?
A Democrat with her values, achievements and experience? A stiffy indeed.
> she's too inconsequential
Whistling in the dark.
> based on an Anchorage Daily
> News report
Word came early that this newspaper had always had a bug up its ass about her, and that their judgment was not to be trusted. A newspaper is a guy with Microsoft Word, y'know.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 7, 2009 12:46 PM
> what an ignorant, low class,
> fundamentalist whack job she is.
Gosh... That's a lot of energy for a guy who's all about dispassionate policy. Rational! Backed by data!
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 7, 2009 12:49 PM
That's a lot of energy for a guy who's all about dispassionate policy. Rational! Backed by data!
I know; it's hard to find anyone that people like so much who is so fucked up. But there it is.
a wholly unnecessary distance-making from people who will never trust your judgment anyway.
Yeah, they pretty much just trust their preachers and whoever spouts the right mix of scripture and platitudes.
responsibilities (both familial and economic) which she's handled well
Yeah, her family looks great! No problems there - a model for all to follow!
Your awkward wording is ironic, since that's exactly the sin for which you'd belittle her.
Huh? I belittle her because I've never seen her make it through an interview without at least one episode where her response to a question didn't degenerate into word salad. (except maybe that funny one on Fox where they gave her "do-over" questions from the Couric interview so that she could give canned responses to please the Republican base)
Cheezburg at July 7, 2009 1:14 PM
Crid, thanks for that link above. I didn't realize Paglia was so smitten. But this quotation is priceless:
LOL
Cheezburg at July 7, 2009 1:30 PM
Well, 52% of the voting public seemed to like a racist, sexist, homophobic, isolationist fascist just fine last November.
I think that counts as more than the 46% that went for McCain/Palin, don't you?
If they tried to make a drinking game out of Obama's uh's, every package store in America would be empty.
Face it - you hate Palin because she's everything your guy ain't. But it's not politically acceptable to hate on a liberal black man, so the conservative white chick gets smacked around.
brian at July 7, 2009 2:50 PM
>>Oh, no, their summary couldn't be the slightest bit dodgy, Jody...
Feebie,
In fact, you are right & my info was wrong.
Another Metafilter commenting has since pointed out the flaw in the original summary of ethics violations.
In fact: "The $8100 was a voluntary reimbursement after an ethics investigation found that there was 'no wrongdoing.' This wasn't an ethics violation, and in fact the investigation found that Palin 'followed historical practices on first family travel and that her travel requests were processed by the same administrators who processed requests for predecessors, Frank Murkowski and Tony Knowles."
Ironically the HuffPo piece linked was correct, but the interpretative was flawed.
Glad to add this retraction.
Jody Tresidder at July 7, 2009 2:55 PM
Darn, that is to say "the interpretation of it was flawed".
Jody Tresidder at July 7, 2009 2:58 PM
Jody. Really honorable. For real.
;)
Feebz
Feebie at July 7, 2009 3:15 PM
The prosecution rests.
Cheezburg at July 7, 2009 3:35 PM
cf. Joe Biden:
"I've got three letters for you: J-O-B-S"
"Franklin Roosevelt got on TV"
etc.
brian at July 7, 2009 3:51 PM
Cheez.
Where did you get this quote? For all we know, you typed it out yourself.
I honestly believe if she wants to continue her way up in politics, that she will need to become a more effective communicator. This is a LEARNED skill, and certainly not out of reach for Palin.
I think her manner of communication is sincere and endearing, however, it is starting to loose its "freshness" and if she wants to play with the big boys, she needs to work towards taking it to the next level.
But that does not mean, that she is stupid, uneducated, low-class or any of the other cheap shots you are throwing at her.
She CAN learn this skill, and find a way to keep her honest, small-town, charismatic personality. There is NO doubt in my mind. She has the time to do that now.
I wish her the best.
Feebie at July 7, 2009 3:56 PM
A "LOL" and a "prosecution" in one afternoon? For merely a clumsy public appearance? You're selling it pretty hard, aren'cha?
See also: "I did not have sex with that woman..."
I will always, always wonder why Joe Biden was selected to be president of the United States.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 7, 2009 3:56 PM
Here, Cheeze. Perfect article for ya.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDE3MmE5MDVmMGM1YjQ2NmVhMjJkN2I2ZTcxMzhlNjU=&w=MA==
Feebie at July 7, 2009 4:10 PM
Thanks for being gallant about my screw up, Feebz.
Jody Tresidder at July 7, 2009 4:10 PM
VICE president. You knew who I meant.
> Perfect article for ya.
Did I say a grand? Let's make it twelve hunnerd. What a little more work to a grateful American?
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 7, 2009 4:42 PM
And is this anyone else's first encounter with the phrase "gang aft agley"?
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 7, 2009 4:43 PM
gang aft agley
It's the conclusion of the "best laid plans of mice and men" quote (I think).
kishke at July 7, 2009 4:51 PM
Here, Cheeze. Perfect article for ya.
Hmm, resentment and projection from the increasingly unhinged National Review. I'm shocked, I tell ya.
A "LOL" and a "prosecution" in one afternoon? For merely a clumsy public appearance? You're selling it pretty hard, aren'cha?
I'm having fun tweaking the Palin-lovers. Duh.
I will always, always wonder why Joe Biden was selected to be president of the United States
Cause he'll never compete with Obama for the spotlight, knows a lot about foreign policy, and is well liked in the Senate and might help Obama's agenda there. E.g., I heard he was part of the group who flipped Arlen Specter.
Cheezburg at July 7, 2009 7:00 PM
Where did you get this quote? For all we know, you typed it out yourself.
It's from the Couric interview. Thanks to YouTube, it will be the gift that keeps on giving for as long as she is in the spotlight :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUMUASwaec
Cheezburg at July 7, 2009 7:05 PM
Cheeze. I don't keep resentments, they cause wrinkles. (Grinz)
"E.g., I heard he was part of the group who flipped Arlen Specter."
Well, Cheez, then you can thank his His Superfulous Excellency since doing that gives the Republicans an advantage, the ability to filibuster judicial nominees at the Judiciary Committee level, so the nominees never get out of committee.
http://www.dorfonlaw.org/2009/04/how-specters-defection-could-make-it.html
And I quote: "Does Arlen Specter's defection from R to D strengthen the President's hand in Congress? Perhaps overall but not on judicial appointments because breaking (the equivalent of) a filibuster in the Senate Judiciary Committee requires the consent of at least one member of the minority. Before today, Specter was likely to be that one Republican." - Michael Dorf, Cornell Law Professor.
SENATE JUDICIARY RULE:
IV. BRINGING A MATTER TO A VOTE
The Chairman shall entertain a non-debatable motion to bring a matter before the Committee to a vote. If there is objection to bring the matter to a vote without further debate, a roll call vote of the Committee shall be taken, ***and debate shall be terminated if the motion to bring the matter to a vote without further debate passes with ten votes in the affirmative, one of which must be cast by the minority***.
Thanks Slow Joe!!! I'm not a Republican, but I just love these moments.
Feebie at July 7, 2009 9:22 PM
Judges are much more of a right wing issue, cause overturning Roe is one of the key carrots used to keep the Christian conservatives in line. They're not the priority for Obama. Healthcare is, and 60 votes is key for that.
Cheezburg at July 7, 2009 10:07 PM
Cheez. Since you were gloating about the VP's superior intellect and political saavy, I was pointing out his baffonery (since you made him seem all strategic ...and shit).
So, again, not the point.
Oh, I forgot, you are a fan of Health Fascism.
Feebie at July 7, 2009 10:19 PM
Which is kinda the same, since Obama wants the taxpayers to fund abortion-on-demand.
And anyone who thinks Roe is going to be overturned is high.
brian at July 8, 2009 5:24 AM
Feebz,
In pursuit of closure - or possibly boring myself to death on this topic! - I had another look at the monster Metafilter thread where I got my original "ethics violation" info, as well as the later correction.
This NOW seems to be the summary: "The travel ethics issue, in which she accepted culpability when she paid back the $8100 for her family's travel expenses...The investigation was dropped upon her paying these funds back so there was never a formal finding in that filing."
http://tinyurl.com/mbm9t4
Basically this pretty much confirms what you asserted - while explaining how Metafilter (which is leftie-leaning - but not blindly so) temporarily insisted - wrongly - that there was a violation in these circs.
So, Palin preempted a finger-wagging ruling BY paying back the potentially problem amount.
Small potatoes.
And zero points for my side - i.e hysterical liberal snobs in denial about Palin (as Crid would have it.)
Jody Tresidder at July 8, 2009 6:30 AM
Since you were gloating about the VP's superior intellect and political saavy, I was pointing out his baffonery (since you made him seem all strategic ...and shit).
If making one minor thing more difficult (judges) means you make one major thing easier (healthcare), that's good strategic thinking, not bad strategic thinking!
Oh, I forgot, you are a fan of Health Fascism.
LOL at your dramatitude. But yes, I want them to pass a health care bill that includes a public option.
Cheezburg at July 8, 2009 7:29 AM
In other words, you want them to pass a bill that steals from me to subsidise your irresponsible lifestyle, and then denies me coverage when I'm 65 because I'm too old and expensive to fix.
In other words, you want them to pass a bill that creates unlimited incentive for them to dictate the smallest details of my personal life in the name of "cost savings".
In other words, you want them to pass a bill that effectively takes control of one seventh of the economy.
In other words, you want them to pass a bill that will create a system that has never worked anywhere before.
Can you please explain to me why you ought to be allowed to vote?
brian at July 8, 2009 9:14 AM
A thumpin' new Paglia, just for Cheezy.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 8, 2009 11:17 AM
Can you please explain to me why you ought to be allowed to vote?
Cause I'm over 18 and a citizen of the U.S. who has never been convicted of a felony :)
A thumpin' new Paglia, just for Cheezy.
Yep, only a fangirl could characterize Palin's debate performance as "cleaning Biden's clock". If, by not answering the questions she was asked and winking at the camera are how you measure success, then I suppose she's right. I guess Paglia felt that little spark, too!
__
I think this dead horse has been beaten about as much as I'm inclined. If you guys want to put your money, rhetoric and votes behind that woman, I sure can't stop you. I think you're fools for doing so, but you're not unique.
Cheezburg at July 8, 2009 1:14 PM
> that you were sensitive to skin
> color issues
That may have been just a joke on Tressider's part... I can never tell anymore... but it's worth a rambling comment anyway, because it might flatter other people, and we all need to figure out how these things worked.
My grandfather was not a monstrous or violent guy; he took very seriously the Christian injunction to love one's fellows, and I never heard him speak a racist word, and certainly never heard him give offense to anyone. But according to lore (and only lore) he had some quiet ideas about race that most people reading this blog would find primitive.
Consider the milieu: The Klan ran the state in the early part of the 20th century. My mother recognizes faces from the famous photograph (though she knew them as seniors when she was a little girl).
Somehow, any appreciable ugliness stopped and stopped cold after my grandfather's generation. My parents taught us to treat people decently and respectfully with zero exceptions. A couple of times, I've asked my mother why.
And a few years ago, I started to care for (or supervise the care of) her sister. Long-bubbling Alzheimers boiled over suddenly: She was a tremendously bright woman, and it had taken everyone a long time to catch on to what was happening. But I had the honor of her last coherent conversations, and asked specifically how it was that she and her brother and her sister could be raised in that environment without any tinge of racism. Was it the churchgoing family's prayerfulness? Was it some product of teenage rebellion against the elder's beliefs? Was it a deliberate effort?
She gave the unsatisfying answer as her sister had: "The times were different."
———
PS- My fascination with Jackson may have been personal. We were the same age and from the same part of the state in similar poverty, and again (and for the last time, as the topic is finally+finally+finally buried), he was a tremendously talented child.
Crid [CommentCrid@gmail.com] at July 8, 2009 1:19 PM
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